Etiquette

[HopelessMummy]

I was wondering about this for some time. Is there an unspoken or maybe spoken rule that you must seek the permission of your dance school before you can do workshops or insight days elsewhere? I have been told two separate things. 1. It is bad form and you have to get consent from your dance school 2. It is not necessary to get consent and any opportunities to dance with other teachers/professionals is a positive. Any thoughts? 

[Picturesinthefirelight]

If you are at full time vocational school then you have to seek permission to do workshops etc elsewhere. It stands to reason that they are training you for the profession and they need to ensure you don’t receive training that will counteract what they are doing or overtrain. 

 

It never occurred to me to seek permission from local dance schools. Both my children did/do classes, workshops and shows at multiple places to fit in with our schedule etc. The only thing we never did was duplicate exam classes. Eg dd did RAD ballet, tap & modern at one school but did non exam jazz and musical theatre & summer schools elsewhere. 

[BlueLou]

In my experience, some summer schools, associate programmes or workshops require a signature from the ‘regular’ teacher indicating consent. When this has been the case, obviously I have asked the teacher. However, if her signature is not required I usually don’t bother her with it. I know that she would be supportive. 

[Farawaydancer]

I’ve never asked permission for my children to do anything. I have informed their school/teacher that they are doing something, but I’m not asking permission for my own child to do anything. That’s down to us as parents to decide. I understand it might not be the correct etiquette but it’s worked out ok for us so far and we’ve not had a problem. 

[Pas de Quatre]

I have always encouraged my pupils to go to Associate programmes, workshops, intensives etc., but suggest as a matter of good practice they check with me first.  The better schemes always remind applicants to check with their regular teacher - signatures are often no longer required if the application is online.  However, over the years I have had some pupils go off to do things without mentioning it to me, and they have ended up regretting it.  Either the scheme wasn't suitable for them at that particular time, or it was no good in the first place, just a waste of time and money!

[Colman]

I'd always inform their/our main teachers, and generally check their advice in advance. I'm not exactly asking permission, but I am giving them an opportunity to raise any issues they might have. I'd do the same with my main martial arts teachers too. If you don't value their opinion, why are you going to them in the first place?

[FlexyNexy]

We have been banned to participate in extra workshops, associate programmes even productions like EYB, LCB. I have always informed the teacher of our intensions to join extra activities (always away from school hours),  but we have been declined the opportunity. Throughout the time i have found out that other classmates have been allowed to do extra, some even missed classes because their other commitments so i put my foot down and stop informing the teacher as clearly there was no one rule for all. Without my intervension my DD would missed out on a lot.

[Colman]

33 minutes ago, FlexyNexy said:

We have been banned to participate in extra workshops, associate programmes even productions like EYB, LCB. I have always informed the teacher of our intensions to join extra activities (always away from school hours),  but we have been declined the opportunity. Throughout the time i have found out that other classmates have been allowed to do extra, some even missed classes because their other commitments so i put my foot down and stop informing the teacher as clearly there was no one rule for all. Without my intervension my DD would missed out on a lot.

 

I’d get a new teacher. 

[Farawaydancer]

1 minute ago, Colman said:

 

I’d get a new teacher. 

 

Its sometimes not quite as easy as that, especially if you live in an area where teachers/ballet classes are hard to find!

 

3 hours ago, Colman said:

I'd always inform their/our main teachers, and generally check their advice in advance. I'm not exactly asking permission, but I am giving them an opportunity to raise any issues they might have. I'd do the same with my main martial arts teachers too. If you don't value their opinion, why are you going to them in the first place?

 

We’ve stuck with teachers who are really good teachers, but don’t want to lose their pupils to other schemes and therefore don’t encourage outside participation, simply because there isn’t anyone better to take them to. 

[Colman]

45 minutes ago, Farawaydancer said:

We’ve stuck with teachers who are really good teachers, but don’t want to lose their pupils to other schemes and therefore don’t encourage outside participation, simply because there isn’t anyone better to take them to. 

 

That's not really a teacher-student relationship in the sense I'm thinking of, it's just a place you go for classes.

[Picturesinthefirelight]

Sometimes its not even just about the training.  For example this week ds has been doing a week of dance/musical theatre workshpos wioth his theatre group where they are bringing in ouitside teachers from various shows/fdance companies.  Dd will be taking part in Saturdays workshop simply because its being run by a musical theatre performer she admires and based around a show she loves.  It's a fun summer holiday thing to do.  Both kids in the past have taken part in things simply becasue they liked the people/friends etc.

[Damedolly]

At our school the kids are put forward for nothing, I have realised my kids have missed out on a lot of opportunity’s , my kids now take part and audition for programmes but I tell the teacher, I don’t ask unless it’s necessary. Im not 

 sure why it’s not encouraged. 

[HopelessMummy]

I just remember being scolded like a naughty schoolgirl by a headmaster because I had put my DD in a workshop without consent... It was horrid

[Paleblueleotard]

It wouldn't occur to me to 'ask permission', especially in school holidays. DD attends two dance schools, both know I think (one only does one ballet class at the correct level and is more a once a week type of level), plus also an associates programme at one of them. Also on occasion does holiday 'back to school' type workshops at another one locally. I am the paying customer and it is my child, so thus I wouldn't sign up to a dance school that stipulates they are to be the only dance school.

[meadowblythe]

 

From a school's point of view, with Ofsted breathing down their neck, if students are not attending school for any reason (good or other) they need a record - and there are stringent requirements for coding a student as educated offsite 

 

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/564599/school_attendance.pdf (p9).

 

Personally, I preferred my children's teachers, ballet and  state school, knew what they were up to - mainly because of courtesy but also because I didn't want to be in a position to ask my children  not to mention thngs in class.  Again just my old fashioned upbringing.  Certainly my musical DD's teachers often advised against applying for certain things, because they knew she was not, to be blunt, of the standard required at that time.  They also advised against courses where bad habits might be picked up and not corrected, and as such would be a retrograde step.  

Yes you are paying for  ballet classes, but the teacher no more has to have you in their  school, than you have to go there.   

[Pas de Quatre]

Pale blue leotard,  the trouble is it can take a lot of time for the regular teacher to get rid of bad habits picked up on some courses!

[Crystaltips]

For absences from academic school I always requested permission in writing in advance. It was always for solid reasons such as an audition. I always gave the context and always committed to catch up with any work. Timing is also crucial. Schools are often much more amenable if you ask for the last week of the school year to attend a good dance summer intensive as it doesn’t show up in their attendance records. As for dance schools that is more complicated. If yours is a school that does a lot of festivals they will naturally expect first dibs on your dc. It helps if you can show in advance how you can manage to meet all your obligations. Of course if your dance school takes an inflexible stance you may have to make some strategic choices. Always put your dc long term interests first though coz no one else will.

[Paleblueleotard]

21 hours ago, Pas de Quatre said:

Pale blue leotard,  the trouble is it can take a lot of time for the regular teacher to get rid of bad habits picked up on some courses!

 

Fair point and I guess if we went further afield that might well be an issue. However most of the regular classes she goes to, the associates she does and also the occasional school holiday one off days elsewhere are taught by ex dancers who have had a successful career in ballet before teaching. Also in the main they all trained and even in some cases taught at the same vocational school, so in theory they are all trained the same way one hopes.

[Pas de Quatre]

That all sounds good.  There have been several threads about the merits of professional performing experience v. teacher training with syllabus boards.  There are many good teachers around (and others who are not), but sometimes even high profile names without formal teacher training can cause problems.  This can be when they "give"  class with lots of exciting combinations rather than "teach" a class where they break down the steps into component parts if needed by some students.  Another danger area is giving professional "hacks" or "cheats" on how to make a movement look good, which are simply inappropriate for students who are still building the foundations of their technique.

[Ruby Foo]

19 hours ago, Pas de Quatre said:

That all sounds good.  There have been several threads about the merits of professional performing experience v. teacher training with syllabus boards.  There are many good teachers around (and others who are not), but sometimes even high profile names without formal teacher training can cause problems.  This can be when they "give"  class with lots of exciting combinations rather than "teach" a class where they break down the steps into component parts if needed by some students.  Another danger area is giving professional "hacks" or "cheats" on how to make a movement look good, which are simply inappropriate for students who are still building the foundations of their technique.

 

I totally agree with this. My Dd was at a 3 day holiday course at Easter. The teacher, a principal with the Royal Ballet, who taught them for one day only, asked the class to do fouettes en pointe... 16 to be precise. My Dd age 13 at the time, the youngest in her set, has never done fouettes en pointe, only on Demi pointe. The teacher did not ask the students for any pointe work history and did not try to break the fouettes down.... for example by putting some students on to the barre and giving a simplified version. My daughter did not attempt to do them, only the pirouette preparation. The teacher apparently did not notice and did not ask her why she was not attempting them. The class had varying ages of mostly vocational students and had been vetted on the first day by the organiser who had taken the ballet class. When I spoke to the organiser about my concerns, they told me they thought my Dd was in the right class for her standard. My Dd agreed that she felt more than comfortable with the ballet class but the pointe work was well out of her reach. Dancers, no matter how famous or proficient, who are not trained teachers can really miss some very important issues as this incident highlights, and which could lead to some nasty injuries.

[invisiblecircus]

14 minutes ago, valentina said:

Dancers, no matter how famous or proficient, who are not trained teachers can really miss some very important issues as this incident highlights, and which could lead to some nasty injuries.

 

Definitely. I have also seen some shocking practices from trained teachers too though.

Regarding the OP, there are some dance teachers who are funny about this. First and foremost, it is important that whatever you put your DC forward for is appropriate for him or her and that safe practices are adhered to. Your local dance teacher can be helpful in descerning whether an opportunity is suitable and could benefit your child. If the activity is going to be regular, it is courteous to speak to your current teacher if you're already involved in rehearsals for a show to ensure schedules won't clash.

I do think that some teachers go over the top with this though. For many years, I have been involved with Youth dance groups and projects, predominantly contemporary based. I have had parents call me saying their child would like to audition but they first need permission from their local teacher. Fine. As far as I'm aware, no local teachers said no, so we go on with auditions and rehearsals. Then, when it came to the performance, the student tells me that the local teacher is insisting to be credited in the programme against the dancer's name. This is unreasonable in my opinion.

Pictures mentioned vocational school, which is of course a different story. The schools are supposedly providing all the training a dancer needs, so it is reasonable to ensure any activity outside of that does not deter from the training they are providing. I'm afraid I have seen situations where external activities have been granted to "star" pupils and not to weaker ones who would also have benefitted because the school wanted to promote themselves by sending a top student.

[annaliesey]

On 07/08/2019 at 15:04, Colman said:

 

That's not really a teacher-student relationship in the sense I'm thinking of, it's just a place you go for classes.

 

Yes. If there’s any doubt then it’s not really a relationship imo.

 

weve ended up travelling an hour away 4 times a week to get out of a rut. 

 

My my view is a good teacher will be recommending things to you before you have even asked.

 

if they don’t want you to do things with a credible teacher and programme then I’d be asking why. 

 

Sometimes its just a policy as if every student did a whole load of other stuff willy nilly then it becomes difficult for the teacher to be a proper mentor on that persons journey and picking up the pieces as someone else mentioned. 

 

Theres so many “master classes” and “workshops” out there which are not great tbh as more focused on being selected for an Instagram feature or showing off the choreographer and we’ve taken the view to avoid these in preference for training ie; good breakdown, good corrections etc.

 

asking a 13yo to do 16 fouettes en pointe is ludicrous to me when it’s the first time that teacher has seen and worked with the child. At first glance this seems highly irresponsible. If they didn’t notice she didn’t do them I think there’s a clue there!

 

the other thing I’ve learned unfortunately too is to do some proper research on guest teachers if you can as it’ll help any discussion with dance teachers and selecting appropriate things. I’m sure in your case the RBS teacher was real but, in other cases they haven’t been what I would interpret as real claims.