RAD Marks awarded

[balletbean]

Evening all, 

I have just been trawling through the RAD website without success. 

 

Could anyone help me with a link to the website page that would have the Grades and the Marks awarded for the RAD Graded and Vocational exams. (How many pupils awarded Pass, Merit and Distinctions but also what their scores were within the awards). 

 

Purely for my personal research purposes.

 

Thank you

[balletgremlin]

Here's a link which gives the classifications for UK/worldwide for each grade, but not a breakdown of the scores.

[Picturesinthefirelight]

I don't think the statistics are published in that much detail. 

 

These graphs are  avsilable. 

 

https://www.rad.org.uk/documents/exam-docs/copy_of_UK2016.pdf

[balletbean]

Thank you both for the links. 

 

Without a further breakdown it's impossible to know if all the Merits were just either one point away from a Pass or one point away from a Distinction and so on.  Of which interests me. 

 

Is there even an average mark awarded for a P, M and D?

[sophie_rebecca]

All of a sudden my Merit doesn't feel so special 

[youngatheart]

Of course it was special Sophie - the reason so few "only" get a pass is because most teachers won't put their more borderline pupils in at all....... not because it's easy to get a merit!

[balletbean]

5 hours ago, sophie_rebecca said:

All of a sudden my Merit doesn't feel so special 

Why do you think that Sophie_Rebecca? 

[sophie_rebecca]

22 minutes ago, balletbean said:

Why do you think that Sophie_Rebecca? 

 

It's was just a light hearted comment at the fact 64% of awards were merit's last year, with 29% Distinctions & 6.5% a Pass, as youngatheart says most trachers wouldn't put their pupils in until they knew they were capable of a merit, I know Lynne didn't with me, I'm doing Grade 7 at the moment, I haven't decided if I will take the exam or not yet as I'm really looking forward to the new repertoire syllabus next year & may switch to that but if I to take it I know I'll want a gold medal so have a lot more hard work ahead.

[hfbrew]

I am always sad that borderline students are often not entered because teachers are more concerned about their records. I had a number of straight passes last session as well as the usual merits and distinctions. 

And I can honestly say that for some students the pass mark is a tremendous achievement and I am very proud of them, probably more so than of those who find Ballet easier. 

I fear that such statistics can stop people from recognising and being proud of their own personal achievements. 

[Sadielou]

Totally agree hfbrew,. Over the years I have entered several students for exams that have been borderline. But they were so determined, to try that I felt that they should be given the opportunity to enter. In all of these cases these students have made me so proud even if they only got a pass mark.  It was a huge achievement for them, more so than those that were obviously more talented and didn't need to work as hard to get a Merit or Distinction. I just wish their parents could appreciate this and not feel that their child is a failure if they are not Merit / Distinction material.

[Sadielou]

Another reflection on exam marks - just wonder if any of you out there feel the same. In my day (many years ago) There were 5 tiers.

Pass, Pass Plus, Commended, Highly Commended and Honours. I do feel that with just the three tiers and especially with Merit having such a wide mark margin, it is now all a bit vague.

There is after all a huge gap between 55 and 74 marks. I now hear all the time teachers saying that their students received a High Merit, which as we know does not actually exist, but obviously there is a need to clarify.

[youngatheart]

20 hours ago, hfbrew said:

I am always sad that borderline students are often not entered because teachers are more concerned about their records. I had a number of straight passes last session as well as the usual merits and distinctions. 

And I can honestly say that for some students the pass mark is a tremendous achievement and I am very proud of them, probably more so than of those who find Ballet easier. 

I fear that such statistics can stop people from recognising and being proud of their own personal achievements. 

 

It's the system that's broken hfbrew. The fear among some teachers of having someone fail is very real - there seems to be such a massive stigma attached to it in the ballet world, that is why they will not take the risk. Of course in reality it should be all about how about failure is handled - i.e. NOT "You've ruined our 100% pass rate, what a disaster, my reputation will be tarnished for ever!" but "never mind, I failed my Advanced 1 three times but I got there in the end! At least you've got a set of marks to build on, if we can just work on your pirouettes and allegro a bit more you should easily pass next time....."

 

Unfortunately scenario B seems extremely unrealistic in this "all-must-have-prizes" culture of entitlement where children must be protected from failure at all costs - in my day we were brought up to believe that failure was character-building - "If at first you don't succeed, then try and try again" - but all that seems to have gone out of the window now.

[hfbrew]

I agree but I am coming more from the view point of the lower grades, not vocational ones such as Advanced 1 which students and students know will be tough to pass.

Many teachers of the lower grades will not enter students if they feel that they will fall below merit and some will only enter pupils of distinction standard. They do not want lowly passes on their records so children who struggle are not given the opportunity to try for an award which quite possibly mean more to them than those more able.

[Pas de Quatre]

This seems to be happening for GCSEs too. Over the last few years I have had pupils disappointed that they could not take French or German as they were only predicted a C result. It has to be prediction of a B to be allowed to take the exam - and then you get lots of press articles moaning that not enough pupils study languages. This is at two girls Grammar schools in our area, both full of high fliers and the schools high up in the league tables.

[Kate_N]

It's because we've come to confuse learning with exam results achieved. Tail wags dog at the moment, sadly.

[balletbean]

On 9/5/2017 at 10:23, Sadielou said:

 

There is after all a huge gap between 55 and 74 marks. I now hear all the time teachers saying that their students received a High Merit, which as we know does not actually exist, but obviously there is a need to clarify.

Sadielou, This was partly my reason for asking the question. On this forum I have seen a few times a 'high merit' quoted. Having never seen this expression anywhere else I was curious. Thinking that the marks were released on a web page somewhere and I had missed them. 

 

I totally agree with you on the 55 to 74 mark. There is a a huge difference on the standard achieved/awarded.

[Guest]

11 minutes ago, balletbean said:

Sadielou, This was partly my reason for asking the question. On this forum I have seen a few times a 'high merit' quoted. Having never seen this expression anywhere else I was curious. Thinking that the marks were released on a web page somewhere and I had missed them. 

 

I totally agree with you on the 55 to 74 mark. There is a a huge difference on the standard achieved/awarded.

Agree that 'pass' 'merit' and 'distinction' tell you little - you can always quote the actual mark if you are filling in a form. Especially since different exam boards set different mark thresholds. Please also spare a thought for students taking music exams - where 86% is still 'only a merit'.

[balletbean]

1 minute ago, mnemo said:

Agree that 'pass' 'merit' and 'distinction' tell you little - you can always quote the actual mark if you are filling in a form. Especially since different exam boards set different mark thresholds. Please also spare a thought for students taking music exams - where 86% is still 'only a merit'.

Yikes, that is high. 

 

With the new academic GCSE grades. To receive a coveted '9' which is apparently the 'cream of the crop' a student has to get 79% or above.

 

For a ''5' it is 52%. Not too sure if awarded a '1' which is also a pass what a student would have had to have been given.  

[Legseleven]

Good grief! Are those new GCSE marking system levels 'set in stone' or do the level 9s go to the top percentage and then the rest of the levels in tranches? 

[balletbean]

I'm not too sure.

With all the publicity I really thought a 9 would be 90% and above, an 8 would be 80 to 89% etc. No disrespect to those having just received a 9 but I honestly thought the marks were higher. Especially as some  of the subjects had up to 3 separate papers. One student I know had to sit 27 GCSE exam papers, in just one exam season. Not forgetting the music and dancing exams. No wonder she was mentally and phonically exhausted by the end. 

 

On a slightly different note: On the BBC news page yesterday, quoted Dancers and Choreographers earning more than a Solicitor. Not too sure which planet the BBC found their info  

Edited September 6, 2017 by balletbean

[youngatheart]

Yes it is all bonkers! Such as getting a pass at higher tier in Maths with 17%, which is something I have seen quoted in the newspapers recently.

 

hfbrew I wasn't specifically talking about vocational grades but ballet exams in general. Of course a child who failed could be "traumatised" if they knew they were one of only two people in the entire world to fail at that grade (which according to these stats they may well be!), and had previously received the strong message from the culture in their school that "it's completely unacceptable to ever have anyone fail so I'm not going to risk putting you in," even for someone who actually had a 60% chance of passing and fully understood the risk of failing and was ready to accept it.

 

However, not being deemed good enough to enter in the first place is just "failure" by another name. IMO it is discrimination pure and simple to deny the child (or indeed adult) the opportunity of achieving a certificate that they are fully entitled to. A 100% pass rate, or "all merits & distinctions" is totally meaningless unless EVERY pupil has entered (or been offered the opportunity of entering) the exam. Personally I would rather see a full profile of results from high distinctions to passes and even an occasional fail at the higher levels, than mainly distinctions and a few merits with the majority not being "invited" to enter at all. (Obviously a profile of mainly passes and a few merits/fails is a different matter, and would suggest that the pupils are being entered before they are ready.)

 

Yes teachers ARE judged by the exam boards on their results - but probably not as harshly as some seem to believe.....

[balletbean]

The other factor to consider with exam results:  Are the teachers adhering to the recommended hours per RAD grades?

 

I have seen a couple of posts where a DC has taken several exams in one year. I can't see how the recommended hours could have actually been achieved. Will this affect the marks awarded and thus the overall %'s? 

 

Not too sure now if I should have asked the original question, oops. 

[Nicola H]

1 hour ago, Legseleven said:

Good grief! Are those new GCSE marking system levels 'set in stone' or do the level 9s go to the top percentage and then the rest of the levels in tranches? 

It's called  criteria  referenced marking  and it;s not a new thing,  in this type of markign moderation  only moves  the  grade boundaries   and markign criteria slightly  , however this is to provide consistencny with  the  criteria  and  comparaility  between current  diet and previous diets on same  specification. 

in norm referenced marking  the   awarding body has predetermined   what proprtion of  candidites will achieve a amark and  moving boundaries to  ensure consistency is restricted  by that. 

[taxi4ballet]

1 hour ago, balletbean said:

The other factor to consider with exam results:  Are the teachers adhering to the recommended hours per RAD grades?

 

I have seen a couple of posts where a DC has taken several exams in one year. I can't see how the recommended hours could have actually been achieved. Will this affect the marks awarded and thus the overall %'s? 

 

Not too sure now if I should have asked the original question, oops. 

My dd took several exams in quick succession as her teacher was pushing her along a bit, and I dare say she would have got higher marks if she'd stayed in each grade for longer.

[Picturesinthefirelight]

The new maths gcse higher tier contains questions that range in difficulty from level 4 up to level 9. There are no easier questions. 

 

Therefore in order to gain a level 4 pass a candidate has to answer those level 4 questions hence the lower percentage required. The new exams contain much harder content (that was previously only set for A level). 

[Nicola H]

2 hours ago, Picturesinthefirelight said:

The new maths gcse higher tier contains questions that range in difficulty from level 4 up to level 9. There are no easier questions. 

 

Therefore in order to gain a level 4 pass a candidate has to answer those level 4 questions hence the lower percentage required. The new exams contain much harder content (that was previously only set for A level). 

which isn;t  really a change from  the old system  (barring new content)  iirc when there were three teirs of   gcse papers   you basically had a CSE paper  ( exceptional marks  get a C  most candidates will get D-G)  an O level paper ( C-A* , narrow chance of a D  else  Ungraded)  and a  paper for the marginal level 2 pass candidate ( trading the chance for Aor A*   to be  more likely to get a C  with the  mark range  providing  B-E  grades)

[Guest]

3 hours ago, balletbean said:

The other factor to consider with exam results:  Are the teachers adhering to the recommended hours per RAD grades?

 

I have seen a couple of posts where a DC has taken several exams in one year. I can't see how the recommended hours could have actually been achieved. Will this affect the marks awarded and thus the overall %'s? 

 

Not too sure now if I should have asked the original question, oops. 

Don't assume that the grades were studied sequentially, its not uncommon for some students to be taking 2 grades at once especially as a way of boosting total lesson time per week.

[taxi4ballet]

14 minutes ago, mnemo said:

Don't assume that the grades were studied sequentially, its not uncommon for some students to be taking 2 grades at once especially as a way of boosting total lesson time per week.

That's how to do it - overlap the grades and take several classes a week. There's no other way really.

[balletbean]

1 hour ago, taxi4ballet said:

That's how to do it - overlap the grades and take several classes a week. There's no other way really.

I understand, my DD has been overlapping her ballet grades for the past couple of years, as the recommended hours can work out at about 2yrs of training (after school). After the 1st year of one Grade, she starts on the next Grade. Thus taking exams annually.  It's been an education for me. Didn't even know there was a possibility of taking exams any quicker.   Just curious on results, trying to break out of my little bubble and see what the rest of the UK are up to and the standard to expect for my DD at US auditions. 

[Guest]

51 minutes ago, balletbean said:

I understand, my DD has been overlapping her ballet grades for the past couple of years, as the recommended hours can work out at about 2yrs of training (after school). After the 1st year of one Grade, she starts on the next Grade. Thus taking exams annually.  It's been an education for me. Didn't even know there was a possibility of taking exams any quicker.   Just curious on results, trying to break out of my little bubble and see what the rest of the UK are up to and the standard to expect for my DD at US auditions. 

Gosh that's a tough one to answer! Working grades of applicants for US seem to be anything from Intermediate to Adv 2, some students don't actually take exams, there are a lot of different exam boards out there so hard to compare. Not to mention overseas applicants..

[hfbrew]

The thing with auditions is that there will be successful candidates who have not done any external exams at all whereas others who have been used to high marks either in exams or festivals will not necessarily be what an audition panel wants.

It's the level that a student is working at, not necessarily the mark achieved and whether they are deemed to have the potential to progress well in whatever school that they are auditioning for. As someone has already said,it's the learning that's important. A high mark in an exam is wonderful but if it has been attained by only ever studying the relevant syllabus content to the exclusion of any other work then that is not in depth training.

I remember a teacher friend who conducted audition classes saying that some students were so far advanced that the panel felt that their establishment was not for them. Possibly too entrenched in one style perhaps? I have certainly known of a Principal saying that students who were too obviously "festival" dancers weren't as successful at audition.

 

I like my students to take exams and take pride in achieving the best that they personally can, be it pass ,merit or distinction. For these students this matters because they are not going to become professional dancers but they do like to have achieved certain milestones. But talented vocational students I feel should be looking at the bigger picture and getting good quality training. And this doesn't have to entail taking every exam and getting high marks.