Anyone changed dance schools? Why?

[Anna C]

6 hours ago, Anniedancemum said:

I don’t think I could approach other dance schools in secret (and probably shouldn’t), and I think our current school would be really annoyed if I told them I was thinking of leaving. It would cause a big fall out.

Again, this is where we need to remind ourselves that we’re paying customers.  I had to change swimming lesson providers when dd was little; we just applied to the better classes at a different pool and gave notice to the first one.  Just like when you change Vets or whatever.

 

Yet when we want to change dance schools, there’s this fear of being disloyal/fallout/making the teacher angry.  It shouldn’t be like that!  I changed from an ISTD dance school to an RAD one when dd was about 6 or 7, for some of the reasons you mention in your posts (too much focus on shows/comps, ridiculously late show rehearsals (10pm finish for 5 year olds), compulsory extra evening classes/rehearsals that clashed with other commitments, constant demands for money) but also because they didn’t teach Character dance which dd had enjoyed at a Tring Park Dance Day and wanted to learn.
 

I booked her in for a trial class at our nearest RAD school before I’d even mentioned to her previous teacher that I was thinking of moving her.  All the new teacher asked was that I gave the appropriate notice to the ISTD school, which of course I did, in writing.  Not only did dd make friends at the new classes, but also one friend from the old school moved to the new one shortly afterwards, for much the same reasons.  
 

With regards to your daughter not wanting to move, that’s slightly trickier.  Sometimes we, as the adult, know what’s best for them.  We can see red flags that they can’t, and quite rightly, issues that don’t bother them do bother us, because we’re the ones paying/changing work commitments/drying the tears.  Your gut feeling and the advice you’re getting here might have to override your daughter’s view, if the bottom line is that you know she would get better/kinder teaching elsewhere.  Plus until she does a trial class elsewhere, she’s not going to know any different.

 

Your daughter’s current school reminds me of my daughter’s uni competition team, to be honest!  The girls taught & choreographed themselves and each other, and the goal was to perform their best routines at comps.

 

The major difference?  The girls were aged 18-24.  Their years of solid technique and proper teaching by qualified teachers, as well as their self-discipline and years of exams, Associates, CAT schemes, and even some full-time training, let them concentrate on performance/costumes/routines and competitions.  And they had such fun doing it!
 

I always remember two things that extremely wise and experienced women taught my daughter:  

 

1. Practice doesn’t make perfect, practice makes permanent - ie you could be committing wrong technique to muscle memory just by repeating it enough times.  

 

2.  When the correct technique is ingrained into the body, only then can you free your mind to work on performing/acting/smiling.  The technique must ALWAYS come first.

[DVDfan]

 I'm puzzled by the continuous last minute changes of schedule. I can see that whilst stuff happens now and then and occasional changes are inevitable, I can't see how any kind of youth group can run without a fixed timetable and one of the reasons why this is necessary is that most kids are dependent on their parents for transport, and parents have jobs, siblings and indeed their own lives to organise.  

You say these changes of schedule are causing you serious problems: I'm not surprised, it's something I couldn't live with at all (maybe I'm a bit inflexible). Expecting parents - the paying customers after all - to put up with this doesn't sound reasonable to me. 

It also strikes me that the difficulties and stress this causes you could be a reason your DD would understand for starting to think about another school. 

[taxi4ballet]

OP - you clearly have misgivings about the current school, otherwise you wouldn't have started the thread. Practically speaking, one of the best times to think about changing dance schools is at this time of year. Between now and the end of term there is the opportunity for your dd to have a trial lesson or two at other dance schools locally, to see how she gets on, and so that you (the paying customer) can see what else is available.

 

I know a lot of dance styles revolve around the competition circuit - ballroom & latin springs readily to mind - but for the most part, dance (ballet in particular) is a performing art and not a competitive one. 

[Anniedancemum]

The last minute changes are down to the teacher’s personal circumstances most of the time. Or it’s because she wants the kids in extra because of an upcoming comp. Other times, classes aren’t moved, they’re taken by seniors instead. Again, lots of good comments made and things to think about. @taxi4ballet you’re absolutely right about the misgivings. I’ve been having a look at another nearby school, but it says they’ll only accept pupils for a trial if it is agreed by their existing school. I’m not sure I want to open this can of worms. If dd doesn’t get on well at the trial it’ll make it hard to stay. I don’t want to go from the frying pan into the fire. 

Edited July 4, 2023 by Anniedancemum

[taxi4ballet]

1 hour ago, Anniedancemum said:

I’ve been having a look at another nearby school, but it says they’ll only accept pupils for a trial if it is agreed by their existing school. 

How odd. Does it actually say that on their website?

 

 

[Betty]

I’m just wondering what your child wants to do with dance - if it is improve in ballet then it might be worth adding in a class from another school eg associates or have some private ballet lessons and see what the feedback is? If you want to say where you are in the country people could suggest good schools/teachers. Your set up seems v focused on performance over everything for competitions and I’m sure that type of school is hard to leave, you get caught up in the adrenaline rush and social media announcements. 

If it helps to hear, my dc has had the opposite experience, is at a v small local church hall type school, doing solid basic technique working through RAD exams, no shows or comps at all but from this solid base we have added in performances and associates (with the encouragement of the teacher). There is no shouting, bullying or favouritism and the teachers qualifications are on the website. 

 

From the music world, I’ve found my kids to be very poor judges when it comes to making changes - they feel loyal to their teachers and want things to stay the same. We’ve changed music schools and teachers listening to our gut feelings as adults and looking back the kids now say these were the right decisions although they resisted at the time and had to trust our judgement. I also think it is healthy to have more than one teacher for something.

 

Good luck - its tough managing these niggling doubts.

[Anniedancemum]

6 hours ago, taxi4ballet said:

How odd. Does it actually say that on their website?

 

 

Yes it does. It specifically says you must get permission from your existing school to attend a trial with them. 

[DVDfan]

Permission to attend from your existing school? The way these dance schools treat their paying customers is very odd! Is there a justification for this? 

[Anniedancemum]

Yes, permission from their existing school. It’ll be obvious dd has danced before so I can’t lie (and wouldn’t anyway). But it’ll open a whole can of worms if I mention a trial somewhere else to my existing school. The teacher is fine with associate classes, but this would cause problems, especially if we chose to stay. Not really sure why they say this. The other school that I could look at is further away. At least 20 minutes with no traffic, but it’ll likely be more because there’s a very busy junction and traffic builds up busy times. 

[Neverdancedjustamum]

3 hours ago, Betty said:

 

 

From the music world, I’ve found my kids to be very poor judges when it comes to making changes - they feel loyal to their teachers and want things to stay the same. We’ve changed music schools and teachers listening to our gut feelings as adults and looking back the kids now say these were the right decisions although they resisted at the time and had to trust our judgement. I also think it is healthy to have more than one teacher for something.

 

This is so sad but so true. Children can be very loyal to a fault and often they won’t tell you the whole picture because they don’t like change and would rather stay where they’re familiar with. Sometimes it’s only when you hear from others about how things are that confirms your gut instinct as a parent. Often I hear parents say, oh, I 100% will support what my kid wants but I always say at ages 9-14 (or even further along both ends), do they actually? They claim they do but precedent and a history of personal experiences and those of others we have seen prove otherwise. The number of times I’ve placed my DC in a new class when they’ve been hesitant to do so (I won’t know anyone there! What if they judge me?), and then end up loving it and being more settled and happy than they ever would have been in their previous situation/school. There is still a reason why we are the parents and they are the kids. 
 

I also totally agree with you on what you said about having more than one teacher, and I think this is so crucial especially as they get older. Don’t be stuck in a situation where a teacher or school is extremely possessive. That in itself is a massive red flag for me, a proper warning signal. Transparency and good communications is key but I know some teachers and schools will make this extremely difficult even if you wanted to be up front with them about your DCs pursuing activities with other teachers and schools (even when it’s not even related to ballet!). Sadly this happens so much, parents get stuck too and feel like they can’t go anywhere because of location or loyalty etc. I know of parents who know situations well and yet stay with the same schools, it’s a very tricky and difficult situation and I can understand your dilemma.

[Anniedancemum]

I’ve just checked again. The website doesn’t actually use the word ‘permission’, so that’s my mistake. But it does say the existing school must be told that the child is coming for trail classes. So it still leave me in the same situation. They do have some other teachers e.g ballet, contemporary and Acro, but the seniors take whole classes too. As I’ve said, there are good things, but some issues too. Thanks so much for your advice and thoughts everyone. 

[alison]

Maybe it's just a professional courtesy thing - they don't want to seem to be poaching?  In professions which are very close-knit, you don't want to be upsetting your colleagues/competitors unnecessarily, as it may come back to bite you later.

[Birdy]

When my DD was 9 I knew that it was time for her to change schools. At her school classes were only 45 minutes long, after the December holiday break most class time was dedicated to working on year-end recitals with not much time spent on basic technique, more attention was given to students whose parents spent a lot of time at the studio, kids kind of goofed off in classes or regularly skipped class, etc. Though she was only 9, my DD was more focused and dedicated and it seemed likely that she would want to pursue ballet seriously for the near future at least. She was reluctant to make a switch, and hated change in general, but once she tried a class at a more professional school, she leapt at the chance to make the change. Kids can’t really know how they’ll feel about a new situation until they try it. And honestly you shouldn’t be made to feel like you are being disloyal or doing something wrong by looking at other options. You are trying to find the best fit for your child. At 17 my DD left her lovely, very professional school, to train in Europe (we are from the US), and they were very understanding about why she felt it was time to make that move.

[Pas de Quatre]

Alison, you are right  it is a matter of professional courtesy.  Many schools continue for decades and the relationship between them is important and can last a very long time. Word soon gets round if a teacher behaves unprofessionally, and it seems "poaching" is more common these days.  On the other hand, teachers all suffer from time-wasters too. People who want to come for a trial class but don't turn up, or take the class with little intention of continuing. So do not be surprised if teachers want some sign of commitment before offering a trial.

Edited July 5, 2023 by Pas de Quatre
Sp

[balletfanatic]

My sons are very sporty - we have encouraged them to move clubs/teams several times when they weren't sure they wanted to. Sometimes it's good to have a change - it helps their confidence knowing they can make new friends, adapt to new training methods etc and they learn something new from new coaches/teachers.  After a while they can get stuck in a rut at one club and I'm sure from my experience as a child it's the same in the dance world. So from what you're saying I would take the plunge and explore other options.  ps we were made to feel bad for moving clubs by certain other parents - not by the coaches who were very understanding. At the end of the day you have to put your child first - you haven't signed up to one dance school for life!

[Neverdancedjustamum]

17 minutes ago, Pas de Quatre said:

Alison, you are right  it is a matter of professional courtesy.  Many schools continue for decades and the relationship between them is important and can last a very long time. Word soon gets round if a teacher behaves unprofessionally, and it seems "poaching" is more common these days.  On the other hand, teachers all suffer from time-wasters too. People who want to come for a trial class but don't turn up, or take the class with little intention of continuing. So do not be surprised if teachers want some sign of commitment before offering a trial.

I can understand the point about time wasters but what kind of sign of commitment would these teachers require? This seems to be against the idea of a trial which I take to mean as both the potential student and the teacher trying to see if the school and/or class is the right ‘fit’ for the student and what the student is looking for. The best schools we have trialled are those whose teachers reply to my initial contact to enquire what my child and I are looking for and, where relevant and appropriate, asks for a brief background on the child’s dancing experience to date. This often gives them a good idea right away if their school is a good fit for the child without wasting both parties’ time. Some schools charge a minimal fee for class trials. And some schools would actually tell the parent not to commit or get uniform yet until they are sure their child would be settled and happy there and then invoice retrospectively. 

[Pas de Quatre]

How many schools have you trialled? The sort of commitment is giving notice at the current school. Many schools used to give free trials, but don't anymore and some even charge a higher rate than a single class which will be set against the fees if the pupil enrols. If it is just a case of seeing if the grass is greener then it can be annoying.  I have now retired from full time teaching, but I could usually tell within a minute or two on the initial telephone enquiry whether it was likely to work!

[Colman]

If "professional courtesy" means that students are intimidated from exploring their options then it says something about which relationships the teachers are prioritising and how they view students, doesn't it? I think I'd avoid a school that required you to tell a borderline(?) abusive teacher that you were thinking of going elsewhere. 

 

3 hours ago, Neverdancedjustamum said:

Don’t be stuck in a situation where a teacher or school is extremely possessive. That in itself is a massive red flag for me, a proper warning signal

Very much so, in any teaching situation. 

[Pas de Quatre]

Surely if you have a borderline abusive teacher you would be handing in your notice anyway!  It is not possessive just professional, to expect parents to respect notice periods. Dance teachers are usually planning months ahead, for associate auditions, exam sessions, for shows, masterclasses etc, and they really don't want to be mucked around.

Edited July 5, 2023 by Pas de Quatre

[LinMM]

Of course if thinking of definitely changing schools it is courteous to give appropriate notice of leaving etc but if attending a “trial” class with another Dance school you may decide to stay where you are anyway! 
Surely just going for a trial doesn’t mean you definitely intend to leave a current school. 
Ideally you should feel free to discuss concerns with the teacher ( though it seems as if some Dance School owners are just too intimidating!) of the current school to see if any issues can be resolved but it could be that a school is no longer a fit as childrens priorities change for what they want to focus on so for example if your child attends a theatre school but suddenly they become really keen on ballet which is not the main focus of a particular school then it shouldn’t be practically seen as a “sin” to try out another school where say ballet is the main focus. I don’t think it should necessarily be seen as “poaching”. 

 

[Pas de Quatre]

No LinMM, poaching is when teachers actively encourage pupils from other schools to switch, by starting Associate schemes, performance clubs, and even contacting direct on social media. What doesn't seem to be understood is how disruptive trial classes can be for existing pupils.

[Anna C]

13 minutes ago, Pas de Quatre said:

No LinMM, poaching is when teachers actively encourage pupils from other schools to switch, by starting Associate schemes, performance clubs, and even contacting direct on social media. What doesn't seem to be understood is how disruptive trial classes can be for existing pupils.

How so, PdQ?  When dd did a trial class, she literally just joined in the appropriate level class.  She didn’t cause any disruption, because the Teacher had suggested that class based on dd’s experience.  The only difference between her and the existing pupils was that she had a different leotard.

[Neverdancedjustamum]

I think by the time a DC is into their teens means they’ve most likely attended quite a few trials for classes whether it be for other dance genres and not just ballet but also it could even be within the same school. 

For most parents of dancing DCs, class and other associated dancing fees constitute a significant percentage of the family’s income. Which is why I think professional courtesy should work both ways. While recognising the challenges teachers and schools face especially after the pandemic and the current economic climate, most parents experience and feel face these too. And whilst the term ‘grass is greener’ often has a negative connotation, as a parent, I would admit to being willing to do this not for the fun or just for the sake of it but if I felt my child has stagnated somewhere or is not being nurtured or isn’t happy anymore. As long as there is open communication and the right notice is given, no child (or their parent) should feel trapped somewhere.  I have known parents who have spent hundreds of pounds as payment in lieu to honour school T&Cs even if they won’t even think twice about sending their DCs back to classes. I understand that there are always those who move around schools for minor reasons but I’d like to believe that a majority of parents would only do so for valid reasons related to their child’s progress and wellbeing.  I would not want to continue to pay hard earned money somewhere I feel my child isn’t thriving. What might have been a good fit a few years ago might not be now and we’ve had the pleasure of engaging with teachers who are willing to collaborate or even refer DCS to other schools and teachers (ie ‘’my school cannot offer that level of [dance] but I can ask around other local schools if any of them do” or “My school doesn’t offer contemporary but I have invited so and so to offer a masterclass during the school holidays”). I would be wary of teachers who are not willing to work with other teachers and schools or ones who discourage students from attending masterclasses or intensives. 

[Pas de Quatre]

One pupil attending one class is OK, it is when there are too many, lots of whom aren't serious.  With regard to Associates and Intensives, a good rule of thumb is whether they are a well known and/or only take pupils after a rigorous audition process. Not those spurious ones that are just trawling in their local area.

[taxi4ballet]

6 hours ago, Anniedancemum said:

I’ve just checked again. The website doesn’t actually use the word ‘permission’, so that’s my mistake. But it does say the existing school must be told that the child is coming for trail classes. So it still leave me in the same situation. They do have some other teachers e.g ballet, contemporary and Acro, but the seniors take whole classes too. As I’ve said, there are good things, but some issues too. Thanks so much for your advice and thoughts everyone. 

I have two questions, firstly is this other school also competition-focused and secondly, how old is your dd?

[Anniedancemum]

The other school does have a comp team and does solos too. But it’s by invitation from age 10. They also do exam work though and I think this is more their main focus. They also do Janet Cram awards. They teach in age groups as far as I can see. Some pupils attend other associate schemes too. As I said before, my dd is very young still. She’s 7, just going into year 3 in September. She’s old in the year group so will be 8 soon. 

Edited July 5, 2023 by Anniedancemum

[taxi4ballet]

Okay, her age changes things slightly. Might I suggest that you try to find a dance school which teaches syllabus classes in ballet, tap and modern, does graded exams and has a show every year or two. You will know where you are with the timetable every week, it will cost far less and she won't have the stress of learning routines at the expense of class instruction. She is young enough to go right back to basics, and if she doesn't, she could well end up with ingrained faulty technique that could take years to unlearn.  There will be plenty of time for her to do contemporary and other dance styles (and musical theatre) in years to come, once she has a solid foundation.

 

When she's 8 she can audition for English Youth Ballet if it comes round near your way, and it would also be worth keeping an eye on Tring Park School, which does workshops and dance days. Their residential Easter school is particularly good.

 

In one of your posts you mention that she's sometimes asked to do double pirouettes - that is not something that would normally be expected of students her age, and you say yourself she can't do them reliably with any level of technique. They seem to have missed out great chunks of preparatory training.

[LinMM]

Good advice above! I hadn’t realised just how young your daughter was!! 
I started off in a more general school and certainly loved my first teacher a lot but when I got to about 10 I suddenly started getting really serious about ballet so my mum ( who was never a “ballet mum” and kept herself away except at end of terms or summer performances etc then did take some advice and I changed schools. 
It did help that there was a girl in my primary school at the “new” school so knew at least one person when I changed but I soon loved the new school too and the standard was definitely better!! 
With your daughter being so young it’s difficult to know what to advise currently but my desire to do more ballet definitely came from myself and my mum picked this up ( Thankyou mum!) 

[Anna C]

1 hour ago, taxi4ballet said:

Okay, her age changes things slightly. Might I suggest that you try to find a dance school which teaches syllabus classes in ballet, tap and modern, does graded exams and has a show every year or two. You will know where you are with the timetable every week, it will cost far less and she won't have the stress of learning routines at the expense of class instruction. She is young enough to go right back to basics, and if she doesn't, she could well end up with ingrained faulty technique that could take years to unlearn.  There will be plenty of time for her to do contemporary and other dance styles (and musical theatre) in years to come, once she has a solid foundation.

 

When she's 8 she can audition for English Youth Ballet if it comes round near your way, and it would also be worth keeping an eye on Tring Park School, which does workshops and dance days. Their residential Easter school is particularly good.

 

In one of your posts you mention that she's sometimes asked to do double pirouettes - that is not something that would normally be expected of students her age, and you say yourself she can't do them reliably with any level of technique. They seem to have missed out great chunks of preparatory training.

Couldn’t have put it better myself.  Even if @Anniedancemum meant jazz pirouettes, these don’t form part of the Janet Cram routines until Premier Class (so Grade 6/Inter Foundation/Intermediate level Modern).  No pirouettes are done by Juniors (Grade 4) and only a single for Seniors (Grade 5).

 

Ballet pirouettes are even harder.  I would not expect any reputable school to be teaching doubles to 7 or 8 year olds!  As Taxi says, there are huge chunks of technique being missed.  That alone would be enough for me to change schools, let alone all the faffing around with the timetable.

 

My husband was still working shifts with a lot of unplanned for overtime while dd still needed driving to and from her local dance school.  The constant changes in timetable alone would have made life incredibly difficult for us - and you would be perfectly within your rights to blame that for your wanting to change schools.  

[Anniedancemum]

Sorry, yes. Jazz pirouettes. Not ballet. As I said she’s not good at them. She can do quite a nice single though. 

[Anna C]

55 minutes ago, Anniedancemum said:

Sorry, yes. Jazz pirouettes. Not ballet. As I said she’s not good at them. She can do quite a nice single though. 

Even a single is not done in ISTD syllabus until Grade 5/Seniors at Janet Cram.  I just worry that these little girls are being taught moves that look flashy, but without any of the technical basics.

 

I may be way off base here, but I’m getting Dance Moms/Dance Mums vibes from your dd’s current school. 😕

[Anniedancemum]

I can see how it comes across like that, but it isn’t anywhere near as brutal. There are plenty of kids who just come for classes and don’t do comp/solos. They’re never shouted at. The school instills a good work ethic, and everyone is expected to try - they can’t stand about chatting for example, but these kids aren’t shouted at. It’s only comp kids. And my dd hasn’t been shouted at particularly, but others have. It’s a lot of the older ones. My dd just doesn’t like the shouting. They do take comps seriously and go to win though. The teacher doesn’t see the point if you’re not properly competing. And she loves to beat other schools and get good feedback from the adjudicators. They usually do win. 

[DVDfan]

I'm getting a vibe now that the students are being used to win competitions for the school, that this is what matters to the teacher, not their welfare or their education.  IMO, your DD is quite right not to like it, whoever it is directed at - she is sensing the underlying, undesirable motive.

It does seem to me that if you can, it would be best to move her to a school that teaches dance, not competition routines. If she likes to compete, I get the impression from this forum that there are a lot of ways to do that - festivals etc.