Elmhurst extra audition date

[choccy]

We haven't heard anything either! Guess it will be Monday or Tuesday!

[Tinker]

No news today don't know how long I can wait its killing me has any one heard

[sparkledust]

One of the girls from dd's dance school heard today. A funded place for year 8. Exciting!

[Tinker]

Why don't they send all results out together so we all know together this is so cruel I guess it's a no if you haven't heard but its better to know

[Billyelliott]

Letter or email

[tutoo2much]

I get the impression Elmhurst make it up as they go along! And they aren't really accountable, so why not!

[JulieW]

With my moderator hat on for a mo, I think that was a little uncalled for. I'm sure they are doing their best for your children. I do empathise with how horrible it is to have to wait, and I agree that in an ideal world all the results would be sent out together, but there will be reasons behind it and sarcastic comments aren't helpful to anyone.

[Fab_feet]

I agree JulieW. We have had excellent comms from Elmhurst, but we received our yes via email and letter when others just received a letter. As difficult as it is waiting for a yes/no letter all of the schools have a very tough decision to make finding the right dancers for their schools. Also, as Elmhurst have very few places to fill it makes their decisions harder. I certainly don't think they make it up as they go along!!!! I hope everyone gets the outcome they hope for, it's a tough time all round.

[Billyelliott]

Patience is the name of the game.....waiting for results an occupational hazard of ballet mums the world over . If there is no news it's not a "no" yet and remember even a "no" is just a "not yet" .

One door closes so another can open .

Why would the school want to be cruel ?!

Each child must be considered and informed in turn . There is no reason to hold back sending information on a decision just so that everyone hears something at the same time . Each year would have to be considered separately ....it's not like getting exam results where you pass or fail , all those invited to auditioning have been lovely dancers and its a hard decision !

I quite agree - have had excellent communication so far with Elmhurst by letter and by email .

[Tinker]

I' have never questioned that Elmhurst don't do a good job I'm just very frustrated and wish I knew yes or no for my dc sorry if I offended any body when I wrote I wish they would send the results out all together. I will now not use the forum again I just liked to have some one to talk too when it's a lonely world when waiting when all you want is what your child wants

[Lildancer96]

I don't think anyone was questioning your post tinker - please do continue to use the forum for support and good luck for the results you are hoping for x

[Guest Autumn days]

I agree, I don't think that Julie's post was aimed at you, Tinker and believe that most people would share your frustration at the moment!

 

I also took totoo2muches post in the light hearted way that I am sure that it was meant!

[HAIRBELLES]

I was just about to post a similar comment Lil 

 

Tinker don't forget that this audition has been totally different from the norm and the results seem to be very quick compared to the usual format.

I agree waiting for that letter to drop through the door and the contents being the results you and your child are hoping for is hideous and doesn't seem to improve as time goes on.

We have all been there!! So don't stop posting as we are all here to support each other with advice and all our experiences.

Fingers crossed for your little ds and do let us know if he's succesful.

[Pas de Quatre]

Thinking logically, they don't want to send out a "no" or "wait list" letter and then offer a place a day or two later if someone offered a place doesn't sign up. I am sure they are simply working their way through the candidates in either a preference or year order.

[Friends]

Tinker don't let the forum give you sleepless nights. Look at the time of your post ?

I was character assassinated when I first joined the forum so I know how you feel.

Words are interpreted differently to how you meant them to sound.

I'm fed up reading the no now maybe a yes later but actually it's true.

Against the odds my dd was awarded a place at 6th vocational school after 2 rejections.

The forum can be very therapeutic and overall is positive but occasionally we will receive negative ones. Dust yourself down and reflect. It is the most frustrating time waiting for results and no one can tell you what they are looking for.

The process of audition needs to be changed. Perhaps through a weekend workshop because these dc's need to relax and show them what they can really do. Fingers crossed ????

[JulieW]

Tinker - definitely not directed at you. It was the post directly above mine - which I do realise was probably said in a lighthearted way (I have not had a sense of humour bypass) but we need to remember to make things clear when we put them "in print" on a forum. This is a classic example - someone read it as lighthearted, I read it as sarcastic (this is where smilies can help I suppose).

 

Good luck to everyone still waiting to hear. I do know how it feels. You're very lucky to have the support of people on here - think of all those poor people who haven't discovered this forum ;-)

[Anna C]

The process of audition won't be changed because having to show what you can do in a very short time is exactly what our children will need to do if they are lucky enough to get a company audition after training.

 

Some auditionees are cut after one or two exercises - literally 10 minutes. So unless all Artistic Directors suddenly change the way they audition dancers (which is not going to happen) then surely it's better that school auditions are more akin to that process, to prepare the students for what will happen in the long term?

 

In the outside world, job interviews are just the same; you don't get invited to stay at the Manager's house for a weekend as a protracted interview process.

 

Getting back to the forum - lighthearted or not, we cannot be seen to be accusing our Vocational Schools as "making things up as they go along". Not least because the schools in question read this PUBLIC forum.

[Tulip]

I didn't read either post as sarcastic, just mums who are anxious and frustrated and eager for news. I also feel if one m thinks a school is being mean then she has a right to say so, don't forget plenty has been said about other schools and funnily enough that was accepted. We are all here for each other, we all understand how you poor parents are feeling we are all part of AA alcoholics annonomace ha ha only jocking. So come on everyone lighten up there is far worse going on in the world.

[Guest Autumn days]

Spannerandpony, I think that auditions for those joining a school in yr 7 ( and who may therefor be just 10 yrs old at the time of audition) could justifiably be a little different from company auditions at age 19 or 20!!! Indeed, WL auditions did used to run over a weekend!

 

Edited to add that I have also had interviews for a position in business that have run over a couple of days.

Edited July 2, 2013 by mum in a spin

[Billyelliott]

I used to think like that .......but have since become more realistic - as there is no shortage of dance talent , not even among boys as has been said before on this forum , probably due to the "Billy Elliott factor " - the vocational schools are spoilt for choice these days !

It may seem harsh , but if even at 10 a child can not show off their potential in 2 hour + class then the experienced team on an audition panel must be able to make a decision out of those who they feel will benefit from the training offered.

 

If you consider that thousands audition ,and for 4 or 5 schools if you had to set aside 4 or 5 weekends for each of the finals , the process would become even more unwieldy for schools and for us !

 

The schools are after all run as a business and not as a kind of welfare organisation .... - not sure if I've expressed what I meant to .

 

It is hard to make such big decisions for age 10 , but it can start as young as 8 , when a choice to do an all boys JA Class in London means that other talents eg music lessons have to be curtailed or sacrificed . Ballet is one of the few profession where early training is so important ....All my DS school mates have little clue at this stage what they want to do with their lives , but mine has known for the last 2 years and he sticks out like a sore thumb ! Open to all sorts of ridicule .....it's HARD out there ! But our children love to dance , so we take a deep breath and do our best to help them . I think they cope with it all much better that us parents do !

 

All the best with the waiting .....

[Anna C]

Muminaspin, in an ideal world that would be perfect. But we're talking about a hugely competitive world with nowhere near enough spaces for the amount of talented children and young adults that there are. First impressions count, physique makes up a large amount of what schools are looking for (rightly or wrongly) and children are expected to be young adults at least two years before their non-dancing peers. So I don't think it's a bad thing that all ballet auditions are in a similar format as it does at least prepare people for how things will be in the future.

 

Let's not forget that ballet exams are no different - off-day or not, it's all about how you perform on the day.

 

Tulip, with regards to what is allowed and what is not allowed on the forum, we do our utmost to moderate consistently in accordance with the rules. Every forum member agrees to those rules when they sign up. Removing posts and locking threads is something we do reluctantly and with consideration. Often we try to Moderate cautiously and step in when a post is near to the mark, which is what Julie and I both did regarding the post about Elmhurst "making things up". If you feel that there are other posts which have "funnily enough been accepted", everyone has the option of using the report function to alert Moderators.

[JulieW]

It's so hard isn't it.  I'm sure all the schools are doing their very best to find the students who they think are the "best fit" for them - of course they are, that's what they're there for.

 

We know they sometimes "miss" students who go on to great things in the future, or get snapped up by another school, or students who do get in may get "assessed out" later, but it's not an exact science and we're lucky to have the opportunity for our children to audition (and many being part-funded either by the MDS or schools' own bursaries/scholarships).

 

Just back to the WL whole weekend auditions for a mo....  I know people who went through that and told how awful it was at the end when the children were told whether they had a place or not before they left.  Can you imagine all those tearful journeys home! 

[Anna C]

And the time and expense of hotels for parents etc for a weekend!

[Legseleven]

Spannerandpony, your comment about physique being a large part of what vocational schools are looking for 'rang a bell' here.

 

Although my DD wasn't interested in applying, she was interested to hear about Elmhurst's extra audition date and the application process and her comment was that Elmhurst would be choosing only those applicants with the physique they favour to audition. She took this further by saying that if she applied and wasn't given an audition, she would feel that she 'knew' that Elmhurst wouldn't be interested in her if she auditioned in the usual way in the future.

 

As she is only 12, I explained that physique can change as students go through puberty and what if an applicant was going through a growth spurt and therefore feeling awkward when their application photos were taken? Or what if it had been their application form rather than the photos which led to the candidate not being offered an audition? Her response was that Elmhurst will be able to tell from photos whether the basic physique requirements are there, even if there is a possibility of change in proportions etc as a student goes through puberty, Elmhurst and the other schools are so experienced in selection that they will get it right more often than not - and that even if an application form isn't marvellous, she thought they would almost certainly ask to see a candidate with the right physique at audition to determine whether lack of experience/expertise re technique could be dealt with at the school to allow that student to catch up with their Elmhurst peers. (She has read about Darcey Bussell having to work very hard to catch up with her peers at White Lodge when she arrived there!)

 

I know that she is a 'deep thinker' but I have to say that I was floored by her comments - especially as she has no current aspirations to dance professionally, so I didn't expect her to think so carefully about it. Whereas I would like to think she is wrong, I suspect that she isn't. (Having said that, if she did want to apply for Elmhurst or elsewhere and had applied but had not been given an audition on 26 June, I would persuade her to send in her application in the future anyway in case she is wrong! - and of course talented dancers can sometimes slip through the net as the schools are not infallible.) What I did say is that presumably each of the 'Big 4' vocational schools which take children from the age of 11 have different physique 'requirements' such that a child who isnt 'right' for one school may well be offered a place elsewhere - and that at least at 16 there is a far wider pool of vocational school places.

[Anna C]

Absolutely. A combination of growth spurt and targeted exercises by an experienced Dance Physio has resulted in my daughter's physique changing hugely from Year 6 to how she looks now. Her Physio says that you can't tell whether physique is going to be suitable for classical ballet until the teenage growth spurt is well and truly finished, and she gets so cross about some students being assessed out in Year 9 purely on the grounds of physique.

 

That's why it's so good that the field opens out at 16 with more choice of Upper Schools. At least by then everyone has a much better idea of a student's physique.

[Legseleven]

You are so right, spannerandpony - and what a wise dance physio your DD has! I may be asking for her name should DD need assistance in the future; always best to go with someone who is highly recommended;-)

[Anna C]

She's amazing. :-) Feel free to PM me if you need her details.

[Dragonlady]

As a mum of a Dd who has just gone through the mill for 6th form auditions, I wanted to warn that it does not get any easier. All auditionees are chosen to audition via photo and for those who fill the physicall criteria there are still a lot of extremely talented dancers all fighting for a place. The places are fewer and the available funded places becoming rarer. Listen to dance teachers advice and be prepared to accept that a career in classical dance is only for the lucky few... my dd dances because she loves it but at 16 is a much wiser person. Good luck to those waiting but there are always other doors if this one is closed.

T

[Legseleven]

Having read bach through this thread, whilst I confess that I feel a little sad at DD's matter of fact acceptance that physique is very important for a career in classical ballet - whilst knowing that very few dancers conform to an absolute physical ideal - I am pleased that she understands this, as do her classmates. It worries me that many DCs who are desperate to pursue ballet as a career don't realise this and believe that their talent and their love for ballet will see them through. There seem to be teachers out there who don't make the facts clear to parents and students; whereas I don't think teachers should ever state that a student must not audition for a particular school or associate scheme as they believe that they are the 'wrong shape', I do think that they should make it clear even to the youngest students that talent and love for ballet will not always be enough. Not only is this true, but it can also soften the blow if a student recognises that a factor which they cannot change may be the decider - as with pupils auditioning for 'Nutcracker', who may feel better about not being selected if they realise that it is those children who are the right size and shape to wear the existing costumes who will be chosen, not always the most talented dancers!

[Evie]

I have seen young dancers, formerly RBS JA's and MA's give up dancing altogether by the time they reach 16 or 18years of age. They have gone on to college or university to study academic subjects and never fulfilled that early potential, for various reasons. Sometimes because of physique, sometimes their love for ballet waned and sometimes because they wanted to be a 'normal' teenager, like non-dancing friends.It's a long long road, with so many decisions along the way and I have been shocked by some of the girls (and boys)who have just given up, just like that. One mum became so upset by her 16year old daughter's decision to give up that she couldn't talk about it for month's. When one teacher took hold of my friends dd upper arm and squeezed it, telling her that this was why she would never make a dancer (indicating that she was overweight), she left that London dance college after 6 weeks and came home and gave up dancing.However, it did have a happy ending, now in her mid 20's she trained to be a dance teacher, loves her job and is very happy.

[Legseleven]

Dragonlady, I hope you didn't think I was implying that vocational school entry at 16 was easier than at 11 and if you did then I sincerely apologise! At 16 they need to demonstrate not only the right physique and potential but also an established and secure technique at a very high level. All I meant was that there are more schools offering 16+ training than for the 11-16 age group, all with their own views as to their ideal students' physiques, characteristics and all offering their own unique package in terms of training methods. Your DD must be so talented to be continuing her vocational training at 16.

 

I certainly agree with you that students should listen to advice from their teachers and 'be prepared to accept that a career in classical dance is only for the lucky few' - I just wish, as in my previous post, that all teachers were giving this advice and gently preparing even young students for the sad fact that talent alone will not lead to a career in classical ballet.

[Anna C]

Anyway folks, we have got slightly off-topic from Elmhurst audition results, so for "tidiness" and ease of searching if we could stick to that it would be helpful. :-)

[Guest Autumn days]

I agree, Spanner, but just wanted to add that I didn't suggest that the audition process SHOULD be different for youngsters, just that it could justifiably be!I assume that you speak with authority when you say that it will never change, but stranger things have happened!