Ballet Companies- only auditioning EU citizens

[DMumCSB2019]

My daughter graduated from ballet school and looking for company auditions. It is so disheartening having danced since 4years and working hard towards a dance career that a lot of company's aren't now accepting dancers from the UK. It looks like would have to go to USA which would be prohibitively expensive even just to audition.

Any others finding this hard to take?

[Doing Dance 1]

Yes, this is indeed heartbreaking but sadly the price we have had to pay for so called ‘sovereignty’. 
The future is bleak for our blue passport holding youngsters. 
 

[Type 1 Mom]

10 hours ago, DMumCSB2019 said:

My daughter graduated from ballet school and looking for company auditions. It is so disheartening having danced since 4years and working hard towards a dance career that a lot of company's aren't now accepting dancers from the UK. It looks like would have to go to USA which would be prohibitively expensive even just to audition.

Any others finding this hard to take?

Where is the UK getting their dancers from then? 

[Kate_N]

Let's face it, the referendum was "hard to take" and subsequent government policies have been "hard to take." I suppose people can examine their own consciences about how they voted ...

 

EU countries are only doing what is to be expected, as UK citizens are no longer EU citizens, and we face pretty much the same restrictions as any other non-EU foreign nationals.

[dancefanatic]

My DD is in her grad year now and it is heart breaking to see how even those european companies that aren't specifying EU citizens are definitely seeming to be discriminating against UK dancers because of the whole visa issue.  And what upsets us more than anything is that the UK is not doing the same in return to non-GB dancers.  Personally, I hate all forms of discrimination, whatever it's based on.  Brexit was always a dirty word to me right back when they were even discussing having a referendum and is continually proving what a shockingly poor move it was and still is.  One of my DD's friends has been offered a US contract but the cost of the visa compared to her earnings has meant turning it down.  My own DD has has UK companies interested in her but unable to help with the Visa so ended up being non-starters.  The world has gone mad, not that this helps our lovely young DDs follow the dream they have spent so many years working towards.

[dancefanatic]

4 hours ago, dancefanatic said:

 My own DD has has UK companies interested in her 

Can't edit my original post but I meant US companies, not UK!

[Peanut68]

7 hours ago, Type 1 Mom said:

Where is the UK getting their dancers from then? 

Well…. What I find absolutely absurd & frankly disgraceful is the fact that ballet is - I understand - on the list of jobs which apparently have shortage of supply (???!!!) enabling employees (dance companies) to employ dancers of pretty much any nationality.

This is ludicrous!
A loophole - set up I am guessing - to enable visas for fabulous Principal dancers to quite rightly be able to dance all over the world but this should NEVER be applied across the full sector & there would easily be routes around (just more paperwork) to still empty foreign top talent at highest levels (like companies still can employ top scientists)

But at entry level it should be restricted to employ UK dancers unless there truly is a shortage….. there is no need to employ the best of the best globally in every ballet corps… let’s face it, very few will rise the ranks to Principal…. Let dancers start in their home countries & then those who rise to the top will then go on to have international careers….

The rot starts with the obsessive overseas training culture & clearly the way sone countries view ballet as an amateur act at home yet professional overseas…. They are undervaluing their own talent & needlessly exporting a valuable commodity surely! 
Sorry - rather a few issues poorly explained but hood the gist is clear…

[taxi4ballet]

7 hours ago, Kate_N said:

Let's face it, the referendum was "hard to take" and subsequent government policies have been "hard to take." I suppose people can examine their own consciences about how they voted ...

 

EU countries are only doing what is to be expected, as UK citizens are no longer EU citizens, and we face pretty much the same restrictions as any other non-EU foreign nationals.

And are EU countries not taking any dancers from (for instance) Japan, Australia, Cuba, the USA either? Because if they are, and they are just making it awkward for British applicants, then something needs to be done about it by the dance powers-that-be. 

 

It seems to me that if EU companies are refusing to take British dancers, then perhaps British schools and companies should return the favour.

Edited March 13, 2023 by taxi4ballet

[meadowblythe]

MyDS's girlfriend is Brazilian.  They both dance in the EU (were out there when we came out of Europe).   She is on a much less favourable, month-to-month contract than my DS.  Suspect the UK dancers will be on the same.

[Kate_N]

I suspect that non-UK non-EU citizens may find it even more difficult than UK citizens to obtain EU working visas. It can be very difficult for nationals from various countries in Africa and the mIddle East, for example.

 

While we are all getting used to the lack of freedom of movement in the EU, and that is difficult, we should be aware that a UK passport and/or nationality is still one of the more privileged national statuses to have. I see this all the time in some of my students who come to the UK from various Asian & Middle Eastern countries and the restrictions they can sometimes face when applying to attend conferences anywhere outside of the UK & Europe. 

[Allwrong]

Some cheering news from a Japanese friend of DD with no EU passport: her EU ballet company were happy to wait more than six months for her visa problems finally to resolve, and she finally started her first professional contract within days of it arriving (last week  )

[Doing Dance 1]

4 hours ago, taxi4ballet said:

It seems to me that if EU companies are refusing to take British dancers, then perhaps British schools and companies should return the favour.

🤦🏻‍♂️

[MAX]

Not much luck either for English ballet dancers in this country since out of 70 dancers only 25 are British in the English National Ballet, even less likely to become a soloist since 2 out 25 only are british.

[Lifeafterballet]

The EU still manage to, and always have, hire dancers from the US, Australia and Japan for example, who would require the same visa as U.K. students. 
Maybe we have to look deeper into why British dancers don’t seem to be getting the very few contracts that are around. 
My sons EU company have continued to hire dancers from all over the world, including the U.K. They will make it happen if they really want them. 
I personally feel it’s time for British schools to be honest and transparent with students and parents about their chances of getting that dream job and help them all prepare for that very important Plan B. Sadly once your are in the ballet bubble you start to believe that commitment, dedication and hard work pays off. In our experience of ballet I don’t believe that to be true. It’s very sad 😞 but you really do need a sack of money post vocational school to even have a stab at a career. 

[FlexyNexy]

On 13/03/2023 at 09:27, dancefanatic said:

My DD is in her grad year now and it is heart breaking to see how even those european companies that aren't specifying EU citizens are definitely seeming to be discriminating against UK dancers because of the whole visa issue.  And what upsets us more than anything is that the UK is not doing the same in return to non-GB dancers.  Personally, I hate all forms of discrimination, whatever it's based on.  Brexit was always a dirty word to me right back when they were even discussing having a referendum and is continually proving what a shockingly poor move it was and still is.  One of my DD's friends has been offered a US contract but the cost of the visa compared to her earnings has meant turning it down.  My own DD has has UK companies interested in her but unable to help with the Visa so ended up being non-starters.  The world has gone mad, not that this helps our lovely young DDs follow the dream they have spent so many years working towards.

reading your comment brought back exact same experience my DD had from couple of years back. Graduated as soon as covid hit and despite having multiple passports in hand including EU passport, the only companies she was offered contracts were from USA.
Sadly, US embassy was not co-operating, closed their doors and would not offer her expedite appointment to process her visa and all it has spiralled from there. EU offered experience based contracts (non paid and financed by bank of mum & dad).....UK - never was interested in her when it came for jobs only during upper school auditions.

Sadly what we have experienced when in Europe…some companies did not even advertised vacancies, yet some no named directors would fly with selected few dancers in and out and managed to get the lucky ones in. So, in my opinion and from my DD experience you need more than passport to get that dreamed job.

[Kerfuffle]

If you are British with no EU passport what is your best option? Can a non EU dancer get short term experience in a EU country if self funded ? Is USA any easier? In this country is there any chance of employment at the ballet companies such as ENB, Northern Ballet, BRB, Scottish Ballet etc or is that totally unrealistic ? Do any of these have the equivalent of Aub Jensen at RBS? 

[Jan McNulty]

 Northern Ballet advertises auditions every year around the turn of the year.  They have closed for 2023.

[Kerfuffle]

2 minutes ago, Jan McNulty said:

 Northern Ballet advertises auditions every year around the turn of the year.  They have closed for 2023.

Their height restrictions would rule my DD out and she’s only 15! 

[Jan McNulty]

4 minutes ago, Kerfuffle said:

Their height restrictions would rule my DD out and she’s only 15! 

You asked if they auditioned and they do!

[Kerfuffle]

15 minutes ago, Jan McNulty said:

You asked if they auditioned and they do!

I know. Then I remembered the problem she’d have with height 😥

[LinMM]

It’s unusual to have height restrictions these days unless your daughter is particularly tall Kerfuffle. Most dancers don’t have a problem at least up to 5ft 8ins 

[LinMM]

I’ve just looked at the last job advertisements for Northern Ballet and was shocked to see the height restriction is 5ft 4ins!! 
But it also implied that this was with ladies in pointe shoes !! That would make them 5ft or less so can’t be correct. 
If it’s true they don’t want dancers to be taller than 5ft 4ins that’s totally absurd to me. 

Obviously it’s the males who are the problem lol!! Not enough taller ones being trained by the schools!!  
Even the Royal has taller dancers than that now though. 
Years ago the RBS didn’t like accepting dancers to train who they predicted would grow to be taller than 5ft 6ins ( they predicted my height exactly!) but thought that had all stopped now. 
 

[Sabine0308]

During Covid, I suspected that not a single company would offerJobs because they struggled financially to keep their own dancers. But Bavarian Staatsballett did hire some non EU dancers. Berlin Staatsballett has at least 5 British dancers. So it's not impossible.

[Lifeafterballet]

3 hours ago, Kerfuffle said:

If you are British with no EU passport what is your best option? Can a non EU dancer get short term experience in a EU country if self funded ? Is USA any easier? In this country is there any chance of employment at the ballet companies such as ENB, Northern Ballet, BRB, Scottish Ballet etc or is that totally unrealistic ? Do any of these have the equivalent of Aub Jensen at RBS? 

BRB recently launched BRB2 and said it was based on the two year RBS Aub Jebson program and Dutch Nationals Junior Company. This to me implies that there are positions for graduates. 
I know lots of dancers from the U.K. who are in the EU. If they want you they will make it happen. Just throw caution to the wind and send them photos and footage. From what I’ve seen a lot of companies are only doing auditions by invitation. Expect a lot of no replies and rejection but be bold and give it a go. You never know, you might be just what they are looking for 😊

[Lifeafterballet]

50 minutes ago, LinMM said:

I’ve just looked at the last job advertisements for Northern Ballet and was shocked to see the height restriction is 5ft 4ins!! 
But it also implied that this was with ladies in pointe shoes !! That would make them 5ft or less so can’t be correct. 
If it’s true they don’t want dancers to be taller than 5ft 4ins that’s totally absurd to me. 

Obviously it’s the males who are the problem lol!! Not enough taller ones being trained by the schools!!  
Even the Royal has taller dancers than that now though. 
Years ago the RBS didn’t like accepting dancers to train who they predicted would grow to be taller than 5ft 6ins ( they predicted my height exactly!) but thought that had all stopped now. 
 

That was the height cut off when my 5ft 3 Dd looked at Northern three years ago. She didn’t apply though, £££££ and it was like repeating her graduate year, and after 8 years of vocational training she had had enough 🤣

[Kerfuffle]

2 hours ago, LinMM said:

It’s unusual to have height restrictions these days unless your daughter is particularly tall Kerfuffle. Most dancers don’t have a problem at least up to 5ft 8ins 

She’s 167cm  with a slight build. Looks taller than she is ! 

[abitwornout]

3 hours ago, LinMM said:

I’ve just looked at the last job advertisements for Northern Ballet and was shocked to see the height restriction is 5ft 4ins!! 
But it also implied that this was with ladies in pointe shoes !! That would make them 5ft or less so can’t be correct. 
If it’s true they don’t want dancers to be taller than 5ft 4ins that’s totally absurd to me. 

Obviously it’s the males who are the problem lol!! Not enough taller ones being trained by the schools!!  
Even the Royal has taller dancers than that now though. 
Years ago the RBS didn’t like accepting dancers to train who they predicted would grow to be taller than 5ft 6ins ( they predicted my height exactly!) but thought that had all stopped now. 
 

I don’t think Northern’s latest audition notice had height restrictions . They did specify in 2020 but no mention of heights in this years notice .