MDS Funding

[sarahw]

Someone was doing a Katymac style spreadsheet this year - I wonder how it went? ?

[HAIRBELLES]

RBS Upper School is funded by MDS but for somewhere like Elmhurst that is dada funded the income threshold is lower so if you don't qualify for funding you'd be paying in excess of £26,000 a year .

[PrancingMum]

What I can’t understand is why the talk is about the number of funded places when the actual funding value will vary significantly from child to child depending on the parents’ income.  Furthermore the Government scheme has a budget attached not a places available number.  If a school gives 10 places they will not know how much this will cost the scheme until the actual application is completed and the award amount calculated.  How does it all balance?  Does this makes sense?  Does anyone have an information to help understand this?

 

Sorry just sharing my headache on this one! 

[Peanut68]

Iwrote a whole load on this on this forum around about 2 years ago as I thought this was a crazy way of going about things.....life too short to reinterate but I do think the whole funding needs a massive shape up & to be a whole lot more transparent, fair & easy to understand.

[HAIRBELLES]

Hi Newdancermum the MDS is an individual award to the dancer so depending on the school , they all have a different number of awards available allocated on talent, if you are chosen to receive an award you will pay a set contribution. From memory I think most forms will ask if you need to be considered for funding.

The dada is a "pot" of money allocated to the school or college and depending on who needs what will determine how many dancers are funded. If your DC is successful at prelim auditions the school or college send out a form and you have to indicate what income band you fall into , giving them a rough idea of how much you will need from the "pot" .

[Pups_mum]

There's no cheap way, but if you are not entitled to DaDA funding, the least expensive route is almost certainly to go for a degree course which is eligible for student finance. Or  I should say, that's the least expensive "up front" as obviously theloans do have to be repaid at some point, and they are not interest free.

The fees cap has been raised to £9250 for next year, and I imagine many institutions will make that increase. Presumably the maximum loan will increase too though. Just be aware though, that private institutions do not have to stick to the fees cap and you can only get a max of £6k fees loan for a private institution, so there can be a substantial difference to find. You do need to do your homework carefully and check every institution individually.

You can also get a maintenance loan, though this is means tested. The minimum is currently just over £3800 for students outside London - I presume its a bit more for London. (There's a calculator on the gov.uk website that will give you a rough idea of what you'll be entitled to by the way.) But obviously that's not enough to cover even accomodation, never mind anything else, so parents are going to have to make up the shortfall.

Check carefully what the accomodation costs cover too - are bills, council tax etc included. Also check if you have to pay when they aren't there - some will quote you a monthly rate that is over 10 months, others 12 months, so be sure to ask. Other costs are food obviously, transport, laundry, uniform, possibly private health insurance, contents insurance (though check what your own home insurance covers), additional trips to watch performances etc, possibly exam fees. And shoes. Do not underestimate the cost of shoes. Plus tights in fact. My DD seems to get through masses of those.

My DD is doing a degree course at a private institution, and as a rough estimate i would say that its costing me about £12k per year over her loans (she has her own car - might be less without i guess.) But I estimated it would have cost us over £30k per year at a non degree school without a DaDA. And whilst we are comfortably off, we don't have anything like that amount of disposable income. Some schools do have scholarships and bursaries available though, so that's also worth a look. We decided that DD would not apply for anywhere that we weren't sure from the outset that we could pay for, which limited her to degree courses. That's just a personal choice though, I wouldn't say that that is the right decision for everyone.

Of course what's "affordable" to one family, won't be to another, even if they are on similar incomes. Had I really wanted to, I expect there are ways I could have raised £30k per year - downsized the house, remortgaged,increased my hours, taken another job.... If DD were an only child things might have been different. But with two other children to consider, I wasn't prepared to go to such lengths, and nor did DD want me to.

On a more positive note, when you are doing your calculations, don't forget to deduct things that you will save elsewhere. No local dance school lessons was the biggest saving for us, but there were other things - it previously cost us over £800 a year for the school bus for instance. Plus I have noticed a drop in food bills, and a sizeable decrease in water usage since I no longer have someone who "needs" about 3 showers a day in the house!  Of course it still costs a lot more than having her at home, but if you factor in these savings it does make things look a bit better!

It's a very individual thing, but the best advice I can give is to do your homework before you begin, and be very honest with your child about what is and isn't possible. Good luck!

[Interested Parent]

Yes for DaDa just as Hairbelles says. School get a pot of money, they audition and list wanted students in priority order (how much they want them/talent not how much they can contribute), parents complete income forms so school now knows how much of the pot is getting used as they go down the 'talent list' offering places. When the pot runs out they may offer wailing list places. Of course some of those offers will be declined and so the money left over can be assigned to another offer on the list, i.e. a waiting list place.

[PrancingMum]

Hi Newdancermum the MDS is an individual award to the dancer so depending on the school , they all have a different number of awards available allocated on talent, if you are chosen to receive an award you will pay a set contribution. From memory I think most forms will ask if you need to be considered for funding.

The dada is a "pot" of money allocated to the school or college and depending on who needs what will determine how many dancers are funded. If your DC is successful at prelim auditions the school or college send out a form and you have to indicate what income band you fall into , giving them a rough idea of how much you will need from the "pot" .

 

I can see how the DaDA works and understand that the MDS is individual so for the schools to manage both are relatively clear and the message here is the desire for more transparency.  I have been told that some school's favour boys but even if it was true no-one would admit that. (No slight intended to all the lovely and talented DSs out there.)  For MDS with a fixed government budget how can it be managed.  If you have 10 places and they all go to parents on low income who can claim a full grant the sums needed are different from the scenario where they are only receiving a small award due to high parental income.  Then again the big scheme of things maybe it doesn't matter to the policy makers!  From what I gather talking to the Bursars at the individual schools is helpful for understanding individual circumstances.

[theother51]

I don't think that schools necessarily favour boys. Some schools such as White Lodge have a set amount of boys & a set amount of girls places so you could say that boys have an advantage in that there are less applicants per place.

 

Otherwise candidates are ranked pretty fairly.

[Peanut68]

Yes but have had from 'horse's mouth' so to speak & have seen emails sent to others (truly cannot beleive it has been committed to writing!!!) saying absolutely that if there were x no of MDS awards to give  & that same number of boys with enough talent then all the awards would go to boys as have to attract them.....discrimination? You bet that is! Do any of us do anything about it? No....as we don't want to jeopardise the slim chances our DD's already seem to have to secure that Golden Egg of an MDS.....

A total audit of the whole MDS/funding system is perhaps long overdue - not just looking at it financially but ethically IMHO

I would like to add that yes - where equal no's of places are available for girls & boys & where they can potentially all be funded (subject to residency laws & then usual means testing) then yes, it is fair. I think only RBS (& maybe Elmhurst?) fall into this category....maybe some Music institutions too perhaps? Again, too many maybes/ perhaps? All is unclear & that is a very bad thing where government funding is concerned....IMHO.

It seems nigh impossible to get any accurate data from any Government site too. Surely this concerns some department somewhere? it determines the life choices & opportunities of so many young people, it needs clarity!

[Loulabelle]

We were told quite frankly at one school that if they had an equally talented boy and girl to award one MDS to, they would always choose the boy.

[Peanut68]

I would actually also like to add that some schools make a point of stating that the awards are Talent based regardless of gender....

Edited March 1, 2017 by Peanut68

[Dreamy11]

1. Are mds's transferable once given at a particular school or do they stay solely for use at the school given?

2. Is anyone able to confirm or give costs eg at Elmhurst 6th form if not on a dada if for example boarding to include all fees so I can clearly have 1 figure to look at?

3. So Rbs upper is MDS?

Thanks

[theother51]

MDS awards are not transferable. They stay with the school.

[HAIRBELLES]

Hi Dreamy11

It is excess of £26,000 a year at Elmhurst 6th form that's boarding plus Health insurance .

[Dreamy11]

Thanks hair belles, if I do some quick calculations it appears that if a student has an mds at cut off point for dadas the increase the family would then pay for sixth form is enormous! After all those years training some children would then not be able to continue?

[Harwel]

I think it's pretty fair to say any child in receipt of an MDS is talented. There are not enough to give to every talented child and some will miss out. Dancing boys get a very raw deal (on the whole) when not at vocational school. They have to navigate less than tolerant peers (teenage kids are brutal!) less than tolerant teachers and struggle to get the quality training they need with like minded boys for competition, so that they can compete for places at post 16 schools. There are also plenty of girls at vocational school who are not making the most of the opportunities they are given when some very dedicated, talented children did not get the opportunity to go. Nothing is perfect.

[Dreamy11]

I agree harwel, some schools are perhaps more business like than others too, what do these children then do that have been on an mds but can't continye into 6th form as the increase in help from mds to dada is so different? I don't undertstsnd the transition from mds to dada!

[HAIRBELLES]

Thanks hair belles, if I do some quick calculations it appears that if a student has an mds at cut off point for dadas the increase the family would then pay for sixth form is enormous! After all those years training some children would then not be able to continue?

This is exactly what happened to my friends dd ...... Not good at all .

[Harwel]

I agree harwel, some schools are perhaps more business like than others too, what do these children then do that have been on an mds but can't continye into 6th form as the increase in help from mds to dada is so different? I don't undertstsnd the transition from mds to dada!

 

Very luckily, my ds was allowed to carry his MDS into 6th form. We would have been in that awful position of not qualifying for dada and no way being able to pay the full fees.

[Lema]

What I’ve never quite got my head around is the piffling amount they deduct from your gross income for additional children - about £2000 a year. Anyone know the rationale behind this? Are they implying that the rest of the family should be prepared to live on baked beans so that we can support dd?

Another thing I have never got my head around is the fact that they don't take maintenance payments for children living with other parent into consideration, so if you you have a DC, plus child at home plus child from previous relationship whom you pay maintenance for, the only deduction from your income is £2000!! Yet the cost of a child at home is going to exceed this amount and maintenance payments can add up to quite a lot of money depending on your income and agreed arrangement with your ex, I think it's disgusting that they don't take this into consideration!! It could potentially put some parents at a real financial disadvantage and leave them really struggling