How to stop filming/photos during performances

[Garnier]

I went to see a performance today and had exceptionally bought tickets in the most expensive category. The woman in front of me, one seat to the left, filmed the whole first act. At the interval I reminded her that photography was forbidden and was disturbing me, and she agreed not to do it during the second (and last) act. 

 

Ten minutes into the second act, she whipped out her phone and started filming again. I then tapped her on the shoulder and she turned it off, then discretely (but not so discretely that I couldn’t see it) started up again until the end.

 

i’m really sick of this - quite frankly, it destroyed my whole enjoyment of the performance. 

I’m honestly thinking about giving up live performances, at the very least of the bigger ballets where there are (possibly) more people likely to behave like this (although I may be completely wrong on that front). At the very least I don’t see the point in buying more expensive tickets if the overall experience is not likely to be more pleasant. From where I was sitting, I could see at least 10 people in the “expensive” seats filming on and off. I don’t mind filming during curtain calls but really can’t bear it during the performance itself.

 

Is there anything we can do to bring in more stringent controls so that this stops? I’ve written to the opera house and given the woman’s seat number, but assume they won’t do much other than tell me that they do make announcements at the beginning (which are clearly not acting as a deterrent).

 

What can we do?
 

 

 

Edited December 3, 2023 by Garnier

[capybara]

The announcements at the beginning are nowhere near strident enough.

Giving that message out twice  would be a start.

Then, much as it would be a case of cutting off our noses to spite our faces, I think that dancers should be under strict instructions NOT to post any clips taken during a live performance on their IG accounts.

 

(What happens abroad is a different matter but, surely, an agreement to enforce this rule among the UK’s major companies would be a start.)

[MAB]

Where were the ushers?  Two young women arrived late at the Wigmore Hall and sat in front of me, one immediately pulled out her phone.  The usherette was there in a trice, asking her to put it away.  She did but five minute later out came the phone again, once more the usherette insisted she turn it off.  It stayed off and she didn't returm after the interval.  

[Tango Dancer]

25 minutes ago, MAB said:

Where were the ushers?  Two young women arrived late at the Wigmore Hall and sat in front of me, one immediately pulled out her phone.  The usherette was there in a trice, asking her to put it away.  She did but five minute later out came the phone again, once more the usherette insisted she turn it off.  It stayed off and she didn't returm after the interval.  

I think they're a lot stricter about this at the Wigmore Hall.  Also it's a smaller venue so easier to police.  I've never had a problem with the audience misbehaving at the Wigmore.  

 

I found the audience behaviour really poor at the Leeds Theatre Nutcracker on Friday night and the ushers did nothing about it.  

 

Smaller venues are better at this I think.  I've seen Northern Ballet in their own small theatre and people behave significantly better.  

[LinMM]

From what others are saying on another thread about ticket sales it could be that not everyone in the expensive seats has actually paid much money for their seats so perhaps not so appreciative of their luck to be sitting there or even maybe not even that keen ballet goers. It’s much more difficult to be genuinely absorbed in something if you are filming it. 
Maybe it’s difficult on occasions for the ushers to always take control of people filming if it means disturbing the performance even more by doing so. 

[RobR]

3 hours ago, capybara said:

The announcements at the beginning are nowhere near strident enough.

Giving that message out twice  would be a start.

Then, much as it would be a case of cutting off our noses to spite our faces, I think that dancers should be under strict instructions NOT to post any clips taken during a live performance on their IG accounts.

 

(What happens abroad is a different matter but, surely, an agreement to enforce this rule among the UK’s major companies would be a start.)

I don’t generally care for 'strident' announcements nor for management proscribing and restricting dancers or any other staff members from what they might do in their personal space.

 

I appreciate that the behaviour described by @Garnieris unforgivable but we don’t live in police state (yet) and, in any event, I’d certainly miss @Rob Ss wonderful photos

 

[Guest oncnp]

14 minutes ago, RobR said:

I don’t generally care for 'strident' announcements nor for management proscribing and restricting dancers or any other staff members from what they might do in their personal space.

 

I appreciate that the behaviour described by @Garnieris unforgivable but we don’t live in police state (yet) and, in any event, I’d certainly miss @Rob Ss wonderful photos

 

 

Not sure how following the house rules you agreed to when you bought the ticket or signed an employment contract amounts to a police state but I don't think anyone is suggesting curtain call pictures should be banned as they are in Japan. 

Edited December 3, 2023 by oncnp

[Jan McNulty]

8 hours ago, RobR said:

I don’t generally care for 'strident' announcements nor for management proscribing and restricting dancers or any other staff members from what they might do in their personal space.

 

I appreciate that the behaviour described by @Garnieris unforgivable but we don’t live in police state (yet) and, in any event, I’d certainly miss @Rob Ss wonderful photos

 

 

 

I don't see an issue with curtain calls (although some people do) but if there are people around you, no matter who you are, it is disrespectful to whip out your phone and start filming or otherwise using the phone.

 

At both the Birmingham Hippodrome and Newcastle Theatre Royal recently I have seen the ushers holding paddles with "No photography", "No talking" symbols walking up and down the aisle before the start of the performance too.  

 

9 hours ago, Tango Dancer said:

 

 

I found the audience behaviour really poor at the Leeds Theatre Nutcracker on Friday night and the ushers did nothing about it.  

 

 

I was at Leeds Grand on Saturday for both performances and there was nothing untoward going on anywhere near where I was sitting fortunately.  In fact I have to say that at the matinee there were some very young children sitting near me and they were wonderfully engrossed in the ballet rather than being disruptive.  Just lucky for me I guess.

[capybara]

8 hours ago, RobR said:

I don’t generally care for 'strident' announcements nor for management proscribing and restricting dancers or any other staff members from what they might do in their personal space.

 

I appreciate that the behaviour described by @Garnieris unforgivable but we don’t live in police state (yet) and, in any event, I’d certainly miss @Rob Ss wonderful photos

 

 

The problem is though @RobR, that some audience members are being prevented from enjoying performances (for which they have paid heavily) while others carry on behaving as they fancy “in their personal space”. And current measures to address the problem aren’t working.

 

No one has suggested banning curtain call photos (or rehearsal ones).
 

[RobR]

I’m sorry @capybara, I now think that my post was probably badly worded. 
 

I took exception, wrongly of course, to the use of the word 'strident', which has connotations I dislike and also the suggestion that dancers (indeed any staff) should be given ‘strict instructions'. It’s not they who are filming.

 

But, I did word it poorly. Sorry 

[bridiem]

In respect of the ROH, I do think that the announcements are far too restrained/genteel (and not even very loud). I think they need to be louder, clearer and more authoritative.

[capybara]

13 minutes ago, bridiem said:

In respect of the ROH, I do think that the announcements are far too restrained/genteel (and not even very loud). I think they need to be louder, clearer and more authoritative.

Authoritative!
That’s exactly what I meant. The announcements are gabbled through as if they are of no consequence.

[Sim]

13 hours ago, Garnier said:

I went to see a performance today and had exceptionally bought tickets in the most expensive category. The woman in front of me, one seat to the left, filmed the whole first act. At the interval I reminded her that photography was forbidden and was disturbing me, and she agreed not to do it during the second (and last) act. 

 

Ten minutes into the second act, she whipped out her phone and started filming again. I then tapped her on the shoulder and she turned it off, then discretely (but not so discretely that I couldn’t see it) started up again until the end.

 

i’m really sick of this - quite frankly, it destroyed my whole enjoyment of the performance. 

I’m honestly thinking about giving up live performances, at the very least of the bigger ballets where there are (possibly) more people likely to behave like this (although I may be completely wrong on that front). At the very least I don’t see the point in buying more expensive tickets if the overall experience is not likely to be more pleasant. From where I was sitting, I could see at least 10 people in the “expensive” seats filming on and off. I don’t mind filming during curtain calls but really can’t bear it during the performance itself.

 

Is there anything we can do to bring in more stringent controls so that this stops? I’ve written to the opera house and given the woman’s seat number, but assume they won’t do much other than tell me that they do make announcements at the beginning (which are clearly not acting as a deterrent).

 

What can we do?
 

 

 

Was this at the ROH?  

[alison]

I doubt it, since there were only 2 acts, and Dante has 3.

[Benjamin]

What they should do is have an announcement (at the same time that they proclaim that filming is prohibited) that it is possible to watch the full performance on ROH Stream (etc for different companies). No need to record it when you can find it online for better quality. There’s your solution! Not saying it would stop everyone, but I’m sure there would be less of it.

[Rob S]

14 minutes ago, Benjamin said:

What they should do is have an announcement (at the same time that they proclaim that filming is prohibited) that it is possible to watch the full performance on ROH Stream (etc for different companies). No need to record it when you can find it online for better quality. There’s your solution! Not saying it would stop everyone, but I’m sure there would be less of it.

 

Unless you're suggesting the ROH make every performance available as a stream people like to get pics/videos of things they're actually at...often of a cast not featured in current streams.

 

My suggestion would be for them to announce that photography is banned/forbidden etc until the curtain call at the end of the performance. That lets people know that they will be able to get some sort of photographic souvenir if they want one. I'm sure many of the mid performance snappers don't even know that there's a curtain call

Edited December 4, 2023 by Rob S

[Sim]

39 minutes ago, alison said:

I doubt it, since there were only 2 acts, and Dante has 3.

That's why I was asking....the thread is mostly discussing the procedures at the ROH (where I find the ushers always pounce on anyone using a mobile phone, and rightly so) because it is being assumed that Garnier is talking about the ROH, so I just wanted to hear it from them as which theatre they were visiting.

[RobR]

51 minutes ago, Sim said:

That's why I was asking....the thread is mostly discussing the procedures at the ROH (where I find the ushers always pounce on anyone using a mobile phone, and rightly so) because it is being assumed that Garnier is talking about the ROH, so I just wanted to hear it from them as which theatre they were visiting.

That's also my experience 

[Suffolkgal]

In the theatre shows have been stopped for this. I was at Rent years ago when Anthony Rapp spotted a phone and stopped the show. It’s very distracting apart from anyone else. I think I’d have dobbed her in! When there is proper filming then the company, creatives and artists have some control over where it is used. I love the curtain call pics and snips though that’s very different I reckon. The way these are shared by artists shows I think they are fine with it.

[Garnier]

Thanks to everyone for the responses - I will use those suggestions when (if) there is ever a reply to my email.

 

To answer the question above, this was actually at the Paris Opera but I've seen similar things happen at various other places in a few different countries recently - in one case the two women in front of me were actually posting photos and messages to their respective Facebook pages during the performance, and replying to new messages as they came in! So it seems to be an issue across Europe (and probably elsewhere). The suggestions made for the ROH are therefore very relevant for others.

 

Great to hear about the ushers at the ROH though - maybe they could offer some training to their counterparts! 

 

[Emeralds]

Several years ago, ENB put up typed notices around the Royal Albert Hall corridors asking people not to photograph or film any of the show (Cinderella) while the music and dancing were taking place, but concluded by saying it was fine to photograph or film the bows at the end of the show. That seemed to have an effective outcome - couldn't see anyone attempting filming or photography during the performance itself.

 

I find that culprits who are going to be selfish and inconsiderate will film or switch on phones to read during the show even if there is an announcement....as though in retaliation. I have once seen an usher informing the row in person (where the culprit was sitting) to turn off devices during the show, and when she left, the culprit snickered to her companion, "well, that's only for other people".

 

The most effective measures I have seen are a) a torchlight being shone at the face of the culprit while they were doing it (at Mary Poppins and a few other West End plays and musicals), b) a sharp/poke with an elbow or fingers and whispered "switch off your phone/camera!". One has to be firm sometimes....otherwise you'll end up with people bringing big ipads to film the entire performance -as they hold it high up, they themselves will be able to see the show but people behind them can't! (This was at an amateur performance which included children, and on another occasion, at an exhibition of Impressionist paintings. I have no idea why someone needed to film a large oil painting that doesn't move....!) 

Edited December 4, 2023 by Emeralds

[San Perregrino]

58 minutes ago, Garnier said:

Thanks to everyone for the responses - I will use those suggestions when (if) there is ever a reply to my email.

 

To answer the question above, this was actually at the Paris Opera but I've seen similar things happen at various other places in a few different countries recently - in one case the two women in front of me were actually posting photos and messages to their respective Facebook pages during the performance, and replying to new messages as they came in! So it seems to be an issue across Europe (and probably elsewhere). The suggestions made for the ROH are therefore very relevant for others.

 

Great to hear about the ushers at the ROH though - maybe they could offer some training to their counterparts! 

 

The problem is exacerbated at POB because there are fold-out seats which occupy the aisles during a performance. It is therefore almost impossible for an usher to intervene.

I find a gentle tap on the shoulder followed by “I’m sorry your camera/phone is very distracting.” rather than “please don’t film”. can get good results. 

Edited December 4, 2023 by PeterS

[Garnier]

6 hours ago, Emeralds said:

Several years ago, ENB put up typed notices around the Royal Albert Hall corridors asking people not to photograph or film any of the show (Cinderella) while the music and dancing were taking place, but concluded by saying it was fine to photograph or film the bows at the end of the show. That seemed to have an effective outcome - couldn't see anyone attempting filming or photography during the performance itself.

 

I find that culprits who are going to be selfish and inconsiderate will film or switch on phones to read during the show even if there is an announcement....as though in retaliation. I have once seen an usher informing the row in person (where the culprit was sitting) to turn off devices during the show, and when she left, the culprit snickered to her companion, "well, that's only for other people".

 

The most effective measures I have seen are a) a torchlight being shone at the face of the culprit while they were doing it (at Mary Poppins and a few other West End plays and musicals), b) a sharp/poke with an elbow or fingers and whispered "switch off your phone/camera!". One has to be firm sometimes....otherwise you'll end up with people bringing big ipads to film the entire performance -as they hold it high up, they themselves will be able to see the show but people behind them can't! (This was at an amateur performance which included children, and on another occasion, at an exhibition of Impressionist paintings. I have no idea why someone needed to film a large oil painting that doesn't move....!) 

I do love the idea of the torchlight!

[JNC]

21 minutes ago, Garnier said:

I do love the idea of the torchlight!

 

I've seen it used at the London Coliseum and it's very effective, literally shining a spotlight and embarrassing someone! The only problem it is also quite distracting to everyone else behind, but given it is usually a short interruption and prevents a longer nuisance I quite like it. It also puts the onus on ushers to call this behaviour out. Whilst I'm not opposed to individual audience members calling out this type of behaviour (and would support anyone doing so), I have been on the receiving end of some nasty responses when I have done this so despite being relatively confident I have tended to refrain more than I would usually as I often am alone and it leaves a nasty feeling that I don't wish to ruin the ballet. 

 

One occasion wasn't even me calling out someone, but the person next to me. The person in front who was photographing then proceeded to raise their hand in front of my face (I was standing and they were sitting) to block my view, almost hitting me in the face waving it about! Another instance was where I asked someone to put their camera away and was told "a please would be nice!" to which I was so shocked I could only stare in response as I don't think please is exactly necessary when someone is breaking the rules (I appreciate it wouldn't help but I also if you add the please does it make it sound like it's optional, sometimes going in strong is the most effective thing with these people). 

 

I appreciate the Garnier is a bit of a frustrating one for the pull down seats reason you mention but I would have said something to the person if possible, and if not to an usher at the interval. 

 

I wonder if this thread could be merged with bad audience behaviour (if mods think appropriate) as lots of similar conversations have happened on there. 

[RobR]

2 minutes ago, JNC said:

 

I wonder if this thread could be merged with bad audience behaviour (if mods think appropriate) as lots of similar conversations have happened on there. 

Good idea 👍 

[DVDfan]

I think it is for the ushers to deal with any actions which audience members have been  specifically asked not to do. They should have the authority and can't be dismissed as 'disgusted of Tunbridge'. 

However, I  think it would also  be useful to know why people ignore these rules. Not knowing it was a rule would be one reason, but it doesn't sound as though this is often the case. Many years ago I had a conversation with a published author which revealed that he listened to pirated music tapes all the time. He clearly thought that the music belonged to everyone and  that it was the publishers, agents etc who were doing wrong in demanding payment. Why he thought this I don't know,  given that the copyright and royalties on his own work were obviously important to him.

So maybe the filmers have a similar attitude, think this is a copyright issue and not an audience disrupting issue. If I am right, adding something to a clear announcement about the reason for the restriction would help. It isn't always obvious that something you do routinely is upsetting to other people in a particular context.

[Jan McNulty]

You've made some very good points there @DVDfan.

 

Perhaps the announcements should be rephrased to make them stronger and also to say how disruptive it is to other audience members and the performers.

 

I think I probably mentioned on the Audience Behaviour that when I saw Message in a Bottle at The Lowry earlier this year.  The announcement asked people not to take photos/film/use their phones during the performance but to please take curtain call videos and photos and post them on social media.

 

As far as I was aware the audience abided by this.

[MAB]

3 hours ago, DVDfan said:

Many years ago I had a conversation with a published author which revealed that he listened to pirated music tapes all the time

 

I'm told there are websites that specialise in pirated performances.  A friend once gave me a pirated opera CD, It was a rare early opera and at that time there was no commercial recording available.  I myself bought what turned out to be a pirated ballet DVD once off of ebay which I bought in good faith.  I imagined someone was selling a Russian DVD and was surprised when it turned out to be an amateur effort.  However that ballet is no longer performed and no legitimate DVD of it exists.  I have no doubt it was made by someone recording it for a cast member who spotted its money making potential.

 

I have quite a number of opera and ballet DVDs all authentic and have no time whatsoever for the poor quality clips that spring up on You Tube, unless they are of historical interest.

 

Perhaps someone should start a thread on ballets and casts we wish had been recorded for posterity and weren't.

[Sim]

1 minute ago, MAB said:

 

Perhaps someone should start a thread on ballets and casts we wish had been recorded for posterity and weren't.

Perhaps that someone could be you....great idea!!  Go for it! 

 

[DVDfan]

I think that the situation is morally different when there are no commercial recordings available. In that case a piece of culture that would otherwise be lost is being kept alive. And I suspect that the artists concerned are just pleased that someone is watching/listening/reading them. If they even know about it.

Obviously if you buy in good faith, you are not to blame if the item was pirated.

 

What I meant to say was that in order to stop something like filming at the ballet, you need to know why people do it.

[Garnier]

Just writing to update that I received a very nice and understanding reply to the email I sent to the opera house complaining about the particular incident. It was quite reassuring to be taken seriously!