Julie 2 Milner

hope this is the arsenal one.

Recently here my football team, Arsenal, were used in an advert with, I think, ENB dancers. Very funny.

I think for the company itself POB auditions once a year in early July. This is way later than other companies. Re the summer school most English schools are happy to allow students to have time off for something like this rather than just a family holiday. I'm sure it will be a great experience for anyone who goes to the summer school.

Bloch make them I think. Martin always used them for contemporary.

Congratulations.xx

I heard Marius singing on the radio and just didn't like it. Until then I was going to go but it really put me off.

Yes some do come for the last year though often they have been at other schools previously. A school gives an AD director something to go on. If a private teacher was well known that is good but remember the vast majority of students will be auditioning abroad in fron of ADs who have never heard of some of our schools let alone individual teachers. As I said a major worry is that individual training just can't give the breadth that a school does. Infact I'd say this is one of the main areas where big differences are noticeable when one starts vocational at 16. Martin was the only senior boy in his local school. He had done partnering for shows etc but not on a weekly basis. For anything we do in life where we trained has a bearing. What uni, what hospital one trained at, what vet school, accountancy etc. There will always be those who succeed by alternative routes but it is hard.

This is an almost impossible route. I say almost because there are a couple who have sort of done this. Melissa Hamilton did go to Elmhurst but it didn't go well. She then had private tuition from Masha Mukhamedov in Greece and the rest as they say, is history. But boy what a tough and lonely route I should think. I think Lauretta Summerscales was non vocational til quite late but she did train somewhere I think. You would need an exceptional teacher and it would be almost impossible to get the pas de deux training. Much of early dancing is being part of a group. It doen't matter how brilliant you are if you cannot dance with a group. How would she do school work? The trouble is when you go for auditions where you trained does matter. There are totally open auditions but many companies use where you trained as a basis for the offer of an audition. Sometimes if you have a famous private teacher that will work but that isn't common. Is it just ballet because training for contemporary is more normal at 1? Would that be an option? To be honest I wouldn't think private will work. You just can't get the variety. Melissa Hamilton is a very individual case. I know schools do miss things but if your daughter was that exceptional one of the schools would surely pick it up. I don't mean to be harsh but go back to the point that for every corps palce there are probably dozens of dnacers who could do the job as well as the one who got the contract. those dozens have had 3 years training at senior level to get to the position of auditioning. Most auditions require training at a recognized institution. Of course your daughter could reapply next year and maybe a year will have made the difference. But does she not still have 2 auditions to go? As I said before there are excellent training schools abroad. The EU ones work out great value too and I'm sure someone on this forum is in the USA.

I know how you feel. My son too was non vocational until 6th form. Just went to a local school. Interestingly in our day (he left elmhurst in 2009) anyone auditioning from White lodge was almost guaranteed a place. But the then head was ex WL teacher herself. At his first audition he was the only one not from WL! In an audition it is potential that is looked for. So conformity, flexibility, height, size etc are all factored in. In what happens in an audition artistry is hard to judge. Everyone can point you to Melissa Hamilton. Taken into Elmhurst but had a terrible time. They just didn't rate her. Now look at her huge success. It is certainly not necessary to have been vocational since year 7 but it is harder. In my son's year I think 2 (boys) were non vocational until 6th form. It is hard when they get there too as some teachers really do look down on them. But again this is what forms you as a dancer. Not sure I how many girls. I know of at least 2. The other interesting thing is 3 years after graduation how many are still dancing. The boys most in a greater or lesser capacity. Some big companies and some small. The girls I do know of quite a few who never had any professional success. Some gave up almost immediately, some kept trying and injury played a part in at least 2 . I only say this to show that the first audition rejection is a very small part of the future. The schools need to be tough because trust me the most depressing aspect of this whole business is the schools who take on people all will never make it professionally. Parents pay vast sums for very little. We may not understnad their reasoning but the schools do have a duty to not waste peoples time. The heartache for those who have gone through vocational and never get a job because they simply aren't good enough is tragic. The ballet world is blessed with so many talented youngsters. If your daughter gets no offers then a sit down and honest rethink may be needed. But one rejection really is nothing. Very few are accepted by all their audition schools. Final point is have you considered training in Europe. The German schools are fantastic as is The Vienna State Ballet School. There are other options . It is the biggest shock to many to realise just what talent is out there and infact one negative of being non vocational until 16 is that in their world they are "big fish". Sadly some nasty teachers use this once they do get to vocational but it is true . Vocational is a steep learning curve that takes guts passion and acceptance that life just isn't fair. Also many actually do not have a great time at vocational schools but survive to have great success. good luck at the other auditions.

It is so tough . Was she applying for the sixth form? What other schools is she applying to? Just because Elsmhurst have decided she isn't for them does not mean Central, ENB, Northern Ballet School, Hammond, Tring etc will feel the same. Have you spoken to her RB Associate teacher? Did she think she had done a good audition? I know my son came out of one saying he was rubbish just seemed to lose the ability to dance. Needless to say he didn't get a second audition for that one. Sometimes a dance teacher can get more info from the school. But try to keep positive. To be brutally honest this is the toughest business and they have to get used to so much rejection. For schools for companies. Very few sail through like the Vadim's of this world. It does make them stronger and they have to be very determined to keep going. Again being brutal in many respects exam results etc actually do mean very little. I know that sounds horrid and it took me a long time to realise that . For the schools they are just an indicator of possible ability and will be what helped get the auditon in the first place. The sad truth is there are so many talented children around. But if your daughter really wants to do this and you really think she does have the ability then don't give up. Talk to some other schools. The school Martin did not get the second audition for at the time he was very upset about but, a year later, everyone he knew who had got into the school was assessed out and that left them in a very tricky position. Good luck to your all and we really do understand what a tough tough time it is.

I used to worry so much. Much more than was warranted. :-)

This is so difficult and causes so much heartache. Some schools really object to students going elsewhere and even refuse to allow them. I was always very upfront and regretted being so sometimes. I got a bit of leeway having a boy as most teachers accepted that I might need to look at more than one school but it was never pleasant. I found it the hardest thing to deal with teachers who were so dictatorial. When we did change schools completely we did have one unpleasant time but we had to do what was best. It drove my husband crackers as he felt that the schools offer a service and thus need to accept that peoples needs may not be dealt with in one palce. Or indeed sometimes one has to move for progression. Good luck.

tutugood i honestly wonder why you are so upset at a differing view. Everyone on this forum has to a greater or lesser extent a knowledge of ballet. Some have danced themselves, some have children at schools and some have children who have now progressed in to the profession. My concern is being uncritical because of who someone is and not not judging on the performance on the day. I have an experience when I saw Carlos Acosta dance. The first time, at Sadlers Wells I thought he and the whole show were outstanding. A year or so later I saw him at The Coliseum and was so disappointed. Felt he was just there for the money. For me the whole programme lacked feeling. My son (then training , now professional) and I were discussing our feelings, he too was less than overwhelmed, on the way back to the station. We were verbally attacked my a lady saying how dare we criticise the great Carlos. My son was stunned and said to me was the lady judging what she'd seen or genuinely felt Carlos could do no wrong. Not a view any professional holds. They know they have good and bad days. To insult someone by saying their view must be through "ignorance of the art" is I feel very offensive. Neither yours, mine nor Bankcrupt mums' opinion is any more or less valid. Maybe not knowing a particular dancer well gives one a clearer view of the performance given. No expectaions etc. Making something look easy is not enough. Any competent performer in any genre should do that. Nor are any views anti ballet. It is always great to see variety. Some of the street dancers are amazing. I do find it incredibly sad and frustrating that any opinion differing from your own is deemed to be "wrong" and to have no worth as it is through "ignorance." I would never pretend to be as knowledgeable as many on here but over the last few years I have seen much ballet with a variety of companies. Some I've been overwhelmed by and some very disappointed. Some I have thought the corps excellent but the soloists etc lacking committment. I judge every performance on what I see in front of me and try not to have any preconceived notions. I also refuse to accept that people don't have good or bad days and I only have to listen to my own son critique his own and others performances to know all good dancers are far harder on themselves than we will ever be. I don't think anyone has said they felt the performance bad just some do not feel it was what it could be.Which would of course not be surprising as the format is so different. Such a short time to show one's talent and always less "dramatic" than a group. Surely that is the nature of performance? One man's meat etc.

I don't watch the show so have just watched the clip. To be honest as I do not know of him (yes my ignorance I'm sure) I would not have known he was where he is if you see what I mean. I'm being honest as to how I viewed it on the small You tube clip but I would never have guessed he was a soloist with a large ballet company. Obviously he is restricted by space and time but I wasn't overwhelmed at all. Years ago on "So You Think You Can Dance"in America a member of the corps from one of the large American companies was in the show. He was amazing. I think he came second. Mind you the standard of the US "SYTYCD" has always been very high. I think we can all judge what we thought of the performance and everyones opinion is valid. As indeed it is when one sees a ballet and some love it and some are not impressed. No-one has the monopoly on being "right" . Being so denigrating because an opinion differs from ones own is actually rather unpleasant. People are not necessarily ignorant because they do not agree with you. Anyway this isn't a show I enjoy though I am always impressed by Kimberley.

This really is terrible news. On the news in the UK last night there were clips from Sergei himself and a couple of different people from the Bolshoi. One a dancer and one admin I think. The admin lady was saying that everytime he made a decision he had complaints . She def seemed to be giving it the spin of disgruntled and jealous.The dancer seemed shocked but.... I think it is terrible to say this is the way the theatre is all over. We all know the terrible jealousies that can and do exist in a company. We also know that people can behave very badly but this is a thought out action designed to cause extreme harm. The former director certainly has a point that because of the continual competition for parts the jealousies within a company can be dreadful and certainly some companies seem more harmonious than others but I think we should be very careful of any acceptance that this sort of thing can happen because of the sort of world the theatre is. I'm very ignorant about The Bolshoi, infact all dancing in Russia but this attack is horriffic.

Katherine I am hoping to. I'm out next month though actually Martin isn't dancing. So I must decide about April. You are doing a tour aren't you?

Vienna, the opera house is wonderful. The city is small enough to be very accessible. Munich, both the National Theatre and The Prinzregenten are lovely. The Prinzregenten is the smaller of the 2. Munich again is a small city. Very easy transport links and a fab ballet company. ( For sake of honesty I should say I'm biased as my son dances there. He also was an apprentice in Vienna). Brtaislava. A lovely little city. I have never seen the company dance but I believe it is good. Indeed many British graduates have contracts there. There are also wonderful castles to see. Both Vienna and Munich have Christmas markets.

Good luck to those undertaking auditions. I know Munich is on Sunday. Hope the weather doesn't ruin peoples' plans. Always the way. At least one audition is scuppered by weather. It isn't just UK airports who suffer.:-)

Also those who take jobs abroad vary in salary hugely. Some of the smaller company pay very very little. I do know that as an apprentice with Vienna State Ballet my son earned as much as those on full corps salaries in Estonia and Slovakia. Now in Munich pay is good enough but living in Germany so expensive. Also those new to some companies need to check their contracts very carefully as in some Eastern European it is common to expect the dancers to also do hostess/host duties i.e meet and greet. Apprentice contracts need care. Not all companies pay. Some pay per performance etc. It really is a minefield. It is certainly true though noone in their right mind would do it for the money.:-)

They are amazing. Saw them last year and really enjoyed it. A true fusion of dance styles. The music may prove a tad loud for some but I loved it. So did my 9 year old niece.

My worry is that for me it will be a "Chigago". I love Chigago musical and hated the film. When I voiced this opinion I was told by someone I worked with that I was ridiculous and obviously didn't understand musicals!!! I love Les Mis and so am a little hesitant. I may wait for the DVD. Re Hugh Jackman he is so from a musical background. Oklahoma, The Boy from Oz. He really is one of lifes all rounders. He I would like to see (I do like Xmen too.lol) but Russell Crowe is a least favourite actor. I have heard Marius on the radio and wasn't keen. But I'm probably one of these people determined it will not be as good as the stage.lol

Remember years ago we were very excited on Strictly vt to see Gloria Hunniford and I think Anton rehearsing at the place Martin's dance school used in Sevenoaks. Gloria lives in Sevenoaks as does Anton's mum. Sadly they never did it when the children were there.

You poor thing how horrid for you. Do hope you get a happy ending.x

Ticket booked!

Tun Wells is in my diary. Just need to check i won't be in munich then I'll get my ticket.