Going Back to ballet continued...

[LinMM]

Could you go along to ballet class and perhaps agree with the teacher that you will stay for as long as you can cope each time.

Eg: you could just do the barre and a bit of stretching and then on another time if feeling stronger stay for a bit of the centre and so on.

 

There was a lady in one of my classes who took about six months to do a whole class and she started with just the barre and then used to leave. At least that way you can keep in touch with the class a bit and getting out of the house can give you a bit of a lift if energy is a bit low.

[2dancersmum]

I hope they soon work out why you are feeling rough Fiz and get you feeling better soon.  I had to have blood tests every couple of weeks over a 3-4 month period a few years ago as they tried to figure out what was wrong with me and I was repeatedly asked if I had taken any vitamin or mineral supplements and requested not to whilst they were doing the tests because the supplements could "mask a deficiency in my system".  I'm no medic but if your blood tests prove to be ongoing, it might be worth bearing that in mind.

[LinMM]

Vitamins can interfere with some sorts of drugs eg warfarin....when my partner had to take this for a while he couldn't take Omega 3 or vitamin A. They looked at the supplements and they were the only two things they said he couldn't take(as well as some food items)

 

If the body has some problems metabolising certain things then no matter how much you take it won't be able to use it.

 

That's why calcium deficiency is so tricky as if the body is short of some other nutrient that helps in metabolising it taking lots of calcium on its own wont help much. Often there is a thyroid problem behind such problems.

On the whole though unless they were actually testing for vitamin deficiency itself taking a supplement shouldn't be a problem and the irony is that if it was a vitamin deficiency they would recommend a supplement anyway!!

Normally with blood tests they will tell you whether it's okay to carry on taking a multivitamin and mostly it is.

[alison]

Sorry to hear this, Fiz, and hope you get better soon.  Blood levels of whatever can be tricky things, and not always so easy to find out.

[Fiz]

I made a very interesting discovery. You probably don't know but I have allergies like crazy. I have been eating a lot of bananas as I have been trying to eat more fruit. My temperature has been going crazy and I have felt hot and exhausted.The last time I ate one I was nearly sick so I have left them alone for the last two days. My temperature and all other symptoms have disappeared. If they are what have been keeping me from my beloved ballet class,I am glad to have discovered it but maddened that they have blighted the last few months!

[2dancersmum]

Lets hope its just the bananas then Fiz.  My DD cannot eat bananas, even though she likes them, as she is always ill afterwards.

 

Lin - as you say normally taking a multivitamin is unlikely to interfere with blood tests - it is tests to do with kidney function where they do want to look at natural levels within the blood of everything.  That was my experience in any case.

[Fiz]

I really hope it is just that, 2dancers! I was going to ask N about going on pointe on Wednesday. I ate a bans half an hour before I left. My temperature shot up and I couldn't even think enough to drive properly! My class is nine miles away so I have to drive there. I can walk to it in Lincoln.

[LinMM]

It's weird isn't it what you can have an allergic reaction to!!

Sorry if its bananas Fiz if you like them too....I really love bananas and often eat before a class.

 

Ive only been allergic to one item so far and that is mussels. I never fancied them anyway but when I did try looked as if I'd spent too long in the sun and then was sick so never again. My partner loves them so we just have to eat different things when they are on the menu!!

[Moomin]

Are you allergic to latex fiz? There is cross sensitivity between that and bananas x

[Fiz]

Yes, I am, Moomin.I have stopped counting the number Of things I react to as it is such bore for people. I just try and avoid things that I know set me off. I live on antihistamines and I have an epi pen too.

[LinMM]

Moomin that sounds fascinating what is the link between bananas and latex!!?

[Moomin]

They contain latex like proteins Lin. It's also avocados and kiwi fruit, may be others I can't remember (not allergic myself). It's a tricky allergy to have as latex can be in so many things in the home; carpet backings, chairs etc so it is quite difficult to avoid

[Moomin]

Not sure if this link will help fiz, there are quite a number on there but you could ask for allergy testing? http://www.m.webmd.com/allergies/latex-allergies?page=7

[Fiz]

I have had extensive private allergy treatment in the past but it is horrendously expensive and needs retesting every few years. I try to manage without going back if I possibly can. It is my own fault as I do know I should not repeatedly eat the same things.

[DavidW]

Every partner should feel differently, DavidW - and the fact that you are aware of this is a huge accomplishment.  I, too, think that having danced for such a short time is quite amazing.

 

I  am wondering........What do you feel when you dance this PDD?  When I saw Nureyev dance this he made me "see" a leopard - he was a leopard stalking its prey.  Though the dance begins and ends with a pose indicating he is of a lower social caste, it is he who is  in control of the space and it is he who is stalking her.  That may not be your "take" on it -- but I would be interested to know while you are dancing this - what is the picture in your head?  Who are you?  What is your message? What are you saying about yourself?  About her?

 

I always found it quite amazing when I danced to a particular picture in my mind, that though I had changed none of the choreography - that image somehow came through and deepened both my enjoyment of the dance, but also managed to convey itself across the footlights.

 

Actually footlights is a misnomer - you don't need them.  Anna Pavlova was happy to dance wherever people would come to see her - from the grandest theater to the most rustic circumstances.  Using her example, I too, never turned down an opportunity to dance under some very trying circumstances - and was happy to do it.

 

And, now, you too join the long history of the ballet at its best - a performing art.

 

Bravo, DavidW!

Thank you for all the kind words Anjuli_Bai! It really means a lot to me and helps keep me motivated!

 

As for what I feel when dancing the Corsaire PdD. I guess I'm approaching it rather differently than Nureyev. I guess I extrapolate those opening and closing poses and try to keep in my mind throughout that I am of lower caste than the ballerina. I am there at her request and for her benefit, and my sole job is to ensure she is safe, and show off her beauty to it's fullest. It's convenient that this didn't call for oodles of confidence and bravado - I'm not that confident in my dancing! (...yet ) 

 

I'm also currently working on an abridged version of La Fille mal Gardee where I'm playing Colas and this has required me to examine the character quite closely. Whilst not as outwardly sure of himself as, say, Basilio in Don Q, Colas is definitely a bit of a cheeky chappy! I'm trying to transfer this into my dancing, adding a little bit of flair to my movements... haven't got the hang of it yet!

 

And I'm definitely happy to perform wherever necessary. I've performed in Hospitals and Nursing Homes, as well as on stage. There's something rather nice about the unconventional venues too - you might have to dance on carpet or in a cramped space, but you can get a real feel for the audiences reaction which can be lovely.

 

And I don't know if I can yet say that when I dance I am truly "performing", but I'm working towards it! Thank you again, for your words

 

P.S. Fiz - hope you start to feel better very soon!

[LinMM]

Fille is one of my favourite ballets! Good luck with that role!! It always looks fun but from the other side of the footlights may be different!

 

I would probably dread anything depending on the use of props though!!

 

Projecting what you are feeling to the audience seems to be an art in itself! Never mind the dancing!

I'm sure you will get there in the end.

[LinMM]

 

Here is a young star in the making.....a bit better if you can understand Spanish!!

 

I just mixed him up on another thread with Cesar Morales who dances with BRB

This is Cesar Corrales anyway!!

[Anjuli_Bai]

DavidW - You have obviouly passed a very important boundary twixt just doing the steps - and thinking about them.  I've known some "great" dancers who never quite realized that all that work on technique is empty without the thinking about what they should convey.

 

I found when I danced in places like a hospital, nursing home, etc., immensely gratifying - and an excellent training ground for learning to deal with unexpected..  I made a habit of checking out the floor previous to dancing on it only to find on more than one occasion that in "anticipation" of "welcoming me" - the floor had been highly waxed!!  Why people feel that one should wax the floor for a dancer - tis a puzzlement!.

 

And then there was the nurse who kept walking right through my dance space as she gave out medication when she could have easily walked around to each patient.

 

And - of fond memory - there was the elderly gentleman when, upon seeing me enter wearing a short tutu - shouted out: "She isn't wearing anything!!"   It was no easy matter suppressing my laughter as I contined on with my "Classical Variation" from Raymonda.

 

But what really touched my heart was, after finishing my performance, I felt a hand gently touching the skirt of the tutu and when I turned around a very elderly lady murmured "I remember going to ballet class."   And, for that moment her eyes lit up and her face was alive - and then it closed up.  Who could  experience that and not be moved?  I rank it as among the most gratifying performances I've ever had the privilege to do. 

 

I wish you many of those, DavidW.

 

When you touch one soul - you touch the world.

[Fiz]

You do write so beautifully, Anjulu.

[LinMM]

Agree about Anjuli those reports about performances in non theatrical places are priceless!

 

Sorry about Cesar Corrales on this thread should have put on what I call Michelle's thread because he executes two beautiful jetes en tournant in his solo for Prix de Lausanne last year.

 

I followed this competition last year and in the general classes and pre final rounds he was one of the dancers who stood out then.

I wish I could get that beautiful second leg height.

In my dreams I think these days.......

But DaveW I think you have much more of a chance!!

[Billyelliott]

Enjoyed watching that anyway!

[LinMM]

Actually Billyelliott Cesar played the title role in a production of Billy Elliott in Canada when he was a student at the National ballet school there!

[LinMM]

Am so pleased....have just heard back from the Rambert free events programme and Ive got everything I asked for but will find original post on this to leave details

[LinMM]

I did two great classes in London this week. One with Richard Ramsey at the Place as part of monthly Chelsea Ballet Masterclass. This was in studio 6 which I think is my favourite studio there. And as usual was just a real delight to do both the barre and centre. It is rather late from 8-9.30pm but worth making the effort to go up to London for......I wouldn't normally envisage doing a class this late...... so a tribute to this teacher that so many do.....and a considerable number not even living in London too.....eg Cambridge!!

 

I also did an LRBS class the next morning so was already a bit tired and nearly deciding to head back to Neros on Clapham High Street just before reached the building but very glad I didn't!!

This class their adult beginners plus but more pre intermediate level really can be quite strenuous as the barre is long with lots of tendus and some very slow DEMI plies which Ive begun to find very helpful if you really use the slow counts down and up so feel Im beginning to use a deeper demi plié now. Attention throughout is given to the use of arms and head and always finishing off each exercise very precisely.....no sloppiness....I always feel Ive really worked hard after this barre which usually lasts for an hour!

However although the class is supposed to be 1 1/2 hours it more usually lasts two hours......so Russian time.....but very good value for money!!

Anyway right at the end of this class just as some of us were thinking most of the hard work was over the teacher decided to do a VERY lively tarantella dance!! SO many hops.....I thought I'd never survive BUT because this was a piece of a real character dance it was just lovely to do.....use of the body and arms etc.......so from somewhere the energy came and then it WAS the end of the class but of course then wanted to carry on doing this dance (not just me) had completely forgotten how knackered I was!!

 

Which leads me to repertoire and whether little experienced dancers should do it!! That is the main classical repertoire.

 

I agree if really are in the first year of ballet then probably not Odettes white or black swan solo!! But a little teacher choreographed piece to demonstrate performance skills would be enjoyable and beneficial......especially to some real ballet music.

But for people of two-three years experience (or those who have danced when younger) I do think adapted pieces of REAL repertoire are inspirational to do......alongside proper classes to learn technique of course.....not instead of!

But learning REAL dances is very rewarding (as shown in tarantella experience above) and keeps in mind what going to ballet classes is really all about.....it is about dancing!!

Nobody....in their right mind....gets a false idea of what it is to be a real professional dancer by doing some repertoire when they havent had years and years of training.... in my opinion anyway (as seemed to be suggested in Etiquette thread)

To the contrary it makes you appreciate the professionals and the professional level of dancing even more as you realise just how difficult the real thing is. Nobody.....in their right mind....believes they are doing it "just like Marianuela" or " Alina" or anything!! We wish!

 

However I do think that Repertoire Workshops could target participants more closely sometimes by stating some minimum or higher level of ballet achievement so that some could be aimed at Advanced plus and be harder and others aimed at lower levels and attempt accessible choreography from the ballet for less experienced.

Repertoire is definitely the icing on the cake for me and it can be done for its own sake with the pretence of an audience just ones fellow classmates and teacher will do!! No big deal is necessary unless you want to join a performing group of course.

[mimi66]

mmm... I can see why people wants to do some classical variations at an early stage (not the length of time) of learning ballet.  I for one used to think that it might be a good way to learn. 

 

At that time, I did not understand why my (then) teacher used to duck the whole question when someone suggested if they could do some watered-down version of famous variations in the class.  She never said anything, but she never obliged, of course.

 

Now after more than a decade I can see why she did not think it was a good idea.  Quite apart from the safety issues, it is counter-productive to one's developement as a ballet dancer.

 

Those enchainements teachers set in the class already contain the element of those variations, and therefore the watered down versions, we were already doing it.  If one is not yet able to 1) pick up the enchainement on the spot 2) reverse to the other side without much difficuly and 3) excecute the enchainement with reasonably technical accuracy and artisitry, then even the watered-down version is too difficult for us.

 

I think i know the real subconcious reason for adults learners (those who did not study ballet as a child) but I shall leave that to some other time.

 

Also I think it is worth remembering that some of the things that enthusiastic beginners say or think are actually rather disrespectful  and sometimes insulting - both to the art of ballet and to those who went through long and hard training mastering their arts.  It is forgiven because they know it happnes with students at an early stage of learning. 

 

I for one was guilty of that - and luckily was duely pardoned (phew).

 

Edited for typo

Edited October 25, 2013 by mimi66

[Moomin]

You learn and hone an entire dance set to lovely music even at pre-primary level. Surely that is the ultimate point of ballet? Dancing steps and enchantments in class is not the same thing. I am really struggling to see why anyone has a problem with this. I know plenty of people who do amdram, have lots of fun, perform to the best of their ability and provide some entertainment for everyone else, there is of course no comparison between that and the RSC, but why does there need to be? I agree with you Lin, it would be helpful to have graded sessions, I would maybe even attempt one myself if they did that!

[mimi66]

Moomin,  I am not anti-performance per se.  In fact, particularly for children and young adult  I think it should be encouraged.

 

I have reservation about attempting to learn classical repertoire too early.  Surly  the pre-primary dance you have mentioned in your post is not classical repertoire, but something choreographed specifically for them?  Sorry if I misunderstood.

 

 

edited for typo

Edited October 25, 2013 by mimi66

[Moomin]

I see your point that the word 'repertoire' is misleading and actually would put me off attending. My point about pre-primary was really that an actual entire dance and performance is taught from a very early stage and that is often lacking in adult classes. I don't really see much difference in my enjoyment and aims and ability to dance compared to when I was a child tbh, both recreational. I would love to don a tutu and learn a simplified version of something or other, perhaps I haven't quite grown up yet! I am under no misapprehension that I'm the next darcey bussell!

[mimi66]

I feel that sometimes the pull towards wanting to do some classical variation, albeit subconsciously, stems from the fact that it is a neat way to avoid these anxieties around the ablity to pick up enchainements quickly in class.

 

In this way (i.e. doing a classical variation or classical repetoire), one reasons, that one can take ones time, perhaps learning it from his/her favourite dancers' video.   Or hopes that the choreography will be shown by the teacher repeatedly, over number of weeks.  Added bonus is that one doesn't have to worry about doing the dreaded left side.

 

Why this is counter-productive to learning ballet,  I refer to Anjuli's post #10 in "The process of learning in adult ballet" thread. http://www.balletcoforum.com/index.php?/topic/4145-the-process-of-learning-in-adult-ballet/

 

" I felt that learning through repetition (if 8 is good then 80 must be better) was a trap of a sort. The student becomes convinced that unless she is able to do many repetitions she cannot learn the step. I am not saying that we didn't repeat things - but always with a slight difference. When this is done from the beginning the body and mind accept new learning more readily."

 

 

Of course, if the dancer is ready for the repetorie work then that is a different story. 

 

Must admit that perhaps I am a bit biased on this issue as I have never done any syllabus work (as in RAD).  

Edited October 25, 2013 by mimi66

[LinMM]

When I am talking about learning repertoire am talking largely about attending workshops not learning things from videos!!

 

You have to be able to pick things up quickly on these workshops just as picking up an enchainement in class. You may have more time to go over a piece you are learning than you do in the class situation of course.

 

The word repertoire can sound rather grand. It can be just learning one small dance say one of the Odalisque dances from Corsaire.

Or "prayer" from Coppelia.

I think it's good that even if not from a real ballet adults get to experience trying to perform a dance..to present..even if just made up by the teacher.

Also there are ballets for children like "Peter and the Wolf" where the technique required is not that of a solo from Swan Lake and its perfectly possible for adults of 2-3 yrs experience to learn bits of this.

This is why I think these workshops should be graded more so the more ambitious repertoire can be taught to more able dancers but repertoire can be found to suit those of lesser ability too.

Of course each adult has their own particular history with ballet and Ive done quite a bit in the past though still would only class myself as working at Intermediate level though can do some advanced steps. To really know whether these workshops are USEFUL (apart from being enjoyable) for more beginners one would have to ask someone who has participated in one what their experience was and did it have any meaning/pleasure for them.

[mimi66]

LinMM,  Perhaps I didn't explain well.   I am aware we are talking about attending workshops. 

 

However I was under the impression that those workshops deal with classical repertoire, and I was thinking about these famous variations, for example, Giselle or Kitri. In that type of situation, some would want "prepare (but in reality learn the steps, rather than getting a feel for the piece)" for the workshop by watching a video. 

 

In one of the classes quite some time ago, when it was decided that we do a adopted version of Kitri's variation  in the centre for a Christmas treat, that's what happened.  Those who learned the steps (as opporsed to watching just to get the feel of the dance) beforehands didn't manage so well the teacher's adoptation, and didn't like the fact she changed it from whatever the video they saw..

 

As I am interested in others' view on the point you have originally raised , I am going to be quiet now,

[Michelle_Richer]

Interesting thread running, but I think its way off beam.

 

Firstly mimi66 comment : .  “If one is not yet able to 1) pick up the enchainement on the spot 2) reverse to the other side without much difficuly and 3) excecute the enchainement with reasonably technical accuracy and artisitry, then even the watered-down version is too difficult for us.”

 

This is an extremely wrong and dangerous assumption to make. I have known girls at Pineapple leave during centre practice, which I believe is associated with difficulty remembering enchainemant. I personally know someone who stopped doing level 3 at ENB because they had trouble remembering enchainements. That I think is extremely sad. I must admit I too have trouble remembering some but I just persevere and refuse to give up. Ones dancing ability should not be compromise on memory, its really not that important, there are ways to work around this.

 

In teaching Salsa we allow for this by repetition and building up combinations to create muscle memory, its extremely successful. But then the strategy is not throw away in memory term, its to utilise that combination or favourite parts of it on the dance floor during social dancing. So it does have a real life application.

 

As for Video’s I use them all the time, firstly for reference in the form of a Classical Ballet Video Dictionary. I also have several formal training video’s including RAD. Never the less I have a whole host of repertoire video from various sources, again for reference and I do use those extensively.

 

If I am to attend a repertoire workshop then I prep myself with familiarity of the scene being taught, not just from one video but from three or four, and if it exists then the Royal Ballet version. And of course I have danced it before the workshop. That now allows me to concentrate on tweaking the technique, and from the teacher weather my interpretation is correct, as sometimes I will inadvertently miss something. Similarly teachers also miss bits, not through deliberate simplification, but they just missed that bit of attention to detail or possible forgot. As they say two heads are better than one. Although the teacher may simplify it, my goal is to dance it to the full standard within my own capability, however like other artists I will create my own version with little differences to account for such things as limited leg extension, utilising the same type of step but on the opposite leg and of course not on full point etc, but I stress no necessarily simplified. I know there will always be bit that a teacher will leave out I guess under health and safety, but the only one I can recall is travelling turns around the room, which I'm currently working on from Giselle.

 

Most teachers operate a dual standard system which Lin is aware of , particularly with City Academy, the more challenging one is for those that are able, and a simplified version for the relative newcomers. So I really don’t think its that essential for a pre-entry level, in any case I guess I would get excluded, but then I put in a lot more effort than most.

 

I may not have had years of experience like many but I do generally a lot more regular ballet classes that concentrate on technique, last term is was at least 12 a week. As for repertoire work, I already have my own small studio with sprung floor, mirrors and barre etc., I hire the hall we use for our local ballet class each week too and when available (Mostly) I boro a studio after class at Pineapple. So I put a hell of a lot into my ballet and in particularly repertoire.

 

I have probably gone on abit about repertoire as its close to my heart, but I also heavily promote it with fliers up in such places as Pineapple and Danceworks, ballet classes I attend and some ballet shop advert boards too and of course this forum.  I'm there to make it happen and I make no apologies for that.

Edited October 25, 2013 by Michelle_Richer

[Thecatsmother]

I would say that the speed and complexity of class work exercises tends to change according to the standard of the class. It would be normal to expect a beginner to do more repetitions of the same step and very short exercises in terms of content so that they can focus on steps, placement, working out their left from right leg and overcoming the initial blocks in terms of learning new steps.

 

As a dancer progresses, it is normal for the length of the exercises and complexity to increase. If this is done at an appropriate pace then there should be a natural progression but it is a bit trial and error to find classes that meet the needs of the individual.

 

It is probably a given that more advanced level classes will cover more steps and at greater speed as dancer's should the be ready to pick exercises up quicker and become a little more self reliant in terms of reversing steps or doing an exercise from the left.

 

I think there is much to be said where possible for trying a range of classes as all probably have something different to offer. If picking up the steps becomes an on-going problem then it is useful to address this with the teacher so that suggestions can be made in order to assist a dancer in getting what they need. As I know only too well from my own career, sometimes what I think I most need is not the key component and this is why feedback is important.