company auditions, why so few places...?

[Ballet Saga]

12 minutes ago, Peanut68 said:

I have absolutely no issue with hugely talented Principal level dancers of all nationalities performing all around the world  - surely a reward for their hard earned success? As ever was this… But I do question the global position leading to this does it not make sense for dancers to predominantly ‘cut their teeth’ in their ‘home’ environment? & to then be able to earn guesting opportunities as a reward as their cling the ladder?  No it almost seems a reverse situation for Uk nationality dancers anyhow …they have to seek overseas ‘experience’ (ie. Is it actually a paid ‘job’? Or is it an internship/ apprenticeship?these may be stipend subsidised but let’s face it…most likely these still require a level of subsidy from parents or elsewhere…)

This is so unacceptable… do we train more plumbers than needed?  I doubt it…. I suggest we need to try match the desire for watching the arts with the desire for jobs in the arts… I know of so many families who have sacrificed ed so much for one family  member to train to pro level who in the main have no interest/desire to then watch said art form. I am so often amazed at how many I dance training be it recreational or vocational have seen so few ballets themselves & their finders (usually patents) even less. 

I find this extraordinary that many families who have children training to be ballet dancers, very rarely see the ballet or much dance at all! I know so many who pay out 100s for training and extras but never take their child to the ballet…And moan about the cost of a ticket! 
How can they know what level is expected if they don’t see it for themselves? And how can they not support the ballet? 
 

 

[sillysally]

4 hours ago, Jan McNulty said:

 

I suggest the shortage is due to all you have listed plus the current dire straits of the arts not only in this country but around the world.  Also, if you look at the UK, there are far more graduates than vacancies in the UK companies.

 

The word used by Fiona was overwhelmed not surprised, which puts a slightly different slant on the comment.

Thanks for your clarification . I personally read overwhelmed to imply unexpected - surprised . I stand by my comment that in today’s world successful companies are aware of the job market and operate accordingly.  
I wish any new dance venture success, and hope they treat potential and actual dancers with the professional respect they deserve through their recruitment and employment. 

[Raquelle]

18 minutes ago, Ballet Saga said:

I find this extraordinary that many families who have children training to be ballet dancers, very rarely see the ballet or much dance at all! I know so many who pay out 100s for training and extras but never take their child to the ballet…And moan about the cost of a ticket! 
How can they know what level is expected if they don’t see it for themselves? And how can they not support the ballet? 
 

 

Some ballet parents can't afford to watch ballets due to the cost of training 🙄... as sadly there is very little disposable income left over once fees have been paid (we have an mds scholarship too). We did enjoy watching Swan lake in the cinema though! Although not quite the same! X 

[Ruby Foo]

15 minutes ago, Raquelle said:

Some ballet parents can't afford to watch ballets due to the cost of training 🙄... as sadly there is very little disposable income left over once fees have been paid (we have an mds scholarship too). We did enjoy watching Swan lake in the cinema though! Although not quite the same! X 

So very true. If you live in the London area, you will need a small fortune to purchase a couple of seats for the Ballet, unless you are seated in the Gods, which is still expensive. Not so many people have that sort of money, especially if they have kids training. The kids at school could go and try to get a standing only spot, so my Dd saw quite a few that way. Nearly passed out a few times, but still.

[Ballet Saga]

26 minutes ago, Raquelle said:

Some ballet parents can't afford to watch ballets due to the cost of training 🙄... as sadly there is very little disposable income left over once fees have been paid (we have an mds scholarship too). We did enjoy watching Swan lake in the cinema though! Although not quite the same! X 

Yes it’s great that some are shown in the cinema now. Some performances cost the same as the cinema if you can get to them. It should be a priority to at least see a couple of live performances a year surely? 
 

Sometimes it’s down to priorities isn’t it? 
 

It also doesn’t always have to be the Royal Ballet etc. Some smaller companies tour performances and the ticket price is very reasonable. I’m seeing a short performance in June for just £12.50 (and that’s all tickets at that price). 

[Ballet Saga]

5 minutes ago, Ruby Foo said:

So very true. If you live in the London area, you will need a small fortune to purchase a couple of seats for the Ballet, unless you are seated in the Gods, which is still expensive. Not so many people have that sort of money, especially if they have kids training. The kids at school could go and try to get a standing only spot, so my Dd saw quite a few that way. Nearly passed out a few times, but still.

If you live in London you have the opportunity to get last minute tickets and there are definitely ways and means to see the ballet cheaply. Also there are more dance performances in general to go and see. Which is important for a dancer in training. 

[Birdy]

In speaking of the number of dancers trained vs the number of dancers needed, I don’t think you can compare it to plumbers, as it isn’t a job that can just be taught. Schools don’t have a crystal ball they can peer into to see who will succeed because ballet is just so subjective. The only way for schools to graduate fewer dancers would be for them to accept far fewer into their programs. At what age should that start? Should they only admit six kids at 16? In my opinion it is after 16 that dancers begin to really develop artistry and transition from looking like students to looking like real dancers. Some dancers graduate, secure a position, and then end up back on the audition circuit again a year later. Others spend one more year in a paid post-graduate program, then secure a contract and go on to great success. It is absolutely not for the faint of heart. If anyone is looking for guarantees they are looking at the wrong career.

[Peanut68]

1 hour ago, Birdy said:

In speaking of the number of dancers trained vs the number of dancers needed, I don’t think you can compare it to plumbers, as it isn’t a job that can just be taught. Schools don’t have a crystal ball they can peer into to see who will succeed because ballet is just so subjective. The only way for schools to graduate fewer dancers would be for them to accept far fewer into their programs. At what age should that start? Should they only admit six kids at 16? In my opinion it is after 16 that dancers begin to really develop artistry and transition from looking like students to looking like real dancers. Some dancers graduate, secure a position, and then end up back on the audition circuit again a year later. Others spend one more year in a paid post-graduate program, then secure a contract and go on to great success. It is absolutely not for the faint of heart. If anyone is looking for guarantees they are looking at the wrong career.

Back to plumbing then….definite better option for  guarantee of a career 😂

[Birdy]

1 hour ago, Peanut68 said:

Back to plumbing then….definite better option for  guarantee of a career 😂

Truly! There are definitely businesses we can’t do without. 

[Lifeafterballet]

There’s a few points raised about why there is are so many dancers not gaining employment.

Lack of available contracts is probably due to the economic turndown and uncertainty leading to company cutbacks or employed dancers staying in jobs longer than they would like. (This is from my current experience) My son’s National ballet company has not advertised internationally for female dancers since 2019. 
The other option is schools filling places to the max to stay afloat and not thinking of the employability of the students they are producing.

If the “assessing out and streamlining” cream of the crop RBS dancers aren’t all securing paid employment anymore then what hope is there for ENBS, Elmhurst and others training ballet dancers. If you look at the graduate destinations over the past few years you can clearly see it. But don’t always believe what they write anyway 😊 

Its a saturated market with huge numbers of graduates heading for pre professional programs that will lead to the majority stopping at the end as very few obtain paid work on completion.

The best think my daughter ever did was to get out. She could have waited for the pandemic to calm and then fly out to the US to start her contract but that would have just prolonged the inevitable that we were going to run out of money to support her and just didn’t have the guts to say no. Luckily she made that decision and I am so so happy and relieved that she did 😅

 

[Neverdancedjustamum]

9 minutes ago, Lifeafterballet said:

There’s a few points raised about why there is are so many dancers not gaining employment.

Lack of available contracts is probably due to the economic turndown and uncertainty leading to company cutbacks or employed dancers staying in jobs longer than they would like. (This is from my current experience) My son’s National ballet company has not advertised internationally for female dancers since 2019. 
The other option is schools filling places to the max to stay afloat and not thinking of the employability of the students they are producing.

If the “assessing out and streamlining” cream of the crop RBS dancers aren’t all securing paid employment anymore then what hope is there for ENBS, Elmhurst and others training ballet dancers. If you look at the graduate destinations over the past few years you can clearly see it. But don’t always believe what they write anyway 😊 

Its a saturated market with huge numbers of graduates heading for pre professional programs that will lead to the majority stopping at the end as very few obtain paid work on completion.

The best think my daughter ever did was to get out. She could have waited for the pandemic to calm and then fly out to the US to start her contract but that would have just prolonged the inevitable that we were going to run out of money to support her and just didn’t have the guts to say no. Luckily she made that decision and I am so so happy and relieved that she did 😅

 

This is exactly the line of thinking my DD came to the conclusion (maybe with a bit of help from mum!) when she was about 13. We had looked at graduate destinations of the ‘top schools’ and even she noticed they didn’t all feed in to what we assumed the dream top companies would be for these students - in fact, the numbers were very small. She also then realised an hour of private lesson equates to a very good family meal in a local restaurant, that the cost of a week-long intensive  can go significantly towards a family holiday, etc. She was fortunate enough to attend the most sought after associates and intensives and yet I remember her telling me she had moments she stood there, looked around and thought to herself, do I love this enough as much as these other extremely talented young dancers? She came to the conclusion that whilst she loved dance, she also wanted the family to spend its money on other family things, spend time with her friends and family and devote time to her studies. Yes, dancing gives young people all these exemplary things in life - grit, determination, work ethic, all those things mentioned on this forum about why dancing isn’t a waste of time and money - but at what cost and where do you actually draw the line? Is it when you sacrifice family holidays or spending half your monthly salary on dance training? Is it when you don’t see the rest of your family during weekends? Perhaps for other families finances is not an issue. But what about time? I remember around 3 years ago now, by some miracle DD reached the finals of a “big school”. She was 11. During the final, my husband and I were talking through a park and he told me there is no way he is willing to only see his daughter during the weekends or during schools breaks. I had to reassure him said daughter was just in there for the experience and to have a nosy what the famous school looks like inside. I guess it’s all about priorities, weighing the pros and cons on the face of hard stats, and figuring out what you’re willing to risk and sacrifice.

[Lifeafterballet]

29 minutes ago, Neverdancedjustamum said:

This is exactly the line of thinking my DD came to the conclusion (maybe with a bit of help from mum!) when she was about 13. We had looked at graduate destinations of the ‘top schools’ and even she noticed they didn’t all feed in to what we assumed the dream top companies would be for these students - in fact, the numbers were very small. She also then realised an hour of private lesson equates to a very good family meal in a local restaurant, that the cost of a week-long intensive  can go significantly towards a family holiday, etc. She was fortunate enough to attend the most sought after associates and intensives and yet I remember her telling me she had moments she stood there, looked around and thought to herself, do I love this enough as much as these other extremely talented young dancers? She came to the conclusion that whilst she loved dance, she also wanted the family to spend its money on other family things, spend time with her friends and family and devote time to her studies. Yes, dancing gives young people all these exemplary things in life - grit, determination, work ethic, all those things mentioned on this forum about why dancing isn’t a waste of time and money - but at what cost and where do you actually draw the line? Is it when you sacrifice family holidays or spending half your monthly salary on dance training? Is it when you don’t see the rest of your family during weekends? Perhaps for other families finances is not an issue. But what about time? I remember around 3 years ago now, by some miracle DD reached the finals of a “big school”. She was 11. During the final, my husband and I were talking through a park and he told me there is no way he is willing to only see his daughter during the weekends or during schools breaks. I had to reassure him said daughter was just in there for the experience and to have a nosy what the famous school looks like inside. I guess it’s all about priorities, weighing the pros and cons on the face of hard stats, and figuring out what you’re willing to risk and sacrifice.

👏 👏 Very well put !

The sacrifices are huge. Not just for the child, but the whole family. 

[Fiz]

1 hour ago, Neverdancedjustamum said:

This is exactly the line of thinking my DD came to the conclusion (maybe with a bit of help from mum!) when she was about 13. We had looked at graduate destinations of the ‘top schools’ and even she noticed they didn’t all feed in to what we assumed the dream top companies would be for these students - in fact, the numbers were very small. She also then realised an hour of private lesson equates to a very good family meal in a local restaurant, that the cost of a week-long intensive  can go significantly towards a family holiday, etc. She was fortunate enough to attend the most sought after associates and intensives and yet I remember her telling me she had moments she stood there, looked around and thought to herself, do I love this enough as much as these other extremely talented young dancers? She came to the conclusion that whilst she loved dance, she also wanted the family to spend its money on other family things, spend time with her friends and family and devote time to her studies. Yes, dancing gives young people all these exemplary things in life - grit, determination, work ethic, all those things mentioned on this forum about why dancing isn’t a waste of time and money - but at what cost and where do you actually draw the line? Is it when you sacrifice family holidays or spending half your monthly salary on dance training? Is it when you don’t see the rest of your family during weekends? Perhaps for other families finances is not an issue. But what about time? I remember around 3 years ago now, by some miracle DD reached the finals of a “big school”. She was 11. During the final, my husband and I were talking through a park and he told me there is no way he is willing to only see his daughter during the weekends or during schools breaks. I had to reassure him said daughter was just in there for the experience and to have a nosy what the famous school looks like inside. I guess it’s all about priorities, weighing the pros and cons on the face of hard stats, and figuring out what you’re willing to risk and sacrifice.

You have a wonderful daughter. 

[Ruby Foo]

8 hours ago, Ballet Saga said:

 

Sometimes it’s down to priorities isn’t it?

You're so right!

I have an elderly mother suffering with Alzheimer's in a care home who has needed my financial support and time for the past 7 years. Plus 3 other children who have needs that don't include going to the Ballet which, sadly they don't enjoy or have any interest in ( my husband has been known to nod off at several).They are my priority. Having a child at a vocational school ( as a day student) takes up way more than their fair share of their quota of the finances and time! What's left is for the rest of the family.

Thats my priority.

Of course you can find cheaper tickets if you're prepared to spend the time surfing and put up with the uncertainty of not planning ahead. 
I wish I had gone to more Ballets with my daughter, would have been lovely and given her a more well rounded and culturally rich arena to place herself and her training. But logistically there were formidable reasons I didn't and so it will be for many families.

Only replying to your post due to your tone of surprise and shock that more people don't find the time and money to go and watch Ballets. Seemed a little naive.

[Pas de Quatre]

Even if one can't get to live ballet performances,  which is always something special, there is a wealth of performances  available free online, often on YouTube.  Unfortunately I find that today's students often aren't the least bit interested in watching any of it, and have never heard of historically important dancers,  choreographers and composers.

[Ballet Saga]

1 hour ago, Ruby Foo said:

You're so right!

I have an elderly mother suffering with Alzheimer's in a care home who has needed my financial support and time for the past 7 years. Plus 3 other children who have needs that don't include going to the Ballet which, sadly they don't enjoy or have any interest in ( my husband has been known to nod off at several).They are my priority. Having a child at a vocational school ( as a day student) takes up way more than their fair share of their quota of the finances and time! What's left is for the rest of the family.

Thats my priority.

Of course you can find cheaper tickets if you're prepared to spend the time surfing and put up with the uncertainty of not planning ahead. 
I wish I had gone to more Ballets with my daughter, would have been lovely and given her a more well rounded and culturally rich arena to place herself and her training. But logistically there were formidable reasons I didn't and so it will be for many families.

Only replying to your post due to your tone of surprise and shock that more people don't find the time and money to go and watch Ballets. Seemed a little naive.

Not naive at all. I know many families who go on long holidays etc and a myriad of other luxurious activities but moan about the cost of a ballet ticket! Which can be very cheap. And not just ballet, any dance. I’m sorry if I hit a nerve with you but that’s your life and you don’t need to defend anyone else’s life. Can we just be real and admit that there are lots of people that could easily go and see performances and don’t? I don’t understand why people get so defensive about this issue. How can you be serious about your child becoming a ballet dancer and not take them to watch dance? 

[Ballet Saga]

22 minutes ago, Pas de Quatre said:

Even if one can't get to live ballet performances,  which is always something special, there is a wealth of performances  available free online, often on YouTube.  Unfortunately I find that today's students often aren't the least bit interested in watching any of it, and have never heard of historically important dancers,  choreographers and composers.

Yet they want to become a dancer. Madness! 

[Ruby Foo]

11 minutes ago, Ballet Saga said:

Not naive at all. I know many families who go on long holidays etc and a myriad of other luxurious activities but moan about the cost of a ballet ticket! Which can be very cheap. And not just ballet, any dance. I’m sorry if I hit a nerve with you but that’s your life and you don’t need to defend anyone else’s life. Can we just be real and admit that there are lots of people that could easily go and see performances and don’t? I don’t understand why people get so defensive about this issue. How can you be serious about your child becoming a ballet dancer and not take them to watch dance? 

 
Just providing evidence against sweeping statements.

[Ruby Foo]

17 minutes ago, Ballet Saga said:

Yet they want to become a dancer. Madness! 

Are you saying that kids who don't get a chance to watch ballets regularly have less chance at becoming a dancer? Because I don't believe that's true. 

[Pas de Quatre]

What we are saying is that you learn a great deal from watching ballets, whether live or recorded, but many students do not see this as necessary. They concentrate on technique as an end in itself, rather than a way to express artistry.

[Ballet Saga]

1 hour ago, Ruby Foo said:

Are you saying that kids who don't get a chance to watch ballets regularly have less chance at becoming a dancer? Because I don't believe that's true. 

I agree with Pas de Quatre. 
 

How can a dancer in training know what’s expected of them if they don’t see live performances? It’s an integral part of their training. 
 

I wonder how many successful ballet dancers didn’t see performances regularly? Obviously it’s hard to know but I doubt it’s many. 
 

It also doesn’t have to be expensive. Seeing all sorts of dance is beneficial. A lot of the schools have graduate companies and it’s not expensive to go and see them. It’s also supporting the schools and companies that’s important. 
 

It might be a sweeping statement to you but I have met a lot of people with children who are in training and I can count on one hand the amount of them who bother taking their child to a live performance. And for a lot it’s nothing to do with being financially able. 
 

 

[Colman]

I'm always confused by dancers at any age who aren't interested in seeing performances of their art. We see a lot of adult dancers - and more than one teacher - who have no idea who or what we're talking about when we mention companies or dancers or even ballets, and plenty of kids who have never seen a ballet live, not even the local Irish touring or youth companies who aren't that expensive to see. I'm reasonably certain that for most of the ones I know it's not because of financial constraints. 

 

Do students in other arts succeed without understanding the context of what they're doing, without references to build their performances on beyond academic exercise? Without being able to have a sensible conversation about the corpus of work in their field? How can they even know what they're meant to be aspiring to be? (And that's before you get to adults who are apparently seriously studying a performance art and don't want to perform*, which is another thing I fail to understand.) 

 

(* As opposed to being terrified of performances, which I understand perfectly!)

[Neverdancedjustamum]

3 hours ago, Ruby Foo said:

You're so right!

I have an elderly mother suffering with Alzheimer's in a care home who has needed my financial support and time for the past 7 years. Plus 3 other children who have needs that don't include going to the Ballet which, sadly they don't enjoy or have any interest in ( my husband has been known to nod off at several).They are my priority. Having a child at a vocational school ( as a day student) takes up way more than their fair share of their quota of the finances and time! What's left is for the rest of the family.

Thats my priority.

Of course you can find cheaper tickets if you're prepared to spend the time surfing and put up with the uncertainty of not planning ahead. 
I wish I had gone to more Ballets with my daughter, would have been lovely and given her a more well rounded and culturally rich arena to place herself and her training. But logistically there were formidable reasons I didn't and so it will be for many families.

Only replying to your post due to your tone of surprise and shock that more people don't find the time and money to go and watch Ballets. Seemed a little naive.

It’s definitely about priorities and I don’t think it’s that easy to watch live ballet so I can totally see your point. It might be easy for some but so many factors prevent us from doing so. Top is priorities, and this is related to both finances and time. It’s so easy to envy those people who can watch multiple casts of a ballet but I appreciate they have the time and funding to do so and this is what gives them joy. Conversely, people should also realise that not everyone can enjoy this. I don’t have just one child and teenagers can be a financial black hole (dancer or not!) - school trips, clothes, bus fares, lunches. This is despite my kids being in state schools. Not to mention normal household bills, which is why I work full time. This means  shows during the week are out of the question. Plus, my kids won’t want to miss school. Matinees in the weekend often coincide with dance classes. Location: where we live means that if we watch the evening ballets it’s virtually impossible to catch the last train home without stressing or missing it.  There are some local theatres but they barely have ballets. I literally don’t have time to monitor tickets online, in fact, by the time I check, I often find that reasonably priced tickets in seats that aren’t too high up are gone. I physically cannot sit in seats that are too high up (late onset vertigo I guess).  I’m not a member of anything that would give me access to early tickets. Therefore as much as I’d like to take my child to ballet, it is very difficult to do so. The only ballets she has seen are pre-gen ones as part of her associates, or when we have been gifted tickets or seats. My DD enjoyed watching some ballets online but even she had to admit that it’s nothing like the live ones. Sadly, due to where we live, our family’s timetable and financial priorities, work, school, it is virtually impossible for us to watch live ballets. 

Edited May 15 by Neverdancedjustamum

[Lifeafterballet]

23 minutes ago, Ballet Saga said:

I agree with Pas de Quatre. 
 

How can a dancer in training know what’s expected of them if they don’t see live performances? It’s an integral part of their training. 
 

I wonder how many successful ballet dancers didn’t see performances regularly? Obviously it’s hard to know but I doubt it’s many. 
 

It also doesn’t have to be expensive. Seeing all sorts of dance is beneficial. A lot of the schools have graduate companies and it’s not expensive to go and see them. It’s also supporting the schools and companies that’s important. 
 

It might be a sweeping statement to you but I have met a lot of people with children who are in training and I can count on one hand the amount of them who bother taking their child to a live performance. And for a lot it’s nothing to do with being financially able. 
 

 

I’m a parent who didn’t take my 2 vocational ballet children to see ballets.

For one, it is very expensive, especially for families not only paying for their children’s vocational training but for all the extras that go with it. 
And two, they didn’t want too. When you eat, sleep and breathe ballet from the second you open your eyes til the second you go to bed, the last thing they wanted to do when they were home for a very short time was to go and watch a ballet. 
The school made them go and watch every new BRB performance and then charged the parents for it 🤣 

[Colman]

1 minute ago, Neverdancedjustamum said:

Sadly, due to where we live, our family’s timetable and financial priorities, work, school, it is virtually impossible for us to watch live ballets.

Sure, and, based in Dublin, I rather doubt our boys would have been in the ROH or Paris Opera at young ages if we weren't all insane as a family but there's a difference between students taking the opportunities that come up when you can - which is the best anyone can do, even if for some of us that's easier than for others - and the students and teachers who don't seem to think that seeing ballets is part of training, which is the perplexing part for me. 

[Ruby Foo]

34 minutes ago, Ballet Saga said:

I agree with Pas de Quatre. 
 

How can a dancer in training know what’s expected of them if they don’t see live performances? It’s an integral part of their training. 
 

I wonder how many successful ballet dancers didn’t see performances regularly? Obviously it’s hard to know but I doubt it’s many. 
 

It also doesn’t have to be expensive. Seeing all sorts of dance is beneficial. A lot of the schools have graduate companies and it’s not expensive to go and see them. It’s also supporting the schools and companies that’s important. 
 

It might be a sweeping statement to you but I have met a lot of people with children who are in training and I can count on one hand the amount of them who bother taking their child to a live performance. And for a lot it’s nothing to do with being financially able. 
 

/Thank you. I understand you both perfectly. Of course it's going to be beneficial to see performances ( classical or other) and to discuss them, compare them and to understand the historical significance and contexts of styles etc etc. This is how most Artists learn, from watching one another. Important and beneficial, yes. A requirement? That's probably not true. I know plenty students who are progressing to Company level who don't or haven't seen performances in a major way. They seem to be doing pretty well for themselves. I am trying to balance a statement of 'shock' and 'disbelief' that more parents don't take their children to dance performances, with the reality of juggling real family life. Most parents I have met in my time are doing the best they can and juggling and struggling with a hundred different tasks at once.

Perhaps teachers could do more?

Perhaps Vocational schools could do more? To bridge the ever widening gap between watching and learning from performances and learning in the classroom? As a teacher, I purchased tickets on behalf of my school whenever possible and actively encouraged students to attend performances as a school event. I had a stock of dvds, blast from the past) that students could borrow ranging from Balanchine, Bournenville, Ashton. I encouraged them to watch and discuss at the end of class even though time was limited. Often we would try to do an enchainment in different styles with some hilarious results. But we were still thinking about the bigger picture.

Since my Dd entered vocational training, she very rarely saw a performance until her final year of upper school when they were encouraged to go. So many opportunities for them to watch amazing live performances, speak to dancers etc which certainly in lower school, were ignored.

[Ballet Saga]

6 minutes ago, Lifeafterballet said:

I’m a parent who didn’t take my 2 vocational ballet children to see ballets.

For one, it is very expensive, especially for families not only paying for their children’s vocational training but for all the extras that go with it. 
And two, they didn’t want too. When you eat, sleep and breathe ballet from the second you open your eyes til the second you go to bed, the last thing they wanted to do when they were home for a very short time was to go and watch a ballet. 
The school made them go and watch every new BRB performance and then charged the parents for it 🤣 

That’s good they got to see all the BRB performances! 
 

It really doesn’t have to be expensive to see a live performance. I’ve managed it and I’m very low income! 

[Neverdancedjustamum]

3 minutes ago, Lifeafterballet said:

I’m a parent who didn’t take my 2 vocational ballet children to see ballets.

For one, it is very expensive, especially for families not only paying for their children’s vocational training but for all the extras that go with it. 
And two, they didn’t want too. When you eat, sleep and breathe ballet from the second you open your eyes til the second you go to bed, the last thing they wanted to do when they were home for a very short time was to go and watch a ballet. 
The school made them go and watch every new BRB performance and then charged the parents for it 🤣 

Ahaha! I love this! It reminds me of my DD who hates getting anything ballet-related for birthday or Christmas, as they don’t count. I was too embarrassed to admit it, so I’m glad you did - my children don’t particularly beg me to watch the ballet. One isn’t a dancer and wouldn’t even which their sister’s watching days or shows (not an iota of interest in dance) and my DD who dances have a very select few ballets she enjoys watching. She’s terrible 😂 during lockdown I purchased some online ballet shows for her and half the time I’d catch her asleep half an hour in. She was never destined for dance greatness in so many ways. 

[Colman]

2 minutes ago, Ruby Foo said:

I had a stock of dvds, blast from the past) that students could borrow ranging from Balanchine, Bournenville, Ashton.

We end up lending our stock of DVDs to teachers. 

[Ruby Foo]

54 minutes ago, Pas de Quatre said:

What we are saying is that you learn a great deal from watching ballets, whether live or recorded, but many students do not see this as necessary. They concentrate on technique as an end in itself, rather than a way to express artistry.

 

Thank you. I understand you both perfectly. Of course it's going to be beneficial to see performances ( classical or other) and to discuss them, compare them and to understand the historical significance and contexts of styles etc etc. This is how most Artists learn, from watching one another. Important and beneficial, yes. A requirement? That's probably not true. I know plenty students who are progressing to Company level who don't or haven't seen performances in a major way. They seem to be doing pretty well for themselves. I am trying to balance a statement of 'shock' and 'disbelief' that more parents don'ttake their children to dance performances, with the reality of juggling real family life. Most parents I have met in my time are doing the best they can and juggling and struggling with a hundred different tasks at once.

[Raquelle]

40 minutes ago, Ballet Saga said:

I agree with Pas de Quatre. 
 

How can a dancer in training know what’s expected of them if they don’t see live performances? It’s an integral part of their training. 
 

I wonder how many successful ballet dancers didn’t see performances regularly? Obviously it’s hard to know but I doubt it’s many. 
 

It also doesn’t have to be expensive. Seeing all sorts of dance is beneficial. A lot of the schools have graduate companies and it’s not expensive to go and see them. It’s also supporting the schools and companies that’s important. 
 

It might be a sweeping statement to you but I have met a lot of people with children who are in training and I can count on one hand the amount of them who bother taking their child to a live performance. And for a lot it’s nothing to do with being financially 

It's not just about finances (although it plays a major role). It also depends on where you live and whether you have access to live performances.....lots of factors at play, so perhaps a bit simplistic to assume it's about priorities. I do agree though, important to try to get to live performances, if you can....but there are barriers x 

[Ballet Saga]

3 minutes ago, Ruby Foo said:

Perhaps teachers could do more?

Perhaps Vocational schools could do more? To bridge the ever widening gap between watching and learning from performances and learning in the classroom? As a teacher, I purchased tickets on behalf of my school whenever possible and actively encouraged students to attend performances as a school event. I had a stock of dvds, blast from the past) that students could borrow ranging from Balanchine, Bournenville, Ashton. I encouraged them to watch and discuss at the end of class even though time was limited. Often we would try to do an enchainment in different styles with some hilarious results. But we were still thinking about the bigger picture.

Since my Dd entered vocational training, she very rarely saw a performance until her final year of upper school when they were encouraged to go. So many opportunities for them to watch amazing live performances, speak to dancers etc which certainly in lower school, were ignored.

Everyone could do more. Schools, parents. I understand families can only do their best but there are far too many who don’t even see it as important or understand why it is. It’s bottom of the list.  I’m very low income but I have managed because I see the importance of it. How can I expect my child to be a professional dancer without him seeing live performances, and also supporting live performances? 
 

I can very clearly see how it has enhanced his training. Plus if he didn’t enjoy watching a ballet I would be saying well what’s the point in training to perform in one then? 

[Ballet Saga]

2 minutes ago, Raquelle said:

It's not just about finances (although it plays a major role). It also depends on where you live and whether you have access to live performances.....lots of factors at play, so perhaps a bit simplistic to assume it's about priorities. I do agree though, important to try to get to live performances, if you can....but there are barriers x 

There are barriers to many things in life. Including the training. But somehow we’ve made that happen for our kids? 
 

Where you live is a barrier (but then many go away to foreign places for holidays travelling hundreds of miles…) 

 

Maybe the truth is that a lot of families are disinterested. Obviously not all and yes it can be difficult.