Pas de Quatre

I don't know about the years in between, but they did call in the reserve list for a further audition in 2009. That was the year my dd was auditioning for 6th forms and she knew a lot of the people in that year group through various associates, summer schools, etc. They would be those in current 3rd year, or 2nd year if they have retaken a year. If I remember correctly this recall of the reserve list was later in the summer term. Central held various auditions abroad and I am pretty sure they were after the final audition in UK. So I understood they had offered fewer places after the UK final, put quite a few people on the reserve list and kept some places open for the foreign auditions. Once they knew how many people from those auditions were offered/taking up places then they knew how many places they had left to offer candidates on the UK reserve list. Whether you like this or not must be very personal. Some people would like to show how they have improved in the meantime, but I did hear others saying it just prolonged the agony.

I will second Primrose in that I too know dancers who gained funded places in Yr 7 and appeared to have a bright future in ballet, who simply bloomed to early and were overtaken by others at 16 and/or in 6th form.

There have certainly been applications from UK for Stuttgart and Hamburg schools, but I don't know of any successes. A couple of years ago the Hamburg school actually held a preliminary audition in London - I am not sure whether this was advertised or just by invitation through schools and associates. A few dancers were invited to the finals in Hamburg, but I don't know if any were accepted. Does anyone else have more information? The standard of these schools is very high and the applicants come from all over the world. This is one of the reasons UK dancers now find it hard to to gain contracts. At one time the UK dancers who didn't get a job here went to Europe and found work in the companies there. Nowadays there are many good schools in Europe turning out excellent graduates so competition is fierce.

Most good ballet teachers know this - that you don't know how the physique will develop until after puberty. This is I think why many people are puzzled/frustrated by some of the almost arbitrary decisions that seem to be made by some of the vocational schools. Lots of children suffer changes to their abilities during growth spurts, but a bit of patience is all that is needed and in most cases it sorts itself out. Ballet training is a long term business and if the school has any confidence in its initial selection procedures, it should be able to work through any problems in puberty.

Delighted to hear it went to well Julie. Good luck to your dd tomuchtallent. Also mighty relieved to know I am not the only one who weeps buckets over dk through joy/pride. (We'll forget about the wailing and gnashing of teeth when things went wrong!)

I like that fact that the AD appointment was made first, so now anyone applying for Chief Exec knows they will be working with Tamara Rojo.

Great news!

OK Tulip, another exercise she can try is "Penguins". Stand in 1st position facing barre or holding the back of a chair. Extend one leg to the side to a few inches off the floor (think battement jeté height and speed) keep the foot flexed the whole time, and bring it back down to 1st position closing firmly into the floor, immediately transferring the weight onto it and doing the same movement with the other leg. It ends up a bit like Newton's cradle, but the closing foot should go firmly to the floor and not hit the other leg. Rhythm is "and a close, and a close". Posture and pelvis must be kept properly aligned - repeat a couple of dozen times and see if this hits the spot!

Thanks for that explanation dancerbabe82, few people seem to understand this effect of turn out. There is a simple exercises dancers can do with a partner, either in class or at home, to help feel/strengthen this area. It's best to be a bit warmed up first, but simple jogging or similar is enough, you don't need to have done a full barre. The dancer sits on the floor, straight back, with legs in a wide 2nd position, fully rotated, and the feet pointing towards the front corners of the room. Another person (not necessarily a dancer) stands in a wide second position between the seated dancer's legs. (It doesn't have to be very turned out.) The two people hold hands to help the dancer maintain a straight back. The dancer then pushes with his/her legs agains the lower legs of the standing person, trying to push their legs together. Once the dancer feels this, the exercise can be done alone using a large ball or pile of pillows to act as resistance.. I daresay you could even be creative with a pair of resistance bands!

Have a wonderful time - I am sure this last term will fly past!

Sorry I just took this from what you posted earlier - if he is on DaDa then he isn't doing a Dance degree. So of course he will be entitled to funding for a degree later, whether dance or academic.

You are right Rowan, the big danger for dancers who need to go on to Plan B is that they may have used up some or all of their funding. Students are only allowed 4 years total funding these days for any degree courses, so Blondie, if your son did go on to get a place at a Russell group university, would you be able to fund it?

Thanks for the information, I am sure a few years ago the numbers were higher. Perhaps the government put a cap on the number of funded places or perhaps the numbers were made up by non-EU foreign students. Bruce Sansom had a very high international profile, not least because he was a member of the jury for Prix de Lausanne. Three years ago when Royal Conservatoire of Scotland (then known as RSAMD) announced their new Modern Ballet degree, I rang them to get more information. They were the only establishment which has been totally open - they said they would be allowed to take 12 funded UK & EU students and there would be a further 8 unfunded places for students from the rest of the world - and no, UK & EU students could not pay themselves for an unfunded place. I don't know if the numbers have changed since then, but it will be interesting to see how their first batch of graduate this year fare in the jobs market. Perhaps you could bring us up to date Spooky, on the current procedures for auditioning for third year at Central.

As a ballet class should work both sides equally, it doesn't matter whether a dancer is right or left handed (or footed, or has that dominant eye) they will have half on their good side and half on their bad side. What I find fascinating is that when you watch male Principal dancers a far higher number than one would expect from the proportions in the general population seem to be left sided and do their turns, manèges etc to the left. It doesn't seem to be the same for female Principals.

How many in the first year?

Usually there are two classes of approx. 30 accepted for 1st year making a total of 60 (+ or -). Ballet Central has nearer half this number, it's plain maths. Yes there will be a certain amount of people drop out of their own volition, but the numbers still seem odd.

The stats seem to be generally known - but are plain to see for anyone who goes to Central as a visitor, associate or for a Day of Dance. The noticeboards give timetables for the different classes in the three years and the number of students in each year are plain. Names of dancers in Ballet Central are published on the website. So if you have your foundation degree after two years what happens then? I don't believe any other degree courses restrict the numbers in the third year in this way. Everyone can finish their course and gain their degree.

International is too general I'm afraid, you need to break it down into EU and non EU. Any student from a country which is in EU has the same rights as a UK student. I am not sure though who funds the student, whether it is through their own government or whether they can apply for funding here. I still find it troubling that only half those who start the course in 1st year are accepted onto 3rd year to finish their degree. If you are one of those who doesn't make it into 3rd year, it seems there are few options left. Does anyone know of places that will accept you into the 3rd year of a degree course elsewhere? University funding is for four years maximum, but as you have already used up two years, you can only start another degree course if you fund yourself for one year.

Although I come from a classical background, I love Matthew Bourne's work. In particular his swans are so musical I just want to join in. Some other modernised works e.g. Matt Eks' Giselle just leave me cold. Bourne is certainly one of the best choreographers in UK at present. He says he doesn't run a "company" as such, because there is not a continuity of employment. He auditions each year for specific productions, although naturally he often re-employs the same dancers. His only criterion for auditioning is "3 years vocational training" it doesn't matter whether it is ballet, contemporary, jazz or musical theatre.

Congratulations - a wonderful solution. Good luck for September!

Whenever I have taken pupils to RBS Audition Insight Days, RBS have always said that the photos are merely used to prompt their memory and to help recognise which candidate they are talking about during panel discussions after the audition. This is why they recommend that girls should wear the same leotard in the audition that they have worn for the photos. It is different for Summer school and some Super Sunday selections as these are purely on the photos.

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tickets/14310.aspx Did you know you can have free travel for children on buses and tube even if you live outside London? I have posted the link above. DD had one of these cards and we found it very useful.

I would also err on the side of caution - as 2dancersmum says, Yr 11 is really hard with mock GCSEs and auditions all at the same time. Luckily we had a very understanding Headmistress so DD could keep her head above water. As far as auditions themselves go - it is always a level playing field. No matter whether you have done courses with a particular school or have been one of their associates, as far as I have seen over the years, it does not give a student any advantage when they are selecting for vocational courses.

Actually, all you need to do is add the third word, NB Company, NB Academy, NB School, although the location in brackets would also help.

Sadly I have pupils who have come to the same conclusion for when they will audition in a couple of years. It doesn't matter that the other children in the family aren't dancers, they still have their needs. So they will only be looking at degree courses which allow for student loans. It doesn't help your situation kiwimum, but at least you know you aren't alone. Of course from next year there will be many changes in funding arrangements.