meadowblythe

Interesting article in The Stage, covering many of the issues raised here. https://www.thestage.co.uk/advice/2018/west-end-producer-drama-schools-abolish-audition-fees/?utm_source=newsletter1&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=newsletter1 It's obviously a live issue across many disciplines.

Just having a quick flick through the programme for this year. How do others start? By date? Looking for their favourite orchestra/conductor/soloist? By composer? I always look at the first day of the summer holidays, as it seems such a treat. Wedding anniversary, birthdays ... Then a couple of favourite conductors Then orchestra And irritatinginly there is a whole glorious week when I have already booked a family holiday !!!

Different - but related question. Seems to me a lot more people are getting through to the finals more than once than I remember. I liked the idea that it was a "one shot only" type competition. Of course it probably never was, I'm sure loads applied but didn't get to the televised stage before. Having said that, it was a masterful performance, what an inspirational teacher. Really knew how to present the piece and the performer. Interesting that Tom Hall was also obviously filmed at RNCM but they didn't identify him as a student .

I think you have answered your own question - and lucky you! However, I would just advise that regardless of what feedback you get here or elsewhere, you will never know if it is " it is an amazing scheme with exemplary teaching", and even if it is whether it is right for your son, without seeing for yourself. Is there some particular reason you are considering another scheme at this point?

I don't know about the set up at your DS school, but we always found one of the advantages of taking part in an associate type scheme is the chance to meet other boys. Also, as we lived some distance from anywhere (!) it was time efficient to do three classes at once. Although your son may be ballet focussed, he may have talents you didn't dream of in jazz or contemporary, I think he's quite young? Reality is he will have an awful lot more career opportunities later in life if he has a good all round skills base.

Ballet is cruel but some people make it crueller than it needs to be. I do hope they had the good grace to at least apologise.

Someone at Elmhurst once had this for their Sixth Form place !!!

Being further along the road, I think DS's experiences of living abroad continue very much in this vein. He knows he has a fabulous life style and brilliant opportunities, but sometimes he says all he wants is to be able to go to the supermarket without it being an academic exercise. He was incredibly homesick for the six months he didn't get home, but within a fortnight of being back was cheerfully chatting to friends about sorting flights to get back for the new season.

This is so true - and it doesn't stop. There was a time during his first year abroad when I used to dread my son phoning, and was actually really upset that I felt like that, because I could feel a physical weight pressing down on me as all his worries and unhappiness flowed down the phone line. I can't afford to pop out and see him every month, and just felt so helpless. I always remind myself that it's better than the time I didn't know he was so unhappy he was trying to run away on a weekly (possibly daily) basis. My musical D says her friends think it's hilarious that we are in contact most days, they try to get away with once a week. But a quick silly email (the otter fluffing kept us going for quite some time) just keeps the channels open. I think those who haven't found boarding difficult at some time are very blessed, but I suspect their reward comes as they move out into the world (or even to Uni) and have an arsenal of experience to draw upon. Also, as your son moves through the school they will get more freedom and space from each other, and it all becomes easier to deal with. If the school are aware and supportive you are half way there.

I know of people at one vocational school who have auditioned for another - and spoken with the target school to explain why no teacher's consent. All a bit cloak and dagger and all a long time ago.

Julie W's son gave my DS some excellent advice on this, albeit his wobbles started a week into vocational school. Write a list of the Pro's and Con's and then have a discussion from there. Does he have an older mentor he can speak to? The only thing I would add - and what I didn't do - is review this on a regular, maybe termly basis. And pick a neutral spot (again, JulieW's advice) for the discussion.

I guess what we have all proved is that reducing fees is not necessarily the answer - unless places will provide travel expenses too. However, this goes back to the age-old question - is it possible to get to a standard to succeed as a dancer (or musician), auditioning at 16, unless parents have invested a considerable sum in lessons/shoes/petrol/whatever? I guess those going to vocational school early will benefit the most, especially as raw talent will be the deciding factor at that stage, and vocational schools are more adept at finding the opportunities and funding. Music schools do offer feedback, sometimes written sometimes verbal, and it's seen as part of the audition process - particularly these days when postgraduate courses are considered in the same breath as undergraduate. Admittedly all auditionees will, at some point, be performing in a solo role. Musical D said that the written feedback was largely that she was given verbally during the day, when she had a chat with a head of department and covered group as well as solo tasks. If notes are taken, whilst I appreciate Nichola H's point about even a few minutes per auditionee adds up, if you are taking significant sums of money for an audition, and feedback is available, scanning a sheet into a copier and then emailing this seems a reasonable compromise.

Mrs Moo, curious what sort of things are recommended? Music school auditions were horrendous, over £100 a go, but students on full MDS got 3 paid for, including travel. Of course we all know that the actual fees are just the tip of the iceberg, I'm still trying not to think about how much I spent on travel costs.

Waiting to hear the brass with bated breath - my daughter is going to the same institution as one of the finalists on the same instrument. And auditioned at the same time as the other on the same instrument. Had to be talked into actually completing that audition (I wasn't allowed to go to any of the auditions, all I do is fret and make her nervous), she felt she was not in the same league as them and was all for leaving half way through(but yes, she was offered a place). She is really very nervous about actually playing with them every day, still feels she is not worthy. I felt going through that round of auditions I got a real insight into what it's like to have a DD rather than DS. So much competition (up to a week of auditions for approx 4 places), so many good people missing out.

Other considerations: Funding - RCS qualifies for student loans and grants ie no fees to pay, and also many get generous bursaries. General environment - you have the beauty and grandeur of Ballet West, RCS offers opportunity to live an work in a creative environment with actors, film makers, stage managers ... Check the destination of graduates and number gaining contracts, especially those doing all their post 16 training at either establishment and opportunities to dance as part of a company.

My son got multiple offers in ballet and neo-classical companies on graduation - he's a ballet dancer in the Czechia (he always wanted to go abroad), and is now picking up demi-solo and solo roles. He took class with Scottish Ballet but didn't go on tour. There is no correlation between those touring and those getting employment, it's simply what they need at the time. Pas de Deux - his year actually had a good balance, as does the new third year. I think in other years they use boys from the year above/below. I know there's at least one current student on this website, who can probably tell you a more up to date answer to that question - but they do seem to turn out employable dancers.

I am unashamedly biased, but very happy to answer any PMs as a parent if anyone has questions regarding RCS. My son graduated in 2016..

I think the problem is not the dance staff but the central admin - the results need to be put on CUKAS (or whatever it's called this year) and that's not done by the ballet staff but the central organisation. Also remember a lot of the students get *very* significant scholarships, which again are centrally administered, and certainly need to be organised as part of a larger scheme (I know these are offered across all disciplines). Please stick with them, it is a fantastic school.

Hi Lisa Sounds like you are having fun with your course - hope life is good for you. Meadowblythe

Having made some fairly significant "right" and "wrong" decisions over the years, my only not-very-helpful advice is: once the decision is made, don't look back. It took me a good 8 years to put a decision I made for my DS when he was 11 behind me. It nagged and nagged away ... and there really is no way of knowing "what if .." I thought the decision about conservatoire for my daughter would be easy but it was worse than the dance ones! As this is more recent I can say two factors that decided where she finally chose: a prestigious establishment was rejected because she had no connection with the head of department - she felt she couldn't got to him in a crisis. Additionally, the other students came predominantly from a music school she had rejected at a younger age as it had the wrong ehtos and "feel for her." She's going to a place which has a wider range of students - precisely the reason she chose her current school. Why did your daughter chose her current school? Are any of the factors that drew her to this place stronger at either Laines or Rambert. The other, less tangible, reason was a simple "feel." The buildings were incredibly ugly, financially she'd be far better off elsewhere, but the intangibles - the surroundings, accommodation and yes, feel, told her this was where she wanted to be The fact she was still drawn there made all the difference. Oh, and having said "I want to go to ...." she then got the first decent night's sleep for months.

Congratulations to your daughter ! Other questions - more boring and practical but worth considering . Environment - does she want to be near London> Buildings/Facilities - what is the campus like? Accommodation - what's on offer, how much does it cost, how close is it to site? Funding - obvs. I suspect Hairbelles has asked the most important question - what does she want to do when she graduates? No point spending umpteen thousand pounds to prepare yourself for a career, in your heart, you don't want to follow.

My point is that whether all children should, or should not be allowed to attend exams, this is a separate issue from whether the are "most able," which is based around the school curriculum. And taking exams does not mean you are by definition "more able," "gifted and talented," or whichever label you care to chose. Yes, it's great if our children have the opportunity to take music and dance exams but these in themselves do not produce rounded children,or those most likely to succeed in a career in this field. If exams were that essential, our ballet and vocational music schools would be putting their students through far more. Students at musical vocational schools seem to only take one or two exams, if any at all - they are no more necessary for conservatoire than ballet exams are for Upper School. Children miss school for a host of reasons, but I would assume they are more likely to be marked as "educated off site," if the school has been asked in advance, and is aware of the reason for the absence rather than "told" by a parent arriving unexpected at reception. As the original topic was whether time should be allowed off for exams, I would have thought a dialogue with the school is the key point.

Does taking a ballet or piano exam automatically make you gifted and talented? Probably not. Also I believe the current terminology is Academically More Able so not sure how ballet would fit the latest criteria.

I would have considered it rude not have asked permission for my child to be missing from school for any period of time - however short. And formally to the head, not a note in the planner. Most schools have a form for these occasions. Our chaotic dance school, back in the day, managed to schedule their exams in the middle of GCSEs, and was incensed when students wouldn't attend on the same day as a school exam, so I think courtesy and sense have to work both ways.

I think IF the ballet company had not provided suitable rehearsal spaces - no sprung floor, or equipment not properly maintained - then the case of a duty of care may come into play. A lot of civil law rests on the concept of a "duty of care." That is why the company you work for provides wrist supports - they need to take reasonable care. Most dancers will end up with a legacy - arthritis, broken joints .. in the same way many musicians end up with back problems through bad posture (although a good teacher will work on posture issues with their students) and impacted hearing. However, the key point is whether care has been taken to mitigate these as far as practical.