Ballet Companies and Disability

[Picturesinthefirelight]

I too am a bit confused.

 

I understand the need for vagueness perhaps but it's very difficult to get at precisely what you are asking.

[DancingtoDance]

Thank you for Kate_Ann and Aileen for your posts.

 

Sorry for not being clear; I think I am finished asking about the specific situation per se (but feel free to give advice as I would appreciate it) - I am asking mostly about mild neurological/mild hearing/manageable psychological difficulties, in a professional ballet employment situation, but other advice would also be appreciated

 

Whether they people with mild hearing or neurological disabilities or psychological difficulties should disclose their disability and when (i.e. before the audition, if and when they land their contract or when somehow it becomes apparent)

 

What possible reasonable adjustments could the company provide, or would this not be possible

Edited March 30, 2016 by DancingtoDance

[Lisa O`Brien]

I think the part where you said about a difficulty in picking up or remembering routines would make it almost impossible to become a professional dancer,unless there was some way of the person learning how to improve on this. I`m not even just talking about a ballet dancer but any type of professional dancer. The ability to pick up routines and be receptive is as vital as having the correct physique or having plain old talent. There`s no getting away from it and I can`t honestly see how there would be any getting around it either. There are simply so many dancers competing who have the talent AND the physique AND who also pick up choreography very quickly. I may be completely wrong,but I would think something like that alone would rule somebody out as being suitable to dance professionally. Please feel free to correct me if i`m wrong anybody.

[Moomin]

 

 

 

 

I suppose, just as an audience member (not university lecturer managing this process), given that dance is a performing art, I'd be wondering why someone with some of the disabilities you list - for example, dyspraxia/dyslexia which suggest real difficulties in spatial processing & understanding, which for me in the sort of teaching I do are utterly basic to stage performance -- would want to train for a performance job, which requires a level of communication, picking up cues, quick response to chaotic change, and verbal/facial/bodily understanding that you say is limited.

There are a number of famous dancers who have made it public that they are dyslexic, most notably Darcey bussell. There are a large number of famous actors also (I believe it is actually significantly more common in actors than in the general population). I'm sure many people would presume this wasn't a natural career choice due to the necessity to read/ memorise lines etc but it is often possible to find ways of working round difficulties and the other attributes that are common in dyslexics make them natural performers. People who struggle with adversity early on often develop a resilience and determination not seen in their peers. As people have mentioned it depends on the individual but the problem is that as soon as you use a 'label' people will presume all sorts of things about you and your abilities. Interestingly, the question I have always had on application forms is ' do you consider yourself to have a disability'. Im sure a lot of people with the mentioned conditions do not consider that they have a 'disability' and could answer no. Personally I would declare it if it is something that you would need adjustments or special consideration for, but I think you could wait until you were offered the job if you stated that you were worried that it would influence the outcome.

[DancingtoDance]

There are a number of famous dancers who have made it public that they are dyslexic, most notably Darcey bussell. There are a large number of famous actors also (I believe it is actually significantly more common in actors than in the general population). I'm sure many people would presume this wasn't a natural career choice due to the necessity to read/ memorise lines etc but it is often possible to find ways of working round difficulties and the other attributes that are common in dyslexics make them natural performers. People who struggle with adversity early on often develop a resilience and determination not seen in their peers. As people have mentioned it depends on the individual but the problem is that as soon as you use a 'label' people will presume all sorts of things about you and your abilities. Interestingly, the question I have always had on application forms is ' do you consider yourself to have a disability'. Im sure a lot of people with the mentioned conditions do not consider that they have a 'disability' and could answer no. Personally I would declare it if it is something that you would need adjustments or special consideration for, but I think you could wait until you were offered the job if you stated that you were worried that it would influence the outcome.

 

Thanks for your post.

 

Just out of interest - I know about Darcey Bussell, but what other dancers/actors have made it public that they are dyslexic? Are there any other former or current BALLET dancers (I know Kathleen Rea had a similar? condition: http://www.openbooktoronto.com/news/guest_blog_dyslexic_dancer_kathleen_rea )other than Darcey Bussell?

Edited March 30, 2016 by DancingtoDance

[aileen]

An employer only has to make 'reasonable' adjustments. If the adjustments required by the applicant are not reasonable in the context of that particular employer then it is my understanding that the job offer could be withdrawn.

[DancingtoDance]

An employer only has to make 'reasonable' adjustments. If the adjustments required by the applicant are not reasonable in the context of that particular employer then it is my understanding that the job offer could be withdrawn.

 

Yes, I realised this, thank you.

[aileen]

What is your particular interest in dyslexic ballet dancers, DancingtoDance? You seem to have moved a long way from your original post which appeared to be referring to a person with an ASD.

 

I recollect reading an interview with Sergei Polunin in which he said that he did not like (academic) school work and that he was dyslexic.

[DancingtoDance]

What is your particular interest in dyslexic ballet dancers, DancingtoDance? You seem to have moved a long way from your original post which appeared to be referring to a person with an ASD.

 

I recollect reading an interview with Sergei Polunin in which he said that he did not like (academic) school work and that he was dyslexic.

 

Just out of interest, as I stated 

[straceydor]

The Hammond said that they have a higher than national (average) dyslexics.

Not quite grammatical but you get ( I hope) what I mean

[LinMM]

Like a lot of "diabilities" and I think someone has already mentioned this .....it does really all depend on the DEGREE to which an individual is affected. Many people say they are dyslexic but in fact only have a mild form of this and in such a situation it shouldn't be too much of a problem ....for a dancer at any rate.

 

Most children I've been involved with who have number dis calculus can count perfectly okay......it is the actual operations with numbers they find difficult....eg adding taking away multiplying and division of numbers .....but can count ....eg say in order 123456789 etc etc as well as the next child! Sometimes they would write the numbers the wrong way round (normal at 5 but not at 10) but none of this should affect dancing.

Diabetes and Asthma and Epilepsy could be problematic but could be managed though the person especially with Diabetes would have to be careful because in a Company with classes and rehearsals and performances the person affected would have to be very careful to make sure there were no huge gaps in meals ....which other dancers may take in their stride. Knowing someone with this.....who we sometimes had to call an ambulance for as his wife would come rushing round to say he was going into coma he always said afterwards ...that it was his own fault he knew he was taking a risk etc missing meals! Epilepsy unless very severe ...and if it was you wouldn't be seeking a job in the Dance World .....is nearly always controlled by medication. I have a cousin with this and she hasn't had a fit for over 20years now. The only time she did was when she left home in her early twenties and then she started experimenting with her medication!

I think the eye contact thing could be difficult in the Dance world ......again depending on how severe the problem actually is.

I have no idea about the rules of disclosure I'm afraid. It really does depend on how much the particular "disability" could affect yours or anothers safety mostly I would say.

The Dance world is a tough old world even for the fittest of dancers and I think at Professional level only those with the mildest of "disabilities" could survive it but it is possible I suppose.

[Anon2]

Thank you aileen for your answer.

 

This is not for homework.

 

I think I am talking more about neurological/developmental (ADHD, ASD, Asperger's, nonverbal learning disability, auditory processing disorder, visual processing disorder), psychological, specific learning (dyslexia, dyscalculia, dyspraxia), speech/language, hearing difficulties etc

 

Someone who is a capable dancer, but whose disability may potentially become apparent during training or rehearsals, and/or when being in the company of dancers or company staff while not dancing

 

Who can adapt to change fairly well

 

Also, what would you do in this situation:

 

Someone who can socialise but has difficulty reading nonverbal cues, finding it very difficult to make eye contact while talking but is able to do that while dancing, very socially/emotionally immature, weak in life skills but competent in basic and perhaps some more advanced life skills, perhaps some mild speech/language problems, inconsistent volume of voice (not on purpose), possibly some difficulty following vague instructions and some lack of clearness of speech, which is also somewhat inconsistent (i.e. sometimes clear and sometimes not, but often able to be understood fairly easily and if not, repeating oneself may make the person be able to be understood more easily)

 

Also who picks up choreography rather slowly but always catches up (yes, I realise you won't get work if you can't pick up choreography fast enough)

 

However whose condition is considered mild, can adapt to change well, copes well with the structure of a ballet class or rehearsal, is a capable dancer who can learn required pieces on time provided there are not too many ballets to learn, is able to behave appropriately in situations and for the most part does (except while socialising with peers as most people would find the person 'weird' - this is more a choice and more personality-based)

 

Thank you for any answers

 

Also, would it make a difference whether the person was a female or male?

I know there is a higher proportion of pupils with dyslexia at vocational schools as the ex head of academics mentioned it a number of years ago and I believe they are well supported through school. So having dyslexia I don't believe would be a barrier to be accepted into a vocational school and then being able to audition for companies.

 

However reading the list of other problems you describe I would question that this individual would cope with the challenges of vocational school. Vocational schools are very cloistered, with very small year groups. The children live on top of each other 24/7 and rarely get any space. Individuals I know either on the autistic spectrum or with psychological problems need quiet time alone to be able to cope with life's challenges. Of course everyone who has issues like this is an individual and has different ways of coping but the reality of boarding houses means there is only so much the staff could do to offer support. I'm imagining as a family you would need to offer extra support both physically and emotionally and having had a dd who over the previous six years has been through the ups and downs of vocational school I can vouch this is draining without her having any know problems other than the usual growing up and going through life's lessons. There have been many times over the years when I've wished we lived closer and could just whisk her away for a break. I think if she had any problems we would all have found these years near on impossible and very stressful.

 

I know of one dancer (there may be others) who didn't complete her training via vocational school but I would say this would be isolating for someone with the problems you list and may well exacerbate them making them more obvious in group situations. A company AD will look at the candidates before him at time of audition and as has been mentioned on other threads you will be one of maybe 100+ candidates. You have to have exactly what they are looking for and stand out above the other candidates to even get a second look never mind a job. If you struggle to pick up a routine quickly I imagine the stess of an audition where you are given a number of steps to perform would be unmanageable.

 

I'm thinking the problems you describe would make the journey through vocational school very difficult and would become more obvious at company audition time.

[2dancersmum]

I am in total agreement with Lisa in that the ability to pick up routines quickly and remember them is vital and to get offered any type of job as a professional dancer, ballet or otherwise, you first have to get through the audition - against goodness knows how many other dancers. A dancer does need to be adaptable also and able to make adjustments last minute to existing choreography. I'm thinking her of illness or injury just before a performance, or a stage that is smaller or larger than anticpated. I do know of a very capable dancer, who has been offered places for upper school vocational training who has additional needs and one of the main areas she struggles with is picking up choreography at speed and communication. She has improved enormously and I think with support she will cope with vocational school and training - starting at 18 but I am not too sure if she will be able to make the transition to professional dancer if she has to go through the open audition process. She would need to be spotted in class or be able to take class with a company a few times so that they could assess her and quite frankly, unless a dance was truly exceptional and a school used all their contacts I doubt this would ever happen. I know schools do get visits sometimes but the chances of being that good you are invited to join a company without audition must be close on zero.

 

On the subject of disclosing a disability to a company before or after contract - I suspect that it would have to be disclosed at the time of the contract. My DD does not work for a ballet company but when she was offered her contract she also had a long medical questionnaire to fill out and had to undergo a medical. She also had to get medical insurance. If any question related to a person's 'disability', it would surely need to be answered honestly.

[DancingtoDance]

I know there is a higher proportion of pupils with dyslexia at vocational schools as the ex head of academics mentioned it a number of years ago and I believe they are well supported through school. So having dyslexia I don't believe would be a barrier to be accepted into a vocational school and then being able to audition for companies.

 

However reading the list of other problems you describe I would question that this individual would cope with the challenges of vocational school. Vocational schools are very cloistered, with very small year groups. The children live on top of each other 24/7 and rarely get any space. Individuals I know either on the autistic spectrum or with psychological problems need quiet time alone to be able to cope with life's challenges. Of course everyone who has issues like this is an individual and has different ways of coping but the reality of boarding houses means there is only so much the staff could do to offer support. I'm imagining as a family you would need to offer extra support both physically and emotionally and having had a dd who over the previous six years has been through the ups and downs of vocational school I can vouch this is draining without her having any know problems other than the usual growing up and going through life's lessons. There have been many times over the years when I've wished we lived closer and could just whisk her away for a break. I think if she had any problems we would all have found these years near on impossible and very stressful.

 

I know of one dancer (there may be others) who didn't complete her training via vocational school but I would say this would be isolating for someone with the problems you list and may well exacerbate them making them more obvious in group situations. A company AD will look at the candidates before him at time of audition and as has been mentioned on other threads you will be one of maybe 100+ candidates. You have to have exactly what they are looking for and stand out above the other candidates to even get a second look never mind a job. If you struggle to pick up a routine quickly I imagine the stess of an audition where you are given a number of steps to perform would be unmanageable.

 

I'm thinking the problems you describe would make the journey through vocational school very difficult and would become more obvious at company audition time.

 

Thank you, I am talking about an individual who likes socialising with somewhat of a 'weird' personality, mostly because of far-fetched creativity and talking about these topics (but then again this is by choice), however I do understand what you mean when you say the vocational school can only offer so much support and issues may become more obvious at company audition time.

 

As for dyslexia, I believe in the Royal Ballet School admissions policy (of course providing the student meets the requirements) for the interview and academic task at White Lodge or predicted or actual results (e.g. at GCSE or A Level) the only question they are looking at is whether they can provide adequate support, that they ask parents to disclose any disability or special educational need their child may have and are committed to 'dealing appropriately and supportively' in the admissions assessment process and that they accept students with dyslexia, English as an additional language and specific learning difficulties and no candidate should be discriminated because of the aforementioned difficulties (dyslexia, specific learning difficulties and English as an additional language).

 

http://www.royalballetschool.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/Admissions-Policy.pdf

[Picturesinthefirelight]

I am fairly certain that dds school would be able to deal with this

 

However what the child may find difficult is the not picking up choreography quickly & not understanding instructions (they will be given clearly & in a non figurative way) there are several dyslexic children at the school & Dd is not the only one on the spectrum (one such child has now left to attend a different upper school). The senco is fabulous.

 

In fact the school would be wonderful for Ds (better than his academic school) - he could audition as a drama student) however unlike Dd he would not cope with the longer days & travel/being away from home. For dd this is not an issue.

[Kate_N]

Thing is, that while mild dyslexia is generally something pupils and students can find ways to deal with coping strategies, there are some versions of dyslexia as a learning disability which are part of a syndrome which can include dyspraxia, and difficulties with visual and spatial processing. So this more pronounced form would, I think, make vocational training & professional employment difficult.

 

It's just very difficult to advise you in the way you want to be advised. You seem to be seeking a particular answer. We can't give it to you.

[DancingtoDance]

Thing is, that while mild dyslexia is generally something pupils and students can find ways to deal with coping strategies, there are some versions of dyslexia as a learning disability which are part of a syndrome which can include dyspraxia, and difficulties with visual and spatial processing. So this more pronounced form would, I think, make vocational training & professional employment difficult.

 

It's just very difficult to advise you in the way you want to be advised. You seem to be seeking a particular answer. We can't give it to you.

 

No I am not seeking a particular answer, just looking for opinions/advice, but I see what you mean

 

So I think more than anything it is how the disability affects the person individually, what coping strategies the dancer has and the degree of the disability?

[Picturesinthefirelight]

I've been fairly open but in fairness to Dd I can't go into that level of detail on an open forum.

[DancingtoDance]

I am fairly certain that dds school would be able to deal with this

 

However what the child may find difficult is the not picking up choreography quickly & not understanding instructions (they will be given clearly & in a non figurative way) there are several dyslexic children at the school & Dd is not the only one on the spectrum (one such child has now left to attend a different upper school). The senco is fabulous.

 

In fact the school would be wonderful for Ds (better than his academic school) - he could audition as a drama student) however unlike Dd he would not cope with the longer days & travel/being away from home. For dd this is not an issue.

Thank you and I see your point about picking up choreography, but the choreography aside would this be different in Upper School, company auditions and/or contract time (if it happens, that is)?

 

I am talking about a dancer who still has a few years, but only a few

 

I think non figurative, fairly clear and not too confusing/advanced wording will be okay

[DancingtoDance]

I've been fairly open but in fairness to Dd I can't go into that level of detail on an open forum.

Ok thank you and I understand, all posts/advice by everyone has been useful

Edited March 31, 2016 by DancingtoDance

[Picturesinthefirelight]

I don't see that it would be different but to answer fully with examples would potentially identify children & teachers/dancers who I don't have the right to identify.

[DancingtoDance]

I don't see that it would be different but to answer fully with examples would potentially identify children & teachers/dancers who I don't have the right to identify.

 

OK I understand, what do you mean when you say 'you don't see it would be different'?

[Picturesinthefirelight]

Well in school the children are training do they are being tsught to do all the things necessary to be able to have a career dancing (though we all know how precarious that is). During training the teachers help them to overcome their particular issues & difficulties. We all have different ways of learning so a variety of methods are used.

 

But ultimately it comes down to can they do the job or not? For all children, not just those with a diagnosed need.

 

My dd for example if you give her a string of moves she is able to translate those into steps (move it showed us how important that's going by to be). If a child can't do that in a class or audition they will be stuck. If they can't remember a combination in a class or audition they will be stuck. She reckons she may never be a soloist but she could be a darn good swing as she generally knows everyone's choreography not just her own.

[alison]

I'm not going to try and answer the OP's original question, since I'm not sure exactly what it is , but reading this thread has made me think of the following points relating to a range of disabilities which may or may not have been mentioned.

 

First and foremost, how is the person in question to be supported if s/he doesn't mention the disability, whatever it may be, and however severe it may be?  And I can't see that any employer would be pleased if someone concealed the fact that they had a disability which affected their ability to do the job.  As with all conditions, the level of severity and the ease (or lack thereof) of management will be determining factors, but:

 

Diabetes - as this was mentioned: Stuart Cassidy, former RB principal, had diabetes, and talked about its management in various interviews.  I think, though, that he was unusual in that he developed late-onset "childhood" diabetes rather than the "adult" type (can't off-hand remember whether that makes it Type I or Type II?).

 

Hearing problems: hearing aids are frequently so small these days that this might not be a particular difficulty, unless there is perhaps more of a problem with amplified music, for instance.  Again, mileage will vary ...

 

I think that a couple of years ago (perhaps Janet will remember, if she was "on duty" that day?) there were a couple of links to articles on dancers/dance students who had managed to overcome or at least cope with conditions which might have proved an impediment to a dance career, but I can't remember what they were.

 

I was also wondering whether a small company might be easier to deal with?

[FullContretemps]

Ooh what an interesting topic. Not sure I can be of much use but will throw my two pence in. Like everybody else I think the important thing here is whether the person is going to be able to do the job or not. Yes, companies and businesses are required to make reasonable adjustments, but there are people who aspire to a dancing career who, for so many different reasons are not suitable. If a person is going to consider joining a company they need to be pretty confident that they can do the job to a high standard most of the time. I think that with regard to reading notices and things that ought to be considered a reasonable adjustment, but if the person requires an hour a day away from people to keep their stress levels under control, that might be reasonable in some settings but probably not a ballet company.

 

It also depends a lot on the atmosphere of the company and their attitude. Are the dancers supportive of each other or is there a more edgy competitive side? What are the management like?

 

On a personal note, I can't give any insight into the dance world, but I was diagnosed with ASC (AS) a few years ago in early twenties. I don't tend to disclose (I was told it's up to me whether I tell people or not) immediately. When I nannied I didn't disclose because I knew myself and I knew there wouldn't be any related problems with the job as I didn't have to interact with others during the day much and could run things as I liked. When I moved into nursery I waited a month to size up what the people were like. I felt supported, part of the family and trusted them, so I told my boss, just in case anything ever happened - I didn't expect it to but thought there was a small chance. We only told the two or three people that I worked closely with and nobody else had to know, but I felt that after I told them they were very understanding, and when something did happen and I had a bit of a shutdown at work they didn't really understand, but gave a me a bit more leeway and kindness than otherwise I might have received. I've recently started a new job in a school and haven't disclosed yet as I'm not sure how they'll take it, but I think I would like to when I find an opportunity.

 

So really, can't give any concrete help other than to say, get the person to think about what their particular needs and difficulties would be, whether they could realistically do the job (if I were a better dancer I think I would do quite well in theatre because I love the environment, I feel fulfilled when I'm there, it's my special interest/thing etc), and whether or when to disclose (what would be the benefits/drawbacks?).

 

I've just splurged some thoughts so not sure if I've said what I wanted to but maybe something there will be helpful food for thought

[Jan McNulty]

FullContretemps thank you for sharing.

 

My one concern about non-disclosure of whatever it is you don't want to disclose (doesn't have to be a disability) could lead to dismissal if it is found out, even if nothing has happened.  It is a matter of trust.

 

Best wishes with your new job.

[Moomin]

You're only under an obligation to disclose if it is a health and safety risk. If asked directly on an application form you must not lie but can ignore the question. You couldn't be dismissed for the non disclosure if neither of these applied although if your performance of the job role was inadequate you wouldn't have the rights given under the DDA.

[DancingtoDance]

Thank you for all your answers/advice; I have come to the conclusion that if a dancer chooses to disclose their disability it would be safer to disclose at contract time (if the dancer gets a contract) instead of before. I wonder what do others think about this? I know Moomin said s/he thinks you could wait if and until you get offered the job.

Edited June 9, 2016 by DancingtoDance

[Lisa O`Brien]

Years ago I enrolled on a childcare course at my local college. About two years earlier I had been referred to a psychiatrist by my GP for my continuing depression and anxiety. Despite being on medication for years it just never went away.  [Turns out I also have Social Phobic Disorder and at least two other similar conditions as well, one was something to do with cognition.]  The depression is /was treatable but the Social Phobia and other conditions should have been dealt with when I was a teenager,when they first developed,and there was nothing anybody could do with a woman in her forties,as my personality was "set" for life. He told me quite frankly, that I will have these conditions for the rest of my life, which indeed I do have. Now fast forward a few years, and I decided to try my very best to overcome my anxiety and social phobia by enrolling on this course. [i didn't last very long at it,sadly. I just couldn't cope emotionally at all]. But the point I am trying to make here is, on my application form to apply for the course, I added an additional part about the 6 or 7 psychiatric sessions I had had, and what was disclosed to me. I felt it was SO important, as I would be on placement with children, that the college were aware of my mental health background from day one. The course co-ordinator said I should be fine and she couldn't see there being a problem in doing placements at Nurseries [which there wasn't]. But there is just no way I would have enrolled on a course where I had access to other people's children on a regular basis If I had not first disclosed what I did. I understand the situation you are referring to is training and working in the performing arts, not working with children. However, I just wanted to give you my story and how I dealt with disclosing things. I was upfront and honest right from day one at college. 

[DancingtoDance]

Thank you Lisa O' Brien for your answer, it is greatly appreciated. But what are your opinions on waiting if and until you got offered the contract to disclose in a ballet company situation (I had come to the conclusion that it would be safer to wait until you get offered the contract)?

Edited June 10, 2016 by DancingtoDance

[DancingtoDance]

Like a lot of "diabilities" and I think someone has already mentioned this .....it does really all depend on the DEGREE to which an individual is affected. Many people say they are dyslexic but in fact only have a mild form of this and in such a situation it shouldn't be too much of a problem ....for a dancer at any rate.

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The Dance world is a tough old world even for the fittest of dancers and I think at Professional level only those with the mildest of "disabilities" could survive it but it is possible I suppose.

 

I do agree it all depends on the degree to which an individual is affected, however this could vary between dancing and non-dancing hours. For example, a dancer who can focus during class and rehearsal but has difficulty focusing otherwise.

Edited June 10, 2016 by DancingtoDance

[Jan McNulty]

Thank you Lisa O' Brien for your answer, it is greatly appreciated. But what are your opinions on waiting if and until you got offered the contract to disclose in a ballet company situation (I had come to the conclusion that it would be safer to wait until you get offered the contract)?

I suspect the offer of the contract could be withdrawn.

[aileen]

I would be inclined to wait until an offer of a contract had been made. However, I do wonder whether the person's difficulties would become apparent during the audition anyway, if not actually during the class and solos then whilst the person is waiting around during the audition. A lot of recruitment goes on gut instinct and whether the applicant 'appeals' at some unconscious level. Then employers take a view about whether a person will fit into their organisation. I have a feeling that this person will reveal his or her, let's say, unusual personality at the audition even if s/he tries to hide it and the AD and his/her staff will either accept the person's 'quirkiness' or find it off-putting. As others have said, it's all a question of degree - and how good the dancer actually is. If you are exceptional then allowances are more likely to be made. If you're not then the AD would probably prefer to find someone else. 'Reasonable adjustments' is a very elastic term in the context of a ballet company and I think that it would be relatively easy for a company to claim that they could not be made given the demands of the job.