CeliB

out of interest I once had a quite snippy person argue with my usage of my title Dr (academic) as he believed it was misleading and should only be applied to medics. So I looked up the origins of the title and in fact the usage of Dr for people with higher academic study predates the use of Dr for medically qualified people by some 500 years!! So it's the academics who are 'real' drs if it comes to an argument!! I too have come across female surgeons who call themselves Mrs..

sorry- just to clarify I meant energy as in 'sports' drinks with sugar and electrolytes/vitamins- nothing with caffeine in! DS uses Gatorade (he's in the states so it's the most commonly available energy drink- perhaps here something like lucozade sport would be similar). 7.30 if you last ate at 4 seems a long time to me. But it may be a red herring - I only suggest it 'cos your problem sounds so like my son's..... worth a try anyway!

Is it quite a long class? or happening a long time since you last ate? I see your comments about improving your diet but you have to be careful not to under-eat as low blood sugar and dehydration both have a massive effect on concentration. I only suggest this as my DS was having a very similar problem- especially losing focus on getting to centre work (having used all his energy up at the barre). I advised him to take an energy drink and sip a little in between each exercise, so that over the course of the class he got some more energy and a big hit of water (about a litre). Bingo, problem solved. So successful his GF started doing the same and said it had a massive effect on her energy levels during rehearsal/performance. I wouldn't normally push the idea of energy drinks as for general usage they are just a big hit of unnecessary sugar, but if you are doing ballet you can't run on empty....

will pm you thequays so not to hijack the thread!

We seem to have been incredibly lucky as DS has never been given a hard time about ballet- he was lucky enough when smaller (10-12) to have an all boy class - occasionally at junior school he had some negative comments but he didn't seem in the slightest bit bothered ... Once he got to 12 he was in a one boy one girl class anyway. All his mates at senior school knew he did ballet and clearly weren't bothered (his best friend, who despite the distance is still his best friend, even came to see ENB with us as a treat last christmas and really enjoyed it). When he got the scholarship to vocational school in yr 9, several year 11 children that he didn't even know come up to congratulate him. On the other hand DD who started ballet at 3 and still dances for fun had a sudden aversion to all things pink aged 7 and insisted on wearing blue leo and black tights/shoes etc. She was the only child in her class at school wearing boxer shorts in year 2 and wore all her brothers clothes up until age 11 or so. At senior school in yrs 7 and 8 she was known for being so good in rugby that when she ran into a tackle other players would just drop the ball and run away. But she ended up slightly bullied for being too tough so gave it up sadly.... So whilst DH and I are rather proud of the lack of gender stereotyping in our household I would say on balance it is DD who has had the worst of it.....!!

I recall when DS was about 13 he was given a really low term report for dance- the reason given was that he felt DS, because he was so talented, should have been able to drive his group's performance forward, despite DS being put with a group of boys who had as much interest in dance as my cat. Essentially he was implying therefore that DS at 13 should be capable of managing a group of difficult students that he (the qualified dance teacher) was not capable of managing. I just rolled my eyes and bit my tongue....

I can highly recommend Fiona Foster (http://www.fionafosterballet.com/#!costs/c12c8) who taught DS and DD when they were little - I found her classes much more relaxed than many others I tried (and lets face it when they are little what you mainly want is for them to have fun)- I do recall that of her boys class (aged 9/10 ish) they almost all got distinction in their RAD grade 1, so I think her technique must be good. She teaches in East Dulwich....

can recommend Kirov as DS has done the SI twice (as well as being at the full time academy). he has enjoyed it immensely each time he has done it. The girls teachers have been consistent than the boys but there may be a few changes in the air- if you want to pm me once DS has been there for the new term for a bit I am sure he can give a good account of the faculty as it stands for the SI. I would say that Mme Dellas (AD) is really impressive - DS had one class with her just before the end of term and said it was the best class he had ever taken- so I think she really knows her stuff- the new boys teacher she has engaged is apparently astounding and I really trust her judgement. any specific queries feel free to ask

Reading this thread i thought maybe i should chip in in case anyone ever thinks about vocational school abroad. I know it's rare that british dancers consider this, but DS only really clicked with ballet once he started vaganova training so when the possibility arose that he might be good enough for a career there wasnt really a uk option. DS has full scholarship to washington vaganova school but this means full artistic scholarship and the academic and boarding fees are means tested. Plus we factor in trips for us (at very least one of us and hopefully both and occasionally other children) to visit and see him perform. And he has Thanksgiving (a week off only 3 weeks before christmas break- what a nightmare) as well as christmas, spring and summer breaks. He has to do summer school as the break is so long (14 weeks). I think we probably hit the record for distance and cost of travel! As for pocket money this is high- USA is really expensive (or maybe its just washington) so currently he is on 20 dollars a week. I suppose I dont feed him and he rarely buys clothes other than ballet kit, but I do send parcels (american chocolate is terrible!). I think initially we compared the cost with what we would have to pay RBS if we were measn tested and it was about the same but in the 3 years DS has been there the flights have almost doubled in price. As I mentioned on another thread his most recent SI despite being fantastic in all ways was astonishingly expensive (even on a full scholarship). Maybe European schools might be less expensive, particularly on travel, but certainly the hidden costs of USA have been far greater than anticipated. Having said that we dont regret a penny (but ofcourse you can only say that if you have the pennies in the first place!!)

Hi all, Just thought whilst I had a moment I would post a brief review of Ellison Ballet SI. DS (almost 17) spent 6 weeks in New York at this SI; 4 weeks general plus 2 weeks Pas de deux intensive. Were it not that he has a new (internationally highly regarded) teacher at Kirov USA (his year round school) he would be lobbying to stay at Ellison. He worked amazingly hard and learnt huge amounts. Training is Vaganova based and there are lots of reviews on the USA version of this forum but I thought it worth putting one here for anyone in the UK who is interested in Vaganova training. I had never heard of Ellison but the AD at Kirov recommended it. DS couldn't be more complementary about quality of teaching. He also loved being in NYC (he partied with ABT dancers, made $30 busking in Times Square with his guitar, shared an open ballet class with Misty Copeland, spotted Daniel Radcliffe, James Franco and Jeff Bridges hanging out on the streets and had a generally all round fabulous time). From a parental point of view the cost (even on a full scholarship) was eye watering- the hostel is self catering and although there is a little kitchen its the equivalent of buying your supplies in a Mayfair deli. I would say if you are from abroad it only suits older students as they are given pretty much free reign- DS has been independent abroad since age 14 so he had a ball but it wouldn't suit younger children or those away from home for the first time. But from the teaching point of view this SI is I think the best he has ever done.

Apart from all the wonderful advice already given I just wanted to comment that part of what is making you doubt yourself is the idea that you will never get beyond the corps. I wonder who said this to you and at what age- just because I know there have been examples of others who were told they would never make it but just decided to keep going because it was their passion, and in the end achieved far higher than had been predicted. And you will never know how high you could have gone if you bale out early. It's one of those horrible dilemmas and we are all facing it all the time (apart from those whose DKs have already 'made it'!)- is the sacrifice worth it? Will our DKs end up consigned to being third spear carrier from the left for ever after the years and years of effort and sacrifice? How can we predict whether the vast effort and funding will result in a job? I think the only thing we can say is there are no certainties, so if you do keep going it has to be because you can't bear the idea of doing anything else. And with the knowledge that if at 18/21/22/24 you decide to give up because you haven't achieved at the level you wanted then you are still young enough to change - at your age I know it feels like 21 is virtual retirement age but honestly it is still early enough to start something new, and you will be welcomed anywhere because of the discipline and work ethic you have learnt from ballet. With our DS we have no idea where he will end up, but we have always felt it is better to try and fail than not try at all and spend a life of regret thinking maybe you could have made it.... Good luck with your decision.

My experience of DSs local dancer teacher is that she actively identified other classes DS could go to in order to develop (particularly because she coudn't give him more than a certain number of hours and also she felt after a certain age he needed input from a male teacher). She found him several associate classes at Legat and then London Russian, and then subsequently advised him to apply to summer school at several international SIs and, having done so advised him where to go. She has been nothing but supportive and encouraging of his career and more than delighted when he got a place at vocationals school. He still attends her classes in the holidays and they often email eachother during the year to catch up, and gives us lots of advice about career options and his progress (it's good to get a second opinion as he is in the States so we don't get a lot of opportunity to talk to his teachers there). I acknowledge she may be exceptional, but I would certainly hold her up as the gold standard of how to develop your students to their full potential. And the best teacher is one who knows their own limitations.

I think you may find that many schools in the USA (if your net is that wide) has an expectation that you will attend one of their summer intensives and any offer of a vocational place would be consequent upon that. But I suspect if you call them up and send a DVD audition they might consider it at other times.....Especially if you have a well respected ballet teacher vouching for you.....

Oh dear I really feel for you. I hope there is someone looking after you too (or at least you can squeeze some time to look after yourself a bit)- it's very easy to think about everyone but yourself (sort of comes with the territory doesn't it?) especially when you have the adrenalin of a major event like an operation- but if you get spread too thin and don't try and get some time to relax (even if it's just some space to have a bath with a good book- or whatever is your 'thing') you will be the next one down with a virus! Sending lots of virtual support to you and your family. x

if you go to Drury Lane there are quite a few dance shops- I was there with DS a month or so ago and there's a lot more than just dancia (one is capezio I think - try googling drury lane ballet shop then you can ring ahead and check what they have in the way of stock before traipsing over there)

also cant submit without filling in the psychological problems question and there isn't a box for 'none'!

I have to say I am also quite appalled that DSs ballet school does NOTHING to help them make an audition dvd. They have to do it themselves (mostly by propping their laptop up in the dance studio and filming themselves doing class). Although DS is quite sanguine about this I can't help wondering why the school (in whose best interests it must be for the students to do well) don't help in any way. Or maybe they have found it more useful to concentrate their efforts on ringing up the DNB etc! Yes DH has more front than Blackpool- and coming from the film profession is used to working with big name actors, so not in the slightest bit intimidated by those in the higher echelons. I would have been cowering in the corner pretending to be a chair or something- which is why I never go to these things!

DH took DS and his girlfriend to Dutch National Youth company a month or so ago, as she is due to start there in August. She got offered a contract after sending in a dvd audition and her teacher calling the director. DH had the opportunity to quiz the AD of the youth company in great detail about the process they use. He said they have around 2,000 applications for their 12 places. He said they do go to competitions but in his opinion competitions are for the people who are not at big name vocational schools to get noticed-either to get a scholarship to a big name school or an apprenticeship. If you are already at a big name vocational school he thought there would be no point doing a comp as most ADs (certainly he included himself in this) would almost certainly look at an audition dvd if you sent it in. I am not sure what he included as 'big name' as DH only asked him if he included DS's school in that category and that is not a UK school so I can't give you any intel about UK (but surely RBS at very least must be included). For us we were reassured that DSs school's decision not to field students to the competitions would not harm his chances; having said that this is only one ADS so maybe the others have different views. Not sure if this helps or not!

yes agree some clif bars are a bit dry but DS says the mint choc ones aren't so bad- I think you have to experiment a bit. Bro is also military fit (just about to commission out of sandhurst into the paras) and drinks a lot of protein shakes but DS finds making them up a bit fiddly. Recently he has struggled with fading part way through class so I suggested gatorade (he seems happy to make this up as it only requires water so he doesnt have to go to the kitchen for milk) and this has made a huge difference- so much so that his girlfriend has taken it up too- what is good about it is that its easy just to sip continuously so they get hydration as well as some energy- I suspected a lot of the muscle tiredness was lack of liquid- this seems to have done the trick (GF used it through act 3 of Don Q which is pretty demanding- she said it made a massive difference). Bro also like the nuts seeds and chilli mix Holland and Barrett do (I'm partial to it myself but cant afford to eat too much as I am NOT military fit!!!!)

in response to aileens comment on the amount of other dance forms taken and showcased at overseas schools- at DSs school they do almost exclusively classical ballet training and I don't think they do much more than one class a week in other dance forms and perhaps not even that in the lower years. They will sometimes learn different dance styles as part of an overall performance (eg last spring performance they did an act of Don Q which has some spanish dancing, and also did some contemporary pieces). I don't think there have ever been any traditional dances in the shows I have seen unless (as in Don Q) they are part of a ballet. The matinee show usually has had more dances from the younger students- but again almost exclusively classical ballet (eg my DS's first perf he did Nutcracker PDT, this year some of the younger students did the ribbon dance from la fille mal gardee). BUT they do often do an entire act of a ballet and then almost everyone is involved (they just don't have enough dancers not to include them!). I guess they may adapt the choreography to the younger dancers? I don't know the ballets well enough to know. And the show is clearly designed to show of the most accomplished dancers- so the really exceptional ones will always get the solo part, and the older students dominate the show. I think they work on the assumption that everyone will get their chance once they get to the upper levels, as ALL the older dancers will get at least one dance where they are one of no more than 3 or 4....

My younger bro' who does a huge amount of exercise swears by clif bars- they are designed for people doing gym and such like so are quite balanced nutritionally. DS also lives off them as vital snacks to keep him going between classes.... I think they are American so a UK version might be cheaper- you could ask in Holland and Barrett they do quite a lot of exercise nutrition stuff...

oh that sounds horrid. I once summoned up the courage to go to an aerobics class advertised as suitable for beginners. I am an extremely shy introvert so you can imagine it took some nerves for me. I went and the class was clearly full of people who had been attending for months so the teacher didn't explain any of the individual movements, only the sequences. I spent 45 minutes essentially spinning round in a circle trying to work out what on earth to do. By the end of it I was close to tears with humiliation. Needless to say I have never ever done aerobics again. So who was at fault- me or the teacher who advertised as a beginner class and then didn't support the beginner? A teacher's quality is not about how 'lovely' they may appear but in how well they can teach all people at all levels. Please don't be put off, or feel the fault was yours. I wish you all good luck in finding someone better.

its not so much the poaching I question as the credit they take for their students success post US, when many of those students had the majority of their training elsewhere. And my comment reflects in part my own frustration with the difficulty in really evaluating a school's quality of training based on post 16 success when they didn't train all those students prior to age 16.... to be honest schools should actually publish their outcomes based on the year group they accepted age 11, as this would be a far more comparable group (and they can't complain about physical changes as surely all schools have to cope with this same issue so again would be comparing like with like).

RBS Upper school guilty?

I think what I have been so impressed with in regard to a good teacher is the attention to detail for EVERY student irrespective of their ability or ambition. As an example, my DD and DS who both dance recreationally both attended a local dance school over the course of about 5 years. This school has a good reputation and 2 of its students got places at White Lodge in time period DD and DS were there. However in the school show I saw older dancers (16/17 ish) on pointe but looking shockingly bad (more 'off' their pointes than 'on' I would say)- I don't understand why they would be allowed to dance on pointe when they clearly weren't able to do so properly. We were continually messed around by changes of scheduling (literally every term the days and times changed). Finally DD asked to go to DS's vaganova teacher as she said she couldn't stand seeing students doing exercises completely wrong but not being corrected. Now I fully admit I know zip about ballet, but I can only assume that the teaching must have been more rigorous for those with talent and less so for those without; I can't explain the success of the small number of students alongside the poor teaching for others in any other way... With DSs old teacher I get no such complaints. She made DD immediately throw away her pointe shoes which she said were badly fitted and terrible for her feet (she had been on them a year and the other teacher had been fine with them), completely restarted her pointe training, and eventually (after a year) told her to give up pointe as she wasn't developing her leg muscles sufficiently to be safe. DD was slightly disappointed but completely in agreement and happy with the decision. She still loves the classes. The teacher has an adult class including women older than me (yes folks that's pretty aged), which still manages to stretch DS when he attends on his break from vocational school. Clearly none of this older women are aiming for a career but they get the same level of rigorous correction as vocational 16 year olds. To me that is the mark of an extraordinarily good teacher- teaching which aims to make everyone as good as they can be, not just developing the best students or those who are going to show the 'sparkliest' outcomes....