Advice for starting intermediate foundation

[annaliesey]

Hi

 

I'm wondering if anyone has advice on starting intermediate foundation?

 

My DD was told by teacher she could start when she was grade 3 (RAD) and just did grade 2 exam today

 

When she finished exam she wanted to wait about to ask if she could start inter foundation straight away (very keen). Her teacher advised to do a term of grade 3 on its own as otherwise it could be confusing starting two new things at the same time.

[Picturesinthefirelight]

How old is she?

[Moomin]

Sorry I know this isn't an answer to your question but I am genuinely interested in how you could start intermediate foundation after grade 2. I have experienced a few schools now rad and istd and they start vocationals after grade 5/6. Talented students looking for extra classes may be studying the class above. It was a long time ago that I took grade 2 but it was quite basic and I don't think we were even doing a complete turn in a pirouette, whereas IF you would be expected to do dehors/ dedans and doubles. Please don't take this as any criticism, as it is not meant to be, I am genuinely interested and not an expert by any standard!

[taxi4ballet]

You beat me to it, Pictures, it probably depends on her age.

 

I was wondering whether the other students currently in inter-foundation are older and have been doing that level for a while, or whether there will be other new people moving up and starting in the class next term.

 

If she picks things up quickly and there are other new starters it might be best for them all to start at the same time so they can be 'newbies' together.

 

My dd started doing the grade above "for fun" as well as her current grade, and she found it really helped her progress. Perhaps that could be an option for your dd - to join Grade 4 rather than I/F...

 

edited to make more sense!

Edited March 27, 2014 by taxi4ballet

[balletqs]

We frequently start Students in Inter foundation at Grade 3 so most are about 9yrs old when they start, they do one class then build to doing two a week. The RAD recommend a two year course of study and they can take the exam from 11 yrs of age so this works well. Some just do it for strength or as an additional class and if ready do not do the exam but just move up, normally during Yr 8 to Inter. They love the challenges and this allows more time to break things down. As they progress through the vocational grades they enjoy the 'less serious' side of the grade work when they are doing the hard grind in the vocational grades and it gives them more time to mature in the grade work for the character work in particular. So for example some of my Advanced foundation students are also studying grade 6. It also gives them an edge with they're grade results which boosts confidence. So I would say trust your teacher. The new RAD work if yr DD does RAD is far more challenging from earlier on and there is more scope for confusion doing the grade above,so we have always found this the better option.

[balletqs]

Incidentally we also find with the new work a wider range of students ARE able to do the inter found exam and of course they get to do pointe work !

[LinMM]

I'm definitely confused by this.....unless BBO is VERY different to RAD which I didn't think it was that much.....there is quite a bit of difference from Grade 3 to Inter foundation level. I wouldn't have thought it was appropriate to start the Inter foundation grade until at least grade 5. Why would you start doing a class that has jumped three grades .....or more or less.

 

I can see with a particularly talented child who a teacher was trying to move forward more quickly there might sometimes be a point in jumping a couple of grades but most children Ive seen at grade 3 level in BBO at any rate are nowhere near strong enough for Intermediate Foundation work though as said there's always the exceptional case that proves the rule!!

[balletqs]

Well it depends who is teaching them and how much the teacher breaks the work down it is what I did as a student in the 80s and we have been doing it for 30 yrs at the dance school and it has only had positive outcomes. The new syllabus is v much harder at grade 4 and 5 and all the students have remarked on how they find it more difficult and alien than the new Inter Found so it is continuing to work for us. We do not invite every student to do Inter Found that early but certainly it is an option for any who want an extra class who haven't been picked out already. And we ask all our grade 6 and above to do an Inter class as lots of them do GCSE dance and the difference in a term in even a v weak student has been phenomenol. They feel more confident as they have achieved higher level steps. We have v high standards and our exam results and awards reflect this. It won't work for everyone but we are lucky to have the time to start slowly and build gradually. Madam always said while I was training "you don't form a pebble by taking a hammer to a stone you drip water on it slowly."

[Aurora]

Some students at dd's school are invited to do IF after they've passed grade 3. They start as a group and some things are simplified for them by taking out the arms or alignment or doing something half speed for example. There are no double pirouettes in IF by the way Moomin. The average age of the children is about 10-11 but there are occasionally 9 year olds.

[2dancersmum]

DDs teacher would also advise taking a term of grade 3 on its own rather than starting two new grades at the same time as that is her policy also.  I think it can cause confusion - certainly there was one pushy parent at the school that insisted her DD should be allowed to do interfoundation straight away because my DD was already doing it and her DD found it more difficult than those that waited half a term or so.  My DD started in grade 3 but in the September before taking her exam the following month.  Usually at DDs school they start inter foundation the term following their grade 3 exam as the teacher has always said that the vocabulary for grades 4 & 5 overlaps with the vocabulary of interfoundation - but of course with the new syllabus for all those grades now I do not know if that still applies.

[Nancy19]

Hi, is this RAD inter foundation or ISTD?? Just wondered as at my daughters dance school they study RAD grades and if you show particular strength in ballet you get 'invited' to the IF classes, which are ISTD. this is usually around grade 4, age 10 ish. But the teacher always mentions that it's a trial at first, as some girls will never be in the position to take the exam, as they just aren't build right for the pointe work. My daughter has just been 12 and has just taken the exam, and is now in intermediate. I think they spend a while in these classes before moving up and obviously not good to start pointe to young x

[t_rose]

Not an RAD expert (dd did RAD grade 1 but has been doing IDTA grades but now doing RAD IF as well). I've noticed that diff dance schools introduce IF at different places in syllabus, not sure why but I'm sure each school /teacher have their own reasons. I would say trust the teacher to know the dancers capabilities.

[LinMM]

Perhaps I'm confusing the straightforward Intermediate level with intermediate foundation then. In intermediate BBO anyway you would be expected to be working with the leg well placed at 90 which requires a lot of strength and double pirouettes too!!

 

The grade 3 children seem to range from ages 8-10 and none of them look strong enough for pointe work!!!!

Although I realise this wouldn't be introduced immediately.

 

Perhaps I need to read up about exactly what the "inter foundation" levels are! Until now I thought you went into the inter foundation as an extra class from Grade 5 as it's probably more on a grade 6/7 level of ability but Ive definitely got this wrong from what ballet teachers are saying here!! So still confused( which doesn't seem to take much these days!!)

[Picturesinthefirelight]

At dds old dance school the grade 3s were aged 10-12

 

IF wasn't offered but pointe began after grade 4-5 was passed.

 

At vocational school (although I believe some such as RBS don't do it any more) IF is what the 11-12 year old Year 7s start on although there are sometimes a few who start having already passed it. There is a very small amount of pointe work at the barre in the exam apparently.

[Legseleven]

DD's RAD school would also expect intermediate students to be working with legs well placed at 90 degrees and RAD intermediate does include double pirouettes en dehors and en dedans (her teachers encourage attempts at triples and more from IF and above ;-)). She officially went into IF classes at just 10, having taken RAD grade 4 but was invited to start the IF classes a term before she took her grade 4, along with a couple of other students. Certainly I think a talented child could deal with IF (albeit simplified and, dependent on age and pointe readiness, without the pointe work at first) along with grade 3. As Balletqs said, it depends on the teacher and how the work is taught.

[youngatheart]

Hi Guys,

 

Just to clear up some of the confusion here:

 

Lin, BBO is very different to RAD in this respect. In BBO, Grade 6 is a "simplified" version of the Inter Foundation syllabus without pointe work. Everyone is expected to first take the Grade 5 exam and then be allocated to the Grade or Vocational pathway depending on how good the Grade 5 result is (to be put forward for Vocational it would need to be a high merit or a distinction) and how much commitment the student is willing to make. The IF syllabus is much much harder than certainly the old RAD one, (though the new one may be different). BBO also explicitly states that students are normally expected to follow their developmental pathway by studying each Grade in sequence (paraphrased), so no, you would probably not expect to see anyone below a Grade 5 in the Grade 6/IF class.

 

In RAD, Grade 6 is a totally different syllabus to Inter Foundation, and the RAD say that you can "transfer from the Grade to the Vocational pathway at an appropriate point, or continue to study both simultaneously". Personally I would concur with the view that starting on IF before taking the Grade 3 exam is too early, but I can see that for an older or especially talented student it may occasionally be appropriate. I would expect a student to be at least 10 before starting though, as otherwise they may be ready to do the main body of the exam before they are old enough to start pointe work and then get bored. IMO entering for IF at 11 is the minimum age, and most certainly should not be regarded as the “norm” – rather, I would expect to find a full range of ages in the class from 10-adult, with students able to remain in the class until they are ready to take the exam.

 

ISTD is closer to the BBO model than the RAD one, but Inter Foundation is the grade ABOVE Grade 6, not parallel with it.

[balletqs]

Oops edited to add reply. Yes it is the same with rad with a 90 degree leg height required and double pirouettes at Intermediate level but not at Inter foundation level. The earliest I would start a student if very strong with pointe work is twds tgd end of year 6 but more likely during year 7 and some not till year 9 if at all! The RADs 'new saying' is "the syllabus is not a training programme" so teachers are advised to spend time teaching each grade/voc grade broken down to its raw components. For example the Inter Found ports de bras involves ports de bras with classical walks, temps lie,transfer of weight,chasses passes,coupe chasses,chasses pas de bourre en avant and a travelling pas de bourre step (similar to a Hungarian reed movement) break these down and you can certainly drip this in to 9 yr olds and build up over two or 3 yrs. I agree it is confusing between diff syllabi.

 

Perhaps I'm confusing the straightforward http://instagram.com/p/l760qQQDEL/Intermediate level with intermediate foundation then. In intermediate BBO anyway you would be expected to be working with the leg well placed at 90 which requires a lot of strength and double pirouettes too!!

 

The grade 3 children seem to range from ages 8-10 and none of them look strong enough for pointe work!!!!

Although I realise this wouldn't be introduced immediately.

 

Perhaps I need to read up about exactly what the "inter foundation" levels are! Until now I thought you went into the inter foundation as an extra class from Grade 5 as it's probably more on a grade 6/7 level of ability but Ive definitely got this wrong from what ballet teachers are saying here!! So still confused( which doesn't seem to take much these days!!)

Edited March 27, 2014 by balletqs

[Loulabelle]

 

ISTD is closer to the BBO model than the RAD one, but Inter Foundation is the grade ABOVE Grade 6, not parallel with it.

Not being a teacher I don't wish to disagree with you youngatheart, but at my DD's school for a time, her teacher chose to teach ISTD Inter Foundation instead of Grades 5 and 6 as she said in was a combination of both grades. My DD took Grade 4, Inter Foundation and is now about to take Intemediate. She has never studied Grade 5 but has done some Grade 6 (after her teacher changed back to 5&6) just as an extra class really. Also at the ISTD Ballet awards Grade 6 and Inter Foundation are grouped together as being at the same level.

[youngatheart]

Hi,

 

Not disagreeing with you Loulabelle,

 

Unlike BBO, where it is the level between Grade 5 and Intermediate and an integral stage of the syllabus not expected to be skipped, the IF in the ISTD is very much an "optional" examination, and a segment of it's target market is people who have not taken the preceding grade exams, or who did them in another syllabus.

 

It would also be very common to skip it & go straight from Grade 6 to Intermediate.

 

As you say, the technique does not introduce much new vocabulary. However, it is a consolidation and pitched as an introduction to Vocational Level exams. In the ISTD the Vocational marking is much stricter - whereas RAD allows you to gain marks from any section, pass mark 40%, the ISTD requires a minimum mark for each section and has a 50% pass mark.

 

However the pointe work in particular is a progression from Grade 6, and the refinement of technique and much greater requirement for stamina is why the level is "higher" than Grade 6.

 

It is also very common for more than one grade to compete in the same class at competitions.

Edited March 27, 2014 by youngatheart

[taxi4ballet]

Hi

 

I'm wondering if anyone has advice on starting intermediate foundation?

 

My DD was told by teacher she could start when she was grade 3 (RAD) and just did grade 2 exam today

 

When she finished exam she wanted to wait about to ask if she could start inter foundation straight away (very keen). Her teacher advised to do a term of grade 3 on its own as otherwise it could be confusing starting two new things at the same time.

 

It is the RAD syllabus that is being followed here. 

 

As far as I know (and please correct me if I'm wrong) you can start RAD vocational grades at whatever time the teacher chooses, and it is not dependent on completing a particular grade first. From comments on previous threads here and elsewhere, it seems that individual teachers have their own ideas on the age group for particular grades (with a very wide range), and also whether or not they need to have reached a certain level or age before starting IF.

[Loulabelle]

Thank you for the clarification youngatheart, could never really understand why DD's teacher switched to IF rather than grades 5&6 guess I'll never know as she's switched back now????

[ParentTaxi]

DD (ISTD school) started IF, as well as starting pointe work, after doing Grade 4, partly as an 'additional ballet lesson' each week in preparation for the ISTD awards.

 

In her school, it is normal from Grade 3 to do 2 classes a week - the grade they are working on, and the grade above: so Grades 3+4, then take Grade 3 and do grade 4+5 classes, then take Grade 5 and do 5+6 classes, then 6 and IF classes after Grade 5.

 

IF is treated as the exam after Grade 6, but all those doing Grade 6 will already have done IF since they passed grade 5 if you see what I mean.

 

DD is in a slightly odd position, as she is being somewhat accelerated to 'catch up in ballet grade work' with a group of very able dancers who are all a year older and just under a grade ahead, though in practice in all 'non graded work' such as groups, duets, trios etc she is treated as their peer. So she does Grade 5, 6, IF and pointe classes. She was 11 just before Christmas.

[annaliesey]

Thanks so much for replies everyone, it's been really useful. My daughter is 9.

 

Her teacher mentioned her being invited to join IF about 2 months ago and she explained at the time the minimum age for exam was 11 and how she agreed this was for a good reason and really to treat it as an extra class and not to rush but she felt she was ready for it and she would benefit from starting it soon. She explained a lot about muscles and development and treating each student individually. She doesn't have any reputation for rushing students either or allowing anyone to skip grades inappropriately or anything like that

 

I wouldn't say my daughter picks up particularly fast but she does like to work hard, and would attend every dance class she was allowed to go to (and that I can afford in my budget). She has done two classes a week RAD g2 and I think it worked out about 80 hours or even slightly more so it was a fair bit over the recommended teaching hours of 60 for this grade. She also has started a junior free work class this last term and has also been invited to a class that does stuff similar to pillates with a gym ball (bit difficult to describe) and also does 2 stretch and conditioning per week along with other classes in lyrical, contemporary, modern, tap and jazz (it's quite a lot and this might change)

 

I think her teacher possibly feels she is physically pretty strong but would get confused if she started g3 and IF at the same time.

 

I've tried to read the document on RAD website but it didn't really sink in

[annaliesey]

Oh and balletqs her teacher has said the same as you said .. That the new syllabus is much more challenging and she doesn't allow anyone to overlap grades.

[LinMM]

Thanks Youngatheart for your post 16 that has clarified something for me. Although I was brought up on RAD so to speak these days I know more about BBO and it is obviously different. I will try as annaliesey to understand how the RAD operates now and about this IF exam. I think it's rather a good idea for children who need extra classes for there to be a free class available that is into connected to exams particularly but which can give those who need it extra experience of steps etc.