Mariinsky Ballet: Carmen, Infra, Paquita grand pas, London, August 2017

[Vukasin]

On 11/08/2017 at 11:49, fashionista said:

So what is the point of Infra?  Exactly!  Personally, and I fully appreciate that we all have different tastes (would be boring otherwise!!!), I don't think there is a point - gymnastic display of dancers' skills disturbed by the unnecessary addition of electronic moving figures.  Apart from Chroma, I am afraid to say that McGregor does not do it for me.  Chroma showed great potential, was "different" and had a creative pulse.  I think that subsequent McGregor works are variations on the Chroma theme and I am not a fan of using "effects" - the "effects" should be in innovative choreography and not electronic gimmicks. 

 

The point is supposed to be that the projected figures are ordinary people going about their supposedly banal and non-descript daily lives, drifting along, like commuters on a bridge, and the dancers represent the complex inner lives of these same people, as MAB said. "Actually, people are quite interesting" probably isn't the most profound idea McGregor has ever had, but the stick figures aren't there for no reason.

Edited August 12, 2017 by Vukasin

[Pas de Quatre]

San Fransisco ballet in Glass Pieces

 

Also, I do find Infra tends to remind me of Glass Pieces, the 1983 work choreographed by Jerome Robbins to Philip Glass music, which I much prefer as a ballet. 

[Coated]

I think the conceptual meaning of infra becomes obvious once someone reads the programme notes or similar, but it''s not necessarily clear by itself. I asked a very analytical friend what he thought it meant after the show, and said it seemed to be something about random people.

[nickwellings]

Slightly off topic, but above we mention there was an offer for this as sales were slow. Was it a Friends offer? I'm curious!

[fashionista]

On 8/12/2017 at 12:43, Vukasin said:

 

The point is supposed to be that the projected figures are ordinary people going about their supposedly banal and non-descript daily lives, drifting along, like commuters on a bridge, and the dancers represent the complex inner lives of these same people, as MAB said. "Actually, people are quite interesting" probably isn't the most profound idea McGregor has ever had, but the stick figures aren't there for no reason.

Not wishing to prolong this discourse for too long, but I still maintain that the choreography should be innovative enough to put across the message of our daily lives and the complexity thereto, without the need for electronic add-ons!!!

[John Mallinson]

On 12/08/2017 at 16:57, nickwellings said:

Slightly off topic, but above we mention there was an offer for this as sales were slow. Was it a Friends offer? I'm curious!

 

Special offers for Friends – I wish!

[capybara]

On 8/12/2017 at 16:57, nickwellings said:

Slightly off topic, but above we mention there was an offer for this as sales were slow. Was it a Friends offer? I'm curious!

 

I heard that there was a staff offer for ROH employees.

 

It would have been nice had there been an offer for people on the Hochhauser's mailing list, but I did not receive any such notification.

[Vukasin]

7 hours ago, fashionista said:

Not wishing to prolong this discourse for too long, but I still maintain that the choreography should be innovative enough to put across the message of our daily lives and the complexity thereto, without the need for electronic add-ons!!!

I wouldn't argue with that, but I'm sure McGregor would argue that's a question of artistic choice, not a failing.

[assoluta]

I am not sure how an (artistic) failing can be remedied by knowing that it was " a question of artistic choice". Mixing multimedia with live dancing is spreading like a disease these days, I have a feeling it is supposed to draw away attention from the failings of the choreography.

[fashionista]

17 minutes ago, assoluta said:

I am not sure how an (artistic) failing can be remedied by knowing that it was " a question of artistic choice". Mixing multimedia with live dancing is spreading like a disease these days, I have a feeling it is supposed to draw away attention from the failings of the choreography.

Assoluta - well said - couldn't agree more !

[MAB]

2 hours ago, assoluta said:

I am not sure how an (artistic) failing can be remedied by knowing that it was " a question of artistic choice". Mixing multimedia with live dancing is spreading like a disease these days, I have a feeling it is supposed to draw away attention from the failings of the choreography.

 

Infra is a brilliant piece of choreography, complex and inventive, if it had "failings" it wouldn't have been revived, let alone taken into the repertory of anther company.

Edited August 16, 2017 by MAB

[Lizbie1]

Personally speaking, while I'm not a huge fan of McGregor and, as I've mentioned above, I'm not happy with some of the more extreme extensions on display in Infra, I think that as a piece of choreography it would stand on its own merits.

 

In my view the projections enhance the piece; they are not necessary for it to succeed (indeed I believe they aren't even visible from a number of seats, though as with certain opera directors that might be down to an absence of consideration for those in the cheap seats).

[MAB]

8 minutes ago, Lizbie1 said:

Personally speaking, while I'm not a huge fan of McGregor and, as I've mentioned above, I'm not happy with some of the more extreme extensions on display in Infra, I think that as a piece of choreography it would stand on its own merits.

 

 

It's odd that there are a group of Russian dancers, I'm thinking Skorik, Somova, Zakharova for whom extreme extensions are their stock in trade but they don't get cast in McGregor or similar choreographers' works, instead they tend to cast pure classicists, e.g. Kondaurova.  Very strange. 

[annamk]

43 minutes ago, MAB said:

 

Infra ......... if it had "failings" it wouldn't have been revived, let alone taken into the repertory of anther company.

 

Really ? Plenty of new works with "failings" have been/are being revived  :, Untouchable, Raven Girl, Strapless ...... 

 

[MAB]

1 minute ago, annamk said:

 

Really ? Plenty of new works with "failings" have been/are being revived  :, Untouchable, Raven Girl, Strapless ...... 

 

 

One revival is to justify a productions expense, more than one indicates a degree of popularity/intrinsic merit.  In the case of Infra it's been taken into another company's rep.  Some duds  travel, they're co-productions.

 

Very surprised at the animosity towards this work bearing in mind how well the Mariinsky danced it.

[assoluta]

Skorik was cast in "Infra", Kondaurova is anything but a "pure classicist" (unless me, or the pedagogues of the Vaganova Academy, cannot see what is "pure" and "classicist"), while Zakharova certainly is one. As Anna said above, plenty of new works "with failings" are being "revived and taken into the repertory of another company". I was responding to a suggestion that something couldn't be "a failing" on account of being "an artistic choice"; personally, I consider "Infra" to be among McGregor's most successful pieces.

[MAB]

Pleased to hear Skorik has appeared in Infra, I imagine she is well suited to the role.

 

Kondaurova is a highly versatile dancer, looking good in everything she does but that doesn't mean she isn't a classicist too: she is.  Anyone who saw her in Paquita, one of the works under discussion, will attest to that.

[bridiem]

7 hours ago, MAB said:

 

Infra is a brilliant piece of choreography, complex and inventive, if it had "failings" it wouldn't have been revived, let alone taken into the repertory of anther company.

 

That presupposes that because something is in demand it is therefore good. I wouldn't agree with that.

[Vukasin]

On 16/08/2017 at 07:59, assoluta said:

I am not sure how an (artistic) failing can be remedied by knowing that it was " a question of artistic choice". Mixing multimedia with live dancing is spreading like a disease these days, I have a feeling it is supposed to draw away attention from the failings of the choreography.

 

I didn't say that it can be remedied. If it's a failing it's a failing, but saying that the piece itself would have been better realised if it had a different concept places the responsibility for the artistic vision with the critic, not the artist. Infra wouldn't be a better version of McGregor's idea if it didn't have the projected images, it would be a different idea, which may or may not be more artistically successful than the one he came up with.

[assoluta]

Actually, I think, "Infra" is better without those projected images. The best parts of it, at least.

[LinMM]

I must make a point of seeing Infra next time it's on!!

 

whenever I've seen videos of McGregor working with dancers I think if I was a dancer how good it must be to work with him...not sure why just something he gives off.

 

Just as a little aside....a couple of weeks ago when I went to the Gala for Grenfell I did something I never  usually do. In the interval I was standing around when suddenly realised I was standing right next to him. Normally I don't approach or talk to dancers/choreographers/directors or whatever unless I bump into them on their own somewhere ( as happened with Tamara Rojo back in March outside at the back of the Coli) but I couldn't resist it and told him just how much I had enjoyed Wolf Works ....one of my favourite things from the last season...and he was just so nice and seemed genuinely pleased that I had shared this.

 

He doesn't strike me as someone who would be messing around artistically and not that serious about what he is doing and of course although choreographers cannot produce a work of genius every time they create a work I'm sure he knew what he was doing with Infra ....which I emphasise I still haven't seen!!

My hunch is that if he put these cinematic figures in they were there for a purpose ....and not to hide "poor choreography" I think that is to put him down too much. People may not like his choreography or the concept of his ballet .....no artist can expect this as a right...but I'm sure he was being authentic when he created this ballet.

Now to see it!! I may not even like it or enjoy it or be able to connect with it but I wouldn't necessarily assume the choreographer was being fickle in some way because of that.

 

 

 

[Beryl H]

20 hours ago, LinMM said:

I must make a point of seeing Infra next time it's on!!

 

whenever I've seen videos of McGregor working with dancers I think if I was a dancer how good it must be to work with him...not sure why just something he gives off.

 

Just as a little aside....a couple of weeks ago when I went to the Gala for Grenfell I did something I never  usually do. In the interval I was standing around when suddenly realised I was standing right next to him. Normally I don't approach or talk to dancers/choreographers/directors or whatever unless I bump into them on their own somewhere ( as happened with Tamara Rojo back in March outside at the back of the Coli) but I couldn't resist it and told him just how much I had enjoyed Wolf Works ....one of my favourite things from the last season...and he was just so nice and seemed genuinely pleased that I had shared this.

 

He doesn't strike me as someone who would be messing around artistically and not that serious about what he is doing and of course although choreographers cannot produce a work of genius every time they create a work I'm sure he knew what he was doing with Infra ....which I emphasise I still haven't seen!!

My hunch is that if he put these cinematic figures in they were there for a purpose ....and not to hide "poor choreography" I think that is to put him down too much. People may not like his choreography or the concept of his ballet .....no artist can expect this as a right...but I'm sure he was being authentic when he created this ballet.

Now to see it!! I may not even like it or enjoy it or be able to connect with it but I wouldn't necessarily assume the choreographer was being fickle in some way because of that.

 

 

 

Lucky you, I have often seen him in the audience watching other people's ballets at the ROH, Linbury and SW, although I always try to avoid the LED figures and concentrate on the dancers in Infra, I did find that the Mariinsky ones seemed brighter and the glare hurt my eyes!

 

[bridiem]

On ‎20‎/‎08‎/‎2017 at 17:14, LinMM said:

He doesn't strike me as someone who would be messing around artistically and not that serious about what he is doing and of course although choreographers cannot produce a work of genius every time they create a work I'm sure he knew what he was doing with Infra ....which I emphasise I still haven't seen!!

My hunch is that if he put these cinematic figures in they were there for a purpose ....and not to hide "poor choreography" I think that is to put him down too much. People may not like his choreography or the concept of his ballet .....no artist can expect this as a right...but I'm sure he was being authentic when he created this ballet.

Now to see it!! I may not even like it or enjoy it or be able to connect with it but I wouldn't necessarily assume the choreographer was being fickle in some way because of that.

 

I'm sure that he knew what he was doing too, and I don't doubt his motivation or his intention. What I doubt, all too often, is the end product. BUT, if I happened to bump into him, I too would thank him for Woolf Works!