Vocational school applications for Y7 entry 2022

[NotadanceMa]

3 minutes ago, Neverdancedjustamum said:

I can totally see what you mean @BellaF and a part of me can’t help but think that too especially if they are already decided on accepting an offer already. However, I also think that these days a lot of these kids and their parents invest so much (money and time) in preparing for these auditions that they might as well show up to all even if they have an offer they’re intending to accept. For their dance schools too, it’s good marketing (“So and so got offers from these schools”).
 

Yes, I’m just thinking of the last few years and I’m not sure how it would be easy to do that (move to another school), especially if funding is a consideration. Can’t think of many examples personally. if I was the school, I would be hesitant offering someone who’s already turned down an offer from me before. Perhaps I’m thinking of it too personally! I also did wonder as an outsider how MDS allocation per school is worked out. Ballet is such an expensive hobby and for those who have invested specifically into preparing their kids for auditioning, there must be a significant financial capability and output. I wonder how many students say in WL (and other schools) actually receive (or need) MDS or only need quite a small amount of funding. It’s one thing to say “over 90% of students receive funding for their studies” but another thing how much allocated. I know there have  been numerous FOI requests over the years in relation to MDS and it’s allocation. Even then, I think there’s a lot of discussion on “income” that’s probably not considered on paper. 

Elmhurst and Royal do it differently to Tring. The former two have the most amount of MDS awards for the Y7 cohort and thereafter it really is very hard to get in if you require a full MDS. I was told this by Emma Northmore who put me right when I thought MDS were available to anyone who might need them whenever they applied. My bad, they are not.
 

Of course there are scholarships if a school really wants someone and there is no MDS funding available; but this is still rare.

As I was told these schools are a business.

 

The way Tring do things is for me by far the best way, with an audition for those children who meet the MDS criteria and they know they want really want them. They then compete on a completely level playing field for the award. I love the transparency and openness of this. 
 

A FOI request would give you specifics. 

What I didn’t realise was that the threshold for MDS was just so incredibly high. I would be all for a lower threshold, with more funding available for families on the lower end of incomes to ensure children with talent from low and no income families are better represented. (They are not well represented because ballet is so expensive.)

Don’t get me started on this!!

I apologise for the transgression. 

[Pointeshoesarethedream]

17 minutes ago, NotadanceMa said:

There were 60 children in the final last year years 7-11 (someone auditioning for US place) there were 6 MDS awards across the years.

And they had a physio assessment.

Thanks @NotadanceMare physio, I assume because it was via video last year (iirc) they didn’t have a physio at prelims so needed one at finals. Whereas they did have them at prelims this year so would they be needed again? 
 

6 MDS for 60 children 🙈. I liked my previous research of 10 places for 50 children 😁

 

@Neverdancedjustamumre your point about how much is invested to get them to this point. I was actually thinking about this last night. DD isn’t being prepared for these as such, she is a JA and has good local training but non of this (with the prep for WL prelims aside) is with her auditions in mind. Her school don’t send children to vocational school generally so my ‘keep awake thought’ last night was, how does DD compete against children that are being specifically prepared for this moment! 

[BalletBoysDad]

26 minutes ago, PurplePirouette said:

Thanks so much. I hope your ds is having a brilliant couple of days!

Thank you, he seems to be.  It sounds like there is a lovely friendly vibe amongst the boys, making it a much more pleasurable experience for all I hope.

[Pointeshoesarethedream]

11 minutes ago, NotadanceMa said:

The way Tring do things is for me by far the best way, with an audition for those children who meet the MDS criteria and they know they want really want them. They then compete on a completely level playing field for the award. I love the transparency and openness of this. 

I love this thought and am going to hold onto this regardless of the outcome 😁

[Pointeshoesarethedream]

1 minute ago, BalletBoysDad said:

Thank you, he seems to be.  It sounds like there is a lovely friendly vibe amongst the boys, making it a much more pleasurable experience for all I hope.

That’s so good to hear. 

[tutugirl]

I agree with the former poster who said that a school is more likely to look LESS favourably on a candidate who has previously been offered a place and turned it down . ( if they even remember them at all ! )

 

Of my most recent previous pupils at Tring - 3 were offered MDS straight away ( 2 lower school , 1 Upper )

2 off a waiting list .

 

One was offered a couple of days after the initial letter , the other was offered in the July before the September start date .

 

So never give up if you are on a reserve list .

 

No hard and fast rules either :

1 year 7 boy

1 year 9 boy

2 year 7 girls

1 6th form girl 

 

Physio was previously done at the funding audition.

This appears to have changed .

[Neverdancedjustamum]

27 minutes ago, NotadanceMa said:

Elmhurst and Royal do it differently to Tring. The former two have the most amount of MDS awards for the Y7 cohort and thereafter it really is very hard to get in if you require a full MDS. I was told this by Emma Northmore who put me right when I thought MDS were available to anyone who might need them whenever they applied. My bad, they are not.
 

Of course there are scholarships if a school really wants someone and there is no MDS funding available; but this is still rare.

As I was told these schools are a business.

 

The way Tring do things is for me by far the best way, with an audition for those children who meet the MDS criteria and they know they want really want them. They then compete on a completely level playing field for the award. I love the transparency and openness of this. 
 

A FOI request would give you specifics. 

What I didn’t realise was that the threshold for MDS was just so incredibly high. I would be all for a lower threshold, with more funding available for families on the lower end of incomes to ensure children with talent from low and no income families are better represented. (They are not well represented because ballet is so expensive.)

Don’t get me started on this!!

I apologise for the transgression. 

I’m with you on the lower threshold too. It just seems odd seeing students who might be on MDS who appear to have spent a lot on audition preparation, posting about lavish holidays, expensive dancewear, regular photo shoots - it seems to defeat the whole purpose of finding those who require financial assistance. I also find myself questioning what is included in the calculations - what about families who don’t have income declared in the U.K. but have properties and businesses overseas? Or those who get paid cash for additional jobs? Those who receive significant maintenance from a parent who doesn’t live with the rest of the family anymore? I guess it’s not my business but these are the things that occurred to me before. 
 

Even with Tring I think the only declaration on the application is a tick box indicating if you need funding. I don’t think checks are done before the actual funding audition? I could be wrong as I don’t know, but hypothetically speaking, can I tick that box even if my DC doesn’t need funding just to see if DC will be invited to the funding audition? Or are checks made prior to this to ensure those who are invited to the funding audition are actually only those who need and are eligible for funding? 

[Neverdancedjustamum]

27 minutes ago, SJBallet said:

Thanks @NotadanceMare physio, I assume because it was via video last year (iirc) they didn’t have a physio at prelims so needed one at finals. Whereas they did have them at prelims this year so would they be needed again? 
 

6 MDS for 60 children 🙈. I liked my previous research of 10 places for 50 children 😁

 

@Neverdancedjustamumre your point about how much is invested to get them to this point. I was actually thinking about this last night. DD isn’t being prepared for these as such, she is a JA and has good local training but non of this (with the prep for WL prelims aside) is with her auditions in mind. Her school don’t send children to vocational school generally so my ‘keep awake thought’ last night was, how does DD compete against children that are being specifically prepared for this moment! 

I can totally sympathise with your “keep awake thought” @SJBalletand it’s totally understandable.  Sadly it was this realisation that made me and my DD fall out of love with trying to audition for full time any time soon or at all. Thankfully, she’s still very much in love with dancing but knows she isn’t willing to spend as much time and money as others. I am all for people who still believe raw talent, physique and potential alone will get someone a place at these top schools but I think the reality is that a good deal of preparation is now involved (and a significant amount of money and time). I quietly cheer inside whenever I see someone who seems to have minimal training compared to others get finals etc. as I know how much natural talent and determination and grit they must have to go into these auditions knowing full well they’re against DCs who’ve had hours spent in class, coaching, conditioning (and these days, some even have some mental prep psychology sessions specially for these auditions!). Your DD should just enjoy these moments and not worry about competing as such. She’s already a JA so must already have something natural within her that caught RBS’ eye.

[NotadanceMa]

41 minutes ago, SJBallet said:

Thanks @NotadanceMare physio, I assume because it was via video last year (iirc) they didn’t have a physio at prelims so needed one at finals. Whereas they did have them at prelims this year so would they be needed again? 
 

6 MDS for 60 children 🙈. I liked my previous research of 10 places for 50 children 😁

 

@Neverdancedjustamumre your point about how much is invested to get them to this point. I was actually thinking about this last night. DD isn’t being prepared for these as such, she is a JA and has good local training but non of this (with the prep for WL prelims aside) is with her auditions in mind. Her school don’t send children to vocational school generally so my ‘keep awake thought’ last night was, how does DD compete against children that are being specifically prepared for this moment! 

Last year was an in person final it was amazing according to my child!! Harder though than all other finals done previously. They were auditioning for funding for a Y9 place. 

[tutugirl]

I can’t remember how it worked with Tring finance form for my DS .

I must have ticked the need funding box .

We ended up paying pretty much the same as at his previous vocational school - which is what you’d expect .

We had a lot of forms to complete and proof of earnings to submit .

[NotadanceMa]

16 minutes ago, Neverdancedjustamum said:

I’m with you on the lower threshold too. It just seems odd seeing students who might be on MDS who appear to have spent a lot on audition preparation, posting about lavish holidays, expensive dancewear, regular photo shoots - it seems to defeat the whole purpose of finding those who require financial assistance. I also find myself questioning what is included in the calculations - what about families who don’t have income declared in the U.K. but have properties and businesses overseas? Or those who get paid cash for additional jobs? Those who receive significant maintenance from a parent who doesn’t live with the rest of the family anymore? I guess it’s not my business but these are the things that occurred to me before. 
 

Even with Tring I think the only declaration on the application is a tick box indicating if you need funding. I don’t think checks are done before the actual funding audition? I could be wrong as I don’t know, but hypothetically speaking, can I tick that box even if my DC doesn’t need funding just to see if DC will be invited to the funding audition? Or are checks made prior to this to ensure those who are invited to the funding audition are actually only those who need and are eligible for funding? 

You are right about funding, no checks are done beforehand. I shall speak from first hand experience, we are in the full funding threshold, I am an unpaid carer for my partner. My friends child was invited to MDS also having ticked the funding box and they are in the very top end of the threshold. It does say on the award letters from Tring if you do not need to take the MDS please don’t as there will be another child that needs it.

 

I find it very hard to talk about funding because in my experience on my journey alongside my child since JA Y6 I have met with so much push back from parents. One comment always sticks in my mind when I was talking about funding and without which my child would be nowhere; a mum said, well I have 3 children’s school fees to pay for so where’s the funding for my child??

People often conflate funding with an absence of talent IME, believing that children are given places to fill quotas above other children. My child has worked hard and has talent and potential, but needs funding in order to progress through the system, without it for them talent and potential mean absolutely nothing. Our journey has been a lot of luck and funding applications.

The Royal have an amazing financial assistance system for their associate program once you are in it which allows includes travel and uniforms, without which my child could not just take up their offer, but wouldn’t have been able to afford the associate tracksuit. 
 

It is a contentious subject and probably not for this thread. 

 

Good luck to all re MDS.

[Neverdancedjustamum]

16 minutes ago, NotadanceMa said:

You are right about funding, no checks are done beforehand. I shall speak from first hand experience, we are in the full funding threshold, I am an unpaid carer for my partner. My friends child was invited to MDS also having ticked the funding box and they are in the very top end of the threshold. It does say on the award letters from Tring if you do not need to take the MDS please don’t as there will be another child that needs it.

 

I find it very hard to talk about funding because in my experience on my journey alongside my child since JA Y6 I have met with so much push back from parents. One comment always sticks in my mind when I was talking about funding and without which my child would be nowhere; a mum said, well I have 3 children’s school fees to pay for so where’s the funding for my child??

People often conflate funding with an absence of talent IME, believing that children are given places to fill quotas above other children. My child has worked hard and has talent and potential, but needs funding in order to progress through the system, without it for them talent and potential mean absolutely nothing. Our journey has been a lot of luck and funding applications.

The Royal have an amazing financial assistance system for their associate program once you are in it which allows includes travel and uniforms, without which my child could not just take up their offer, but wouldn’t have been able to afford the associate tracksuit. 
 

It is a contentious subject and probably not for this thread. 

 

Good luck to all re MDS.

@NotadanceMa I can totally understand how this might be contentious, you’re right. However, on the contrary, I actually think the opposite most of the time (personally). I actually believe that those who have funding are very talented indeed and often very natural (there is none of the usual “practised/learned polish” I often spot in hot housed kids). I won’t mention specifics but I remember once having the opportunity to catch snippets of a class in a full time school. Even without a background in dancing, I easily spotted 2 students I guessed were on MDS. My friend confirmed this was the case and added that often you can easily spot these MDS students as they literally shine in classes. This is not a generalisation nor a stereotype but at that specific time and specific place, even I easily spotted these amazing MDS students out of the class.

[BalletBoysDad]

I take back the number of boys at WL finals, assuming it was 26.  After today's 2nd day, my DS seems to think there were 38 in total, and they got split into 2 groups of 18 (2 not present for individual reasons).  So certainly a lot more than was anticipated.

 

 

[SissonneDoublee]

3 hours ago, Neverdancedjustamum said:

Elmhurst and Royal do it differently to Tring. The former two have the most amount of MDS awards for the Y7 cohort and thereafter it really is very hard to get in if you require a full MDS. I was told this by Emma Northmore who put me right when I thought MDS were available to anyone who might need them whenever they applied. My bad, they are not.

When it comes to MDS, any award is ‘full MDS’ because it is awarded on a means tested sliding scale and is the full bursary available to that income bracket at that time, and at the two schools you mention the award is made before the school sees any financial paperwork.

 

There have been several new starters in DD’s class, and all bar those that are overseas students have been awarded MDS. Places become available as students do leave, and the awards are distributed as needed. Given that the two schools you reference are single form entry, the number of available spaces is very limited unless students leave the year group, regardless of any funding required.

 

With regard to the upper cut-off for MDS funding, for many families to pay upwards of £30,000 a year in school fees would be a stretch, even at the upper end of the scale. The way the sliding scale works means that the parental contribution increases greatly as the means allow.
 

This time of year can often get very stressful for parents of children applying for vocational schools, but it is best to focus on the affordability to your own family, rather than being drawn into a ‘we need/ deserve it more’. There are excellent fees calculators on the RBS and Elmhurst websites that show a very close approximation to what you would actually need to contribute.

[Ottobotto]

2 hours ago, BalletBoysDad said:

I take back the number of boys at WL finals, assuming it was 26.  After today's 2nd day, my DS seems to think there were 38 in total, and they got split into 2 groups of 18 (2 not present for individual reasons).  So certainly a lot more than was anticipated.

 

 

Yes we were taken aback by that too! Could some just be auditioning for MAs maybe? Thank goodness that’s one  over 😴....

[Julsgalaxy]

13 minutes ago, Ottobotto said:

Yes we were taken aback by that too! Could some just be auditioning for MAs maybe? Thank goodness that’s one  over 😴....

It was a lot this year , wasn’t it ? I’m also so relieved it’s over …but it sounds like they all had a great time.

I had no idea when applying for Tring that there were so few funding places so as we only have gone for WL or Tring , now I know there’s so few funded places at Tring , I have to accept the very real possibility that DS won’t get be going anywhere next year as we simply can’t afford the full paying offer from Tring 😰 xx 

[Ottobotto]

It’s never over till it’s over 😊. My son knows he cannot go anywhere without funding which is hard but it’s the reality of the situation and I guess if it’s meant to be, it’ll all work out for the best in the end 🤷‍♀️. Stay positive x

[sunrise81]

I am afraid that there will be some young people who appear at the finals for all of ones they make. Despite getting offered places and MDS at WL....  they then go to the finals for the rest, even though they were always going to take their place at WL! We saw it with quite a few during DDs final auditions. 

 

It then appears on their insta bio.....offered places at ............  

 

🤔

[meadowblythe]

Just to offer a counter view (and bear in mind in my day the audition order was different) - we went to all the final auditions as we were making a serious decision on very little contact time with the schools.  And a lot more was said to help inform that decision at the finals than at the earlier rounds.

 

That said we still made totally the wrong choice - and went for the most "prestigious" school   But attending the finals gave more information than having only seen the school once, and certainly wasn't for kudos.

[sunrise81]

That's a good point about seeing them all👍 

 

It was disheartening for DD when auditionees turned up who had been offered WL places and plastered it all over social media (or parents had) about how excited they were ......she began to wonder  what the point was

 

Thankfully she got an offer at the school she wanted anyway!

[BalletBoysDad]

12 hours ago, Ottobotto said:

Yes we were taken aback by that too! Could some just be auditioning for MAs maybe? Thank goodness that’s one  over 😴....

Thank goodness that one’s over indeed 😂 Time for my ds to hang up his audition shoes. Now the agonising wait…. I think if you ticked ‘MAs’ only, you wouldn’t have gone to finals. Though I’d assume a number of boys who don’t get WL places will be amongst those being considered for and offered MA places. Good luck to everyone 🤞

[Neverdancedjustamum]

4 minutes ago, BalletBoysDad said:

Thank goodness that one’s over indeed 😂 Time for my ds to hang up his audition shoes. Now the agonising wait…. I think if you ticked ‘MAs’ only, you wouldn’t have gone to finals. Though I’d assume a number of boys who don’t get WL places will be amongst those being considered for and offered MA places. Good luck to everyone 🤞

I think that’s usually the case. In my DD’s MA class there is a very small minority of students who weren’t JAs previously (off the top of my head I can only think of 3), but all 3 were at WL finals.

[tutugirl]

I hope everyone had a good time at their Tring audition today .

[Ottobotto]

21 minutes ago, tutugirl said:

I hope everyone had a good time at their Tring audition today .

Oh god, have I missed it or is there another one apart from 18th?!!

[Ottobotto]

5 hours ago, BalletBoysDad said:

Thank goodness that one’s over indeed 😂 Time for my ds to hang up his audition shoes. Now the agonising wait…. I think if you ticked ‘MAs’ only, you wouldn’t have gone to finals. Though I’d assume a number of boys who don’t get WL places will be amongst those being considered for and offered MA places. Good luck to everyone 🤞

I thought your DS had other finals auditions 😞?!

[BalletBoysDad]

18 minutes ago, Ottobotto said:

I thought your DS had other finals auditions 😞?!

No, we applied to WL, Paris Opera Ballet, YDA and Tring.  No more auditions for my DS, so time for a much needed rest.  A YDA 'yes' which we are very happy about.

[WhereToNow]

1 hour ago, Ottobotto said:

Oh god, have I missed it or is there another one apart from 18th?!!

Don’t panic! My DD is 18th aswell 😊

[meadowblythe]

7 hours ago, BalletBoysDad said:

Thank goodness that one’s over indeed 😂 Time for my ds to hang up his audition shoes. Now the agonising wait…. I think if you ticked ‘MAs’ only, you wouldn’t have gone to finals. Though I’d assume a number of boys who don’t get WL places will be amongst those being considered for and offered MA places. Good luck to everyone 🤞

Certainly in the past WL places have been offered to students  who only ticked MA.

[Pointeshoesarethedream]

2 hours ago, tutugirl said:

I hope everyone had a good time at their Tring audition today .

Is this an additional pre lim?

[tutugirl]

I presume so .

I am guessing  this is the last one before finals .

[SissonneDoublee]

9 hours ago, BalletBoysDad said:

Thank goodness that one’s over indeed 😂 Time for my ds to hang up his audition shoes. Now the agonising wait…. I think if you ticked ‘MAs’ only, you wouldn’t have gone to finals. Though I’d assume a number of boys who don’t get WL places will be amongst those being considered for and offered MA places. Good luck to everyone 🤞

DD’s friend ticked ‘MAs only’ and was invited to finals. RBS see who they want to see regardless of what was ticked on the form! She still didn’t want full-time training, but was advised by their JA teacher to go, as being seen an additional time would help her chances of a MA place.

[Ottobotto]

Let's hope there's some news from RBS. It seems to have been forever despite it only being a few days 🤣

[MissEmily]

Mark Annear currently has Covid. I don’t know if that may slow things down.