Ticket Agencies, resale sites - and the Royal Opera House

[penelopesimpson]

If there is anybody lurking from Box Office or indeed anyone who can explain why ROH are using ticket agencies, I would be delighted to hear the explanation.

 

I took a look at Viagogo last night who had tickets for all the remaining performances of Woolf Works at incredibly inflated prices, despite the ROH website showing virtually sold out.  At 18.00 tonight you could buy the following:

 

Feb 8 Row F Ampitheatre £108.00

 

Feb 11 Row K Orchestra Stalls £206.

 

These are mark-ups of way over 100%.  Who is making this profit and how are agencies getting the tickets and, more importantly, WHY?

 

Last night the ROH website showed Sleeping Beauty sold out but Viagogo had tickets for 7 of the remaining performances.  Tonight they are showing only Feb 15 and it includes Balcony seats for £206 and Stalls Circle £289

 

I cannot understand why tickets for ballets that are almost certain to sell out are being given to ticket agencies to charge such ludicrous prices for.  This is money that ROH needs, not the wretched Viagogo

[Jan McNulty]

I think what happens is that theatres using ticket agencies allocate blocks of seats to the agencies.  These are not then available from the theatre's own website so the performance may be shown as "sold out" but what is meant is that the theatre's allocation of tickets is sold out.

 

If the agency does not sell all the allocated tickets I think they are returned to the theatre which may be why tickets appear unexpectedly on the website.

 

Some years ago, on the day booking opened, I could not get the seat I wanted for a performance at The Lowry.  On expressing my surprise the box office manager explained that the seat I wanted fell within the block allocated to ticket agencies.  After some jiggery pokery I was able to get the ticket I wanted.  I do not know if the Lowry still follows this practise but I have not had any problems booking my chosen seats since, unless I have left booking very late.

 

When I have, before now, queried why booking agencies have such a big mark up I have always been told that the agency has to make money somehow.  I assume from that the theatre gets the face value and the agency the rest.  With many ATG theatres you can only avoid the fee by booking in person at the theatre - not feasible if you live a couple of hundred miles away.  I eventually gave in and bought an ATG card which means that I do not have to pay the fees and can often get a discount on the tickets.  I grumbled like mad before I gave in and bought one but I have saved at least one hundred pounds per annum for the last 4 years having one.  I still object to the need for one though!

[capybara]

 

Words are beginning to fail me on the subject of the ROH using ticket agencies and the prices charged. It was only 'yesterday' that attempts were made to limit the number of tickets Friends could purchase because of the fear that they were being sold on.There is an inconsistency here which I can't get my head around.

 

I have managed to get tickets for Watson/Osipova but I really feel for fans who haven't been so fortunate.

[alison]

I need to point out once again that Viagogo is a ticket resale site, not an agency.  The purchasers of the tickets decide what price they want to put the tickets at, and hope that some mug will pay them.  If not, the prices drop.  However, I am pretty certain that reselling tickets at a profit must be a breach of the ROH's terms and conditions, so the question is, how are they getting away with it, and is the ROH monitoring the situation?  Are seat numbers being specified?  If so, the ROH can invalidate the ticket - in theory at least.  Row F amphitheatre, for example, could be anything from a good central seat to a somewhat restricted-view seat on the side.  I think Viagogo now does at least list the face value of the ticket before you commit, so if you found out that the row D ticket you were being asked to pay £100 for actually cost £6 you might change your mind.  The trouble is that if the ROH has outsourced ticket sales to agencies presumably they have no record of who has bought what.

 

Penelope hasn't said it as such, but I suspect that she, like me, is wondering whether this profiteering is at least partly responsible for the shortage of tickets available for various Mayerling performances.

[penelopesimpson]

I think what happens is that theatres using ticket agencies allocate blocks of seats to the agencies.  These are not then available from the theatre's own website so the performance may be shown as "sold out" but what is meant is that the theatre's allocation of tickets is sold out.

 

If the agency does not sell all the allocated tickets I think they are returned to the theatre which may be why tickets appear unexpectedly on the website.

 

Some years ago, on the day booking opened, I could not get the seat I wanted for a performance at The Lowry.  On expressing my surprise the box office manager explained that the seat I wanted fell within the block allocated to ticket agencies.  After some jiggery pokery I was able to get the ticket I wanted.  I do not know if the Lowry still follows this practise but I have not had any problems booking my chosen seats since, unless I have left booking very late.

 

When I have, before now, queried why booking agencies have such a big mark up I have always been told that the agency has to make money somehow.  I assume from that the theatre gets the face value and the agency the rest.  With many ATG theatres you can only avoid the fee by booking in person at the theatre - not feasible if you live a couple of hundred miles away.  I eventually gave in and bought an ATG card which means that I do not have to pay the fees and can often get a discount on the tickets.  I grumbled like mad before I gave in and bought one but I have saved at least one hundred pounds per annum for the last 4 years having one.  I still object to the need for one though!

But Janet, my question is WHY?

 

I can see no reason why ROH need to use ticket agencies, especially when booking has only just opened.  Viagogo had Mayerling tickets on the same day that booking opened to the General Public.  Why is this necessary?  Woolf Works has been a sellout so why use agencies?  Surely they should be there as seller of last resort rather than anything else.  I think this whole thing about using agencies is steeped in mystery and I would like to know what is going on.

[alison]

I'm beginning to think that the £4 markup plus transaction fee charged by SEE tickets may not be so bad

[penelopesimpson]

I need to point out once again that Viagogo is a ticket resale site, not an agency.  The purchasers of the tickets decide what price they want to put the tickets at, and hope that some mug will pay them.  If not, the prices drop.  However, I am pretty certain that reselling tickets at a profit must be a breach of the ROH's terms and conditions, so the question is, how are they getting away with it, and is the ROH monitoring the situation?  Are seat numbers being specified?  If so, the ROH can invalidate the ticket - in theory at least.  Row F amphitheatre, for example, could be anything from a good central seat to a somewhat restricted-view seat on the side.  I think Viagogo now does at least list the face value of the ticket before you commit, so if you found out that the row D ticket you were being asked to pay £100 for actually cost £6 you might change your mind.  The trouble is that if the ROH has outsourced ticket sales to agencies presumably they have no record of who has bought what.

 

Penelope hasn't said it as such, but I suspect that she, like me, is wondering whether this profiteering is at least partly responsible for the shortage of tickets available for various Mayerling performances.

Yes Janet, I am wondering about that although there are many layers to this mystery. I have asked Box Office why Mayerling was so difficult to get hold off and they became incredibly defensive which was odd because usually I find them friendly and helpful.  If ROH are not giving an allocation to Viagogo, then we can only assume that this agency is getting its supply from  individual patrons.  That in turn means they must be Friends of ROH as, in the case of Mayerling, tickets were available on the same day as booking opened.  As the seat numbers are given, it would surely be a comparatively easy exercise to track down the original buyer of these tickets and then have them removed from Friends.  Or is this a handy little sideline that allows people who are Friends to subsidise their membership?

 

As I am not a friend, I do not know how many tickets you are allowed to buy per performance, but something is badly askew here.

[alison]

As I have said already, Viagogo are *not* an agency.

 

And as I quoted a couple of months back in another thread:

 

"From the ROH site:

 

"Are there any other authorized ticket vendors?

The following ticket outlets are the only agents used by the ROH:

• Albemarle
• Abbey Box Office
• Theatre People (Encore Tickets)
• Discount Theatre (Encore Tickets)
• Lashmars
• Love Theatre
• See Tickets
• Ticketmaster

All other ticket outlets, agents and websites are not authorized to sell ROH tickets. Any tickets bought through other outlets are invalid and may be forgeries. Find out more about the importance of using authorized vendors."  (The last bit of bolding is mine)

[theother51]

Touts will become friends if they think the membership fee is worth it for the profit they will make on reselling ticked on viagogo.

 

When Hamilton went on sale recently it was paperless ticketing with a limit of 4 in the Presale & 6 in the general sale. The person booking the tickets has to attend the performance & take photo ID.

 

IT has helped but tickets are still appearing on viagogo. The touts are buying 4 tickets then putting 3 up for sale. They will accompany the buyers to the theatre in person!

 

So nothing is foolproof.

[alison]

Touts will become friends if they think the membership fee is worth it for the profit they will make on reselling ticked on viagogo.

 

That thought had occurred to me.  And of course it is.  Wonder if anyone does a correlation of Friends who attend rehearsals and so on and those who don't.  That's the trouble when you have so many Friends, of course.

 

I'm sitting here fantasising about the ROH setting up a "shop a tout" confidential phone line, along the lines of Crimestoppers

[Fonty]

Yes Janet, I am wondering about that although there are many layers to this mystery. I have asked Box Office why Mayerling was so difficult to get hold off and they became incredibly defensive which was odd because usually I find them friendly and helpful.  

 

The people in the Box Office have probably got no idea.  I think that people might have to make a formal request for an explanation to someone higher up the chain.  This sounds outrageous to me.  

Edited February 3, 2017 by Fonty

[ninamargaret]

I am new to the Forum and enjoy it immensely. My ballet going goes back to the days of Festival Ballet,although for personal reasons I didn't attend performances for quite a long period . I'm now catching up and thoroughly enjoying myself.

 

Three years ago I became a Friend of Covent Garden, at the lowest level to try and,ensure I could get seats. I like Stalls Circle and can always get these. However, when I logged in at 0900 on the first day of booking their were almost no seats left for the Watson performances of Mayerling. Just a few odd seats, and quite a bit of amphi. I managed to get a,slightly poor seat, then proceeded to book for other Mayerling casts with no difficulty.

 

The question is - where have all these keen ballet lovers been hiding? There are no restrictions on the number of seats purchased, although performances like the forthcoming Otello allow a maximum of four. As far as the Viagogo fiasco is concerned,the Opera House should be ashamed of itself, especially as it particularly names them as being an offender.

The

[alison]

Welcome to the forum, ninamargaret, and thank you for your contribution.  Perhaps on public booking we are usually spoiled by Friends not necessarily wanting to claim their entire allocation?

 

Incidentally, not only Watson and Osipova may be main draws, but also it will be Yanowsky's final performances in a full-length work, I think, so that may have attracted people.

[Jacqueline]

Yanowsky is the main attraction for me.

I do like the idea of a shop a tout 'phone line. Perhaps in a broom cupboard with just a small table, a note pad and pen, an ash tray and somebody with a growlly voice to answer phone. Confidentiality almost guaranteed of course!

[Fonty]

You mean someone like a George Smiley, Jacqueline?  Doing a couple of days a week, because he finds retirement boring?  I am sure he would be able to spot a tout just by the way he walks!

 

Edited to add that for visiting Russian companies, surely Moscow rules would have to apply?

Edited February 3, 2017 by Fonty

[Ian Macmillan]

There has just been a piece on BBC4 (You and Yours) about Viagogo and tickets for "Hamilton."  There was nobody with a good experience.  A commentator was brought in and he reckoned anyone with such tickets was likely to be refused entry.

[Jacqueline]

You mean someone like a George Smiley, Jacqueline?  Doing a couple of days a week, because he finds retirement boring?  I am sure he would be able to spot a tout just by the way he walks!

 

Edited to add that for visiting Russian companies, surely Moscow rules would have to apply?

Yes, that sort of thing, notes passed under doors, people whispering on corners. Maybe not a broom cupboard if the one featured in Apple Tree Yard is representative. Could be crowded and too noisy to hear what people are saying on the 'phone! I think the job might appeal to a retired traffic warden. They have exceptional patience, observational skills, they are used to unpleasantness, tall stories and they already have their own notebook and pen.

[penelopesimpson]

I am new to the Forum and enjoy it immensely. My ballet going goes back to the days of Festival Ballet,although for personal reasons I didn't attend performances for quite a long period . I'm now catching up and thoroughly enjoying myself.

 

Three years ago I became a Friend of Covent Garden, at the lowest level to try and,ensure I could get seats. I like Stalls Circle and can always get these. However, when I logged in at 0900 on the first day of booking their were almost no seats left for the Watson performances of Mayerling. Just a few odd seats, and quite a bit of amphi. I managed to get a,slightly poor seat, then proceeded to book for other Mayerling casts with no difficulty.

 

The question is - where have all these keen ballet lovers been hiding? There are no restrictions on the number of seats purchased, although performances like the forthcoming Otello allow a maximum of four. As far as the Viagogo fiasco is concerned,the Opera House should be ashamed of itself, especially as it particularly names them as being an offender.

The

Hello to you!

 

I also usually end up in Stalls Circle although Grand Tier is my top choice - when I can run to it.  Couldn't believe my eyes when I saw the Mayerling situation so its interesting to know that as a friend you had a similar experience.  Something has happened and I wish we could be told what.  I do think it was something of an error to allocate the entire Ampitheatre to Students when there are only three performances of this cast.

[penelopesimpson]

Yanowsky is the main attraction for me.

I do like the idea of a shop a tout 'phone line. Perhaps in a broom cupboard with just a small table, a note pad and pen, an ash tray and somebody with a growlly voice to answer phone. Confidentiality almost guaranteed of course!

I'll do it for free!

[Sim]

Yanowsky is the main attraction for me.

I do like the idea of a shop a tout 'phone line. Perhaps in a broom cupboard with just a small table, a note pad and pen, an ash tray and somebody with a growlly voice to answer phone. Confidentiality almost guaranteed of course!

Sounds like a Dashiell Hammett/Humphrey Bogart movie!! 

[Blossom]

I have friends membership and logged in on the first morning to buy tickets for Mayerling as due to other commitments, I only had the option of 1 or 2 dates. I waited till after work to actually book and seats were almost all booked out, with some odd single tickets in the stalls being available then pretty much nothing else but the far amphi. That's for Soares/Cuthbertson. I have never seen tickets move so quickly in what was essentially 8 hours. 

 

i have just checked on the site as I know the number of tickets you can book with membership is relatively limited and this is what it says:-

Advance booking ahead of the public - you can purchase between one and four tickets for most productions and sometimes up to six. However, the number will occasionally be restricted to two tickets for productions where there is exceptional demand.

 

This is the same at all levels of Friends membership, so for so many tickets to disappear so quickly when performances are so highly sought after and therefore a max of 2 tickets per booking, is this something which a 3rd party could really get away with, or was this a proactive move by the ROH? Can't be a 'robot' sale given it was friends dates...

[Coated]

I get that people are disappointed about missing out on the cast they want to see, or at least a decent seat but I really don't think that there is anything dodgy on a large scale about these performances booking up very fast. Mayerling is popular, it's possibly Watsons last outing. People want tickets. One missing amphi means there are even less tickets available and a fair amount of people will end up disappointed.

 

Yerma booked out at the Young Vic, Angels in America was a bun fight at the NT, the Almeida's Hamlet tickets went like hot cakes. Other plays at those theatres are still easily available. All of those plays will show up overpriced on resale sites. Until someone passes a law to close down those sites (doesn't look likely), popular tickets will appear on them.

[ninamargaret]

Sure you're right, Coated. Of course, the problem with ballet is that we don't get the luxury of multiple performances as theatre audiences do, and eve. Then getting tickets for some productions is well near impossible. I believe the last Ring cycles at the ROH sold out more or less as soon as booking opened to the higher level of Friends. It's a bit like the Fonteyn/Nureyev days when queues would stretch for miles.