Royal Ballet School / RBS

[DanceDaddy]

Good morning all,

 

Our child has recently been offered a place at WL in year 7. They want to go, but rather than go into this with eyes wide shut, we wanted to do some research and learn from the past experiences of others. Looks like we just missed the boat and a recent thread has been removed by the moderators for one reason or another. I am a member of many forums and have never in my life known for a thread to be deleted. Locked yes, but deleted? All the forum needs to do is state that any opinions shared on the forum are not of their own and are of the members. Forums are very useful source of impartial information and was hoping to learn here. 

 

Can someone give us a little flavour as to what to expect please? How did they child cope with boarding? Was the school helpful in settling them in etc?

 

For £34k a year, the dorms are basic to say the least. The toilet in the dorms was covered in #%^* when we did a tour a few weeks and that’s when the school knew that  prospective parents were coming in. Any cleaners? 
 

If the forum doesn’t allow discussion on RBS, which is shocking I’d this is the case, can someone just DM me please?

 

Many thanks I’m advance.

 

DD

[Kate_N]

1 hour ago, DanceDaddy said:

The toilet in the dorms was covered in #%^* when we did a tour a few weeks and that’s when the school knew that  prospective parents were coming in.

 

There is information on this site about the RBS. However, a recent discussion started to get personal. Moderators are volunteers and have to be aware of legalities around public discussions of individuals.

 

And perhaps, preparation for boarding is teaching your children basic hygiene, and care for their environment, and respect for others around them, so children don't leave lavatories messy ... 

Edited March 21, 2023 by Kate_N

[Guest oncnp]

If you are looking for a balanced opinion, look elsewhere. Every discussion seems to end up as a feeding frenzy of negativity, with people hiding behind their screen names and "I didn't name the school" when it is perfectly clear which school is being discussed.  And God help you if you dare to disagree with the mob. Not unlike the real world where the ability to have a civilized disagreement has been lost. 

 

Have you ever actually run a forum?  Do you know whether the phrase you suggest offers any legal protection whatsoever? 

 

As for the state of the toilets, definitely a turn off. But, in addition to @Kate_N above, the more pertinent question for me would be how often are they cleaned ?  Did someone just have GI/GU distress (perhaps even another parent) and the cleaner just not gotten to it yet?  And what did they say when you pointed this out to them? 

 

 

Edited March 21, 2023 by oncnp

[Prancer]

As far as I read there were no comments directed at individuals but rather the school ethos as a whole. It is difficult for parents to make important decisions without being able to ask questions of how children are treated in general and the "assessing out" process. Being able to get firsthand opinions from parents whose children have gone to these schools is essential and very hard to get in real life.

 

That said, I'm not sure how clean the toilets are is very relevant unless there is other evidence of general poor cleaning. It may well have been an unlucky one-off and not something on which to base a decision as to where to send your child to school.

 

I hope that parents with children at the school will be able to give you more of a feel for their daily life and how they manage things like homesickness. These are important questions and I value this forum for being a place where other people's experiences, good and bad, can be shared. 

 

 

[AllAboutTheJourney]

Current parents aren’t likely to post much on here as every discussion goes the same way. Hopefully you will get some good balanced advice and up to date information about day to day school life (in 2023) in DMs. 
 

The current system of guaranteeing 3 years training is obviously something to factor into your decision and there are various different ways of looking at it. There are several threads discussing it on here which are now locked but still available to be read (I think) if you scroll back a few pages. 

[Sim]

24 minutes ago, RubyM said:

I hope that parents with children at the school will be able to give you more of a feel for their daily life and how they manage things like homesickness. These are important questions and I value this forum for being a place where other people's experiences, good and bad, can be shared. 

 

 

There is another thread in the Doing Dance area that is about the daily life of a WL student.  

[BalletcoForum Moderators]

2 hours ago, DanceDaddy said:

Good morning all,

 

Our child has recently been offered a place at WL in year 7. They want to go, but rather than go into this with eyes wide shut, we wanted to do some research and learn from the past experiences of others. Looks like we just missed the boat and a recent thread has been removed by the moderators for one reason or another. I am a member of many forums and have never in my life known for a thread to be deleted. Locked yes, but deleted? All the forum needs to do is state that any opinions shared on the forum are not of their own and are of the members. Forums are very useful source of impartial information and was hoping to learn here. 

 

Can someone give us a little flavour as to what to expect please? How did they child cope with boarding? Was the school helpful in settling them in etc?

 

For £34k a year, the dorms are basic to say the least. The toilet in the dorms was covered in #%^* when we did a tour a few weeks and that’s when the school knew that  prospective parents were coming in. Any cleaners? 
 

If the forum doesn’t allow discussion on RBS, which is shocking I’d this is the case, can someone just DM me please?

 

Many thanks I’m advance.

 

DD

Perhaps never in your life has one of your forums had the same issues as we have to deal with.  We are not going to go over it yet again; we have repeated time and again why we hide or lock posts.  If people don't understand, there's not much more we can do.  

 

You state that all we have to say is 'the opinions aren't our own.'   The moderators have access to professional advice and we do know what can be said freely and what cannot.  An opinion is very different from speculation, or from making remarks about people or institutions that are potentially libellous, critical, or outing individuals, etc.  Of course people can put their opinions up.  We also stipulate that highly critical postings should be made under the poster's full name, and this is almost never the case.

 

Should you want to glean opinions, it might be an idea to start your own discussion group away from this forum.  We have already suggested that to others.  In a closed, private group people can say whatever they like without sanction.  We would yet again remind everyone that this is a public forum and can be read by anybody, even if they don't sign up as members.  As we always say, we welcome positive and negative comments about performances, music, whatever is under discussion.  But when it moves on from constructive criticism or opinion we have to take action.  That is about all we can say, and hope that people understand.  

[Pups_mum]

No personal experience of RBS but regarding vocational training in general, I would say the most important thing is to understand how few children "succeed" - at least if you measure success in terms of paid contracts in classical companies anyway. Even those who appear to "have it all" at this stage and are offered places at the top schools arestatistically  very unlikely to make it all the way through vocational training and work as a professional ballet dancer. Much has previously been written regarding the tiny number of the original WL year 7 cohorts who have made it as far as the Upper School in recent years. I have no desire to reopen the debate on possible reasons for this, but the figures themselves are sobering reading. It's a big chunk of childhood and the chances of reaching the ultimate goal are slim. If you want your eyes wide open I would say these are the most important things to consider, not the state of the dormitories.

It is crucial that the journey is enjoyable in it's own right, not seen as something that has to be endured on the way to reaching the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow. Everyone is different. Some children love their time at vocational school of course, but if you read old posts on here you will find many stories of those who had very negative experiences. There's also your wider family to consider - the financial impact, effects on other children etc. It is more of a strain for some families and others, and it is perfectly reasonable to factor those things in. It's not easy. The decision whether to send an 11 year old to boarding school of any kind is tricky, without the added pressure of the ballet world. If your DC does go, be sure that they understand, as much as an 11 year old can, the realities of longer term prospects, and be sure to keep the door to home fully open. There are so many stories of unhappy children, and their parents, sticking it out at vocational schools because they felt guilty that they would be walking away from an opportunity that so many others have been denied, or those who were afraid to raise issues because of fears of being overlooked for future opportunities  (all schools, not specifically RBS. ) Remember the decision isn't irreversible. If it doesn't work out as you hoped they can come home. Equally, full time training at 11 isn't the only way forwards. Above all, be sure that being there, in the moment, is worth it and is making your DC happy. And that they - and you - are happy with the other types of work that trained dancers tend to get. There are lots of other good potential outcomes but don't focus on the dream of a classical career. Don't suffer now because of the dreams of future glory. 

[Sophoife]

1 hour ago, BalletcoForum Moderators said:

would yet again remind everyone that this is a public forum and can be read by anybody, even if they don't sign up as members. 

 

I would like to say here that I know for a fact that at least one company artistic director in the USA reads this forum. Because he called his retiring principal dancer in to say he'd seen mention on this forum of his retirement, then showed him the page 😳 (I think maybe he was idly googling his dancers to assess their social media reach or something) so I fully support the mods in their endeavours and reasons.

 

My name is Anna Campbell, I live in Albury NSW and I'm not hiding behind my online nick of 27 years.

[invisiblecircus]

I've also got no personal experience of the school but I'd advise you to think about what other options you have before deciding what's best for your child. Would you aim to continue classes after school if you don't take up the WL place? 

Quite a few posters have written about their experiences at WL on other threads if you do a search, but remember that two children/ families can have completely different experiences of a school, even if they were there at the same time, so you can't always go by what you read. I went to a different vocational school and had an incredible experience, but others who were there at the same time as me, even in the same class and dorm are still traumatised! I think much depends on the personality of the child as well. 

I have to say that in everything I've heard about WL or read about on here, I've never heard complaints about cleanliness, but if that is a concern (and it sounds as if it was on the day you went) you can ask specifically about it. It could just have been an unlucky moment. The boarding houses are what they are and you and your child have to decide whether they'd be happy living there. 

[Jan McNulty]

48 minutes ago, Sophoife said:

 

I would like to say here that I know for a fact that at least one company artistic director in the USA reads this forum. Because he called his retiring principal dancer in to say he'd seen mention on this forum of his retirement, then showed him the page 😳 (I think maybe he was idly googling his dancers to assess their social media reach or something) so I fully support the mods in their endeavours and reasons.

 

My name is Anna Campbell, I live in Albury NSW and I'm not hiding behind my online nick of 27 years.

 

A number of dancers over the years have mentioned to me comments they have seen on the forum.  I am also aware that dance journalists read the forum.  It is a public forum at the end of the day.

[WhereToNow]

From my own experience, I would suggest to ask for parents to directly message you.  This worked for me when I wanted more info on a vocational school, many parents will be happy to share their experiences.  Some even picked up the phone to speak with me.

With this good and bad feedback, you can then weigh up your options and make the best decision for your DC.  Only you know what your DC can handle, and what environment would suit them.  It’s by no means an easy decision.  

 

I would also keep in mind that some of issues highlighted with vocational school, are the same you find in alot of Secondary Schools - I had the privilege of this insight, as my DD was accepted to a vocational school for yr10, so had 3yrs of ‘normal’ school to compare.

 

Good Luck with the decision making!

[Kate_N]

3 hours ago, Pups_mum said:

It is crucial that the journey is enjoyable in it's own right, not seen as something that has to be endured on the way to reaching the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow.

 

This is worth repeating. It's so so important. Brava @Pups_mum !

 

I teach young adults in the performing arts in higher education - only about 5% of them will "make it." So we are bound to ensure they get an excellent education in all sorts of ways, with 'transferable skills,' knowledge, ability to collaborate and work with others in a professional way,  and most importantly, a reasonable and rational understanding of themselves as people, and their strengths & weaknesses, and what they can contribute to whatever they turn their hands & minds to.

 

And those so-called "soft skills" of communication, performance, hard work etc are very very valuable, whatever young people end up doing. A good education in the creative & performing arts is a precious, valuable thing.

[glowlight]

Congratulations to your child @DanceDaddy.  Being offered a place at White Lodge is a huge achievement and you deserve to be very proud of them.

 

Well done for doing your research and trying to go into this with your eyes open.  Only the people with recent experience of White Lodge can really provide you with the insight you are looking for, and I hope that some of them will reach out to you via personal messages.

 

Sadly your question has come up at a time when emotions seem to be running high on the forum, but there have been plenty of other threads still available which discuss the pros and cons of White Lodge, and of vocational training in general.  From what I saw of the removed threads they probably wouldn't have answered your questions anyway.  

 

Good luck with your decision.

 

 

[DanceDaddy]

7 hours ago, Kate_N said:

 

There is information on this site about the RBS. However, a recent discussion started to get personal. Moderators are volunteers and have to be aware of legalities around public discussions of individuals.

 

And perhaps, preparation for boarding is teaching your children basic hygiene, and care for their environment, and respect for others around them, so children don't leave lavatories messy ... 

It wasn’t my child that made a mess, they have never been in a dorm. Besides, we have taught all of our children basic hygiene and respect for others long before the age of 11. Nevertheless, thanks for your input…

[OnTheMove]

Congratulations for your child.

 

If I was in your position my main concern would be if my child would cope with being assessed out in year 9. There’s a good 50/50 chance they will be. That’s a big disruption. And no guarantee of getting into a good school after that to continue their training. 
 

If they’ve also been offered a ballet school that’s guaranteed the full 5 years, I would be seriously considering that instead. 
 

But also, living at White Lodge is a wonderful experience for many. 
 

I don’t envy you right now! 
 

Good luck. 

[DanceDaddy]

7 hours ago, oncnp said:

If you are looking for a balanced opinion, look elsewhere. Every discussion seems to end up as a feeding frenzy of negativity, with people hiding behind their screen names and "I didn't name the school" when it is perfectly clear which school is being discussed.  And God help you if you dare to disagree with the mob. Not unlike the real world where the ability to have a civilized disagreement has been lost. 

 

Have you ever actually run a forum?  Do you know whether the phrase you suggest offers any legal protection whatsoever? 

 

As for the state of the toilets, definitely a turn off. But, in addition to @Kate_N above, the more pertinent question for me would be how often are they cleaned ?  Did someone just have GI/GU distress (perhaps even another parent) and the cleaner just not gotten to it yet?  And what did they say when you pointed this out to them? 

 

 

Hello. As I’m sure you can imagine, whilst going through the stressful process of trying to get your child accepted at the RBS, the timing wasn’t right to point out the cleanliness of their toilet pans! We will discuss it with them if we choose to accept their offer. We will indeed ask how often they are cleaned. Never seen anything quite like it. 

[glowlight]

There is another factor which I think you probably need, though whether it should be a deciding factor very much depends on you and your child.  

 

If you decide for your child that they cannot take up the place, after all the hard work that they have put in to be offered the place, is it likely to result in resentment further down the line?  As I said this depends very much on your child, but if during their teenage years they feel you had prevented them from pursuing this opportunity it could cause problems.

 

Sometimes parents do have to override for various reasons, but when we do we have to remember that it is their life.  

 

I think what I'm saying is to try to involve your child in the decision as much as possible.  

[Dancing unicorn]

I can relate to that! Although not a big school, I was accepted into a full time ballet school when I was 16! My dad said yes, my mum said no! I never forgave her for saying no I couldn’t go! I ended up on a typing course instead, hated it! But, years later after I’d started my own small School, I was ‘given’ a bigger school as they had heard of my teaching! I’ve never looked back 💗

[Prancer]

38 minutes ago, glowlight said:

There is another factor which I think you probably need, though whether it should be a deciding factor very much depends on you and your child.  

 

If you decide for your child that they cannot take up the place, after all the hard work that they have put in to be offered the place, is it likely to result in resentment further down the line?  As I said this depends very much on your child, but if during their teenage years they feel you had prevented them from pursuing this opportunity it could cause problems.

 

Sometimes parents do have to override for various reasons, but when we do we have to remember that it is their life.  

 

I think what I'm saying is to try to involve your child in the decision as much as possible.  

I think this is an extremely important point. You say that your child really wants to go. They may go and hate it, and come home again. They may go and have the best experience of their life, for however long that ends up being. Once you have taken your child down the stressful road of auditioning and then they are successful in getting a place at their dream school, will telling them that they can't go after all end up having an even bigger negative effect on them than trying it out would have? Would they resent you? Would they always wonder "what if"?

 

A lot will depend on your other options. If you have good local schools and training that you can slot back into in time, if necessary, then what do you have to lose in giving it a go? 

 

On a separate note, and not relating to the original poster, I've often puzzled over why some parents seem to throw everything into their child auditioning at certain schools and then say that they never wanted to go there in the first place. Why put your child through the audition process if you don't want to go to the school? Let alone half-heartedly taking up a place that another child is desperately longing for. There are plenty of opportunities to attend open days and insight days at vocational schools. I would suggest doing your homework first and then only applying to schools that you actually want to get into. Just my opinion and I know others will disagree, but it has never made sense to me to audition for a school that you don't like, and especially to tell all the other candidates/parents that you don't like it while you're at the audition. I've experienced this so many times! Perhaps these days the temptation to "Instabrag" has taken over...

[Neverdancedjustamum]

13 minutes ago, RubyM said:

 

On a separate note, and not relating to the original poster, I've often puzzled over why some parents seem to throw everything into their child auditioning at certain schools and then say that they never wanted to go there in the first place. Why put your child through the audition process if you don't want to go to the school? Let alone half-heartedly taking up a place that another child is desperately longing for. There are plenty of opportunities to attend open days and insight days at vocational schools. I would suggest doing your homework first and then only applying to schools that you actually want to get into. Just my opinion and I know others will disagree, but it has never made sense to me to audition for a school that you don't like, and especially to tell all the other candidates/parents that you don't like it while you're at the audition. I've experienced this so many times! Perhaps these days the temptation to "Instabrag" has taken over...

I think that after investing so much time and money into preparing for auditions, parents let their DCs audition to at least the most ‘well known’ schools often with one school as the goal and 1-2 as back up. Perhaps this is cynical of me, but like you and having experienced this numerous times, sadly I do think part of it all is being able to announce on social media how many finals/offers one received. I am guilty of this - letting my DC audition to schools they had no intention of attending. At the time, I told myself (and DC) to just go to the finals for the experience of it. Yet even then, as I sat in the car when we dropped them off, I felt a sense of guilt watching them walk up to the school knowing full well they might be the only one going in there not really interested in a place so it was quite pointless. I think when you’re in year 6 and go to associates or local dance schools that specially prepare pre-vocationally, it’s so easy to get carried away with it all. 

[Balletmummy18]

As others have said , you know your child best and in my dd year some thrived and loved WL and others did not ( including my dd.) I’ll just add on the toilet issue the memorable day when the toilet fell down on my dd friend in year 9! Luckily she caught it with super strength only ballet dancers seem to have 🤣. I believe  the toilets have been updated since …

[Jane156]

3 minutes ago, Balletmummy18 said:

As others have said , you know your child best and in my dd year some thrived and loved WL and others did not ( including my dd.) I’ll just add on the toilet issue the memorable day when the toilet fell down on my dd friend in year 9! Luckily she caught it with super strength only ballet dancers seem to have 🤣. I believe  the toilets have been updated since …

Can you explain why your dd hated it? Just being away from home or something more specific? 

[Balletmummy18]

I’ll dm you.xx

[richieN]

On 21/03/2023 at 08:55, DanceDaddy said:

Good morning all,

 

Our child has recently been offered a place at WL in year 7. They want to go, but rather than go into this with eyes wide shut, we wanted to do some research and learn from the past experiences of others. Looks like we just missed the boat and a recent thread has been removed by the moderators for one reason or another. I am a member of many forums and have never in my life known for a thread to be deleted. Locked yes, but deleted? All the forum needs to do is state that any opinions shared on the forum are not of their own and are of the members. Forums are very useful source of impartial information and was hoping to learn here. 

 

Can someone give us a little flavour as to what to expect please? How did they child cope with boarding? Was the school helpful in settling them in etc?

 

For £34k a year, the dorms are basic to say the least. The toilet in the dorms was covered in #%^* when we did a tour a few weeks and that’s when the school knew that  prospective parents were coming in. Any cleaners? 
 

If the forum doesn’t allow discussion on RBS, which is shocking I’d this is the case, can someone just DM me please?

 

Many thanks I’m advance.

 

DD

 

DM me. I can advise you. 

[Julsgalaxy]

On 21/03/2023 at 08:55, DanceDaddy said:

Good morning all,

 

Our child has recently been offered a place at WL in year 7. They want to go, but rather than go into this with eyes wide shut, we wanted to do some research and learn from the past experiences of others. Looks like we just missed the boat and a recent thread has been removed by the moderators for one reason or another. I am a member of many forums and have never in my life known for a thread to be deleted. Locked yes, but deleted? All the forum needs to do is state that any opinions shared on the forum are not of their own and are of the members. Forums are very useful source of impartial information and was hoping to learn here. 

 

Can someone give us a little flavour as to what to expect please? How did they child cope with boarding? Was the school helpful in settling them in etc?

 

For £34k a year, the dorms are basic to say the least. The toilet in the dorms was covered in #%^* when we did a tour a few weeks and that’s when the school knew that  prospective parents were coming in. Any cleaners? 
 

If the forum doesn’t allow discussion on RBS, which is shocking I’d this is the case, can someone just DM me please?

 

Many thanks I’m advance.

 

DD

You are more than welcome to DM me as my DC is currently in yr7 .

Congratulations to your DC.

They have been having issues with the toilets in the dorms recently and they have been “flooding”🙈 but they have had plumbers in to fix them 

[taxi4ballet]

21 hours ago, RubyM said:

I would suggest doing your homework first and then only applying to schools that you actually want to get into.

Whilst I agree with doing your homework, and only applying to schools you would accept a place at, there is another viewpoint...

 

Until your child starts the audition process, you (and they) will have no idea where they are in the hierarchy, even if they are an associate at a particular school already. There's no point in only applying for your dream school and one other and be offered a place at neither, when there could have been a possibility of a place elsewhere if you had only cast your net wider. You can be turned down flat by one school and accepted with open arms by another. If you restrict your search too much and don't get a coveted place, there will always be a 'What if...?' at the back of your mind forever more. There is also the question of funding. A funded place might be offered at one school and an unfunded place at another, and for those who need funding, that is a big consideration.

[Adagio123]

1 hour ago, taxi4ballet said:

Whilst I agree with doing your homework, and only applying to schools you would accept a place at, there is another viewpoint...

 

Until your child starts the audition process, you (and they) will have no idea where they are in the hierarchy, even if they are an associate at a particular school already. There's no point in only applying for your dream school and one other and be offered a place at neither, when there could have been a possibility of a place elsewhere if you had only cast your net wider. You can be turned down flat by one school and accepted with open arms by another. If you restrict your search too much and don't get a coveted place, there will always be a 'What if...?' at the back of your mind forever more. There is also the question of funding. A funded place might be offered at one school and an unfunded place at another, and for those who need funding, that is a big consideration.

I totally agree with this as someone currently going through the process with a Year 6 DD. We started this process not knowing if it is what we really wanted but i am glad we did as we now know that a vocational school is what would be best for my DD. There just arent the opportunities locally for her. We had pre conceived ideas of what school we preferred until we attended the auditions and what we though we would like the most is actually what we liked the least. I can understand the resentment towards those with no intention of taking a place but i also believe that everyone has the right to change their mind which will and has happened. Isnt it best to try and make that decision once you know where you stand than always be wondering what if? 

[Prancer]

My issue was more with the children and parents attending auditions at a particular school while telling everyone that they don't like the school and wouldn't accept a place even if offered. That's very different than exploring your options when you're undecided. 

[taxi4ballet]

40 minutes ago, RubyM said:

My issue was more with the children and parents attending auditions at a particular school while telling everyone that they don't like the school and wouldn't accept a place even if offered. That's very different than exploring your options when you're undecided. 

That strikes me as the sort of thing some people might say to put others off, so that their own dc stands a better chance of getting in.

[Adagio123]

10 minutes ago, taxi4ballet said:

That strikes me as the sort of thing some people might say to put others off, so that their own dc stands a better chance of getting in.

I am not sure how it would make a difference unless you mean it would put someone off to decline the place so they could accept theirs? 

[Adagio123]

52 minutes ago, RubyM said:

My issue was more with the children and parents attending auditions at a particular school while telling everyone that they don't like the school and wouldn't accept a place even if offered. That's very different than exploring your options when you're undecided. 

Maybe the audition was the moment they realised it wasnt right for them

[Prancer]

Not in the examples I've experienced.