Just for fun… Which do you think is the definitive version of Tchaikovsky pas de deux?

[Blossom]

Finding some free time on my hands today I have been watching Tchaikovsky pas de deux videos on YouTube back to back. I have found it really interesting in terms of not just style but the confidence of each female dancer in terms of trust in their partner for the fish dives. The Russian-trained dancers seem somewhat restrained and there is less sense of abandon, one of the more recent American versions strikes me as being gymnastic but not particularly balletic (particularly compared to recordings from previous decades)z Overall I think Marianela and partner (both Vadim and Reece Clarke available to watch) is the speediest, the most trusting and has the artistic  flair and precise technique to beat any competition hands down, but what do you think?

Playlist here 

 

 

[Emeralds]

Nela and Vadim are lovely, @Blossom, but my personal choice is that being a Balanchine ballet it has to be danced the way he intended it and not as a convenient "pretty" party piece for slotting into galas at a snail's pace or freezing in poses which the Russian dancers seem to like doing. So my gold standard is the NYCB stars of yore- Melissa Hayden, Suzanne Farrell, Jacques d'Amboise, Peter Martins, Helgi Tomasson, Patricia McBride, etc (whoever one can find on TV or video).

 

One particular bugbear I have is ballerinas not bothering to do entrechats in the middle as intended because it's harder, and just doing a little saute jump instead. So much so that I think when Patricia Neary coached it on some  companies either she gave up trying to make them do it or she taught it and they failed to do it on stage. I don’t really enjoy it that much being danced at RB as a result... and there are too many instances of the fish dives at the end going wrong so perhaps it shouldn't be danced so often unless the dancers can really nail every bit. However....When Marianela Nunez and Reece Clarke danced it at the Dance for Ukraine gala in March 2022 they nailed everything- the entrechats came off beautifully, his turns were clean, all the fish dives were successful- it was fantastic! That's my favourite performance out of all the ones I've seen in the UK.

 

Otherwise it would be NYCB or whoever comes closest to dancing it as Balanchine intended. Once upon a time BRB (then SWRB) staged it (in the 80s) and I missed them by a few days! Miyako Yoshida danced it; I was told she was brilliant (I don't recall who they said her partner was though.) 

[Jan McNulty]

The wonderful Trinidad Sevillano danced this with IIRC Julio Bocca at LFB/ENB.  WOW!!!

 

Sadly I can't find it on YT.

[Blossom]

31 minutes ago, Emeralds said:

. However....When Marianela Nunez and Reece Clarke danced it at the Dance for Ukraine gala in March 2022 they nailed everything- the entrechats came off beautifully, his turns were clean, all the fish dives were successful- it was fantastic! That's my favourite performance out of all the ones I've seen in the UK.

 

Otherwise it would be NYCB or whoever comes closest to dancing it as Balanchine intended. Once upon a time BRB (then SWRB) staged it (in the 80s) and I missed them by a few days! Miyako Yoshida danced it; I was told she was brilliant (I don't recall who they said her partner was though.) 

There is a studio version of Marianela and Reece Clarke on YouTube filmed by Dancer’s Diary which is my favourite, despite lack of costumes. Agree otherwise in terms of RB, I found Lauren Cuthbertson/Vadim actually ran rather slowly as did Darcey Bussell. I enjoyed Baryshnikov and Patricia McBride but although I rather like Tiler Peck in general, her version wasn’t ballet for me, it lacked elegance and grace. 

[Tattin]

The first time I saw it was at an RAD gala in London organised by Fonteyn in the sixties. It was danced by Violette Verdy and Edward Villella. I was bowled over by it and them so any I've seen since (and I've seen excellent and indifferent interpretations) have inevitably been compared with them. Some of you will know whether it was created on Verdy & Villella and if not on whom.

[Emeralds]

Just now, Blossom said:

There is a studio version of Marianela and Reece Clarke on YouTube filmed by Dancer’s Diary which is my favourite, despite lack of costumes. Agree otherwise in terms of RB, I found Lauren Cuthbertson/Vadim actually ran rather slowly as did Darcey Bussell. I enjoyed Baryshnikov and Patricia McBride but although I rather like Tiler Peck in general, her version wasn’t ballet for me, it lacked elegance and grace. 

Yes, that studio one was filmed in preparation for that fundraiser and is very close to the actual performance. I noticed Joaquin changed a few bits in his rendition although it was an exciting and fun performance; I do like Tiler's version especially her fouettes and pirouettes. Balanchine made it for Violette Verdy and Conrad Ludlow: Verdy has passed away now but I understand Ludlow is still around, at age 88. Someone should consult / interview him about this pas de deux and get the expert opinion!!  A lot of iconic roles in the repertoire today were created on Ludlow, but he's so low key and humble- nobody seems to ask him for comment? 

[Emeralds]

3 minutes ago, Tattin said:

The first time I saw it was at an RAD gala in London organised by Fonteyn in the sixties. It was danced by Violette Verdy and Edward Villella. I was bowled over by it and them so any I've seen since (and I've seen excellent and indifferent interpretations) have inevitably been compared with them. Some of you will know whether it was created on Verdy & Villella and if not on whom.

Sorry Tattin - we posted at the same time! Verdy: correct, Ludlow rather than Villella but Villella was a great interpreter of Tschai pas (as they call it) and other roles like Rubies, Oberon in A Midsummer Night's Dream (those two created on him) etc etc....two legends!

 

Ooh, lucky you to have seen Violette Verdy herself in the role! Do have a look at the first 2 videos- do you think Nunez (first one) or Tiler Peck (second one) is closer to how Verdy danced it? 

[Lizbie1]

My bugbear is when the travelling arabesques in the female variation are cut very short - Zakharova is probably the worst offender from that list, she barely bothers with them.

 

I don't really understand why some do this, there doesn't seem to be much of a correlation with the technical ability of the dancer.

[Emeralds]

2 minutes ago, Lizbie1 said:

My bugbear is when the travelling arabesques in the female variation are cut very short - Zakharova is probably the worst offender from that list, she barely bothers with them.

 

I don't really understand why some do this, there doesn't seem to be much of a correlation with the technical ability of the dancer.

I agree- I avoid booking if she was cast to dance it.

[Silver Capricorn]

Tchaikovsky's Pas de deux is part of Balanchine's evening at the National Theater in Brno.  At last year's premiere, it was danced by Fumi Kaneko and Vadim Muntagirov, with whom Diana White and Nanette Glushak of The George Balanchine Trust worked during the preparation, overseeing the consistent preservation of Balanchine's style.  That's why I think that Fumi and Vadim's presentation of pdd was very authentic.  Marianela Núñez and Reece Clarke performed in the same program this year.  I saw both performances and subsequently, by comparing the video recordings, I confirmed that especially the male part performed by Vadim Muntagirov was technically better, Reece Clarke danced his part at a significantly lower tempo.

[Blossom]

6 minutes ago, Silver Capricorn said:

Tchaikovsky's Pas de deux is part of Balanchine's evening at the National Theater in Brno.  At last year's premiere, it was danced by Fumi Kaneko and Vadim Muntagirov, with whom Diana White and Nanette Glushak of The George Balanchine Trust worked during the preparation, overseeing the consistent preservation of Balanchine's style.  That's why I think that Fumi and Vadim's presentation of pdd was very authentic.  Marianela Núñez and Reece Clarke performed in the same program this year.  I saw both performances and subsequently, by comparing the video recordings, I confirmed that especially the male part performed by Vadim Muntagirov was technically better, Reece Clarke danced his part at a significantly lower tempo.

Would have loved to see Fumi and Vadim!

[Balletfanp]

I can’t comment on past pairings of dancers because I haven’t seen them (except in often poor quality YouTube videos). But I feel that the Tchai Pas is a piece that should be danced with complete joy, and the only current couple I have seen who do this is Marianela and Vadim. Technically brilliant from both (of course), but as well as that, danced with a sheer exuberance and joie de vivre (and huge natural smiles and obvious enjoyment!) that I haven’t seen matched by any other couple, and that makes it sparkle and fizz. Reece Clarke was technically excellent but to my mind lacked the lightness of touch required and just seemed a bit too grounded.

 

I have only seen a brief clip on Instagram of the ending with Fumi and Vadim, and they looked gorgeous, but the thing that struck me was the little touches of characterisation with gestures and facial expressions that Vadim was adding whilst Fumi danced, that I don’t think I’ve ever seen before. He has said that he likes to build stories in his head during non-story ballets and it looked as though that was what he was doing there.

 

I did see a pairing online that I thought was a big Nope from me, and that was Ashley Bouder and Semyon Chudin. She was brilliant (and obviously very familiar with it), but, whilst I think Chudin is a beautiful dancer, he didn’t seem comfortable with the choreography at all. And the fish dives were positively terrifying in all the wrong ways - he didn’t seem to be holding her properly and it looked as though she was about to come a cropper in both of them!

[alison]

Hmm, I've always regarded the "Tchai pas" as the showpiece pas de deux I never seem to recognise ("Oh, I always thought it was different from that"), because it seems to change so much from performer to performer.  I guess the above discussion explains why that is.

[Ivy Lin]

This is THE version for me:

 

[Borzoi]

Here are several couples performing the fish dives. They aren't identified, but the third couple is Suzanne Farrell (and Baryshnikov, I think). Farrell looks like she is going to plummet into the floor, head first. The clip is from the movie "The Turning Point". I remember gasping when I saw the dives. She also keeps both legs nearly straight.

[Fonty]

Having watched these clips I have an ear worm now.  Will be humming the music for the rest of the evening.  

[Blossom]

3 hours ago, Fonty said:

Having watched these clips I have an ear worm now.  Will be humming the music for the rest of the evening.  

😂 but there are definitely worse things than humming Tchaikovsky!

[Tattin]

On 03/03/2024 at 19:54, Emeralds said:

Sorry Tattin - we posted at the same time! Verdy: correct, Ludlow rather than Villella but Villella was a great interpreter of Tschai pas (as they call it) and other roles like Rubies, Oberon in A Midsummer Night's Dream (those two created on him) etc etc....two legends!

 

Ooh, lucky you to have seen Violette Verdy herself in the role! Do have a look at the first 2 videos- do you think Nunez (first one) or Tiler Peck (second one) is closer to how Verdy danced it? 

 I have taken up the challenge, Emeralds, (last night I was interrupted and couldn't continue). Verdy was petite, fast and feisty. Peck is also fast and feisty but much longer-limbed and as Blossom points out, lacks  a certain grace and elegance. Marianela is more classical and fully endowed with the qualities Peck lacks, BUT I feel, nevertheless, that Peck embodies more closely the qualities I perceived in Verdy all those years ago.  However my favourite one is the Marianela/Reece rehearsal recording. The entrechats are there -just - and the fish dives perfect.

 

Incidentally I have seen Tiler Peck's partner, Joaquín de Luz, on stage here in Spain on two occasions dancing Robbins' Other Dances, and in Paris with NYCB in Dances at a G  but not, sadly the Tschai pas.

 

[bangorballetboy]

It is worth remembering that Balanchine himself revised bits of this pd2 depending on who was dancing so, whilst there may be an original version, there is no definitive version.

[Emeralds]

17 hours ago, Borzoi said:

Here are several couples performing the fish dives. They aren't identified, but the third couple is Suzanne Farrell (and Baryshnikov, I think). Farrell looks like she is going to plummet into the floor, head first. The clip is from the movie "The Turning Point". I remember gasping when I saw the dives. She also keeps both legs nearly straight.

The dancers are: 

1) Melissa Hayden & Jacques d'Amboise of NYCB (legends) 

2) Patricia McBride & Edward Villella of NYCB (also legends)- unfortunate that the filming kept cutting away to the audience and disrupting the view of the pdd

3) Suzanne Farrell & Peter Martins (not Baryshnikov) in the film The Turning Point 

4) Patricia McBride & Mikhail Baryshnikov in a studio recording for the PBS tv channel.

 

Am afraid I didn't have time to finish watching all the others in full apart from Paloma Herrera and David Hallberg, but the other dancers are:

Paris Opera- Elisabeth Platel & Manuel Legris,

Mariinsky/Kirov- Svetlana Zakharova & Igor Zelensky,

ABT- Paloma Herrera and David Hallberg,

NYCB- Tiler Peck and Joaquin de Luz 

while the last pair are Evgenia Obraztsova & Andrei Merkuriev after both had joined - at different times- the Bolshoi from the Mariinsky.

 

Kudos to Farrell for being so trusting of Martins- she's almost upside down in those fish dives!

 

13 hours ago, Tattin said:

 I have taken up the challenge, Emeralds, (last night I was interrupted and couldn't continue). Verdy was petite, fast and feisty. Peck is also fast and feisty but much longer-limbed and as Blossom points out, lacks  a certain grace and elegance. Marianela is more classical and fully endowed with the qualities Peck lacks, BUT I feel, nevertheless, that Peck embodies more closely the qualities I perceived in Verdy all those years ago.  However my favourite one is the Marianela/Reece rehearsal recording. The entrechats are there -just - and the fish dives perfect.

 

Incidentally I have seen Tiler Peck's partner, Joaquín de Luz, on stage here in Spain on two occasions dancing Robbins' Other Dances, and in Paris with NYCB in Dances at a G  but not, sadly the Tschai pas.

 

Thanks Tattin- I thought you'd say that about Tiler vs Marianela. Both are lovely (and just to say Vadim's performance is brilliant too- can't fault him on the rest of the pas de deux which isn't his variation as he can only do what his partners are willing to do).

 

I agree that due to the speed, Tiler has to sacrifice the legato elegance that the other ballerinas (or possibly more accurately, the company repetiteurs) want to squeeze out of the pas de deux while adhering faithfully to the fast tempo of the original. Peck is still  graceful though- not many can be that neat and poised while going so fast, but it looks less elegant to us. 

 

I wasn't old enough to see Verdy dancing live before she retired but from videos of her dancing and descriptions by other observers and colleagues, the tempo when she and Ludlow danced it was quite fast.

 

NB when the music is used (as originally intended) as alternative music for the Black Swan pas de deux in Swan Lake for Odile and Siegfried, eg the Bourneister production, it is also pretty fast - not the languid and glacial pace taken at Mariinsky, Bolshoi and RB. Different choreography of course (which is easier to do briskly than Balanchine's). 

 

Edited March 5 by Emeralds

[Tattin]

Of course Vadim was superb too, Emeralds,  but I was only comparing the female dancers. 

 

I shall enjoy comparing all the other versions, some of which I have already seen. I didn't care for Evgenia Obraztsova & Andrei Merkuriev; maybe it just doesn't suit Vaganova trained dancers. What do you think, Emeralds? 

 

Yes, I was aware, bangorballetboy, that Balanchine changed steps depending on who was dancing; he was amazingly accommodating like that. It will, therefore, be especially interesting to compare the pas de deux danced during his lifetime by NYCB dancers.

[Roberta]

"In the 1962 version both dancers jump in sync, then she jumps "horizontally" and he catches her - all pretty safe. Apparently too safe for Mr. B's taste..."

 

Though it was actually beautifully danced, with Jacques d'Amboise doing all the linking steps which can be named and using the floor, not simply run run and throw his leg in the air, striving for height and spectacle and applause.   Many pairings after that simply look wild,  and there's a loss of elegance. I find so much of this in male dancing now. When we saw the Swan Lake rehearsal last week, how refreshing to see the men featured could still dance all the steps when they had to.  

 

And PS Vadim Muntagirov is another offender in the fudging the inbetween steps and not making use of the floor, which would give his dancing more depth and interest, while Marianela Nunez flaps her hands, far too wristy in that.  How much better it would have been had she not done that. So shoot me down but it's the truth. 😔

Edited March 6 by Roberta