Julie 2 Milner

Angela don't worry i knew. Martin won't be one of the birds in the bowels when I go as I believe this will mainly be the Junior Company. I think he is doing that when the Junior company aren't available. It will be fascinating to go undergound:-)

Martin did them 2 years running. They are in English, run by Daria Klimentova and her husband. Can do one or two weeks and the faculty may be slightly different week to week. Accomodation is fine and everyone seems to have a great time. Obviously a while since Martin went but Maina Gielgud taught as did Christopher Hampson. Elmhurst used to have a scholarship to it i'm sure. Well they did definitely. They are from 16 up and to give you an idea on one occassion one person had to leave as had been offered a company contract. So the standard is good and serious but as i said fun. I'd have no hesitation in recommending them with the proviso that Martin has now been professional for 4 years so it is 5 years since he went.

Ah i already knew. Martin told me. Think I have one of the later tickets so the theatre will be quite full I expect as it is sold out. I am really looking forward to it. For those who like Dr Who the National Theatre in Munich is quite scary (in a fun way) as it has these massive angels. Dr Who had some very scarey episodes about Weeping Angels and it was the first thing I noticed the first time I went. Fortunately Martin is also a Dr Who fan so when the first thing I said was "Don't Blink" he fully understood.lol

Good luck for the audition tomorrow.

Really looking forward to it and an added bonus that Martin is dancing which I didn't think was the case.

No you really can't . Semi professional footballers often don't get paid much at all. Apart from the top flight, footballers do not earn astronomical amounts. So Premiership, (ridiculous sums for some) championship and maybe 1st division. The difference is even The Premiership ballet dancers may well not ever earn huge amounts. The Darcy's etc are rare. For them money is to be made from endorsement etc but ballet is not a high paid profession. Not in the UK anyway. Of course as well what is ok for a single corps de ballet member is not so hot for same person with new baby. But we have discussed pay before. No-one goes into it for the cash.

Trip to Munich coming up to see "Migratory Birds". This is a piece by Jiří Kylián and includes, as a precursor to the performance, a trip through the bowels of the National Theatre where various "birds" are tucked in corners etc. Hopefully this is a link http://www.bayerische.staatsoper.de/922-ZG9tPWRvbTImaWQ9MTU2MyZsPWVu-~spielplan~ballett~veranstaltungen~vorstellung.html

I know the schools will often audtion 17 year olds and do know of someone who went to ENB after her As levels. Also some overeseas students don't have to do all the academics. Elmhurst certainly were happy for that a few years back. Some girls/boy did have English lessons though I know that won't be needed in your case afab. Not quite sure how Central works because they do a degree not diploma. ENB didn't offer A levels not sure if they do now. There is actually quite a bit of studying for the diploma which many of the foreign students found was quite enough to cope with alongside dancing. To my knowledge though all the schools do finish with an academic qualification.

You do need a frank teacher. Martin's last teacher was brilliant. Said it how she saw it. Sometimes brutally saw. lol One of the best lines as well was at the Wells Summer School. Martin was saying goodbye to everyone. He'd had a great time, won something. Gary Avis shook hands said nice stuff then said "But for Gods sake point your bloody toes. Lazy feet".

Don't know exact figures at all but I know categorically that having done year 7-11 does not guarantee a place in 6th form. One advantage will be they know the student so if they are having an "off day" they are able to see beyond it. But so many bemoan the fact that they don't get automatic entry to 6th form. At my son's elmhurst auditon every other boy was White Lodge who had not got into 6th form. In his intake the make up was, 1 hammond, 2 non vocational (my son being one), 4 Elmhurst, 2 or 3 white lodge and one Japan. I think this is correct but this is a few years back. But it needs to be remembered that Elmhurst was in its early days in Birmingham so many of the lower school were actually from Camberly and therefore possibly more MT orientated. Others more recent will I'm sure have more up to date info.

Do you live near London? Central do an associate scheme on a Saturday. There are lots of great summer schools about. Yorkshire Semminars , Royal Ballet, Ballet West I think. I think you may be too young for Prague Masterclasses run by Daria Klimentova (ENB) . A very nice summer school is Sussex Summer School in Forest Row (East Sussex). they do ballet, jazz contemporary. Do you buy Dancing Times and or Dance Europe as they do now detail some summer schools. Good luck

Eloise I thought that link was excellent. Should be given to all dancers when they start 6th form.

No that is exactly what I meant. Depressing in so far as people seem to find this the hardest thing to accept. Even harder that festival results etc hold no weight at all . RAD exams too. Schools interest is what they see on the day and that is right. I always said to my son his achievements were of use to him to show him his progression but that schools didn't give a monkeys and therefore it was up to him at every audition for schools, then companies to perform on the day to the best of his ability because that is all he would be judged on. I feel maybe in this discussion I've come across as a bit harsh and banging on with the mantra that it is a tough life as a dancer. Also that I don't have much sympathy. Of course i'm sympathetic but I've just seen it so much. Unrealistic expectations. The biggest jump is from a great everyday dancer to a serious training dancer and it isn't a jump everyone will make for so so many reasons. In most things in life you are only ever as good as your last performance.

I think the SA thing is interesting. In Martin's year only one even got through to the second audition and he didn't get upper school. The boys were not taught by a RBS teacher. He admitted he had no idea what the RBUpper school were looking for. Any interaction I had with RBS made me feel they deemed the associate scheme very seperate and cynically I did wonder if it was fulfilling some outreach objective. Don't get me wrong. It is a great thing to have on your CV for future company auditions but I think we parents give it more weight than it holds. Again depressing as it is at upper school auditions they seem to be overwhelmingly disinterested in so much of what the dancer has already achieved. TBH it is similar to so many sports. Its what you do on the day that counts. I really don't mean to cast such a negative shadow but it cannot be overstressed how tough it all is. Not sure I understand the "self serving" comment made earlier however.

Obviously I do not wish to discuss individuals but as a general overview.... the school did nothing esp to the most talented. Def a case of putting up with them for their perceived potential. I think most are still dancing. I'm sure pretty quickly in a company they'd have learnt what's what. It's a shock isn't it starting in the corps. It's like when you start senior school you go from being the big wigs in junior school to the lowest of the low:-) I should say there was one teacher who would not put up with it. A magnificent teacher. Tough as they come but fair, very fair. Told you if you were rubbish but praised if deserved. Sadly he was gone before too long. I think for me was if a teacher didn't face up to behaviour did they really care? You need a teacher to care enough to get cross. Anyway bit off topic now. I'm sure every school has issues . Here and abroad.But if i was looking at schools now I would consider abroad too, though undoubtably being in the UK is much easier.

It is a top company. I saw them here a few years ago and I was so impressed by the depth of ability through the company. The corps was the best I'd seen, yes in my humble better than the then RB (this was when Stuttgart came to the Coliseum). Infact in many ways seeing this company with my son showed him that companies abroad were equally as good as our own.

That is interesting. He ceratinly did audition. Martin did at least one open audition there. But, thinking about, I haven't seen one for a couple of years. Wonder how many Neumeier takes? (Hamburg) The Cranko school does have a great reputation doesn't it? Stuttgart is apparently a great city too.

afab that is it exactly. You have hit the nail on the head! That was what was so dispiriting for our vocational experience. If students are disruptive, with no sanctions it is very difficult for the other students. During our time the classes weren't working really hard.

I would say though that the schools in Europe do not neccessarily feed to the companies anymore than the schools here. The only person I know at Cranko did not get into Stuttgart same in Hamburg.

Berlin also has a top class English taught uni. My son chose Dublin for family reasons but boy has it been so much cheaper than his other first choice UCL (London). Indeed a few weeks after starting we got a refund as their computer system had charged incorrectly so it was even cheaper. Again Trinity is a great uni and Dublin a wonderful city.

You have to remember our experience of vocational school was when said was wasn't functioning brilliantly. Changes of AD, teachers not supported and some plain bullying teachers. The behaviour of many students was poor. Swearing at teachers with no sanctions etc. I think what my son saw was children in Vienna who appreciated being where they were. Teachers expected them to work hard and they did not get away with it if they didn't. Now obviously he only saw a snapshot but he was impressed. I think too a real problem in his UK school was that those there felt some sort of god given right to get in to top companies. It was shocking how derogatory many were about some of the smaller companies. Though interestingly that changed when it was realised how hard finding a company, any company is. I have a jaded view of his training. The school was in a mess esp in his graduation year, offering little help or encouragement to those auditioning. I'm sure that has all changed now. I'm afraid I would also disagree that all the schools offer a universal high standard. A class is only as good as that particular teacher at that particular time. But I do think many do offer a high standard. It is a very strong view of mine that many train who will never work. Also I'm afraid just because someone has done lower school does not mean they should continue and will succeed. The gov't only has a certain pot of money and surely that must be used towards those who have the best chance of working. In many ways that was why the old DaDa was so good because income wasn't a factor unlike the MDS. Tulip I'm not sure why the fees are so much less but their Uni fees are too. So i guess it must be subsidy. The main trouble is 16 is still young for many to be going abroad. But many do cope. I'm also not sure what the assessment situation is. Also one has to think about other qualifications. Training for a future career in the arts is a nightmare and it is why I feel it is vital for teachers and parents to be honest about why they are continuing and what prospects are. Total honesty is needed. Sometimes wanting something just isn't enough. Sorry if this is a bit muddled and it is of course only one view. But i think Europe has alot to offer. Might as well take advantage whilst we are still in it.lol

We found that many of the foreign students were non EU at elmhurst. Large Japanese contingent. The schools that are the equivilent of Elmhurst RBS and ENB are as hard if not harder to get in to. But they are so much cheaper. The standard of teaching is very high. The students are expected to be very dedicated and work very hard. I know when my son was an apprentice in Vienna he had some involvement with the school and was stunned how hard they all worked. That was not the case at Elmhurst. I think also some overseas students do think the UK is the place to come so accept offers here even if offered in their own countries. It isn't only dance where people are going abroad. My non dancing son is at Trinity Dublin and there is a definite increase in UK students there since our tuition fees went up so high.

That does sound crazy diagnosing over the phone. Must admit with dance injuries I often used to see a physio first. Dr always just said "rest". Physios are more realistic. They tell you if it's a must rest or risk further injury. They understand sometimes important things are happening. Even with my non dancing son it was a physio who picked up a serious concern in his hip that was causing huge issues whilst fencing. But make sure it is a physio who understands dance. Trouble with feet is intense pain can be mildly serious or indication of something more problematic. So I'd definitely see someone if it is still hurting. Rest may be the only answer as it often is.

Or ebay. Different colours are different strengths. Physios use them alot too.

What a shame there is so much negativity. Must make the company members feel very uncertain about the future.