Balletmum4ever Posted September 7, 2015 Share Posted September 7, 2015 Some help please for a dance world novice! My DD, aged 9, loves dance. With the encouragement of one of her local teachers, she has recently started to think more seriously about dance as a career and is expressing a desire to apply to vocational schools at Year 7. She is currently attending our local dance school and is doing 2 RAD ballet and 1 ballet technique class per week plus ISTD tap, non-syllabus jazz and a street dance class. She's started doing holiday workshops (eg NYB performance skills) this year and we were able to fit in a few private lessons during the summer when the studio was less busy. We have also started to look at Associate Programmes and performance opportunities (eg LCB) but in the knowledge that these are highly competitive and hard to get into. She had her first 'no' this week which, to get credit, she took incredibly well. As a mum, it's incredibly hard to know if your DD has what it takes and what these schools and programmes are looking for. I want to encourage and support her in pursuing opportunities but I also want to manage her expectations and avoid as much disappointment as possible. Before we plough ahead, I feel that it would be really helpful to get an objective assessment of her overall potential and some guidance on the routes that she should realistically explore. Has anyone gone through this with their DCs? Any advice would be welcome as I am not sure about who I could go to for this kind of advice. We are London based but also happy to travel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akh Posted September 7, 2015 Share Posted September 7, 2015 Some help please for a dance world novice! My DD, aged 9, loves dance. With the encouragement of one of her local teachers, she has recently started to think more seriously about dance as a career and is expressing a desire to apply to vocational schools at Year 7. She is currently attending our local dance school and is doing 2 RAD ballet and 1 ballet technique class per week plus ISTD tap, non-syllabus jazz and a street dance class. She's started doing holiday workshops (eg NYB performance skills) this year and we were able to fit in a few private lessons during the summer when the studio was less busy. We have also started to look at Associate Programmes and performance opportunities (eg LCB) but in the knowledge that these are highly competitive and hard to get into. She had her first 'no' this week which, to get credit, she took incredibly well. As a mum, it's incredibly hard to know if your DD has what it takes and what these schools and programmes are looking for. I want to encourage and support her in pursuing opportunities but I also want to manage her expectations and avoid as much disappointment as possible. Before we plough ahead, I feel that it would be really helpful to get an objective assessment of her overall potential and some guidance on the routes that she should realistically explore. Has anyone gone through this with their DCs? Any advice would be welcome as I am not sure about who I could go to for this kind of advice. We are London based but also happy to travel. Probably too early to tell yet, let her explore the possibilities and enjoy her dancing. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pups_mum Posted September 7, 2015 Share Posted September 7, 2015 Oh I imagine we have all wished for this at some time or other, but the whole thing is so subjective and indeed so fluid. There are stories of children receiving no after no, then suddenly getting a fully funded place at the school of their dreams, having not made finals elsewhere. Or of getting a full set of no's one year and just as many yesses the next. A child who looks as if they have "everything" at age 9 or 10 may emerge from puberty a completely different shape, burn out early or simply lose interest whilst many an "ugly duckling" blossoms into a graceful swan later on. There are so many variables and uncertainties - you could send yourself crazy trying to figure it all out. But one thing is certain. If your DD is having fun, staying healthy and making friends whilst she dances, then that is a good thing. She might become a professional dancer, or maybe it will remain a lovely hobby for her. Or in a few years she may have found a completely different passion - who knows? There are so many benefits to dance though, so itsnever wasted, whatever happens in the long term. You have a multitude of opportunities in the London area, so I would just take the ones you can and enjoy things as they are now. Only time will tell whether your DD will become a professional so just go with the flow. And remember that despite the ineviatable trials and tribulations, there are some great things about being a ballet mum. Ive made some wonderful, life long friends via my daughter's dancing and it largely happens indoors, in the warmth at reasonably civilised hours. Plus you get to eat cake and have hot drinks in nice cafes and the worst laundry you get to deal with is smelly tights. My boys hobbies on the other hand require be to stand in the freezing cold at times on a Sunday morning that shouldn't exist, struggling to get the lid off a thermos because I have lost all circulation to my hands. Then I get given a bag of muddied and bloodied team kits to take home to wash........ Ballet is AWESOME! Just enjoy the moment at this stage. 25 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harwel Posted September 7, 2015 Share Posted September 7, 2015 Very good assessment pups_mum. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Petalviolet Posted September 7, 2015 Share Posted September 7, 2015 I think someone might have mentioned cake? And lo....I emerge. Balletmumealing you aren't alone AT ALL in wishing for an objective opinion now for your child's future in dance. My DD is only slightly younger than yours and I would give anything for some sort of ballet fairy godmother to tap me on the shoulder, waive her wand, tell me it'll all be worth it/ok in the end, give me a wink..and disappear in a poof of lilac dust. Sounds to me like you are already doing all the right things (taking advice, looking into training and performance opportunities, researching here!) and are heading in the right direction but that first No might be worrying you. I think we take those No's much worse to begin with as we have such a long term adults view and I'm glad your DD didn't let it knock her down but neither should you!! Having just done the audition circuit in May for Associates I thought i'd have a better idea about DD's potential but it is always so subjective, you just don't find out what the parameters are? Was it physique? Performance? Preferred a boy? Too young? Cut of jib? Who knows. I think I'm even less sure having experienced more than I was before I started!! Good or bad, yes or no just as long as your DD is enthusiastic about auditioning and you can bear the ups and downs keep going and really best of luck x 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CeliB Posted September 7, 2015 Share Posted September 7, 2015 If there was a way to accurately assess a 9 year old's potential the person who identified it would be rich beyond compare! I think Pups_mum has pretty much covered all the bases. The only really consistent quality as far as I can tell that predicts a dancer who will become professional is the absolute desire and determination to do so. For almost every other attribute that is commonly regarded as essential there's always an example of a dancer who doesn't have that attribute and yet still made it. So I would say keep going for as long as you and she are happy and you are prepared to commit the time and money. If any of those things change, re-evaluate at that time.... 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dance*is*life Posted September 7, 2015 Share Posted September 7, 2015 Absolutely agree with the above replies - I wanted to give pups_mum two likes! As a teacher I have had all the scenarios mentioned . I had a 9 year old student who from the moment I first saw her, I knew she was future ballerina material - unfortunately she became anorexic for a while and never quite built up the strength for leading roles, but she was as beautiful a dancer as I thought she would be. Another totally unpromising 9 year old, suddenly got the message, dedicated herself completely to becoming a dancer and surprised us all by becoming a very talented professional! Another 9 year old with enormous potential hasn't turned pro because she's not interested in doing so. I would suggest you stop worrying and go with the flow! 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peanut68 Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 Oh I imagine we have all wished for this at some time or other, but the whole thing is so subjective and indeed so fluid. There are stories of children receiving no after no, then suddenly getting a fully funded place at the school of their dreams, having not made finals elsewhere. Or of getting a full set of no's one year and just as many yesses the next. A child who looks as if they have "everything" at age 9 or 10 may emerge from puberty a completely different shape, burn out early or simply lose interest whilst many an "ugly duckling" blossoms into a graceful swan later on. There are so many variables and uncertainties - you could send yourself crazy trying to figure it all out. But one thing is certain. If your DD is having fun, staying healthy and making friends whilst she dances, then that is a good thing. She might become a professional dancer, or maybe it will remain a lovely hobby for her. Or in a few years she may have found a completely different passion - who knows? There are so many benefits to dance though, so itsnever wasted, whatever happens in the long term. You have a multitude of opportunities in the London area, so I would just take the ones you can and enjoy things as they are now. Only time will tell whether your DD will become a professional so just go with the flow. And remember that despite the ineviatable trials and tribulations, there are some great things about being a ballet mum. Ive made some wonderful, life long friends via my daughter's dancing and it largely happens indoors, in the warmth at reasonably civilised hours. Plus you get to eat cake and have hot drinks in nice cafes and the worst laundry you get to deal with is smelly tights. My boys hobbies on the other hand require be to stand in the freezing cold at times on a Sunday morning that shouldn't exist, struggling to get the lid off a thermos because I have lost all circulation to my hands. Then I get given a bag of muddied and bloodied team kits to take home to wash........ Ballet is AWESOME! Just enjoy the moment at this stage. We have the same life.....DD all ballet (off to Voc school in a few hours!) & son (he is a DS too..though sense that may sadly fizzle out) is getting far too into Rugby for my liking!! I prefer the afternoon cake opportunities to the Sunday am sausage sarnies!! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balletmum4ever Posted September 8, 2015 Author Share Posted September 8, 2015 Hello all and thanks for the wise words. My DD certainly loves her dance and I am keen to encourage and support her passion as long as it may last. I think that I am exploring all the right avenues to broaden her exposure to the dance world already. I am, perhaps, being a little over cautious and protective about the likely rejection. Based on our limited experience so far, I think that I will probably take the inevitable rejections harder than my DD! What I have realised is that my main immediate concern is that she gets the best input to maximise her potential today so that she is as prepared as possible for what the future may bring. I have had a couple of really good suggestions by PM of dance school that offer excellent teaching that I am exploring to supplement her current classes which she loves. She is always keen to do more and I think that exposure to new teachers and teaching styles at this point will do her good. I really appreciate the advice. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taxi4ballet Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 At your dd's age the most important thing is for her to be having fun and enjoying her dancing, and if she does that with the very best teachers you can possibly find, so much the better! Good luck, and let us know how she gets on 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pups_mum Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 We have the same life.....DD all ballet (off to Voc school in a few hours!) & son (he is a DS too..though sense that may sadly fizzle out) is getting far too into Rugby for my liking!! I prefer the afternoon cake opportunities to the Sunday am sausage sarnies!! Ahh, no rugby players in my family ( though it's DD's boyfriend's sport.) Hockey is my youngest's "thing" and as he's a goalkeeper it can be a bit nerve wracking for me. However stressed I get watching DD dance on occasion, it doesn't come close to the angst of watching my baby dodging the high speed missiles being propelled at him! Mind you, he has just started competitive cycling too so I'm not sure which sport will win his favour ultimately. He is still absolutely hyper tonight as I managed to persuade his headmaster to let him have the morning off school to watch the Tour of Britain today, so cycling is number 1 at this moment. But then the hockey season starts on Saturday so who knows. Either way, I prefer ballet! 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MumToTu Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 (edited) Thank goodness my 7 year old DS loves gymnastics and karate and both clubs have lovely warm waiting areas and cafés :-). I am dreading the day he gets asked to play for the school football team. Edited September 8, 2015 by Snowflake 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
annaliesey Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 Oh I imagine we have all wished for this at some time or other, but the whole thing is so subjective and indeed so fluid. There are stories of children receiving no after no, then suddenly getting a fully funded place at the school of their dreams, having not made finals elsewhere. Or of getting a full set of no's one year and just as many yesses the next. A child who looks as if they have "everything" at age 9 or 10 may emerge from puberty a completely different shape, burn out early or simply lose interest whilst many an "ugly duckling" blossoms into a graceful swan later on. There are so many variables and uncertainties - you could send yourself crazy trying to figure it all out. But one thing is certain. If your DD is having fun, staying healthy and making friends whilst she dances, then that is a good thing. She might become a professional dancer, or maybe it will remain a lovely hobby for her. Or in a few years she may have found a completely different passion - who knows? There are so many benefits to dance though, so itsnever wasted, whatever happens in the long term. You have a multitude of opportunities in the London area, so I would just take the ones you can and enjoy things as they are now. Only time will tell whether your DD will become a professional so just go with the flow. And remember that despite the ineviatable trials and tribulations, there are some great things about being a ballet mum. Ive made some wonderful, life long friends via my daughter's dancing and it largely happens indoors, in the warmth at reasonably civilised hours. Plus you get to eat cake and have hot drinks in nice cafes and the worst laundry you get to deal with is smelly tights. My boys hobbies on the other hand require be to stand in the freezing cold at times on a Sunday morning that shouldn't exist, struggling to get the lid off a thermos because I have lost all circulation to my hands. Then I get given a bag of muddied and bloodied team kits to take home to wash........ Ballet is AWESOME! Just enjoy the moment at this stage. I LOVE this post ive had a bit of a wobble recently with should I be doing this it that or the other and have chilled out a bit and learned to follow my DD's lead and really listen to her a bit more and trust what she says she is enjoying and working towards Sometimes it's easy to get caught up on what others are doing so for us it's researching and keeping up with things available but not losing too much sleep worrying either 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dance*is*life Posted September 9, 2015 Share Posted September 9, 2015 (edited) Especially when you have the dubious examples of Dance Moms to follow or rather not follow! Edited September 9, 2015 by Dance*is*life 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Petalviolet Posted September 9, 2015 Share Posted September 9, 2015 *mumbling...I LOVE that programme. What's that PV? ...nothing...nothing. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aileen Posted September 9, 2015 Share Posted September 9, 2015 My dd and I love Dance Moms! On the whole, the children are delightful (and generally appear to be supportive of each other) but the adults are appalling. I'm sure that a lot of it is staged and the programmes are edited for maximum effect but everything is not made up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CeliB Posted September 9, 2015 Share Posted September 9, 2015 I just felt though I should add a bit of a caveat, that of course there's always a balance to be had between the time, effort and money put into the dancing for our DKs and the possible outcome. And of course this is why we, as parents, endlessly angst about it. It isn't quite as simple as 'keep going as long as everyone is happy'. As an example, my DS was spotted at his first ever summer school and asked to join the vocational school full time. In pondering whether to let him go we HAD to weigh up the loss to the family of his presence, the costs (it was in the States so travel was shockingly expensive), and his dramatically different life (potential downsides being loss of local friends, difficulty in adapting to a different education system and possible subsequent poorer academic qualifications etc) against the assessment of his 'potential' (whatever that might mean). So being brutally honest the assessment of potential as 'international principal dancer' does NOT lead to the same decision to commit as 'might make it as a dancer in a regional company if works hard'. Now I also accept that any assessment may be wrong and may change over time, but we can only make decisions with the information available at that moment in time. But there are moments in the journey where you have to commit to more (time, money, effort) with a concomitant opportunity cost (all the things you won't be able to afford/experience instead). At that point what you have been told about potential makes a difference to that decision and there's no use pretending it doesn't. Money time and effort are not infinite. We try to evaluate how to use them most wisely (or efficiently?) to get the best outcome (which includes happiness/fulfilment for the whole family, not just the one). Or maybe that's just me, and our family is coldly analytical! (in which case oops, hope I won't get ostracised for being so hard hearted!) 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sarahw Posted September 9, 2015 Share Posted September 9, 2015 I agree CeliB. The hardest thing I find is balancing the wants and desires of dd against the needs and desires of the rest of us. And I am also practical as well as analytical - to put it bluntly many dc in classical ballet jobs - even the few who have managed to get a permanent job in a company - are being subbed by parents to live - never mind save for a house deposit or whatever. That sounds boring, unromantic and unsupportive but if the rest of the family is to make big sacrifices to support training it is surely relevant. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexible Fred Posted September 9, 2015 Share Posted September 9, 2015 I agree Celib As much as I want my DD to follow her dream and I fully support her, when you have 3 other children to consider a line has to be drawn. Does my Dd want more classes - yes she does Does she want private lessons ( because other girls are ) - yes she does Does she get them ... No The term ' It's not all about you ' is branded around quite often in our household ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aileen Posted September 9, 2015 Share Posted September 9, 2015 Brilliant post, CeliB. I completely agree with you. It's a constant balancing act of wants and costs and every family views things differently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anna C Posted September 9, 2015 Share Posted September 9, 2015 I agree - the only point I would expand upon is how you measure success. In my humble opinion, a ballet dancer who gets a contract in a regional company, in the UK or abroad, and earns money doing what they love, is a success. The number of ballet jobs is ludicrously small, and if after training, my daughter gets a contract in a classical company, I will consider that a huge achievement. That's what she's aiming for, after all. That is not to say that we will bankrupt ourselves to pay for her training, because a career ending injury can happen to any dancer at any time. Personally, I think going into huge, long term debt to pay for any child's training puts too much pressure on not just the parents but the child too - if they lose their love of dance, they may not feel able to be honest about it if we as parents have literally invested everything into dance training. That said, we did say to our dd that if she got a funded or scholarship place, she could go - accommodation costs make things tight but it's only temporary. But each family has to weigh up how far to go, how much to invest, and balance that with the emotional and financial pressure on every member of the family. It's a very personal choice but then so is our definition of success. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CeliB Posted September 9, 2015 Share Posted September 9, 2015 I do agree AnnaC and just to clarify I'm sorry if I implied I didn't consider being a dancer in a regional company the mark of success, IMO if the dancer is happy and fulfilled and can make a living dancing then that's a success. I think what I was trying to convey is that at the earlier stages of training the level of commitment I/we would be prepared to countenance would be balanced against the chance of said professional career. So if my DK was assessed as 'exceptional', I would assume their chances of making it (at any level of career) *probably* higher than if they were assessed as 'might make it with good luck and a following wind' ( and of course with lots of 'ifs' and 'buts' thrown in for good measure....). Of course their own wishes are also very important, but if their chances were consistently evaluated as REALLY slim, I would be encouraging them to explore other careers and keep the dancing as an outside interest, and it honestly would affect how much I was prepared to fund classes, summer school and so on (given that I am not infinitely rich!) 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dance*is*life Posted September 9, 2015 Share Posted September 9, 2015 Just wanted to add that I really was talking about the behaviour of the "moms" in the American version of Dance Moms - I haven't seen the English version. Their pushy bitchiness is unbelievable and even so if I, as a teacher, spoke to our parents and children the way Abby talks to them, I think I'd be out of a job! The parents are all totally obsessed with their kids being at the top of Abby's ladder and simply don't care how that is achieved, at least that's the impression I got from the few episodes I've watched. I have to say that, reading between the lines on this site, I think you parents have it just right - supportive, nurturing, but level headed too. Bless you all - your dancing children are really lucky! PS You don't have to be embarrassed about enjoying the show - I used to get a kick out of Liberace for heavens sake! 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sarahw Posted September 9, 2015 Share Posted September 9, 2015 Anna - we have set the same boundaries. Dd has been offered a non MDS place in the past but she'll only go with an MDS (or DADA later I guess) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cara in NZ Posted September 10, 2015 Share Posted September 10, 2015 Love all the replies! Just wanted to add two things: 1. 'Potential' at age 9 is often just the right shape and musicality, ie nothing you can easily work on to improve; and 2. Injuries have been a really good reality check for us – whenever DD is sidelined with a sore knee/ankle it puts it back into perspective for me that you need to keep their lives broader than just dancing. The other thing i agree on is that the kids who 'make it' seem to have a drive and motivation that is unusual. My DD is talented but not 'driven' – loves her dancing and competitions but doesn't want to do this as a career. Now I've got used to this idea, it makes life much simpler and we can just enjoy these years! 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katymac Posted September 11, 2015 Share Posted September 11, 2015 Yep - injuries First week of college & she has torn something!! So the entire summer has been around developing transferable skills, just in case;this injury seems minor - but the next one? or the one after that? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Circe Posted September 11, 2015 Share Posted September 11, 2015 You have my sympathies katymac as my dd also has an injury. It does bring home just how precarious the dance profession can be. Fingers crossed for a swift and effective recovery. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loulabelle Posted September 11, 2015 Share Posted September 11, 2015 My DD has an injury first week back too! Not as though she hasn't danced all summer, just one of those things I guess 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katymac Posted September 11, 2015 Share Posted September 11, 2015 Oh dear - I hope they both get well soon as well I wonder if the injuries could have been anticipated/preventable? (I haven't had the full tale from DD yet) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loulabelle Posted September 11, 2015 Share Posted September 11, 2015 Thank you Katymac, hope your DD is better soon too. Sounds like my DD was merely clumsy. They were doing the Cygnets in Rep class and she tripped over her own foot and sprained her ankle, just bad luck and clumsiness!! It does always seem to be her though............................................. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katymac Posted September 15, 2015 Share Posted September 15, 2015 How are the injuries going ladies?y DD was Tap dancing while sitting down today - she is going stir crazy I can't see her doing pointe any time soon tho' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loulabelle Posted September 15, 2015 Share Posted September 15, 2015 Ohhhh DD is very fed up Katymac and it's only been a week! Sitting down tap sounds like my sort of tap though???? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katymac Posted September 16, 2015 Share Posted September 16, 2015 DD wasn't too impressed by it - but it was better than not dancing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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