ArucariaBallerina Posted April 3, 2017 Share Posted April 3, 2017 I have been reading many 'old' ballet books from maybe 50 years ago, and just wondered what happened to ballet between then and now, specifically ballet training. The average age to start dancing was at about 11, they worked at their local ballet schools for at most 10 hours a week, and then got jobs in companies at age 16? They still danced absolutely beautifully (Antoinette Sibley, Margot Fonteyn, Tamara Karsavina etc) and so I am wondering what happened, as nowadays the average is starting dance at 2 and vocational school at 11 before getting a job at 19? Also, why did the ideals change so drastically? Turnout of 45 degrees to 90 degrees, maximum height of 5 foot 6 to minimum height of 5 foot 6? Banana feet and hyper extension suddenly being very important? I don't understand really 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jan McNulty Posted April 3, 2017 Share Posted April 3, 2017 Well the job at 19 is fairly easy - education continues to 18 these days! I'm not sure when the school leaving age started to go up but my Mum left school at 14 in the 1940s! It seems inconceivable now. I also think that there has been a realisation that bodies need longer to mature and by having the extra years in training the dancer is being helped towards a longer career with fewer injuries than they might otherwise have suffered. Before Dame Ninette de Valois set up what has become the Royal Ballet School I don't think there was a recognised option for vocational dance training in the UK. Once formalised training structures emerged then I would think that with more training things like turnout would gradually change from 45 to 90 degrees. The other thing is that fashion and expectation has changed over the years. Whether the extent of the change is desirable is a moot point. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alison Posted April 3, 2017 Share Posted April 3, 2017 Didn't Beryl Grey start dancing professionally at 14, or something? I can't see that it's done her any harm Plus (principal-level) dancers used to dance rather more than they do these days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aileen Posted April 3, 2017 Share Posted April 3, 2017 Even a few years ago dancers were still joining companies at 16 (eg Marianela Nunez, Natasha Oughtred too, I believe (RB)). Beatriz Stix-Brunell (now at the RB) apparently started dancing with Christopher Wheeldon's company Morphoses at 15 (but this was in the US). More recently, Sergei Polunin joined the RB at 17, and Rina Kanehara joined ENB also at 17 following her Prix de Lausanne win at the beginning of last season. I believe that Francesca Velicu at ENB is also very young, possibly still only 17 or 18, with half a season with ENB under her belt plus some time dancing with Romanian National Ballet. However, the overall trend is for dancers to join companies later after three years at upper school and sometimes a further year in a 'post-graduate' scheme. As Janet has said, technical demands have increased over the years, and there is an increased emphasis on flexibility. With an increased amount of contemporary work in most ballet companies' repertoires dancers have to be more versatile than ever before 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pas de Quatre Posted April 3, 2017 Share Posted April 3, 2017 Also you have to factor in modern day child protection laws. They are very strict for Child Performers. So if you have a production like Billy Elliot with lots of children and rotating teams, then the framework will be in place. For just one or two members of a ballet company it may be just too complicated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
balletbean Posted April 3, 2017 Share Posted April 3, 2017 (edited) The human body evolves as well over the decades/centuries. Look at what the famous dancers from history achieved and what they are capable of producing now. Just like ballet costumes have changed and adapted to meet the needs of the modern dancer both on stage and in the studio. The same could be said for the top athletes. Usain Bolt is one example. Roger Bannister was a hero breaking the 4 min mile, the world record is now smashed with the record set at 3min.43.... I'm sure that when our children reach our ages and look back there will be yet more changes. Edited April 3, 2017 by balletbean 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theother51 Posted April 3, 2017 Share Posted April 3, 2017 27 minutes ago, Pas de Quatre said: Also you have to factor in modern day child protection laws. They are very strict for Child Performers. So if you have a production like Billy Elliot with lots of children and rotating teams, then the framework will be in place. For just one or two members of a ballet company it may be just too complicated. As part of the child licensing application process you have to sign to say that the part to be danced/acted can only reasonably be performed by a child. There is an increased expectation today that young people will get an education up to the age of 18 at least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArucariaBallerina Posted April 3, 2017 Author Share Posted April 3, 2017 In a way I wish that there was a split between ballet companies - classical ballet companies and contemporary ballet companies. Not that I'm against modern work, in fact I find it exciting, but I find it sad watching Odette thrust her leg up to her ear, and watch Aurora do so many pirouettes that she gets behind on the music. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mummy twinkle toes Posted April 3, 2017 Share Posted April 3, 2017 Sylvie Guillem was a game changer. Very, very flexible and technically proficient. Once audiences see someone like her, everyone else has to try and emulate. Just like in gymnastics, things evolve. Not sure whether Nadia Kominech(not sure spelt right?, 1970s) would achieve perfect 10s now 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alison Posted April 3, 2017 Share Posted April 3, 2017 Mummy twinkle toes, perfection no longer exists 5 hours ago, aileen said: I believe that Francesca Velicu at ENB is also very young, possibly still only 17 or 18, with half a season with ENB under her belt plus some time dancing with Romanian National Ballet. And of course Alina Cojocaru was dancing principal roles with the Kiev Ballet before she joined the Royal Ballet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArucariaBallerina Posted April 4, 2017 Author Share Posted April 4, 2017 I wish Sylvie Guillem and Svetlana Zakharova's flexibility could be what made them unique as a ballet dancer, rather than set the standard for everybody else. I mean, nobody copied Margot Fonteyn's trademark 90 degree arabesque! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aileen Posted April 4, 2017 Share Posted April 4, 2017 Most ballet dancers are very flexible these days. Flexibility is part of the whole package sought by ballet companies. Much contemporary ballet requires extreme flexibility: see some of the works of William Forsythe and the works of Wayne McGregor. It's a question of supply and demand. If there are many more aspiring dancers and students than positions in companies and schools (which there are) then ADs and school directors can afford to be very choosy and pick dancers / students with the greatest versatility in terms of technical ability, flexibility, mastery of a wide range of dance vocabulary etc. Of course, the competition for women / girls is even fiercer than it is for men / boys. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capybara Posted April 4, 2017 Share Posted April 4, 2017 On 4/3/2017 at 14:12, aileen said: and Rina Kanehara joined ENB also at 17 following her Prix de Lausanne win at the beginning of last season. I believe that Francesca Velicu at ENB is also very young, possibly still only 17 or 18, with half a season with ENB under her belt plus some time dancing with Romanian National Ballet. Rina is now aged 19; Francesca 18. Today on social media congratulations are being offered to Julia Conway who is aged 17 and has just joined ENB (from the RBS second year). 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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