Opera Ignoramus

[Dawnstar]

16 minutes ago, Mary said:

Also maybe try to catch English Touring Opera who are really good and starting a new tour about now I think.

 

Dawnstar -  I remember the old Rosenkavalier too, that was so outstandingly  beautiful.  I once treated myself to a balcony ticket and so very glad I did.  Nowadays it's the slips.

 

Have you read the reviews for ETO's new productions? Manon Lescaut sounds pretty terrible & The Rake's Progress not that great either so I don't think I'd recommend either to someone just starting to explore opera, and especially not someone who has just been watching the lovely RB Manon production. Unfortunately with their new AD ETO's production style seems to be changing significantly, and in a direction that I personally do not want to see. I've been seeing ETO since 2005 but not this season.

 

I saw it from the amphitheatre in 2004 then from behind a pillar in the stalls circle in 2009, which was the last run before it got scrapped. I think it's such a pity they got rid of it, and ditto the Schelsinger Contes d'Hoffmann, which lasted until 2016.

[Emeralds]

On 11/03/2024 at 21:29, JennyTaylor said:

I'm also an opera ignoramus but have been trying to education myself by attending Friends' rehearsals.  I only go to ones where the composer/ music will give me a chance of enjoying myself. 

So far I have been to: 

Tosca - loved it, felt I had seen something special. 

Aida  - loved the music but hated the North Korean production and the costumes. Aida looked like a factory worked or a cleaner. 

La Boheme - really disappointing.  Damp squib is an understatement. I couldn't relate to any of the characterisations and the scenery was super clunky. 

Madame Butterfly (today) - jury still out, but probably 2nd ranked below Tosca. 

 

So, that's 4 really famous operas and I'm not doing too well, which is actually quite disappointing as I would really like to gain enjoyment from this art form. 

 

I'm wondering why this could be in comparison to ballet where there is no verbal interaction. 

 

1) I'm not familiar with the music so probably need to hear it several times more

2) There's very little action.  Compared, for example with a Manon ballet, when there's so much going on it's hard to know where to look, I find opera very static. 

3) Apart from Aida, the casts are small and there's very little group singing.  I loved the power of the chorus singing in Aida, so long as I closed my eyes and didn't think about their costumes. I think I expected more group singing in general.  Is this cost cutting??  

4) The scenery is very traditional and flat.  It was quite pretty today for Butterfly but in general I'd be looking for better effects.  In La Boheme I could see the snow machine in the roof and also the backs of the scenery had directional markings on them. Irritating. 

5) I don't seem to be moved by two people singing to each other.  Wish I was. The lady next to me was in tears at the end of Butterfly today and told me it always made her feel that way.  I didn't feel moved at all, rather very annoyed with the behaviour of Pinkerton.         

6) There is far more action in a ballet - there has to be, so perhaps my expectations are unreal.     

 

I will persevere further.  Perhaps I should just go back to Gilbert and Sullivan, which I love.  

Hi @JennyTaylor, I think you might have been unlucky in that most of the traditional productions of the classics at Royal Opera have been replaced with "modern" and often soulless productions that try to be "edgy" but often end up looking grey, unattractive and pretentious- the issues with using modern scenery in La Boheme (where you can see the markings, the machines, and they sometimes stop working in the middle of a performance!) and Rodolfo, Mimi and his friends all with similar ugly and grey costumes, is the worst example of this. (The old production by John Copley looked so much nicer and more believable.)

 

I only go to Boheme now if a favourite singer is performing in it. Aida- same problem and some bits of the concept in the new production  don't work. I think lack of (obvious) group singing is down to the production concept. 

 

Yes, despite Pinkerton being sung by a star tenor (or someone on their way to becoming a star) and the role being a lead role alongside Cio-Cio-san, Pinkerton is not actually a hero but a baddie or anti hero,  rather like Crown Prince Rudolf is not actually a good guy or hero. So you're right to dislike Pinkerton! Another lead role or big role for a tenor that is actually a baddie is the Duke of Mantua in Rigoletto (he gets the famous La Donna e mobile aria). 

 

If you're used to the flow and action of ballets like Manon I would recommend Andrea Chenier - at least the company still has a traditional production which is consistent with the libretto and moves the action along nicely (it's on during 30 May - 11 June this season). There aren't any familiar catchy melodies in it but it does sound beautiful and there are some impressive chorus scenes. I like Tosca too, and thankfully ROH has a production by Jonathan Kent which is fairly traditional (and is very popular).

 

Before you give up, if you still have Friends membership, I recommend trying the general rehearsal for Baroque operas eg Handel ones. This category/composer seems to be the one area that RO productions have been more consistently  successful of late, eg Alcina, Agrippina etc. 

[Mary]

10 minutes ago, Dawnstar said:

Have you read the reviews for ETO's new productions? Manon Lescaut sounds pretty terrible & The Rake's Progress not that great either so I don't think I'd recommend either to someone just starting to explore opera, and especially not someone who has just been watching the lovely RB Manon production. Unfortunately with their new AD ETO's production style seems to be changing significantly, and in a direction that I personally do not want to see. I've been seeing ETO since 2005 but not this season.

Oh no!

[Mary]

Just read the Arts Desk review of ETO- what a shame. I have been going to them for 20 years and never seen a duff one before.  They were such a great company for bringing proper opera on a small scale to local theatres.

What brings this change on I wonder?  Are they trying to be - oh, 'relevant' or something?

 

I withdraw my over-hasty recommendation JennyTaylor!

 

[Dawnstar]

1 hour ago, Emeralds said:

Hi @JennyTaylor, I think you might have been unlucky in that most of the traditional productions of the classics at Royal Opera have been replaced with "modern" and often soulless productions that try to be "edgy" but often end up looking grey, unattractive and pretentious

 

Unfortunately it feels as though it's a pretty bad time for anyone trying to get into opera at the moment, at least if they're someone who would like to see attractive productions. I agree with your recommentation of Chenier, not least because it's the only attractive & traditional opera production remaining in this season that @JennyTaylor hasn't already tried. (At least, I suppose the new Carmen could be but I'd be amazed if it was!)

 

1 hour ago, Mary said:

Just read the Arts Desk review of ETO- what a shame. I have been going to them for 20 years and never seen a duff one before.  They were such a great company for bringing proper opera on a small scale to local theatres.

What brings this change on I wonder?  Are they trying to be - oh, 'relevant' or something?

 

I withdraw my over-hasty recommendation JennyTaylor!

 

I've seen a few duff ones but not many & those tended to be just rather grey & dull. Whereas this season they seem to be bizarre. I had tickets for last autumn's tour but after reading the reviews I didn't go. (A modern-dress Cenerentola set in a museum with the characters in glass cases & Cinderella not ending up with the Prince? No thank you.) So this time I decided not to book until I read the reviews - and then I didn't book! I can only think it's the choice of the new AD, though I guess the endless appeasement of the Arts Council by "relevance" & suchlike could be involved.

[JohnS]

Apologies - I’m very late to the recent posts. I wonder if some more ambitious productions might be worth considering? I’d been unimpressed with recent Toscas, Bohemes, Turandots etc having been spoiled by so many great performances in the 1970s to 2000s before moving to Cumbria. But my faith in opera was restored when I saw Lucia di Lammermoor and then Jenufa, engaging;/challenging productions and wonderfully sang. Lucia is coming up in April and I’ll be going to the General Rehearsal (a handful of £9 tickets) and a performance (plenty of tickets, all prices). There’s not much Lucia on the Stream but there may be an Insight coming up - on 11 April Katie Mitchell and Oliver Mears are discussing the director’s role in taking a production from the rehearsal room to the stage which may include some discussion of Lucia but I don’t know if it will be relayed/on the Stream. Jenufa is on the Stream - it’s a production I find gripping where I am genuinely concerned as to what happens to all the characters. I enjoyed the recent Flying Dutchman General Rehearsal and a 2015 performance will shortly be on the Stream. There are a couple of performances left this run - 2 hours 30 minutes and no intervals but for me the time simply flew by. 

 

 

[Dawnstar]

Query for @JohnS or anyone else who's seen Fliegende Hollander, is the production really "immersive"? None of the reviews I've read have indicated that it is so I'm puzzled by this ROH tweet.

 

 

[JohnS]

I found Dutchman pretty engaging, for the main characters and the fabulous chorus. I’d have liked to see a performance as well as the General Rehearsal but dates didn’t work so I’ll catch the 2015 performance when it’s on the Stream. I wonder if ‘immersive’ is also a reference to the water at the front of the stage which is used very effectively for a model ship and the sailors’ party?

[Dawnstar]

9 minutes ago, JohnS said:

I wonder if ‘immersive’ is also a reference to the water at the front of the stage which is used very effectively for a model ship and the sailors’ party?

 

I thought "immersive" in a theatre production sense usually referred to including the audience in the production in some way, not to the production including water! It rather feels like the ROH may be using the word because it's currently fashionable rather than because it accurately describes the production style.

[Emeralds]

1 hour ago, Dawnstar said:

 

I thought "immersive" in a theatre production sense usually referred to including the audience in the production in some way, not to the production including water! It rather feels like the ROH may be using the word because it's currently fashionable rather than because it accurately describes the production style.

Immersive usually means you're part of the show, like Robert Binet's Dark With Excessive Bright recently. They shouldn't be attempting a pun if they aren't clear that it's an attempt at wit- as it just looks like false advertising or worse still, unreliable information. 2hours 20 minutes without an interval is a long time to sit there waiting for something that doesn't happen! It's possible that the person posting it took it out of context from a review in The Independent as that is quoted on the website, but that's even more silly. That said, Bryn Terfel in the title role should be well worth seeing. 

 

Just a word of warning if @JennyTaylor is considering seeing the ROH production of Lucia di Lammermoor- have a look at Sim's thread on this forum. It's quite a radical production concept and might either be a refreshing change or far worse than enduring the worst excesses of Aida and Boheme put together. 

 

One final recommendation about RO productions.....everyone curious about opera and has Friends membership should see their production of Turandot live at least once. It's like The Nutcracker by Peter Wright or Manon by Kenneth MacMillan in that it is simply an iconic production which is just lovely to watch (even if the title character is - like Pinkerton - rather dubious in character! Is she a strong leader or a murderous temptress? After all, the suitors are not forced or kidnapped- they have been told of the risks they face.) Yes, if you're not sick of hearing Nessun Dorma from football tournaments it really is worth seeing at least once (Liu's arias are well worth catching and the music interludes are great). 

Edited March 13 by Emeralds

[JohnS]

I’m pretty sure the water in Dutchman is contained on stage - I certainly hope so for the orchestra as well as those nearest the stage. Definitely no audience participation, special glasses, moving chairs so ‘immersive’ may be overstated. But the production is extraordinarily absorbing, ‘immersive’ in a more traditional sense. I find that’s also very much the case with Lucia, Jenufa and the new Rheingold so I’m very much looking forward to further Ring instalments. 
 

I wouldn’t be too critical of ROH’s marketing tweets, certainly not compared to ENO where apparently their marketing people have warned Jenufa and Duke Bluebeard’s Castle may be too difficult for new opera goers so suggest Magic Flute and Barber of Seville instead. And I now read ENO have said that Johann Strauss was Richard Strauss’s father and Benjamin Britten composed the music for Zeffirelli’s Romeo and Juliet film. I  thought all this must be a spoof and from a quick look I haven’t managed to find references on the ENO’s website/social media but the ENO pages quoted on various social media posts look genuine.

[Emeralds]

Oh dear, I saw that news item about the Jenufa/Magic Flute/Barber gaffe @JohnS.... I think ENO removed it later as I couldn't find it on the website again. And now more gaffes about Richard Strauss, Britten (poor Nino Rota- only one of the most famous film scores in the world!) etc. It seems that someone has hastily changed the name of Strauss senior to Franz (correct) but still left his occupation laughably fictitious. ENO seems to be cursed......

[Lizbie1]

ChatGPT is my guess.

[Scheherezade]

The various posters on Slipped Disc are pretty much in agreement that ChatGPT wouldn’t have made such obvious gaffes. There are some rather amusing responses. 

[Scheherezade]

And on the topic of gaffes, I received an email from the ROH apologising for an error in the Coming Up section of the recent Friends newsletter advertising a signing by Angela Gheorghiu in the Linbury foyer on 13 March. The signing took place on 13 February.

[JohnS]

I’d seen the apology @Scheherezade and thought that’s very unfortunate. Mistakes do happen and it’s good when they’re corrected so hopefully no one turned up yesterday.
It was the run of ENO clangers that rather worried me and with the awful news on redundancy letters, compounded by being distributed part way through a performance, resignations etc, it’s been a very grim time at ENO.

[Lizbie1]

9 minutes ago, JohnS said:

I’d seen the apology @Scheherezade and thought that’s very unfortunate. Mistakes do happen and it’s good when they’re corrected so hopefully no one turned up yesterday.
It was the run of ENO clangers that rather worried me and with the awful news on redundancy letters, compounded by being distributed part way through a performance, resignations etc, it’s been a very grim time at ENO.

 

I was at Magic Flute on Saturday: the hydraulics had failed on the platform which the production uses heavily. The singers managed well and I didn't really mind.

 

What did strike me however was that the on-stage announcement was made by someone who I believe isn't a member of the senior management team. Where were they?

[Geoff]

On 13/03/2024 at 16:47, Dawnstar said:

 

Have you read the reviews for ETO's new productions? Manon Lescaut sounds pretty terrible & The Rake's Progress not that great either so I don't think I'd recommend either to someone just starting to explore opera, and especially not someone who has just been watching the lovely RB Manon production. Unfortunately with their new AD ETO's production style seems to be changing significantly, and in a direction that I personally do not want to see. I've been seeing ETO since 2005 but not this season.

+1

[Geoff]

On 13/03/2024 at 22:18, Emeralds said:

Just a word of warning if @JennyTaylor is considering seeing the ROH production of Lucia di Lammermoor- have a look at Sim's thread on this forum. It's quite a radical production concept and might either be a refreshing change or far worse than enduring the worst excesses of Aida and Boheme put together.

Lucia update. That thread is probably out of date now. The production has since been revived more than once, and with each one nonsense has been trimmed and more thought expended on what matters. I would now say it is a fine looking, basically traditional production with marvellous sets and costumes. I am much looking forward to going again. 

[Emeralds]

17 minutes ago, Geoff said:

Lucia update. That thread is probably out of date now. The production has since been revived more than once, and with each one nonsense has been trimmed and more thought expended on what matters. I would now say it is a fine looking, basically traditional production with marvellous sets and costumes. I am much looking forward to going again. 

That's good that the extreme bits have now been trimmed, thank you Geoff.  Lucia di Lammermoor is scheduled for mid April  to mid May - some lovely (and difficult) solo passages for the soprano in the title role. (I say passages rather than arias as one lasts at least as long as three standard arias!) 

Edited March 15 by Emeralds

[CCL]

Hello @JennyTaylor I’m also a relative opera newbie and found your post very interesting. I’ve seen 9 or 10 operas over the past two years and found that listening to the music a lot beforehand made a difference for me. I agree with those posters who recommended the ROH production of Turandot - it’s excellent and I found the choral singing thrilling. My 22 year old daughter, who doesn’t really have any interest in opera, came with me to see it and really enjoyed herself. I’d also agree with the comments re Mozart operas. The Marriage of Figaro last year at ROH was gorgeous; I’ve booked to see Cosi Fan Tutte this summer. 

[Scheherezade]

Am I wrong in thinking that the rather thrilling ROH Turandot, has gone the way of so many of its other wonderful productions and now seen its last due to cultural stereotyping and the outdated notion that spirit-crushing, non-contextual greige productions are the way forward? How much longer can the current Butterfly last?
 

On which note, my booking for later on in this run is entirely down to Asmik Grigirian’s casting as Butterfly, which I see the critics are singularly raving about. Did she do it for you, @JennyTaylor?

 

Edited March 17 by Scheherezade

[Dawnstar]

56 minutes ago, Scheherezade said:

Am I wrong in thinking that the rather thrilling ROH Turandot, has gone the way of so many of its other wonderful productions and now seen its last due to cultural stereotyping and the outdated notion that spirit-crushing, non-contextual greige productions are the way forward?

 

The last rumours I heard on opera Twitter was that it was going to be scrapped but then got reprieved. I suppose we'll only know for certain when/if it reappears. Fingers crossed...

[Scheherezade]

46 minutes ago, Dawnstar said:

 

The last rumours I heard on opera Twitter was that it was going to be scrapped but then got reprieved. I suppose we'll only know for certain when/if it reappears. Fingers crossed...

Fingers very definitely crossed! 

[Emeralds]

10 hours ago, Scheherezade said:

Am I wrong in thinking that the rather thrilling ROH Turandot, has gone the way of so many of its other wonderful productions and now seen its last due to cultural stereotyping and the outdated notion that spirit-crushing, non-contextual greige productions are the way forward? 

 

I think Andrei Serban's Turandot passed the test of not being guilty of cultural stereotyping- it manages to strike a balance between cultural accuracy and theatrical fantasy. It's well researched and looks wonderful, and sells really well - they would be daft to kill the golden goose. 

[Scheherezade]

They would but that was definitely being put about during the run this time last year so let’s hope that Dawnstar is right about a reprieve.