Pas de Quatre

To put Dancing 10's question round the other way, do dancers who didn't get finals ever get MA or SA? They used to get MA when there were more centres but I don't know if they do now.

Belljul and Ribbons make some excellent points. There are more institutions with 6th form/degree training than there are for Years 7 - 11 so naturally there are spaces for people who weren't previously in a Vocational school. Late bloomers then get a chance to shine. However, looking beyond that, there are not enough jobs for all the graduates of post GCSE training. It is vital to have a "Plan B". For the last few years RBS graduates have all found jobs, but that is the only school with 100% record. With cutbacks in funding across Europe, times are tough. So I must admit I am a little cynical too, there seem to be more and more 6th form options for training, but with no employment likely afterwards.

They all have merits - go to open days, or even just do the auditions. Then you will find which you feel most comfortable with. If you have more than one offer, then lucky you to have a choice.

There is a story that when Ninette de Valois founded the Royal Ballet she was looking forward to the day that the corps would be strong enough to wear short tutus for Swan Lake. Then when this happened she decided she preferred the long tutus anyway!

Perhaps we need to define "classic" as opposed to "classical". I would consider a "classic" anything that has stood the test of time and is still considered to be one of the best of its type. Cars and movies are often called "classics". To my mind "Classical" is referring to a certain technique and style, whether ballet, music, art, architecture etc.

This is a very interesting report, but needs to be read in context. I have copied over their definition of creativity below, which seems to apply to improvisation tasks - an integral part of much contemporary training. It is also used by many contemporary choreographers - when creating a piece, they ask the dancers to produce their own phrases of movement. This rarely happens in classical training, although I am a big fan of free improvisation to music in classical classes too. However in one ballet company where I was employed, at an audition for the following year there were over 100 candidates for 3 places. The numbers were gradually whittled down and the final dozen had to just a few minutes to prepare a piece of classical free improvisation. This was the decider! (It was held on stage and members of the ballet watched from the back of the auditorium.) "Creativity in dance includes ideas or inspirations which begin as cognitions and/or physical impulses. The ideas, when allowed to flow, develop in many different directions to reveal something new and may lead to a distinctive dance movement or piece. The creative process involved in shaping a final product includes discovering, playing with, channelling, selecting and discarding ideas and movement material. Typically, dancers blend their own ideas, personal voice and life experience with learned art form knowledge, any tuition given, and other dancers’ ideas and input." Like any skill, this sort of creativity improves with practice, so I can't agree that ballet dancers are less creative, just that they have usually had less time to develop this area. Going back to the original question, I agree that a strong foundation in ballet will help in other dance disciplines.

Don't know the Associate programme, but my dd and friends have been to the summer schools several times. The people at Ballet Cymru are wonderful, the standard of teaching is high but with a caring friendly atmosphere. I imagine the Associate programme will be excellent too.

http://www.frontsplitsfast.com/can-neural-tension-cause-shin-pain By coincidence this was sent to me from the Ballet Blog - perhaps it will help (I mean the question and answer - not the Front Splits Fast programme which I don't know anything about).

I would agree with most of the suggestions above. However what strikes me is how many of them don't need to be at ROH and may look even better on a smaller stage. Really wishful thinking now, but why can't RB have small touring groups like BRB? They could show some amazing triple bills and give some dancers opportunities to try more roles. With well known repertoire I am sure they would have full houses. Last time they tried touring with a small group it was unsuccessful because they did it with new untested choreography - the results were pretty awful and so the audience stayed away in droves!

Summer schools (and Easter Courses) are really a good idea, both for Vocational students and those not yet at a Vocational school but intending to apply later (or again). Meadowblythe has summed up the different reasons very well.

Sadly the opinions passed on in Rowan's post are very true. Just look at the candidates for Prix de Lausanne. ENBS have 3 girls entered, not one British. Only one male candidate is British, he's from Central School of Ballet.

Just to confirm what others have said above. The only places that you are obliged to apply at 16 are RBS, ENB, Elmhurst, Tring, Hammond & Legat. (Also possibly Dance School of Scotland, I don't have much information about them). Some with foundation degree/degree courses you can apply from 16 upwards (17, 18 19 etc), which include Central, Rambert, Royal Scottish Conservatoire in Glagow, Ballet West, Northern Ballet School plus Laines and Birds for a more Jazz orientated course. Other degree courses such as London Studio Centre, London Contemporary Dance School and Laban you must apply after 18, however these are entry by audition although the latter two also require 2 A-levels. This is not an exhaustive list, just a general guide, other people may be able to add more. Edited to add name

In our household my dd always asked me to open her letters and then text her what it said.

I am a great believer in non syllabus classes - no matter how good a syllabus it can't cover everything, and it is better preparation for auditions and courses. So Vocational students will have free work classes as well as their syllabus class. Other pupils who are not planning to take the Vocational exams also attend these free work classes. I don't teach Grades 6,7 & 8.

As a teacher I am always interested to hear how others do it - after which Grade exam did your dks start on the Vocational classes? Usually I move pupils across after Grade 5, but with the new syllabii I wonder if that should change.

My pupil who auditioned on 13th said she had been told 10 working days - that takes us up to next weekend.

Good luck to everyone auditioning - it's great hear of some success stories already. Let's hope there are more to come.

Totally agree - what would we have done without you. Happy Christmas and a splendid 2012! xxx Edited for typ

Sad to hear this is her last performance, but she has an interesting project in Morocco with Dar Danse. She and her family are building a Dance centre there - check out the Wells Ballet courses for photos and information. There is also an article in January's Dancing Times.