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Don’t criticise the choreographer

RobR
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RobR

RobR

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The Times has recently carried a news report about duelling and the fact that although it is generally believed to have died out (no pun intended) in the UK in the 19th Century, it continued in other countries, including France, well into the 20th century.

 

Today’s Times carries a letter describing how, “In 1958, the Marquis de Cuevas, a Chilean theatre producer, and Serge Lifar duelled after an argument over the proposed choreography of a ballet” .

 

(Lifar was a noted Russian dancer and choreographer and subsequently director of the Paris Opera Ballet.)

 

I know that this Forum occasionally expresses views on choreography and choreographers but whilst it might be safe to do that in the UK, a little circumspection might prudent elsewhere.

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Mora

Mora

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26 minutes ago, RobR said:

The Times has recently carried a news report about duelling and the fact that although it is generally believed to have died out (no pun intended) in the UK in the 19th Century, it continued in other countries, including France, well into the 20th century.

 

Indeed. In fact, in Argentina, duelling lasted until 1930.

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Emeralds

Emeralds

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Quirky choice of article for The Times! (Am sure there aren't any slow news days this month though!) At first I wasn't sure what your thread was about, @RobR ....(i could still be unsure!). Seems like the duel (fought over alterations to Lifar's ballet Suite en Blanc without his agreement) was a bit one-sided, with de Cuevas being 72 and Lifar being 52, and a curiously large number of photographers and reporters being aware it was taking place and gathered to be front row audience (!!!)- I  mean witnesses. ("All publicity is good publicity"?)  😉

 

Possibly the only duel ever to end in hugs and tears (from the participants, not the next of kin). The only injury was a nick on Lifar's forearm (antibiotics had been invented by then so he was pretty safe) and both participants lived on - de Cuevas died aged 76, Lifar aged 81. 

 

For more exciting (but harmless to the performers) duelling, Northern Ballet's Romeo and Juliet in Norwich next week beginning 14 May or Sadler's Wells from 28 May, Hamilton the musical at Victoria Palace Theatre (every day except Sundays; some ear plugs may be prudent), Onegin next season at ROH (both the ballet and the opera), and the Royal Ballet's Romeo and Juliet next season, are recommended. If members know of other ballets with duels being staged elsewhere do feel free to add to the list.  😀

Edited by Emeralds
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Anna C

Anna C

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58 minutes ago, Rob S said:

Is it time we had a Duelling section on the forum?😄


It might make moderating easier! 😂😂

 

This thread reminded me of what’s now become a tradition at Christmas - my very patient daughter trying to teach me Romeo and Tybalt’s sword-ography from MacMillan’s R&J, but with the cardboard inners from the wrapping paper rolls.  
My husband has got used to hearing “Up, up, down, up, down, down, up, down” in the style of Chris Saunders/Gary Avis, followed by fits of laughter at how uncoordinated I am. 😩

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Irmgard

Irmgard

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2 hours ago, RobR said:

The Times has recently carried a news report about duelling and the fact that although it is generally believed to have died out (no pun intended) in the UK in the 19th Century, it continued in other countries, including France, well into the 20th century.

 

Today’s Times carries a letter describing how, “In 1958, the Marquis de Cuevas, a Chilean theatre producer, and Serge Lifar duelled after an argument over the proposed choreography of a ballet” .

 

(Lifar was a noted Russian dancer and choreographer and subsequently director of the Paris Opera Ballet.)

 

I know that this Forum occasionally expresses views on choreography and choreographers but whilst it might be safe to do that in the UK, a little circumspection might prudent elsewhere.

Just a small correction.  Lifar was Ukrainian, born in Kyiv where he trained in the ballet school attached to the opera house when Bronislava Nijinska was ballet mistress.  The Serge Lifar International Ballet Competition has been held in Ukraine since 1994.

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RobR

RobR

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8 minutes ago, Irmgard said:

Just a small correction.  Lifar was Ukrainian, born in Kyiv where he trained in the ballet school attached to the opera house when Bronislava Nijinska was ballet mistress.  The Serge Lifar International Ballet Competition has been held in Ukraine since 1994.


Thank you. His Wikipedia entry describes him as Russian, born in Kiev when the Ukraine was part of the Russian Empire in 1905

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Irmgard

Irmgard

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1 hour ago, RobR said:


Thank you. His Wikipedia entry describes him as Russian, born in Kiev when the Ukraine was part of the Russian Empire in 1905

Sadly another example of Russia's many attempts to appropriate Ukrainian art and artists over a prolonged period of time. (And I'm sure you are aware that Ukraine was never willingly a part of the Russian empire.)

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RobR

RobR

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Oh no, I’ve offended everyone. 
 

I thought it was an amusing story. I checked Serge Lifar’s Wikipedia entry. 

 

He was clearly a Russian citizen. 
 

I quoted the letter, which described the Marquis de Cuevas in the terms I used. 

 

I checked the information contained in the letter. I didn’t realise that I would cause any offence or upset. 

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Tango Dancer

Tango Dancer

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Very funny @RobR.  Having had a fairly stressful day at work you cheered me up no end with the idea of dueling dancers.  😀

 

I suggest we don't share the idea of dueling over choreography with Akram Khan given the views expressed on the board (by me and others) on Creature.  I don't want him coming after the board with one of those poles the Wilis dancers used in Giselle and challenging us to a deathmatch.  

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SheilaC

SheilaC

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He was Diaghilev's last great male dancer and created Apollo. He did much to revive the Paris Opera but eventually, when the 2nd World War ended, was in disgrace for some years because of his presumed cooperation with the Germans.

British critics used to be a bit sniffy about his choreography but Suite en Blanc is a masterpiece.

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Irmgard

Irmgard

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31 minutes ago, RobR said:

Oh no, I’ve offended everyone. 
 

I thought it was an amusing story. I checked Serge Lifar’s Wikipedia entry. 

 

He was clearly a Russian citizen. 
 

I quoted the letter, which described the Marquis de Cuevas in the terms I used. 

 

I checked the information contained in the letter. I didn’t realise that I would cause any offence or upset. 

No offence taken re Lifar.  Just pointing out his correct nationality.

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FionaM

FionaM

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For those seeking to understand the geographical and geo-political history of Ukraine I founds this article by The Washing9n Post written back in 2015 with maps and dates to be helpful.

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2015/03/09/maps-how-ukraine-became-ukraine/

 

 In 1905 when Serge Lifar was born, what we now know as modern Ukraine did not yet exist as its own country, nor did the modern borders exist.  Kiev (as spelt at the time) was part of the Russian Empire, Lviv was part of the Austro-Hungarian empire.  However Ukrainian nationalism was on the rise.  
 

The Sergelifar.org website has this sentence after WW1:

There came a period of Ukrainisation: “Official documents had to be written in an artificial language that people did not understand”. 

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MAB

MAB

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Lifar is still regarded by older Parisians as a great choreographer.  I very much enjoyed his Phaedra when it was revived on a double bill with Ratmansky's Psyche.  Apart from some rather absurd posturing for Hippolytus, the choreography for the the female characters and for the pas de deux was beautiful.

 

Lifar was a man out of his time in many ways.  He would be very much at home in this present world of selfies and self publicity.  Ivor Guest, in his history of the Paris Opera does justice to his reforming spirit within the Opera.  He was actually a giant in the world of ballet, but a rather silly person at times too.  It's possible to be both.

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