Babies called Darc(e)y

[toursenlair]

I noticed in the list of the top 100 baby girl's names in the UK in 2014 that Darcey has moved up from 84th place to 72nd, and that Darcy is holding strong at 93rd. Darcie has made it in to the top 100 for the first time, up 23 spots at 80th. If you combine them, Darcey/Darcy/Darcie would be the 23rd most popular name. Coincidence? I think not.

 

Here's the list if you're curious:

http://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/ng-interactive/2015/aug/17/100-most-popular-baby-names-england-wales-full-list

Edited August 21, 2015 by toursenlair

[John Mallinson]

And the RB's Olivia Grace Cowley - she came in 2nd for Olivia and 12th for Grace. Coincidence? I guess so!

[Two Pigeons]

Sorry, it has to be the Strictly effect. I'm amazed there hasn't been a surge in Lens, Antons and Brunos. However, we should be grateful for small mercies.

[Jan McNulty]

But the name Gary is fading away.  No Garys have been registered in the UK since 1992!

[Ian Macmillan]

..... and not an Ian/Iain in sight nor, indeed, a John - unless you count Jack in that regard.

[Primaballerina1]

My sister is a teacher and teaches an Ian who is 5 and everyone is shocks that he is called Ian and he isn't an old man????

[Ian Macmillan]

... and I was 5 once .... but that was some time hence .... and now I come to think about it, there weren't all that many of us then either.  

[Guest]

Whats in a name? Don't you find it strange that some names (e.g.Thomas, William, Edward, Anne, Elizabeth)are perennially popular and yet others are very much of their time? I took my

children to York Minster when they were young and they asked me why everyone buried in there was called Thomas - which was not so far from the truth. Thinking of the

very OT names that were so popular in the 18th & 19th centuries. My family tree includes Abraham, Jesse and Jeremiah (all blokes) and my 3x greatgrandmother was actually called Temperance.

Presumably the family had not yet acquired its liking for dry white wine.

 

And I think I know why the name Gary is becoming extinct - I would blame radio 4 and 'Old Harry's game' as it had a chief demon called Gary

[All4dancers]

I am a primary school teacher and last year in my class I had an Ian, Kevin, Stanley and a Percy!

[Primaballerina1]

Wow all4dancers!!!

[Fiz]

This is completely serious. Yesterday when we were walking our new Labrador puppy, I heard a mother say to her five year old daughter "Get here right now, Phoenix!" Poor child. The Spice Girls strike again!

[FLOSS]

Some parents saddle their children with ridiculous names or names which practically tell you when they were born.I wonder whether girls given names like Jade,Crystal,Daisy and Pixie feel happy with them when they get older or how children given diminutives feel about their names when they get older? As far as diminutives are concerned my experience has been that the children concerned, when they are young, are often unaware that their name is a shortened form and look at you blankly when you try to ascertain for the records whether they are Alex or Alexander;Tommy or Thomas;Billy or William?

 

I knew someone who used to work in social services who was convinced that you could almost identify children who were at risk because of the names that they were given. She used to say that her files were full of children whose names were so peculiar that they revealed their parents' lack of concern for the impact they would have on their offspring.

 

I seem to recall that a study was undertaken some years ago which was said to show that teachers' attitudes towards their pupils was influenced by their given names.So that the Noahs and Jeremiahs in their class were at a disadvantage when compared with children whose parents had conformed to the norms. But it is odd to think that a child called Barry would have an advantage over one called Finnbar.

 

Do you think that the name Darcey is likely to have staying power or is it one of those names that in future years will pinpoint with awful accuracy its bearer's age?. Here are a couple of examples of the sort of transitory name that I have in mind.My father had a friend whose name was Verdun when he was old enough he began calling himself Vernon and no one except those who had been in his class knew the awful truth.Then there are all those men of a certain age who were called Elvis.I wonder what they call themselves?

 

So what is in a name? It used to be noticeable that there were certain names that were not used by Irish Catholics, Elizabeth for example, and others that were used almost exclusively by people whose families were non conformist or whose history was nonconformist.Celebrity names make that sort of identification a little more difficult now but not impossible.

Edited August 26, 2015 by FLOSS

[Fiz]

I thought about names when I was pregnant and the one thing we were both sure of was that we didn't want anything that would sound ridiculous when they were older. Both daughters have names that sound all right however young or old they are. One name has been around since the Middle Ages and the other since the 17th century, so they have staying power! I believe they both appear regularly in the top twenty name charts too.

[Jan McNulty]

Names are always going to come and go.  I haven't met any Ethelreds (or even Ethels) recently.

 

We talk, and even laugh, about what seem to many of us to be odd name choices but does it really matter.  When the child is old enough to make their own decisions about their name, they can!  After all, the baby introduced to the world as Zowie Bowie is now, of course, celebrated film director Duncan Jones.

 

A friend tells the story of her late Mum who was always known as Winnie, although it was not her first name.  When she moved into a home and my friend went to visit her for the first time the receptionist initially did not know who she was talking about.  Her Mum, at the age of 91, had decided she wanted to be known by her first name of Lucy!

[Two Pigeons]

I remember going to an RBS show I the early 80s and there were something lime 3 Irenes and a couple of Jolyons. As we all counted back to the 1960s we saluted tbe success that was The Forsyte Saga. Even in black and white.

[FLOSS]

There was a great change in names after the Conquest when Anglo Saxon names went out of favour.Even now the bulk of standard first names which are not biblical tend to be the ones that the Normans brought with them such as Henry and William.Edward seems to have crept back into favour because Henry III had a great devotion to Edward the Confessor and having lost Normandy the ruling elite were working hard to create a new less Norman identity for themselves.

 

You can get a very good idea about what many of our medieval ancestors were named from surnames based on parental christian names which came in with the original poll tax.From the number of people whose surnames are based on the names Thomas and William it is clear that both were very popular given names.Then there is the great outbreak of old testament given names that follow the Reformation and the puritan ones that Johnson made fun of when he named one of his characters Zeal-of-the-Land Busy.

 

The bulk of Germanic/Anglo Saxon names, apart from Edward,Edmund and Cuthbert,seem to have disappeared from general use until the nineteenth century so few Alfreds,Bedes,Cedds,Dunstans,Edgars or Edwins until then.Why they reemerged is not so obvious. But at one point, at about the same time that the Germans abandoned their taste for all things French ,families in this family who had always been at pains to emphasize that their family came over with the Conquest suddenly became interested in their Anglo Saxon roots.Clearly antiquarianism and literature played their part in the choice of nineteenth century names.As there don't seem to have been that many boys called Hereward while many of us have a great,great uncle or a very distant cousin of our grandparents called Percy lurking in the family tree it would seem that Tennyson was very influential when it came to naming boys.

 

Is being named after a character from the Arthurian legends any better than being named after a television celebrity?

Edited August 26, 2015 by FLOSS

[taxi4ballet]

We know a teen Hereward.

[invisiblecircus]

Whats in a name? Don't you find it strange that some names (e.g.Thomas, William, Edward, Anne, Elizabeth)are perennially popular and yet others are very much of their time? 

 

Anne has not been in the top 100 girls names in recent years.

 

 

I seem to recall that a study was undertaken some years ago which was said to show that teachers' attitudes towards their pupils was influenced by their given names.So that the Noahs and Jeremiahs in their class were at a disadvantage when compared with children whose parents had conformed to the norms. But it is odd to think that a child called Barry would have an advantage over one called Finnbar.

 

 

Noah has been one of the top 10 boys names in the UK for a few years and in 2014 was the fourth most popular name for boys!

[Guest]

and of course the other issue (usually for women) is what happens when you get married because your carefully chosen first name may not go with your partners family name. A friend of mine who is a teacher, has the name Holly, the guy she married has the surname Day. She didn't change her name...

[toursenlair]

In Quebec women are not allowed to change their names when they get married!

[FLOSS]

Well here legally you can call yourself anything you like as long as you are not trying to mislead. However in real life because of the nature of our society where your details are recorded in so many places if you want the state and other institutions to accept your new identity and get them to alter their records you would need to take the deed poll route.Given the difficulty that you can experience in trying to open a bank account or paying largish sums into existing accounts I wonder whether it may not be just a little bit more complicated now.

 

Of course what a lot of people do is adopt a name and use it outside the wider family circle.My mother disliked her first name and it always came as a shock to hear it used, which it invariably was, when we went to stay with her aunts and cousins.To the world at large and to my father she was known by her middle name but not in the bosom of her family.Middle names and even confirmation names can come in useful. After all the only name that you have any choice about is your confirmation name,that is, if your parents are God fearing folk who believe in the seven sacraments . If you get confirmed it seems to me, that you should be just as concerned with the potential utility of the name in the future as the heroic qualities of the saint whose name and protection you adopt.Your parents saddle with your other names either out of sheer thoughtlessness or as a way of pleasing grandparents and aged relatives.Confirmation provides a young person with the opportunity to take action to undo the worst effects of their parents' stupidity or insensitivity and changes in taste.

 

You never know when a solid sounding name may be needed and if your parents haven't seen fit to provide you with at least one you need to set about acquiring one.You have to ask what some people are thinking of when they name their children? It is clear that while a few parents think about what their child may be called at school only an infinitesimal number ever contemplate the fact that their child will one day become middle aged or become a member of a learned profession. A name which may seem wonderful to doting parents takes on a completely different aspect when applied to the middle aged or the elderly.And then of course there is school where children can be very unkind to a child with an unusual name let alone a really whacky one and finally there is the great world of work.How would you feel if you knew that doctor or lawyer was called Pixie,Peaches orJade?Would you be able to take them or their advice seriously? I don't think that we will ever see the day when one of the Law Lords is called Pixie. I was told that at one time the Registrar would refuse to register a child with a name that would invite ridicule.However that didn't stop parents naming their daughter Rosemary Bottom and another family saddling their daughter with the name China Lee.

 

At one time the French were said to be very strict about the names that the state would allow to be registered, limiting acceptable names to those of saints and those derived from the classics. But their system wasn't intended to save children from ridicule but to prevent the use of non French names. I wonder how it is operated now, if at all?

 

 

Perhaps the simplest thing would be to adopt a system where you are given a "milk name" and then when you are old enough to be involved in the naming process you acquire your adult name or names.I suspect that such a system would bring its own difficulties apart from the cost of amending all the official records. After all what would happen if you actually liked your "milk name" and wanted to keep it? Would you be thought to be refusing to grow up and take responsibility of you tried to retain it?

Edited September 2, 2015 by FLOSS

[alison]

At one time the French were said to be very strict about the names that the state would allow to be registered, limiting acceptable names to those of saints and those derived from the classics. But their system wasn't intended to save children from ridicule but to prevent the use of non French names. I wonder how it is operated now, if at all?

 

I think it still is, although perhaps not as strictly as before.  And if your parents' background is non-French, I think you are given greater leeway anyway.  (I seem to remember someone - may have been on my sister-in-law's side? - who was allowed a non-French name because both parents were British, or something).

 

Talking about non-standard names, I get the feeling that some people compete to try and get their sons and daughters names that nobody else has thought of before, just so they can be unique.  Personally, I don't think that's a particularly good idea, especially in this internet age when anyone can Google anybody.  I'm sure there are times when people with "standout" names might actually appreciate being able to merge into the background

[invisiblecircus]

In Quebec women are not allowed to change their names when they get married!

 

It' the same in Italy!

 

It's funny because I spent my whole school life at the back of the line when we had to line up in alphabetical order. I used to joke I would marry someone whose surname began with A... and then it really happened! We live in Italy though so I didn't get the A surname I've always wanted! Luckily I liked other things about him too ;-)

 

I was thinking that at least my children will not be at the back of the line like I was, but here they seem to line them up in order of age and they're both the youngest in class!

[Legseleven]

It's the invented spellings that make me cringe - I'm sure some children must spend their lives assuring people that yes, their name really IS spelled like that..

[taxi4ballet]

It's always a good idea when thinking of middle names to check what their initials will be. I went to school with a boy whose initials were BRA and he was teased mercilessly!

[Moomin]

Darcey has been popular for at least the last 10 years and has I think been higher up the charts a couple of years ago. What a dull world it would be if nobody had the guts to name their child anything slightly different, it is all so subjective. I may think that Dr jade smith is more approachable and caring and less authoritarian than Dr Margaret smith. Or perhaps I knew a Margaret who was a bully and have lots of negative connotations? We all have different taste but I find very few names are truely terrible. I''ve met plenty of Professionals called Sharon, Tracey, Kevin and other names that are traditionally sneered at. And plenty of elderly ladies called daisy, molly and other diminutives (as their given name), it doesn't sound at all strange to me. Naming trends have changed and those names are so popular now that there will be plenty of professionals called that.

I can only think of Elizabeth and Katherine which I think are totally timeless. I dont think I've met a single Anne in mine or my childrens' generations and it would certainly 'date' someone as much as many other names do for me. To be honest though, if I meet somebody I think my 'smile lines' date me far more than my name, I've never really understood that argument! I may not be called my favourite name but I would never change it, it's special because my parents chose it with love (if it was 'zowie' I may feel differently though!).

[FLOSS]

I am not sure that I would be that happy if my parents had called me Jade.I think that I would wonder why my parents had not bothered to look the word up in a dictionary before they saddled me with it. I would wonder why I had been given a name which can mean not only a green stone that is used for ornaments but also a head strong disreputable  woman or a broken down or vicious horse.

 

If I were faced by your kindly Dr Jade Smith I suspect I would be spending my time wondering what her parents were thinking of when they named her rather than listening to what she was saying.I would not have that problem with Dr Margaret Smith.

Edited September 4, 2015 by FLOSS

[Jan McNulty]

I rather like the name Jade (despite what the dictionary gives for meanings other than a name).

[Legseleven]

Lots of names have meanings which are not pleasant. I remember Belinda meaning 'a snake' (I think) and I'm sure Emily, which is a classic and popular name, has a not-too-nice meaning. Equally, many people truly don't care what a name means as long as they like it - horses for courses. 

Edited September 4, 2015 by Legseleven

[toursenlair]

Belinda ♀ 

Of uncertain origin. It was used by Sir John Vanbrugh for a character in his comedy The Provok'd Wife (1697), was taken up by Alexander Pope in The Rape of the Lock (1712), and has enjoyed a steady popularity ever since. It is not certain where Vanbrugh got the name from. The notion that it is Germanic (with a second element lind ‘soft, tender, weak’) is not well founded. In Italian literature it is the name ascribed to the wife of Orlando, vassal of Charlemagne, but this use is not supported in Germanic sources. The name may be an Italian coinage from bella ‘beautiful’ (see Bella) + the feminine name suffix -inda (compare, for example, Lucinda).

 

Emily ♀ From a medieval form of the Latin name Aemilia, the feminine version of the old Roman family name Aemilius (probably from aemulus ‘rival’). It was not common in the Middle Ages, but was revived in the 19th century and is extremely popular throughout the English-speaking world today.

 

 

[Legseleven]

Well that made me chuckle, tours en l'air! That is a very clear example of why many people don't give a hoot what a name 'means' - because different 'name meaning' books/sites give very different meanings

 

As I said in my earlier post, horses for courses.