company auditions, why so few places...?

[Peanut68]

2 hours ago, Emeralds said:

Sadler's Wells' Dance Pass  which really helps- eg SWDP is very good because both the teen AND a parent/friend/adult can get a DP ticket for £10 each - while stocks last though

For Sadlers Wells dance pass £10 tickets everyone using dance pass has to be under 30 so that I imagine counts out a parent from joining dance offspring!!! I’ve often bought the full price ticket next to the £10 dance pass one for student offspring to sit together….but no money off for me sadly 😢

Edited May 17 by Peanut68

[Peanut68]

To also add….my student has often bought a second dance pass & introduced non dance friends to ballet/dance by joining them on night out….usually with positive response to dance (apart from one who kept checking football scores on phone during performance! 😱 No longer a friend I hasten to add…!)

[Emeralds]

48 minutes ago, Peanut68 said:

For Sadlers Wells dance pass £10 tickets everyone using dance pass has to be under 30 so that I imagine counts out a parent from joining dance offspring!!! I’ve often bought the full price ticket next to the £10 dance pass one for student offspring to sit together….but no money off for me sadly 😢

Sorry,  my relative (who so far hasn't brought older family members along) was clearly mistaken- I've just looked at the rules, thanks for helping to confirm @Peanut68. £10 is still a good saving even with the companion paying full price...I suppose the biggest difficulty/cost  is getting there if you're a long way from London. PS I couldn't help laughing over your tap and plumber pun for ages. 😄 💧🕺 

[Emeralds]

1 hour ago, Ballet Saga said:

That’s a good idea 

Sorry to confuse you and others @Ballet Saga- as Peanut68 had just confirmed, I was wrong about the parent going for £10 (the £10 companion ticket for under 30s only) but there are seats for £15 for most Sadler's Wells productions available so you can usually get a parent ticket for only £5 more. That said, maybe at 16 onwards they would rather go with friends their age rather than seen with parents! 

[Peanut68]

Ha ha - yes!! I had bought a ticket to join my offspring & partner but then thought a) I’d be a gooseberry & b) an awful lot of money to travel there & back & c) I’d probs then get hit up paying for 3 dinners, 3 lots of theatre drinks, 2 programmes & 3 ice creams….  So found a buyer for my ticket on this wonderful forum & saved myself £££!! 
I was given the programme at least when next we met up 

[taxi4ballet]

11 hours ago, Lifeafterballet said:

My daughter is just about to graduate from University with a BSc in Sport Rehabilitation. Bit more specific than Sports Science. You would be surprised how many jobs there are in this field with sports team, pitch side, private clinics and gyms, the military and the NHS including cardiac and stroke rehabilitation.
More than in the ballet world 🤣Anything really that requires muscular skeletal injury assessment, management and rehabilitation. It’s physiotherapy without detailed respiratory and neuro, although that is covered too. She also has qualifications and experience in Sports Massage, taping and Acupuncture 
RB are advising at the moment for a Strength and Conditioning coach. My daughter’s qualification and ballet knowledge is suitable for this position. They want at least 2 years post graduation experience that she doesn’t possess yet. These sport BSc qualifications can lead to an MSc in more specific and specialised areas.
Her placements included working with a leading U.K. Ballet Company and Ballet School. Arranged by herself with the intention of progressing into that field. But after 8 years of the ballet world she has decided to branch out and get more varied experiences. She may return in the future as she is passionate about injury prevention and management within dance. But for now she is just excited to try new experiences.

There is life after ballet ☺️ and a happy and well paid one 😅

The Sports science courses I'm talking about are the level 3 Btec courses at a local college, typically chosen by young males who are not academic A-level material, if you get my drift. There are two such young men in my wider family circle. 

[Mummy twinkle toes]

Watching live performances can be helpful but there are some documentaries on YouTube which are very valuable to watch. The ENB one (sadly I think only part one is available now but it was originally a three parter) was really insightful. It shows the pressure the company was under, how particular ADs and choreographers can be, how numerous freelance dancers are used for Swan Lake but if they have to be corrected more than twice then they are out and replaced, how even principals can be treated badly by those in charge and how promotions/hiring are managed.

I made mine watch when they were 14 & 12 to show them realities of company life. 
Titled Agony and ecstasy a year with ENB.

[Neverdancedjustamum]

The difference of course, with courses in local FE colleges, is that the industry these courses are in aren’t as exacting as the ballet world. Even if you have a Level 3 and find it difficult to find a job with that qualification, you can always top up, engage in professional development, specialise, to become more employable. It’s easier to move into similar, related fields. These careers and vocations are not as time-bound, you’re not pretty much considered retirement age almost two decades earlier than most professions.  

[Ballet Saga]

6 hours ago, Mummy twinkle toes said:

Watching live performances can be helpful but there are some documentaries on YouTube which are very valuable to watch. The ENB one (sadly I think only part one is available now but it was originally a three parter) was really insightful. It shows the pressure the company was under, how particular ADs and choreographers can be, how numerous freelance dancers are used for Swan Lake but if they have to be corrected more than twice then they are out and replaced, how even principals can be treated badly by those in charge and how promotions/hiring are managed.

I made mine watch when they were 14 & 12 to show them realities of company life. 
Titled Agony and ecstasy a year with ENB.

My son watched this and then I watched it with him and I was surprised it didn’t put him off! He was just fascinated! (It was an eye opener!) 

[Mummy twinkle toes]

4 hours ago, Ballet Saga said:

My son watched this and then I watched it with him and I was surprised it didn’t put him off! He was just fascinated! (It was an eye opener!) 

Yes, it is very good as it does show some of the stark realities.

This series is also on YouTube and in 8 parts. Ballet a la Russe. It follows a few different companies in Russia including a touring company.

 

[Garnier]

This has been such an interesting thread..

 

i read an interview with a former AD, who said that the ballet world (in his opinion of course) was less « cultured » than other artistic communities (e.g opera). On reading this thread I’m wondering (if it is indeed true) whether this is partly because of kids being closed off from such a young age to other arts and experiences. It seems that many of them are spending all their time in ballet class and very little having other experiences or even watching or reading about ballet. I do think that, ultimately, ballet benefits (or would benefit) from being exposed to - and fed by - developments in the wider world, whether they are artistic, political or philosophical. Perhaps the intensive technical training at a young age, fed in many cases by boarding schools that bring together children who in the majority come from broadly similar backgrounds (middle and upper-middle class, interested in the arts etc) and have the same dreams, rather than a diversity of backgrounds, interests and goals, impedes this.

 

Secondly, i do feel that it’s rather odd to be concerned about the lack of company opportunities while simultaneously not being interested in watching ballet - whether live or on TV, via a streaming service etc. For those of us living in big cities, there seem to be (at least in my experience) many opportunities to see dance at different price points. In the last 3 months, I’ve taken my children to see one big ballet (cheap seats, 50% off the tickets for them), one contemporary production (medium-priced seats, 50% of the tickets for them), one kids’ hip-hop concert (5 euros each), and two free performances by advanced ballet students. I appreciate that we are very lucky and that most people don’t have access to such opportunities. But some seem to be choosing between a private class and going to see a performance, and choosing the class - and the « system » seems to be encouraging them. I’m not blaming the parents at all as I can imagine that they feel that the private class is more able to help the kid achieve their dream - but will it, if there aren’t any companies to take them in because no one is going to watch them?

 

Finally…I think everyone here believes that governments need to do more to fund and encourage the arts. Realistically, they are unlikely to do this unless they perceive a thirst for it from the public. Perhaps we need to consider how we as individuals, and as a community who loves ballet and dance (which seems to be the case for most people here), can send a message that thriving, cohesive and happy societies need the arts, including dance; that we ourselves are willing to invest in them - whether financially or in terms of time, or both; and that we expect our governments to do the same.

 

 

[Sim]

Hello.  We have hidden the post with the link to the ENB documentary as it is a pirated version, which we do not allow on the forum.  May we please remind everyone that we can only permit official or copyrighted versions of videos here.

 

Thank you.

[Doing Dance 1]

12 minutes ago, Sim said:

Hello.  We have hidden the post with the link to the ENB documentary as it is a pirated version, which we do not allow on the forum.  May we please remind everyone that we can only permit official or copyrighted versions of videos here.

 

Thank you.

 

The links I shared were from Ian Davies’s YouTube account. 
 

Ian Davies was the editor of the 3 part series. 
 

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1853009/fullcredits/?ref_=tt_cl_sm

 

 

[Sim]

2 minutes ago, Doing Dance 1 said:

 

The links I shared were from Ian Davies’s YouTube account. 
 

Ian Davies was the editor of the 3 part series. 
 

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1853009/fullcredits/?ref_=tt_cl_sm

 

 

Thanks.  Do you know if he owns the copyright?

[Doing Dance 1]

19 minutes ago, Sim said:

Thanks.  Do you know if he owns the copyright?

I’m afraid I don’t know anything further than what I gathered from a brief google search. 
 

I felt comfortable posting as it had been uploaded to YouTube by the editor, one of the original creators of the show.

Apologies if this lands in the vaque territory.

[Sim]

Just now, Doing Dance 1 said:

I’m afraid I don’t know anything further than what I gathered from a brief google search. 
 

I felt comfortable posting as it had been uploaded to YouTube by the editor, one of the original creators of the show.

Apologies if this lands in the vaque territory.

And apologies for being so finickety....but we have come a cropper in the past!

[Kate_N]

2 hours ago, Garnier said:

i read an interview with a former AD, who said that the ballet world (in his opinion of course) was less « cultured » than other artistic communities (e.g opera). On reading this thread I’m wondering (if it is indeed true) whether this is partly because of kids being closed off from such a young age to other arts and experiences.

 

Yes, I notice this too - on various messageboards and in real life.

 

My theory about it is that this happens because sometimes, children (and their families) come to high level ballet training via a different route than in the other arts. 

 

I'm thinking of the case of the child who starts a ballet class for 'exercise' or 'co-ordination' but whose teachers suggest they are more than usually talented, and may have the body & kinesic ability needed to train to become a professional dancer, has more than usual physical talent. They may come from a family which has limited knowledge of and exposure to the arts - starting the ballet/dance class was a physical thing, not an art thing, if you see what I mean about the difference. 

 

So there's a family who know very little about the theatre, about performing arts, or music etc, but they have a child of unusual physical ability. This may be a surprise to them - how many parents come into this forum saying "I know nothing about dance, but apparently my child has talent." 

 

The art and the physical training are separate in this scenario, and it's quite different, perhaps to a child showing a prodigious talent as a writer, or musician - these things are not primarily physical skills, and so the family & the child/young person are far more likely to come to these arts through more general engagement with the arts more generally.

 

Edited May 18 by Kate_N

[Ruby Foo]

I think dancers are increasingly thinking more of dance linked to sport especially in the later years when they spend a considerable time in the gym, with physiotherapists ( often sports physios) and nutritionists.

I know my Dd was supremely educated in everything physical / increased stamina/ muscle mass/ endurance / diet etc. Fortunately she was doing a dance degree at the same time so there was some cultural enrichment to balance. 
Although the company was virtually next door there was no encouragement to make performances accessible through the school until the final 2 years. 

[Lifeafterballet]

In my experience vocational ballet students dedicate very little time or understand the importance of strength and conditioning until they experience an injury. Vocational schools would have less children on amber and red cards, off dance, if they prioritised injury prevention training programs. 
My son would have not sustained a lumbar spine fracture in his final year had he been advised and trained properly. There are sadly far too many broken children in vocational schools. Personally. I feel this is the priority, not watching ballet. 

[Ruby Foo]

5 hours ago, Garnier said:

Secondly, i do feel that it’s rather odd to be concerned about the lack of company opportunities while simultaneously not being interested in watching ballet - whether live or on TV, via a streaming service etc. For those of us living in big cities, there seem to be (at least in my experience) many opportunities to see dance at different price points. In the last 3 months, I’ve taken my children to see one big ballet (cheap seats, 50% off the tickets for them), one contemporary production (medium-priced seats, 50% of the tickets for them), one kids’ hip-hop concert (5 euros each), and two free performances by advanced ballet students. I appreciate that we are very lucky and that most people don’t have access to such opportunities. But some seem to be choosing between a private class and going to see a performance, and choosing the class - and the « system » seems to be encouraging them. I’m not blaming the parents at all as I can imagine that they feel that the private class is more able to help the kid achieve their dream - but will it, if there aren’t any companies to take them in because no one is going to watch them?

Choosing to do the appropriate amount of technical training ( which is a hell of a lot if you want to be able to compete in international auditions) whilst also becoming culturally and artistically enriched seems to be the perfect outcome.

Parents  encourage their child to see a range of dance performances whenever possible and with the help of discounted tickets which, as people have pointed out are readily available. 
This all helps support the dance community and gives dancers the depth, artistry and understanding they need to be truly great artists.

This all makes sense.

I've never however, taken my daughter to science labs to support her biology research or supported my other daughter in tech/ coding because I'm simply not interested. I have a life!

I might watch some plays with her for English, but only because I'm genuinely interested and genuinely curious.

But ballet companies, which is what this thread is about, cannot rely on the ballet community alone to support them. That would be a weird bubble world for sure! It's not enough that parents ( who may not get any pleasure or joy from watching ballet) support companies because they want their child to find employment at the end!

Ballet needs to sustain more than parents of budding ballerinas. It fundamentally needs to touch people in a way that makes them want more or at the very least makes them curious and interested.

A few years ago, I supported my artist daughter ( painter) on a project that brought poets, musicians, artists and actors together for a couple of weeks. In conversation re being ballet teacher they all admitted to have never seen a ballet before. They were all part of an artistic and cultural community. I have found the majority of people ( non dance related) haven't seen a ballet and don't appear to be very interested in the possibility either.

I appreciate Companies do a lot to make ballets more accessible to many. Ticket discounts, advertising (I note ENB advertising on Jazz fm atm. etc etc.  But clearly it remains a niche market and why it's becoming so difficult for classical dancers to find employment. Lack of demand. 

I know purists will balk at the idea, but I wish we could think of ballet differently. Without a link to theatres which cost so much to run and upkeep. Without expensive costumes and all that jazz. There are so many spaces out there, without walls and behind doors. Spaces just waiting to be filled with ballet ( adaptive ballet but good, authentic ballet) and let people become curious and interested. Let dancers be out there where people can engage with them, ask questions and become more familiar with this fabulous art form.

 

 

 

Edited May 18 by Ruby Foo

[Colman]

11 hours ago, Garnier said:

read an interview with a former AD, who said that the ballet world (in his opinion of course) was less « cultured » than other artistic communities (e.g opera).

I’ve always had the impression that almost all the top principals I’ve done workshops with were extremely cultured and extremely sharp - and my reference for sharpness is maths departments. 
 

Whether they accumulated that before or after they got into companies is another matter, I suppose. 

Edited May 18 by Colman

[Ballet Saga]

6 hours ago, Ruby Foo said:

Choosing to do the appropriate amount of technical training ( which is a hell of a lot if you want to be able to compete in international auditions) whilst also becoming culturally and artistically enriched seems to be the perfect outcome.

Parents  encourage their child to see a range of dance performances whenever possible and with the help of discounted tickets which, as people have pointed out are readily available. 
This all helps support the dance community and gives dancers the depth, artistry and understanding they need to be truly great artists.

This all makes sense.

I've never however, taken my daughter to science labs to support her biology research or supported my other daughter in tech/ coding because I'm simply not interested. I have a life!

I might watch some plays with her for English, but only because I'm genuinely interested and genuinely curious.

But ballet companies, which is what this thread is about, cannot rely on the ballet community alone to support them. That would be a weird bubble world for sure! It's not enough that parents ( who may not get any pleasure or joy from watching ballet) support companies because they want their child to find employment at the end!

Ballet needs to sustain more than parents of budding ballerinas. It fundamentally needs to touch people in a way that makes them want more or at the very least makes them curious and interested.

A few years ago, I supported my artist daughter ( painter) on a project that brought poets, musicians, artists and actors together for a couple of weeks. In conversation re being ballet teacher they all admitted to have never seen a ballet before. They were all part of an artistic and cultural community. I have found the majority of people ( non dance related) haven't seen a ballet and don't appear to be very interested in the possibility either.

I appreciate Companies do a lot to make ballets more accessible to many. Ticket discounts, advertising (I note ENB advertising on Jazz fm atm. etc etc.  But clearly it remains a niche market and why it's becoming so difficult for classical dancers to find employment. Lack of demand. 

I know purists will balk at the idea, but I wish we could think of ballet differently. Without a link to theatres which cost so much to run and upkeep. Without expensive costumes and all that jazz. There are so many spaces out there, without walls and behind doors. Spaces just waiting to be filled with ballet ( adaptive ballet but good, authentic ballet) and let people become curious and interested. Let dancers be out there where people can engage with them, ask questions and become more familiar with this fabulous art form.

 

 

 

I don’t think anyone would suggest only the ballet community can support the art form. Of course it needs to come from elsewhere too. And it mainly does. 
 

I’ve just remembered that BRB did a piece (partly in trainers if I am right!) at the Commonwealth Games opening ceremony 2022. Can’t get much more out of a theatre and modern (trainers!) than that! 
 

Can we please stop trying to compare ballet to science, plumbing etc. We all know there is no comparison. And we all know that the commitment to our children’s training is spending lots of time involved in it. Hence why many are on this forum! Visiting a lab is not the same (but taking our children who have an interest in science to museums about it is…) Would anyone have an issue with that? 
 

As to culture. Well it’s up to us as parents to introduce our children to that. 

[Ruby Foo]

59 minutes ago, Ballet Saga said:

I don’t think anyone would suggest only the ballet community can support the art form. Of course it needs to come from elsewhere too. And it mainly does. 
 

I’ve just remembered that BRB did a piece (partly in trainers if I am right!) at the Commonwealth Games opening ceremony 2022. Can’t get much more out of a theatre and modern (trainers!) than that! 
 

Can we please stop trying to compare ballet to science, plumbing etc. We all know there is no comparison. And we all know that the commitment to our children’s training is spending lots of time involved in it. Hence why many are on this forum! Visiting a lab is not the same (but taking our children who have an interest in science to museums about it is…) Would anyone have an issue with that? 
 

As to culture. Well it’s up to us as parents to introduce our children to that. 

Doing a 'one off' token piece at the Commonwealth Games ( while very applaudable) wasn't really what I had in mind as a revolutionary, yet sustainable way of adapting ballet performance to reach and excite wider audiences and to create more secure employment for dancers.

Nothing revolutionary in the following, but I was truly impressed by the Shakespeare performances and other plays performed in Central Park and Riverside Park NY.  People queue all night, every night, through Central Park to purchase a ticket ( I joined a mile long queue at 3am) and was not disappointed- the performances are incredible. The plays ( usually classics such as Oscar Wilde) performed on Riverside are even more accessible, even to those just wandering through who want to mull a while and get a glimpse of the actors. This kind of style of performing tends to act as a magnet and attracts attention. It's all top, professional companies, very popular and dynamic. They touch people who wouldn't ordinarily want to  go see it.

I also love the way jazz musicians ( there's a group of 90 I know of) who have never seen each other before, come together in venues all over London, and create a night of fabulous jazz in groups of 3 or 4.
People will say these things can't be done with ballet and cite a thousand reasons why. But as long as we keep accepting 11 yr olds into Classical vocational training, I think we would do well to change things up.

 

[Ruby Foo]

1 hour ago, Ballet Saga said:

Can we please stop trying to compare ballet to science, plumbing etc.

Giving examples of actors and jazz musicians and not comparisons.

[Ballet Saga]

1 hour ago, Ruby Foo said:

Doing a 'one off' token piece at the Commonwealth Games ( while very applaudable) wasn't really what I had in mind as a revolutionary, yet sustainable way of adapting ballet performance to reach and excite wider audiences and to create more secure employment for dancers.

Nothing revolutionary in the following, but I was truly impressed by the Shakespeare performances and other plays performed in Central Park and Riverside Park NY.  People queue all night, every night, through Central Park to purchase a ticket ( I joined a mile long queue at 3am) and was not disappointed- the performances are incredible. The plays ( usually classics such as Oscar Wilde) performed on Riverside are even more accessible, even to those just wandering through who want to mull a while and get a glimpse of the actors. This kind of style of performing tends to act as a magnet and attracts attention. It's all top, professional companies, very popular and dynamic. They touch people who wouldn't ordinarily want to  go see it.

I also love the way jazz musicians ( there's a group of 90 I know of) who have never seen each other before, come together in venues all over London, and create a night of fabulous jazz in groups of 3 or 4.
People will say these things can't be done with ballet and cite a thousand reasons why. But as long as we keep accepting 11 yr olds into Classical vocational training, I think we would do well to change things up.

 

The thing is how can we expect to change things up if we don’t even encourage our own trainee dancers to go and see the ballet? (Or even see it as important for their training). You can’t have it both ways. Plus many people go and see the classics (Swan Lake, Nutcracker, just like they go and see the classic plays, especially Shakespeare). You can’t really expect a ballet company to do Swan Lake or Nutcracker in Central Park. 
 

What I see a lot of is people complaining about ballet becoming too full of tricks and the artistry being lost. What you’re suggesting alludes to that (although I know it’s probably not what you mean), but to get the attention of the ‘masses’ this is probably what would work. But then it takes away from what ballet is so is that a fair pay off? 
 

A good place to start would be to bring ballet to small children in schools (like some schools do already) and for the art form to be appreciated, not for it to drastically change to suit short attention spans. 
 

I think companies do a lot to promote different types of ballet. There is new material all the time and smaller companies touring with interesting pieces. https://northernballet.com/theatre/island-movements This is one. 
 

It’s not so easy just to ‘plot up’ and do a ballet, like a play. Flooring for one would be an issue. And space. And expense. Only the bigger companies would likely manage to do that. 

[Lifeafterballet]

My son’s National Ballet company announce their repertoire for the season and then perform it randomly. Ds can dance sometimes 3 different ballets in one week. I think this keeps the theatre and the dancers fresh. Also making the ballets more varied for the customers.

I imagine it must be pretty dull to just dance Swan Lake for example, for a few weeks block style. In June I am managing to watch 2 different ballets in my short visit. 
My son has danced in A Streetcar Named Desire every year for the past 4. They only did 4 shows this year. Its popularity just keeps bringing it back and every seat was sold. This way the AD can give more junior dancers the opportunity to dance soloist roles so helping with development and retention. 
This probably would work with touring companies but RB could jazz it up a bit more ☺️ 

[Ruby Foo]

6 hours ago, Ballet Saga said:

The thing is how can we expect to change things up if we don’t even encourage our own trainee dancers to go and see the ballet? (Or even see it as important for their training). You can’t have it both ways. Plus many people go and see the classics (Swan Lake, Nutcracker, just like they go and see the classic plays, especially Shakespeare). You can’t really expect a ballet company to do Swan Lake or Nutcracker in Central Park. 
 

What I see a lot of is people complaining about ballet becoming too full of tricks and the artistry being lost. What you’re suggesting alludes to that (although I know it’s probably not what you mean), but to get the attention of the ‘masses’ this is probably what would work. But then it takes away from what ballet is so is that a fair pay off? 
 

A good place to start would be to bring ballet to small children in schools (like some schools do already) and for the art form to be appreciated, not for it to drastically change to suit short attention spans. 
 

I think companies do a lot to promote different types of ballet. There is new material all the time and smaller companies touring with interesting pieces. https://northernballet.com/theatre/island-movements This is one. 
 

It’s not so easy just to ‘plot up’ and do a ballet, like a play. Flooring for one would be an issue. And space. And expense. Only the bigger companies would likely manage to do that. 

 
I absolutely don't believe that doing things differently means taking away the purity or authenticity from Ballet. I absolutely don't mean that at all. I am not in any way suggesting that we should dilute Ballet into something that the general public might find more appealing and, even to say that is an insult to the public. We don't know what the public might be passionate about because Ballet is not really visible and interactive in the way other art forms are. I'm not talking about changing Ballet, I'm talking about making Ballet visible in a way it's not right now. To suggest the general public have short attention spans and people who go see ballet don't, is also not true. I never mentioned drastically changing ballet and I can't think of anything further from my heart.

I am also not talking about companies doing new work. Yes, that's important- very important and if that's part of what comes from changing up the way things are done, then great. Great for choreography and great for dancers. But as far as it's in a theatre with a poster outside then it's all the same to me in reference to not reaching out nearly far enough and staying in the same small box as ballet always has. Maybe more of the public that teeter on the periphery of going to a Ballet would choose Nutcracker and Swan Lake but in the grand scheme we can't suggest it's a lot of people. Most of the non dance people I've met have never seen a ballet or have any intention of doing so. It's not the same as people who are so passionate they're prepared to queue all night to get a ticket. Night after night. And that's the thing. Those companies came outside and met people, they reached out and touched people. Had it been behind closed doors it would have been less in every way.

I don't believe that having visionary ideas ( not mine but hopefully someone's) of how we can make Ballet less selfish and more joyful by opening this beautiful and meaningful art form with others so it can be shared by more .That's different from encouraging someone to go to a ballet. I'm talking about ballet being more visible so people can make their own choices about what they've seen and at least get a conversation going and maybe learn something/ maybe not.

You can’t really expect a ballet company to do Swan Lake or Nutcracker in Central Park. 

Why not? Because we've never seen it before? I don't think problems and logistics have ever stopped people challenging the status quo if the desire is there.

There's opportunities all over UK to reach a wider audience and interact with people. I find festivals of literature, poetry, music, art, drama where I can watch, talk to the artists and learn. But not Ballet. 
I believe that in coming out from its box, Ballet would be challenged and it would grow as a result. 


 

[Emeralds]

9 hours ago, Ruby Foo said:

Doing a 'one off' token piece at the Commonwealth Games ( while very applaudable) wasn't really what I had in mind as a revolutionary, yet sustainable way of adapting ballet performance to reach and excite wider audiences and to create more secure employment for dancers.

Nothing revolutionary in the following, but I was truly impressed by the Shakespeare performances and other plays performed in Central Park and Riverside Park NY.  People queue all night, every night, through Central Park to purchase a ticket ( I joined a mile long queue at 3am) and was not disappointed- the performances are incredible. The plays ( usually classics such as Oscar Wilde) performed on Riverside are even more accessible, even to those just wandering through who want to mull a while and get a glimpse of the actors. This kind of style of performing tends to act as a magnet and attracts attention. It's all top, professional companies, very popular and dynamic. They touch people who wouldn't ordinarily want to  go see it.

I also love the way jazz musicians ( there's a group of 90 I know of) who have never seen each other before, come together in venues all over London, and create a night of fabulous jazz in groups of 3 or 4.
People will say these things can't be done with ballet and cite a thousand reasons why. But as long as we keep accepting 11 yr olds into Classical vocational training, I think we would do well to change things up.

 

The most similar equivalent to New York's  Shakespeare in the Park performances (which have a history of top casts including Meryl Streep, Morgan Freeman, Raul Julia, James Earl Jones, Olympia Dukakis etc) would be the Proms, although most performances aren't open air (but Shakespeare's Globe performances are).

 

Both the Proms and SG have cheap standing tickets although the seated ones are expensive- the Proms seated prices have shot up lots this year. There are always at least two operas (sometimes more) at the Proms, semi staged, but no ballets (ballet music eg Swan Lake, Romeo and Juliet, is occasionally programmed but not an actual ballet programme with dancers,  although they have previously included tap dancing, ballroom with a Strictly theme, and semi staged musicals with dancers from musical theatre backgrounds). 

 

I'd like to see a ballet equivalent of the Proms - like the New York Shakespeare performances - in Britain:  there are enough good classical ballet graduates and classical ballet dancers in the country to form a company just for the summer, which can then act either as a springboard for touring productions to other cities and towns during the rest of the year, or if the dancers wish to pursue other projects they can, returning the next summer.

 

Ballet has only ever featured once (or twice) in a Proms type setting- when Midland Bank (now part of HSBC) used to sponsor a week of Proms-style opera and ballet performances at ROH in the 1980s and 1990s with stalls seats removed and audiences sitting on the floor (not standing like at the BBC Proms). Tickets were about £5 each in those days,  with top prices at the time being around £60 (for ballet) to £100 (for the most expensive opera). The normal seating and prices in the rest of the auditorium remained. It was predominantly operas; I only remember one ballet being available the year I went: Cyrano, by David Bintley. Sadly, the Proms week at ROH haven't continued into the 21st century. 

 

The ballet Proms or ballet in the Park idea could work- Denmark has a similar festival every summer with Royal Danish Ballet dancers touring open air locations around their country dancing pas de deux and excerpts (if it rains they just don't dance). It could work here: it just needs a bit of will, determination and creativity. As the experience of the new BRB2 initiative has shown, there are a lot of new audiences around the country who would love to see their first ballet (and would return) at both an affordable price as well as in an accessible setting, and presented in an accessible format. 

Edited May 19 by Emeralds

[Raquelle]

I saw this article which I think is a great example of branching out (although contemporary rather than ballet).....they even mention the lack of graduate jobs as one of the reasons behind it all....

 

https://www.theguardian.com/stage/article/2024/may/17/ballet-nights-ministry-of-sound

 

 

[Out-the-other-side]

BRB are quite good at taking ballet ‘out there’. The event at Hockley Social Club in February was well received, company members occasionally perform at busy Birmingham locations such as the BullRing and Victoria Square, a Swan Lake insight event was recently held at Bristol Cathedral and the Black Sabbath ballet piqued the interest of many non traditional ballet goers. An upcoming new production celebrating pioneering women from Birmingham is involving 30 local children from a ‘not necessarily’ ballet background selected through free workshops and the company are no strangers to our local news stations here in Birmingham. 

[Ruby Foo]

Yes, yes, yes! To all of the above 👏

Ballet can be as big or small as you like. It doesn't have to fundamentally change.

 

Everywhere's a stage if you use your creativity and imagination.

 

People can move mountains when they want to. They just have to want to.

 

The way I'd describe how Ballet is served up to me right now is niche, insular and distant.

 

Think of the distance, in real terms, a member of the audience is, in relation to the dancers? And that's as close as they'll ever get. Sitting in the Met, once, I felt as though I was on a hill watching a plane take off in the far distance, not watching real people perform.

 

Hopefully I'm wrong, but I feel that ballet performed in exclusively the same way as of old, will sadly lead to its demise.

 

 

[Allwrong]

I was going to mention BRB Black Sabbath. I was sceptical , but our heavy-metal-loving neighbour who would never contemplate traditional ballet was thrilled by it.

Is anyone else old enough to remember RB Sadlers Well (predecessor to BRB) touring in a circus big top? That was how I came to live ballet: it would pitch up 15 mins walk away from my home, and was the highlight of the year for my family. I’d already watched ballet on TV, but this was pure glamour and thrill. We went to everything, often with multi-Family groups. Lovely memories!

[Ballet Saga]

It would be lovely if companies could engage more of an audience. But how are they supposed to fund that if we don’t go and see the ballet and encourage our children to?

 

It all sounds like deflection talking about how we can get ballet to engage more people. While all the while there’s been lots of arguments here as to why students in training don’t need to see the ballet. If we don’t expect even the future ballet dancers to watch, how can we expect anyone else? 
 

Why does something have to become a spectacle before we’re willing to engage with it?