Prisca Zeisel leaves Bavarian State Ballet

[Angela]

14 hours ago, Sabine0308 said:

What about an honest "we strongly disagree with her decision to perform in Sevastopol but thank her for her commitment to Bayerisches Staatsballett for xx years". Nobody is hurt this way.

 

According to the press release, Prisca Zeisel has left the company, they did not throw her out. If they wanted to terminate her contract, they could have done it right after the Crimea galas, because she broke her contract. But there were was a dialogue and there were negotiations: "After several exchanges with the management of both the Bayerisches Staatsballett and the Bayerische Staatsoper, Prisca Zeisel asked for the termination of her contract at the beginning of the season. The management of the house has complied with this request."  (link) There may have been conditions by the company, maybe she could have apologized and they would have accepted and let her dance Paquita, but she chose otherwise. The wording may have been chosen to protect Zeisel's reputation and help her find a new job.

 

[Sabine0308]

2 hours ago, Angela said:

 

According to the press release, Prisca Zeisel has left the company, they did not throw her out. If they wanted to terminate her contract, they could have done it right after the Crimea galas, because she broke her contract. But there were was a dialogue and there were negotiations: "After several exchanges with the management of both the Bayerisches Staatsballett and the Bayerische Staatsoper, Prisca Zeisel asked for the termination of her contract at the beginning of the season. The management of the house has complied with this request."  (link) There may have been conditions by the company, maybe she could have apologized and they would have accepted and let her dance Paquita, but she chose otherwise. The wording may have been chosen to protect Zeisel's reputation and help her find a new job.

We do not know the details, but I stick to my opininion that a word of "thank you" would have been neccessary and decent. She made a huge mistake, but this does not diminish her artistic merits and joy she brought to the audience. The rift must be big,  probably because of her silence about the planned performance.

Edited September 14, 2023 by Sabine0308

[Guest oncnp]

39 minutes ago, Sabine0308 said:

We do not know the details, but I stick to my opininion that a word of "thank you" would have been neccessary and decent. She made a huge mistake, but this does not diminish her artistic merits and joy she brought to the audience. The rift must be big,  probably because of her silence about the planned performance.

Agree about the word of thanks.  It was the "right" thing to do IMO

 

And perhaps it wasn't a mistake? She, like Polunin, may support Putin and the war (her right, everyone's entitled, etc) and chose this as a way of expressing it.  She was apparently willing to lose her job over it.   

Edited September 14, 2023 by oncnp

[zxDaveM]

16 hours ago, FionaE said:

well then you’ll be delighted to know that I travelled to Russia this summer … to see ballet.  

 

I'm sure putin will be delighted with your tourist roubles to contribute to the war effort

[BeauxArts]

16 hours ago, FionaE said:

 

 

The dance world is open to collaboration and balletomanes here are behind the curve.   I refer you back to Sabine’s comment about the Minister of Culture in Berlin.  He’s with the new openness for arts.

 

I think the use of the word "collaboration" in this context requires considerable caution. And as for your proposition that balletomanes here are  behind the curve if they don't welcome Western dancers sharing the stage with artists still working for Russian companies, well possibly those balletomanes take a principled position on such naive gestures.

[Sabine0308]

4 hours ago, oncnp said:

Agree about the word of thanks.  It was the "right" thing to do IMO

 

And perhaps it wasn't a mistake? She, like Polunin, may support Putin and the war (her right, everyone's entitled, etc) and chose this as a way of expressing it.  She was apparently willing to lose her job over it.   

With "mistake" I actually meant that she did not check with the Munich management before the event. It's cheating and an employer hardly accepts such behaviour. I don't think she was so naive to think they would not find out, or that she went there "in private", not representing BSB but who knows and of course she did represent her company. A discussion with mgmt before her trip to Sevastopol MAY have changed her mind. Also, I don't know if mgmt ever told the dancers that they are not allowed to perform in Russia. Maybe they relied too much on good judgment/common sense of each dancer.

So many MAYBE...and I cannot imagine that she supports the war. That's a very wild and harsh speculation.

Edited September 14, 2023 by Sabine0308

[FionaM]

This is hearsay … but there are many highly speculative comments above  which are derogatory to Prisca’s character.   These should probably also be removed if this hearsay is.  

 

I’ve since heard that Prisca did talk to her AD about it in advance, that she was told she was free to do as she chooses in her vacation.  
 

So it sounds to me like she didn’t breach her contract.  If she had, the press release would have said so. 

[FionaM]

3 hours ago, zxDaveM said:

 

I'm sure putin will be delighted with your tourist roubles to contribute to the war effort

 

I’m sure my few hundred pounds spent there turn to near zero after the staff have been paid.  And certainly my spend counts for nothing compared to the ongoing $3billion of annual trade between UK and Russia post the 2022 invasion.  (There is a long list of exemptions from sanctions.).  Plus the ongoing trade between USA/NATO and Russia. 

Edited September 14, 2023 by FionaE
Context

[Lizbie1]

Perhaps the mods can move this discussion to its own thread? I fear this one is being significantly derailed!

[Angela]

30 minutes ago, FionaE said:

This is hearsay … but there are many highly speculative comments above  which are derogatory to Prisca’s character.   These should probably also be removed if this hearsay is.  

 

I’ve since heard that Prisca did talk to her AD about it in advance, that she was told she was free to do as she chooses in her vacation.  

 

Fiona, it's a bit difficult to demand that hearsay should be removed when your next sentence begins with "I've since heard".

 

[Guest oncnp]

10 minutes ago, Angela said:

 

Fiona, it's a bit difficult to demand that hearsay should be removed when your next sentence begins with "I've since heard".

 

Which most definitely is hearsay.....

[FionaM]

@Angela @oncnp

Yes that was my point … I was declaring mine as hearsay.  And that the hearsay was less hurtful than the speculations by others.  
 

I can see I wasn’t clear.   Apologies.  

Edited September 14, 2023 by FionaE

[Guest oncnp]

51 minutes ago, FionaE said:

@Angela @oncnp

Yes that was my point … I was declaring mine as hearsay.  And that the hearsay was less hurtful than the speculations by others.  
 

I can see I wasn’t clear.   Apologies.  

You worship Polunin who supports Putin  so how can the speculation that the dancer in question may as well be hurtfull? 

[Lizbie1]

1 hour ago, FionaE said:

@Angela @oncnp

Yes that was my point … I was declaring mine as hearsay.  And that the hearsay was less hurtful than the speculations by others.  
 

I can see I wasn’t clear.   Apologies.  

 

So in other words we can safely ignore the alternative version of events until confirmed by a reputable source?

 

At the moment it's hearsay (a Polunin fan site?) vs the Süddeutsche Zeitung, so forgive me if I go with the latter for now.

[FionaM]

19 minutes ago, Lizbie1 said:

 

So in other words we can safely ignore the alternative version of events until confirmed by a reputable source?

 

At the moment it's hearsay (a Polunin fan site?) vs the Süddeutsche Zeitung, so forgive me if I go with the latter for now.

No, my source is not a Polunin fan group.  If you can access the full article you will read that SZ actually says that its information comes from a Polunin fan group on facebook !!!
 

I don’t know which one.  There are at least 5 groups on Facebook, not counting his own social media.  
 

It’s open knowledge that there were two galas in Tauric Chersonesos in Sevastopol in July 2023 and Prisca was advertised to dance in them.  She did perform one of the shows.  The other was cancelled due to torrential rain.  

 

My source is somebody connected with an employee in the Bavarian State Ballet.  I can’t say anymore, as it is all hearsay, so there is no point in continuing.  

[FionaM]

2 hours ago, oncnp said:

You worship Polunin who supports Putin  so how can the speculation that the dancer in question may as well be hurtfull? 

Whether or not I worship Polunin is irrelevant to Prisca’s predicament.  It also does not follow that I support Polunin’s support of Putin, nor does it follow that I support Putin in my own right. 
 

It’s true that I know something about these performances because I follow Sergei.  I follow other dancers, which does not mean I support their government leaders either.

 

I am disappointed in the speculation above.  Prisca does not deserve this witch hunt.  No dancer does.  They have short careers .. in my opinion they must go where their artistic passions are best fulfilled.    She is highly talented, having been a principal since her mid 20s. 

 

 

Edited September 14, 2023 by FionaE

[MAB]

I don't see any kind of 'witch hunt'  I only see posters genuinely saddened that a practitioner of the art they love has seen fit to dance for a regime of war criminals.

[Sabine0308]

Wow, are all Russians war criminals?? Because I don't know who was in the audience. If so, throw out all Russian dancers from Western companies who did not speak out against the war in public (or in this forum🙄).

Btw I wish she had been noticed and mentioned here BEFORE  much more for her artistry.

 

And for your info:
This factsheet provides the latest statistics on trade and investment between the UK and Russia:

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1183985/russia-trade-and-investment-factsheet-2023-09-14.pdf

Edited September 15, 2023 by Sabine0308

[Angela]

1 hour ago, Sabine0308 said:

Btw I wish she had been noticed and mentioned here BEFORE  much more for her artistry.

 

I'm sure that would have happened if she was on the superstar level like, let's say Cojocaru, Osipova, Nunez, Semionova. She is not. Whenever I was in Munich, ballerinas like Madison Young, Maria Baranova or Lauretta Summerscales caught my eye, not so much Zeisel, to be honest.

 

10 hours ago, FionaE said:

Prisca does not deserve this witch hunt.  

 

She acted against her contract, that is not a witch hunt. I'm sure there were offers from the company management to enable her to stay. I fear it will be hard for her to find a job that quickly, given how tall she is.

 

1 hour ago, Sabine0308 said:

Wow, are all Russians war criminals??

 

Sabine, I'm sure we are all sorry for the Russian dancers, and I miss my annual Mariinsky visits at Baden-Baden soo much. Some of them cheer for the war, but most of them want to pursue their short dance careers as successful and happy as possible - of course they stay where they are, they all have parents or children, they have homes and an employment. I'm sure they miss the works by Balanchine, Neumeier, Cranko, Maillot, Clug, Spuck, Naharin, Eyal, whoever, because they will be stuck with the old classics in the next years, given the lack of variety in Russian choreographers. I talked to a European choreographer who wanted to withdraw the rights for his piece immediately and then realized that it wasn't possible. In the end he said: maybe it's a good thing that they can dance these works for another year or two. Russia had opened up since Glasnost, and very much the ballet world; look at someone like Ratmansky, who was a part of both worlds. 

Putin and his propaganda machine now consider every Western choreographer or dancer who still works in Russia as a supporter of the regime; check the Russian articles about the Prix Benois, for example. That's why so many Western dancers or a director like Laurent Hilaire left so quickly after the war started. It is very hard for artists to maneuver through this political situation, I can see that. We all thought the Cold War was over, and here we go again.

[MAB]

2 hours ago, Sabine0308 said:

Wow, are all Russians war criminals??

 

No, but they would appear to condone the war crimes the UN has rightly accused their regime of.  

 

 

[Bruce Wall]

FAO MODERATORS - Wonder if the commentaries dealing specifically with the Prisca Zeisel affair (short of the initial news item) might be worthy of a separate strand since it now seems to have taken on a life for itself.  I so value this specific BcoF strand as it gives valuable and immediate news about work/events in Germany, Austria and Switzerland.  I fear the over abundance of current commentaries on just one specific issue might muddy this oh, so valuable and certainly much valued service.  

[FionaM]

1 hour ago, Angela said:

She acted against her contract, that is not a witch hunt. I'm sure there were offers from the company management to enable her to stay. I fear it will be hard for her to find a job that quickly, given how tall she is.

We do not KNOW that she breached her contract.  I heard (yes, hearsay) that she did speak to her AD in advance and he did say that she was free to do as she wishes whether or not he agreed. 

 

Most contracts do not specify that a dancer is obliged to have permission from their AD for whatever they do in their time off and holidays.  And it’s quite right that contracts should not.  It’s high time the artists had more say over their short dancing careers than being dictated by company management.  Opera singers do.  Theatre actors do.  Musicians do.  I really hope this incident does NOT revert to contracts dictating what employees do in their time off.  (I wouldn’t agree to it in my work.  My weekends and holidays are mine. I’d hope you’d all agree with this principle.)

 

Regarding being tall, I imagine this might be one of the reasons for Jacob Feyferlik joining the company from Dutch National.  I hear he is an excellent partner from the posts made by his fellow principals there.  She had been partnered frequently by Jinhao Zhang (ex-ENB) in Munich. No problems with their relative heights, see photos here https://www.instagram.com/p/CtENpZbIQV5/?igshid=MWZjMTM2ODFkZg==
 

She’s performed many super roles as seen in the photos of the leaving statement by the company …. Nikiya, Gamzatti, Myrtha, Diamonds, Aegina, Giselle, Odette/Odile, lead roles in Wayne McGregor and Neumeier.  
 

She was originally cast in the opening night of the season in Paquita on stage next week.  This fact in itself is relevant, as the casting was only put up last week, so something has happened at the theatre in the last week or so to change their mind about her participation.  

[Sabine0308]

2 hours ago, Angela said:

 

I'm sure that would have happened if she was on the superstar level like, let's say Cojocaru, Osipova, Nunez, Semionova. She is not. Whenever I was in Munich, ballerinas like Madison Young, Maria Baranova or Lauretta Summerscales caught my eye, not so much Zeisel, to be honest.

But we don't discuss only Superstars here, right? I agree that there are more impressive ballerinas in Munich, those you mentioned and some others, but I am sad that comments on Prisca are only related to the termination of her contract. She doesn’t deserved that.

[Sabine0308]

2 hours ago, Angela said:

... It is very hard for artists to maneuver through this political situation, I can see that. We all thought the Cold War was over, and here we go again.

Exactly. And since artists are prominent in the public, they are much more in the focus of attacks as companies still doing business, that's why I posted the link above. There is no Black and white in this world. That's all I wish to consider.

[FionaM]

If anyone wishes to see video clips and read reviews of the gala you can find plenty in ‘Sergei Polunin Universe’.

 

Here’s one from YouTube.  
 

Beware it’s a Russian news channel (or is that Ukrainian as it’s in Sevastopol?) so you may be supporting the war by watching.  Oh wait … YouTube can’t pay advertisement fees across the financial sanction divide, so it’s ok.  Or do they pay another way?  Who knows 🤷🏼‍♀️, I certainly don’t. As you can tell, my cynicism of the difference between what we are told via our media (whichever side) and what is actually happening amongst corporations and governments is high.  Meanwhile hundreds of thousands of Ukrainians and Russian die.  War is mindless destruction.  You’d think the world leaders would focus on issues that actually matter. 
 

Let’s just enjoy the ballet.  
 

In order of appearance:

- Ksenia Ryzkova & Jonah Cook (STANMUS)

- Olga Marchenkova & Klim Efimov (Bolshoi)

- Semyon Chudin & Eugenia Obratsova (Bolshoi)

- Prisca Zeisel & Dmitry Sobolevsky (now both independent)

- Marchenkova & Efimov 

- Obratsova & Chudin

- Vladimir Shklyarov & Maria Shirinkina (Mariinsky)

- Sergei Polunin (independent) 

No idea why they included the one moment where he trips on a crease in the flooring! 

 

 

 

[MAB]

2 hours ago, FionaE said:

Most contracts do not specify that a dancer is obliged to have permission from their AD for whatever they do in their time off and holidays.

I imagine dancers are required to be available in their spare time to cover for the indisposition of colleagues,  There are differences between standard contracts and those negotiated by the stars of this world.  It is usual to have under the name of a guest/gala artist 'appears by kind permission of....'

 

2 hours ago, FionaE said:

It’s high time the artists had more say over their short dancing careers than being dictated by company management.  Opera singers do.

They are mainly freelancers or on short contracts.   

[Lizbie1]

2 hours ago, FionaE said:

Most contracts do not specify that a dancer is obliged to have permission from their AD for whatever they do in their time off and holidays.  And it’s quite right that contracts should not.  It’s high time the artists had more say over their short dancing careers than being dictated by company management.  Opera singers do.  Theatre actors do.  Musicians do.  I really hope this incident does NOT revert to contracts dictating what employees do in their time off.  (I wouldn’t agree to it in my work.  My weekends and holidays are mine. I’d hope you’d all agree with this principle.)

 

I believe exclusivity clauses are quite common in employment contracts? My last (bog standard) contract stated that I had to get permission before taking on any outside work and my current contract says I need permission before I do any work for a competitor or where there is a potential conflict of interest. I have never thought this is unreasonable. I believe such clauses are banned for zero hours contracts and for low paid work, which also makes sense.

 

Most singers, actors and musicians are freelance (and have no job security), so of course exclusivity clauses wouldn't come into it. Are you suggesting that freelance contracts should become the standard for dancers too? I doubt that many of them would concur!

 

I know I've said this before: FionaE, you're obviously intelligent, you're not malign, and you offer a lot to this forum, but I can only assume that your admiration for Polunin leads you to some very motivated reasoning.

[FionaM]

@Lizbie1

 

I take your last paragraph to mean you wish to belittle my contribution here by association and because I happen to follow closely what Sergei Polunin does.  
 

I’ve said before that I DON’T agree with all his opinions and actions.  What he is doing in dance IS interesting.  
 

Your last paragraph is a personal attack and I’d hope the moderators will remove your comment and ask you to desist in future.

[Sabine0308]

According to the Mikhailovsky Instagram Account, Prisca Zeisel will make her debut as Gamzatti there on Sep 27.

https://instagram.com/mikhailovskytheatre?igshid=NzZhOTFlYzFmZQ==

[Angela]

Wow. I know this should not shock me and she is free to choose whereever she wants to dance, but... wow.

[FionaM]

Well it is not that different to other non-Russian dancers choosing to remain in Russia, and many hundreds did (as discussed elsewhere in this forum), including MANY born and/or trained in Ukraine.  
 

it is possible to choose to live your life for dance and personal career  opportunities rather than political ones.
 

It is also possible to have a political point of view that supports the Russian narrative rather than the NATO one.  
 

I cannot say what Prisca’s views are, but there is no ‘freedom’ in NATO if she is somehow not allowed or disrespected for having a different view of the world to the NATO one.  

[Lindsay]

39 minutes ago, FionaE said:

Well it is not that different to other non-Russian dancers choosing to remain in Russia, and many hundreds did (as discussed elsewhere in this forum), including MANY born and/or trained in Ukraine.  
 

it is possible to choose to live your life for dance and personal career  opportunities rather than political ones.
 

It is also possible to have a political point of view that supports the Russian narrative rather than the NATO one.  
 

I cannot say what Prisca’s views are, but there is no ‘freedom’ in NATO if she is somehow not allowed or disrespected for having a different view of the world to the NATO one.  

I do not think it is at all incompatible with “freedom” to criticise somebody who supports an aggressive state which has repeatedly broken international law and murders its opponents at home and abroad.  To say otherwise is moral relativism of the worse kind (as well as a very Trumpian ‘both sides’ argument)

 

Dance careers in major Russian companies such as the Mikhailovsky companies are currently unavoidably tied in to the state. Look at the some of the recent and explicit propaganda with soldiers alongside ballerinas - Katja Khaniukova has posted examples on her instagram….

[Lizbie1]

1 hour ago, FionaE said:

It is also possible to have a political point of view that supports the Russian narrative rather than the NATO one.  

 

Possible but reprehensible.

 

Edited to add: the conflation of mainstream Ukrainian opinion with "NATO" is careless at best. And it's news to me that NATO has 141 members.

Edited September 22, 2023 by Lizbie1