company auditions, why so few places...?

[meadowblythe]

Effectively it does!  As far as I am aware (happy to be corrected), in most countries the majority of the dancers are nationals, with overseas dancers being the exception.  My experience is mainly of Eastern Europe/Far East but certainly the paperwork needed to get a visa is eye watering.

 

And as @Peanut68 has stated, it's hard to argue that ballet dancers are a shortage profession here.  

[Peanut68]

In reply to Colman - Personally speaking yes! If the UK provided employment for UK dancers then fewer would be seeking overseas opportunities - but again, I do wholeheartedly support the guesting & ‘exchange’ of senior dancer roles that traditionally went on years back. Dancers ‘cut their teeth’ in the corps & artist roles & once they became more famous as soldiers they get invited to perform in galas & guest in seasons with overseas companies. Win win all round Id say. 

Edited April 9 by Peanut68

[Littleone]

On 08/04/2024 at 17:52, glowlight said:

I remember having a conversation with my dd on a long car journey when she was in her graduate year where she explained to me the statistical probability of her landing a contract with a ballet company, given the number of students graduating and the number of jobs available. She wanted to lower our expectations I think. From then on she decided to apply / audition for anything she could find (unless it involved top-drop). She continued to apply for ballet and contemporary contracts, and had a few auditions, and she went to loads of open auditions for cruise companies, Disney, agencies, musical theatre. She played the numbers game, got down to the last few several times and that softened the blow of all the times she was cut. Eventually she got on the books for Carnival, and about 5 months later she got the call offering her a contract. That was the day after she had decided she couldn't face any more auditions.

 

I know things are even harder now, but I would encourage your DCs to keep going and to keep an open mind about what jobs they are prepared to take. But also...when they've had enough you'll need to support them to step away. 

Really good to read  this positive story Glowlight ! Dd doing audition rounds and made it onto 'books' for couple of cruise companies having been cut many times 😏. So lovely that your dd got the call after so many months ! Will keep hopeful !😊

[Jan McNulty]

This is a hard one.  I am not speaking from any knowledge of the training system in the UK or anywhere else.

 

LCB will presumably have had a specific type of dancer the company wanted.  Would it be reasonable to expect them to populate the company with graduates?  As the company is privately funded would the funders have had an expectation that may not have been for graduates?

 

I have heard that graduates sometimes experience integration difficulties into companies because they are not used to performing in a company as compared to school.  A newly started company could not afford (in my opinion) the time for them to settle in.  Many years ago a company I follow was increasing in size and took in about 12 graduates.  From an audience point of view it just did not work and at the end of the year all but 2 or 3 of those graduates left the company.  LCB could not afford to find itself in that position being a company of 14 dancers.

 

Who knows what may happen over the next couple of years when the company is established.

[Pointytoes]

8 minutes ago, Jan McNulty said:

This is a hard one.  I am not speaking from any knowledge of the training system in the UK or anywhere else.

 

LCB will presumably have had a specific type of dancer the company wanted.  Would it be reasonable to expect them to populate the company with graduates?  As the company is privately funded would the funders have had an expectation that may not have been for graduates?

 

I have heard that graduates sometimes experience integration difficulties into companies because they are not used to performing in a company as compared to school.  A newly started company could not afford (in my opinion) the time for them to settle in.  Many years ago a company I follow was increasing in size and took in about 12 graduates.  From an audience point of view it just did not work and at the end of the year all but 2 or 3 of those graduates left the company.  LCB could not afford to find itself in that position being a company of 14 dancers.

 

Who knows what may happen over the next couple of years when the company is established.

While I agree in general with your thought process Jan about an independent privately funded company wanting  to ensure established experience and a wow factor of a guest lead, my young graduate daughter was among that recall list and like others had to be flown in at much expense to find out once again there never was any intention of appointing new British graduates. A total waste of time! 
Sadly, that was her response to this line up today! 

Edited April 9 by Pointytoes

[Roberta]

1 hour ago, Colman said:

And you’re happy for the rest of the world to reciprocate?

 

Yes it would perhaps work both ways!

 

 

[Sadielou]

1 hour ago, Jan McNulty said:

This is a hard one.  I am not speaking from any knowledge of the training system in the UK or anywhere else.

 

LCB will presumably have had a specific type of dancer the company wanted.  Would it be reasonable to expect them to populate the company with graduates?  As the company is privately funded would the funders have had an expectation that may not have been for graduates?

 

I have heard that graduates sometimes experience integration difficulties into companies because they are not used to performing in a company as compared to school.  A newly started company could not afford (in my opinion) the time for them to settle in.  Many years ago a company I follow was increasing in size and took in about 12 graduates.  From an audience point of view it just did not work and at the end of the year all but 2 or 3 of those graduates left the company.  LCB could not afford to find itself in that position being a company of 14 dancers.

 

Who knows what may happen over the next couple of years when the company is established.

As a privately funded company LCB can of course employ whomever they want. But as Pointytoes pointed out (no pun intended) Many dancers travelled from a far and spent a whole weekend auditioning, class on the Saturday and all day Sunday call backs. As Pointy toes daughter said a complete waste of time, money and energy  when it is obvious that most of the new LCB dancers had been offered contracts well before the audition took place. According to dancers who attended the recall audition, it turned into a vanity project on behalf of the Director and panel who spent the entire day experimenting with their choreography whilst not affording the dancers any breaks for lunch or water throughout a very long day, 10am - 6pm. Once again young naive dancers being used as commodities. Whilst I am sure this new LCB group of dancers will be excellent, I don't think they will fill the gap left by the original  LCB.  I think it is wrong to pretend that this new company is carrying on the LCB legacy, a legacy which very much needs filling both for dancers and audiences alike. The Uk desperately needs a young vibrant touring company giving young UK based dancers an opportunity to get their foot on the professional ladder whilst performing quality work to audiences around the country. Having danced with the old LCB, and having had many friends that were part of the inaugural company whilst also having kids that were involved in this last LCB audition process, I think I am qualified to make these observations.  

[Birdy]

Not related to LCB in particular, but having a lot of international dancers in companies is really not uncommon. A quick survey of dancers at American Ballet Theatre finds that more than 1/3 of the dancers are not American. In their Studio Company 5 of the 12 are not American. At San Francisco Ballet half of the dancers are not American. And we are a huge country that produces plenty of talented dancers. Last year 14 of the 24 graduates of Royal Ballet School were listed as heading to companies outside of the UK.

Edited April 9 by Birdy

[Sadielou]

5 minutes ago, Birdy said:

This is really not uncommon. A quick survey of dancers at American Ballet Theatre finds that more than 1/3 of the dancers are not American. In their Studio Company 5 of the 12 are not American. At San Francisco Ballet half of the dancers are not American. And we are a huge company that produces plenty of talented dancers. Last year 14 of the 24 graduates of Royal Ballet School were listed as heading to companies outside of the UK.

Most of the RBS 2023 graduates that went to companies outside of the UK, were not UK citizens. 

[Ruby Foo]

3 hours ago, Jan McNulty said:

This is a hard one.  I am not speaking from any knowledge of the training system in the UK or anywhere else.

 

LCB will presumably have had a specific type of dancer the company wanted.  Would it be reasonable to expect them to populate the company with graduates?  As the company is privately funded would the funders have had an expectation that may not have been for graduates?

 

I have heard that graduates sometimes experience integration difficulties into companies because they are not used to performing in a company as compared to school.  A newly started company could not afford (in my opinion) the time for them to settle in.  Many years ago a company I follow was increasing in size and took in about 12 graduates.  From an audience point of view it just did not work and at the end of the year all but 2 or 3 of those graduates left the company.  LCB could not afford to find itself in that position being a company of 14 dancers.

 

Who knows what may happen over the next couple of years when the company is established.

If Graduates are finding it difficult to settle in a Company, so much so that the audience is affected, then surely the training, especially in the arena of performance experience must be lacking?

If the Company cannot afford time for a certain percentage of Graduates to settle in then there must be a lack of vision in welcoming the forthcoming talent of the future.

No wonder there is stalemate.

[Birdy]

56 minutes ago, Sadielou said:

Most of the RBS 2023 graduates that went to companies outside of the UK, were not UK citizens. 

True. I think there were only 3.

I think the issue will always come down to numbers when students are looking for spots. If every high-quality company-affiliated school is graduating a class of 24 students and there are also really great non company-affiliated schools producing amazing dancers, there are just not enough places for all of them. This year does seem particularly tough for some reason. I know of schools that had close to 100% placement for their students last year that are still far from it this year.

[Peanut68]

I don’t think anyone expected nor would want LCB to create a company entirely employing recent graduates - any ballet company needs to have the relevant levels of experience & expertise that comes with seasoned professionals & also to gain the ‘cross pollination’ of styles that aids the art form by dancers learning from each others training styles & repertoire knowledge. But it’s sad to think this could not have been found (or offered) to more UK dancers… but the roots of this are now deeply secured as it’s been going on for way too many decades. If LCB recruited from just UK companies & just UK graduates then the odds are that this would still mean that the pool of candidates were in the most part not UK born citizens. 
Btw - I noticed too late to correct in my firmer post - spellcheck has changed my typed word of soloists to soldiers!! Apologies! 

[Roberta]

I see @Jan McNulty today updated the LBC thread on the Dance News and Information forum with a press release detailing the LCB dancers. 

 

With regard to 12 graduates joining a company at once, it's a lot to assimilate in a smaller company and I can see audiences possibly wanting to see more established dancers. Tickets aren't cheap these days. I know you have to begin somewhere to get established, of course.

 

I'm wondering why LCB went through all the rigmarole and time and yes expense of these auditions when clearly, it isn't going to be a company of inexperienced dancers, learning as they go, not with Alina Cojocaru guesting. It's a lousy way to treat young dancers though. 

[Peanut68]

I think we are perhaps being hard on LCB for holding auditions that purportedly only 4 dancers then gained contracts from. That hit rate is quite likely high in comparison to many a closed ie. Invite only following applications company audition. I guess as it was in effect a start up the feeling was that there were 14 jobs up for grabs. Yes, but just like in any industry there will likely  have been a bit of head hunting & active recruitment going on well before & after these auditions. Let’s just hope that LCB proves a big hit with UK audiences & that they do lots of audience research. If we audience goers support them & at the same time feedback how we’d really love to see more UK dancers within a UK company then maybe that will help for future recruitment opportunities - both in increasing the numbers of dancers but also perhaps looking to improve the ratio of UK/overseas talent 

Edited April 10 by Peanut68

[Roberta]

4 hours ago, Sadielou said:

As Pointy toes daughter said a complete waste of time, money and energy  when it is obvious that most of the new LCB dancers had been offered contracts well before the audition took place. According to dancers who attended the recall audition, it turned into a vanity project on behalf of the Director and panel who spent the entire day experimenting with their choreography whilst not affording the dancers any breaks for lunch or water throughout a very long day, 10am - 6pm. Once again young naive dancers being used as commodities

 

 

13 minutes ago, Peanut68 said:

I think we are perhaps being hard on LCB

 

No excuse for treating dancers as described above though.

[dancefanatic]

15 hours ago, Peanut68 said:

This is where our government really needs to step in & remove the job of  ballet dancer  from the list of employment roles that are unable to be filled & thus ok to easily hire overseas dancers. I am not against overseas talent but feel that should be used in the capacity of guest artists in principal roles - this giving opportunity to enjoy very many overseas dancers. But I do strongly believe that all UK based ballet companies should employ only UK dancers & professionals in at least the bulk of their positions.

It seems ludicrous that the government spends millions funding the training of UK dancers through MDS & DaDa awards as well as supporting ballet schools through other arts & education funding & charity status to then not try & protect in some way the company vacancies for these home trained dancers. 

I couldn't agree more!  My DD was one of the many UK nationals auditioned for London City, she got through to the final round and then was kept waiting for just over 2 weeks before they told her thanks but no thanks.  And then to see the number of overseas dancers apparently walking into all of our national companies and yet our schools are producing high numbers of talented dancers who are UK nationals.... makes my blood boil at times to be honest.  Yes, companies should want the best dancers they can find but sometimes to the detriment of equally talented UK dancers who can no longer obtain work overseas as easily as in years past.

[Tiaramum]

41 minutes ago, dancefanatic said:

I couldn't agree more!  My DD was one of the many UK nationals auditioned for London City, she got through to the final round and then was kept waiting for just over 2 weeks before they told her thanks but no thanks.  And then to see the number of overseas dancers apparently walking into all of our national companies and yet our schools are producing high numbers of talented dancers who are UK nationals.... makes my blood boil at times to be honest.  Yes, companies should want the best dancers they can find but sometimes to the detriment of equally talented UK dancers who can no longer obtain work overseas as easily as in years past.

100% this. The schools have to follow suit too. Proudly showing off graduates who in reality are only there for the grad year after winning at big comps. Graduates are not really graduates of the school. The UK dancer struggles from that year 10 moment in comparison to internationals. 

[Roberta]

It's a fact of life that ballet companies are now international, though reality is they always have been to some extent,  it's also a fact of life that there are too many vocational schools (which basically are money making businesses) producing a surplus of highly trained dancers who in the end will struggle to find work. 

 

Even if every UK dance job was given to a UK dancer (not really going to happen is it?) there would still be a surplus as we don't have that many companies and vacancies are few. 

Edited April 10 by Roberta

[batmanballetshoes]

8 hours ago, Peanut68 said:

I think we are perhaps being hard on LCB for holding auditions that purportedly only 4 dancers then gained contracts from. That hit rate is quite likely high in comparison to many a closed ie. Invite only following applications company audition. I guess as it was in effect a start up the feeling was that there were 14 jobs up for grabs. Yes, but just like in any industry there will likely  have been a bit of head hunting & active recruitment going on well before & after these auditions. Let’s just hope that LCB proves a big hit with UK audiences & that they do lots of audience research. If we audience goers support them & at the same time feedback how we’d really love to see more UK dancers within a UK company then maybe that will help for future recruitment opportunities - both in increasing the numbers of dancers but also perhaps looking to improve the ratio of UK/overseas talent 

LCB was not an open audition. It was selected from video.

[Sadielou]

26 minutes ago, batmanballetshoes said:

LCB was not an open audition. It was selected from video.

It seems that the audition was just a marketing move. The same as using the LCB name. The blurb and the fact that the Co Director held, paid for pre audition classes at Pineapple with the carrot of being seen early and getting "pre audition feedback" definitely gave most the feeling that this would be a company of mainly new dancers. The Director even told the auditionees at the beginning of the final audition, that they were looking for 12 dancers. The whole audition culture has become toxic. 

[batmanballetshoes]

25 minutes ago, Sadielou said:

It seems that the audition was just a marketing move. The same as using the LCB name. The blurb and the fact that the Co Director held, paid for pre audition classes at Pineapple with the carrot of being seen early and getting "pre audition feedback" definitely gave most the feeling that this would be a company of mainly new dancers. The Director even told the auditionees at the beginning of the final audition, that they were looking for 12 dancers. The whole audition culture has become toxic. 

Totally and this guy is one of the better ones. It’ll never change… 

[Sadielou]

27 minutes ago, batmanballetshoes said:

Totally and this guy is one of the better ones. It’ll never change… 

I really wish Company directors would be honest. How hard would it have been to tell the kids that they were only looking for max 4 dancers. The general audition format now days is to fill in a form with all details send pics to show body proportions and a video with short class and two solos. If the director cannot tell from this quite detailed information who are the best candidates, then quite frankly why bother. If you are looking for 12 dancers (as was the original quota) why bring in 200. Surely the candidates could have been whittled down to maximum 25, or do directors and their assistants just not bother to look at the audition material they ask for. Know recently of kids travelling from abroad to attend invited auditions, having previously sent in all required details. Then after a long day of auditions being told that they are too tall / small. Why didn't the company read the audition form on which height is one of the first details required, thus saving these kids a great deal of money in time and travel expenses ? Northern ballet are great culprits of this, along with holding auditions " Because they are required to, to keep  their grant" even when there are no jobs available. Transparency is urgently needed among those in charge. 

 

Edited April 10 by Sadielou
repeated quotes

[Kerfuffle]

I was looking at Birmingham RB and they seem to have a lot of mainly RBS British alumni (though not many Elmhurst). Is this just a generational thing though ? 

[Lifeafterballet]

14 minutes ago, Kerfuffle said:

I was looking at Birmingham RB and they seem to have a lot of mainly RBS British alumni (though not many Elmhurst). Is this just a generational thing though ? 

They do on average taken about 5 RBS Grads into the Corps per year.
There is one scholarship for an Elmhurst student for a year, funded privately. 
This happens every year, apart from in 2020 when Carlos Acosta came to the school to audition the graduates and then told them that they had decided not to have one that year. That year group had already graduated but were enticed back for the audition in the Autumn term. Then he used them for free in the Nutcracker. My daughter and another young lady got paid for the final performances as they had officially left the school and were dancing with the main company. Thats the only pay-check she ever had from ballet after 8 years of training 🤣

Rarely do Elmhurst pupils get corps contracts without doing the apprenticeship first. I can think of 2 men and one young lady within the past 12 years. 
My daughter and son were used as main company dancers on multiple occasions for free, sorry for the experience, but Elmhurst pupils are rarely hired direct unlike RBS. 
Things might change now they have BRB 2 but with the funding cuts this and next year I can’t see it happening sadly. 

[Emeralds]

I'm afraid 200 dancers to audition for just 4 places is actually  common around the world - 12 is actually a massive number- if you shortlist it to only 25 or even 30, the 170 who weren't called will say "why wasn't I shortlisted? At least let me turn up to show you what I can do in person. A photo can't dance".

 

There isn't an easy way to answer the question. Nobody wants to believe they will be the 13th dancer who won't get hired for one of the 12 spots or the 5th dancer who doesn't get one of the 4 jobs available. That's how you end up with 200 at one audition.

 

I personally wouldn't pay for pre-audition classes/sessions/talks etc. I suspect sometimes they get organised because they get so many queries by phone or email from candidates (or their parents) hoping for tips.  (I personally wouldn't organise one either- the costs of studio or room hire, cost of music or a pianist, insurance etc....) If you're very good, they will hire you whether you've done the session or not. And unfortunately, with the arts scene the way it is nowadays, LCB could even have filled all their positions with experienced freelance dancers in Britain without sp much as an audition because there are many of them.

 

I have mentioned this next suggestion before and some parents have strong views about this: competitions. Not any fly by night one but just YAGP, Prix de Lausanne and International Ballet Competition Varna, Helsinki, Jackson (in Mississippi, USA), New York, Tokyo, or Shanghai. Ballet company directors do attend them, watch the rounds, and offer jobs to medallists and finalists they rate highly.  Yes, there is a cost involved to prepare and get there. But if you think about it, travelling to every company individually for an audition adds up by the time you travel to 10 companies especially if they are abroad. (I understand PdL covers or subsidises travel expenses but you might need to double check current rules.) 

 

At a competition, 15 or more directors could be watching to select dancers. So with an international competition it could end up cheaper than going to audition at 15 different companies across the UK and abroad.

 

You will be given a chance to perform your solo or pas de deux on stage whereas at auditions you could be rejected even before you have finished barre work. If you do really well in a competition you get a certificate or medal (or even prize money as well) which nobody can take away from you and will always remain on your cv (eg "finalist, senior women, IBC Helsinki"  "bronze medal, junior division, YAGP Rimini/Tamps/New York etc")  whereas you can't put down "made it to the last 6 of audition for X Ballet but didn't get hired". There is video preselection for competitions of course- some competitions are more tough to get through and others less so. 

 

With regards to ballet companies, graduates/students/parents might also want to look up Grand Audition and see if that is something that will work for you/your offspring. 10 companies currently take part. 

 

This is not advice saying what one must or mustn't do. Just options to consider. Being a dancer is a realy tough career nowadays. 

 

Edited April 10 by Emeralds

[Kerfuffle]

1 hour ago, Lifeafterballet said:

They do on average taken about 5 RBS Grads into the Corps per year.
There is one scholarship for an Elmhurst student for a year, funded privately. 
This happens every year, apart from in 2020 when Carlos Acosta came to the school to audition the graduates and then told them that they had decided not to have one that year. That year group had already graduated but were enticed back for the audition in the Autumn term. Then he used them for free in the Nutcracker. My daughter and another young lady got paid for the final performances as they had officially left the school and were dancing with the main company. Thats the only pay-check she ever had from ballet after 8 years of training 🤣

Rarely do Elmhurst pupils get corps contracts without doing the apprenticeship first. I can think of 2 men and one young lady within the past 12 years. 
My daughter and son were used as main company dancers on multiple occasions for free, sorry for the experience, but Elmhurst pupils are rarely hired direct unlike RBS. 
Things might change now they have BRB 2 but with the funding cuts this and next year I can’t see it happening sadly. 

This sounds a shame for Elmhurst students, especially not being paid were they over 18? It’s so  sad that the funding has been cut to Birmingham arts as well. Are the RBS grads all taken on following Aub Jensen ? I saw there were several ENBS grads too. Is it that the ballet world is very London centric with its hiring? 

[Kerfuffle]

42 minutes ago, Emeralds said:

I'm afraid 200 dancers to audition for just 4 places is actually  common around the world - 12 is actually a massive number- if you shortlist it to only 25 or even 30, the 170 who weren't called will say "why wasn't I shortlisted? At least let me turn up to show you what I can do in person. A photo can't dance".

 

There isn't an easy way to answer the question. Nobody wants to believe they will be the 13th dancer who won't get hired for one of the 12 spots or the 5th dancer who doesn't get one of the 4 jobs. That's how you end up with 200 at one audition.

 

I personally wouldn't pay for pre-audition classes/sessions/talks etc. I suspect sometimes they get organised because they get so many queries by phone or email

from candidates (or their parents) hoping for tips.  (I personally wouldn't organise one either- the costs of studio or room hire, cost of music or a pianist, insurance etc....) If you're very good, they will hire you whether you've done the session or not.

 

And unfortunately, with the arts scene the way it is nowadays, LCB could even have filled all their positions with experienced freelance dancers in Britain without sp much as an audition because there are many of them.

 

I have mentioned this next suggestion before and some parents have strong views about this: competitions. Not any fly by night one but just YAGP, Prix de Lausanne and International Ballet Competition Varna, Helsinki, Jackson (in Mississippi, USA), New York, Tokyo, or Shanghai. Ballet company directors do attend them, watch the rounds, and offer jobs to medallists and finalists they rate highly.  Yes, there is a cost involved to prepare and get there. But if you think about, travelling to every company individually for an audition adds up by the time you travel to 10 companies especially if they are abroad. (I understand PdL covers or subsidises travel expenses but you might need to double check current rules.) 

 

At a competition, 20 or more directors could be watching to select dancers.  You will be guaranteed a chance to perform your solo or pas de deux on stage whereas at auditions you could be rejected even before you have finished barre work. If you do well in a competition you get a certificate or medal (or even prize money as well) which nobody can take away from you and will always remain on your cv (eg "finalist, senior women, IBC Helsinki"  "bronze medal, junior division, YAGP Rimini/Tamps/New York etc")  whereas you can't put down "made it to the last 6 of audition for X Ballet but didn't get hired". There is video preselection for competitions of course- some competitions are more tough to get through and others less so. 

 

With regards to ballet companies, graduates/students/parents might also want to look up Grand Audition and see if that is something that will work for you/your offspring. 10 companies currently take part. 

 

This is not advice saying what one must or mustn't do. Just options to consider. Being a dancer is a realy tough career nowadays. 

 

I think this could work especially if the dancer’s strengths are performance - some find it hard to project themselves on video and vice versa. Competitions can be exhilarating in their own right. It’s possible that even new companies hire people they already have some connections  to, this would be normal within other arts industries. I guess with established companies doing some research helps - what kind of dancer do they employ, their look and way of moving? 
 

[Peanut68]

3 hours ago, Kerfuffle said:

I have mentioned this next suggestion before and some parents have strong views about this: competitions. Not any fly by night one but just YAGP, Prix de Lausanne and International Ballet Competition Varna, Helsinki, Jackson (in Mississippi, USA), New York, Tokyo, or Shanghai. Ballet company directors do attend them, watch the rounds, and offer jobs to medallists and finalists they rate highly.  Yes, there is a cost involved to prepare and get there.

The last sentence especially important....it costs VAST sums of money to prepare with private coaching (unless you just happen to be a favoured one at vocational school who may be coached within already paid for training), competition/audition entry fees, travel (often overseas) hotel & subsistence costs (& I have heard that often it is the expectation that the parent funds the travel/hotel/food costs for a teacher to accompany a student!), tutu/costume hire costs, it goes on & on...this is an especially hard thing to justify when a family/government/charity etc have paid for student to train to graduate level - all buying into the idea that the vocational schools offer the relevant training & performance experience & job preparation support, industry exposure through graduate showcase performances within their upper school & graduate year courses. I've yet to see this being even half provided in-house from any school/college despite the 'sales blurb' without it again incurring huge costs for photos/videos/costume hire/studio hire/private coaching/travel/often having to help fund any performance tour costs etc.

And so the rip-off nature of this game goes on....sigh.

[glowlight]

6 hours ago, Sadielou said:

Northern ballet are great culprits of this, along with holding auditions " Because they are required to, to keep  their grant" even when there are no jobs available. Transparency is urgently needed among those in charge. 

 

Out of interest, can I ask who you are quoting here?

[Sadielou]

This was said a few years ago by David Nixon to all auditionees (of which my son was one) at the start of the audition. A few years later when another son attended the Northern Ballet audition, his friend who had travelled from abroad was kept till the end of an all day audition, only to be told by the new Director that he was too small. The boy was furious as height had been the first thing that had to be filled out on the audition form and he had spent a whole day travelling to be told something that would have been obvious from the form. This year a friend of my Son was kept to the end of the Northern audition and told that although they would like to give him a contract, there were currently none available. Directors / Companies should be transparent at audition time. Advertise auditions but make it clear if there are no contracts available and that the audition will essentially only to be an opportunity to be seen for future reference. Dancers can then decide if it is worth the money and time to attend. Canadian National Ballet were very fair in this respect, my son was invited to audition, but they made it clear that the company had no contracts available. Surely all companies, especially in this current financial climate should be as transparent.

[Pas de Quatre]

Festival Ballet (before it became ENB) also had mandatory auditions to keep their subsidy. No one ever got offered a place, and the legend was that the AD visited RBS beforehand and had already made a decision.

[glowlight]

Thankyou for clarifying @Sadielou - it is great to hear your ds's personal experience.

 

[Emeralds]

1 hour ago, Peanut68 said:

The last sentence especially important....it costs VAST sums of money to prepare ...

And so the rip-off nature of this game goes on....sigh.

Really sad to hear that you or anyone you know has been charged extra, Peanut68. Simple standard variations (OK they are not simple to do well) should be taught at all ballet schools. Music students get taught standard sonatas, etudes and concertos as part of their syllabus and they can enter competitions with that. No need for extra fees. (Of course, not everyone is necessarily good enough to win, not without a lot of study and practice.) Ballet students should get the same. If they aren't learning the Giselle, Don Q and Swan Lake variations, what in the world are they doing all day?? (Practising the technique, some might say, but it has to be put together into a variation. Many ballet schools abroad are teaching the variations as young as 14- not in a precocious or freaky fashion (that would be teaching it at 7....which unfortunately does exist!) but educating them about the phrasing, line and meaning, so they gradually build up the difficulty.

 

I don't know of any successful winner at a major competition who went with a teacher- you've been tricked if a teacher said they must go. Katherine Healy (silver, Jackson, gold, Varna) went with her mother to Jackson because she was underage (14) but most go on their own. If they are young, and it's a city where English is not the first language, going with a parent or trusted relative can help. Don't pick an expensive hotel. There's absolutely no need to bring a teacher or coach- it's too late to learn anything new, and there's no need to analyse a performance afterwards- it really doesn't help the student. Many competitions such as YAGP put the rounds on YouTube. 

 

Competitions shouldn't be expensive either- you're don't get more points for a couture tutu, and you're not expected to fly direct to get there. You do have to get costumes but there are inexpensive second hand tutus, or you can dance Giselle and Swanilda's variations which have cheaper skirts, and Medora's variation can also be danced in a costume with a flowing skirt which works out cheaper.  Likewise there are sensible ways to create a good male costume. Don't be quick to fork out a lot of money or assume you must. But graduates do need to have the drive to get ahead. There are an awful lot of very good graduates all competing for the same job. 

 

That said, companies that advertise auditions when there are no jobs or charge money for auditions- both are deplorable. You must ask before going to any audition- any decent company will tell you how many jobs are available. They're not obliged to hire if nobody is good enough but they should be honest about no vacancies.