Building a more positive ballet experience

[Beezie]

If we could bring a positive element to dance culture, what would it be?  Is there a way to get there?  Are we part of the puzzle?

 

Here’s my input:

 

I see children who immerse themselves in a sport, maybe with pro aspirations or just ‘serious amateur.’  Along the way, they play many games, have championships, create achievements.  If they fall short of professional, they still have memories of being a star in ‘that one game’ or ‘for that one goal.’  If they fall short, they still succeed.

 

Then I look at ballet.  Hour after hour of class.…but professional aspirations lead to very little.  (It is 1 in a million, after all.)  No chance to be Clara or Gisselle or the Firebird.  What are our children working toward?  If their professional aspirations fail, they have fewer fond memories of that ‘one moment in the spotlight.’  And, let’s be honest, many year-end recitals fall short of the magic of the Nutcracker or Sleeping Beauty.  But why?  Because we are waiting for perfection before we let our kids dance the classics?  We don’t think we can choreograph for a variety of ages and dance abilities?  Doesn’t that seem silly?

 

It just makes me wonder why we don’t have more amateur ballets?  Let young dancers experience the joy of classical productions throughout their training.  Perhaps it helps temper disappointments with lovely memories.  It helps dancers learn about stage makeup, costumes, lighting, choreography….all those things that lead to a career in the Arts.  Heck, throw in some Business lessons….theater reservations, ticket prices, sponsors.  (And the real business lesson here is that I ABSOLUTELY think this is a viable business model for ex Dancers, Dance Instructors or Amateur Choreographers.  The existing youth productions are already maxed out.  Between ticket sales from friends/family and a participation charge to cover lessons, I am pretty sure it could turn a profit….and create jobs in the Dance industry.)

So there is my idea for anyone who wants to use it.  🙂
 

What are other ideas?  Or add-ons to this one?

 

[Pixiewoo]

DD attends dance competitions both with her dance school and independently. These give her the opportunity to perform and create memories, as well as strengthen friendships. Being placed and winning a medal or trophy is an added bonus.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Swanwings]

I have always been extremely hoinest with my dd; she is determined to make ballet her career. I have told her that she may well have her dreams and ambitions, but to be successful she just needs to be paid to do the things she is trained to do.... It doesnt matter if she is a principal of a major company or corps de ballet jobbing dancer, teacher etc. As long as it makes her happy and she makes a living, then she has won. 

 

The dance training gives them so much more than technique and performance skills; they will be able to complete teacher qualifications (useful if between jobs), private coaching skills, acting skills, there are many avenues in theatre and fitness which become more open to them because it is their world. They learn determination, resilience, how to work hard for something they want.

 

I personally had a minor career in dance, but it left me with many skills which I have now turned to teaching work. These are skills I began to learn at the age of 8 and am still learning now. I would not change it.

[Allwrong]

I agree so much with the desire for more youth ballet opportunities. We generally avoided festivals and competitions, although joining group dances could be fun. But any ballet staging DD could get her hands on - far fewer than we would have liked because we are not London or midlands - we moved heaven and earth to get involved in. And those handful of experiences were truly magical ones. So I do agree that it would be lovely if this type of opportunity was readily available to the keen amateurs. Budding musicians can join orchestras from a young age and produce very imperfect but entertaining music. Ballet could look to that model more often, rather than competitions, I feel. But then I’d have enjoyed watching festivals so much more if they had been displays, not competitions. And overall I feel we have lost a great deal with the early push to professionalisation of so many fun activities: the aspiration to be a gifted amateur has been lost, and with it many opportunities.

[Beezie]

@Allwrong  Why do we have to wait for these opportunities?  Many of people on this forum have daughters and sons who are professionally trained, but have struggled to find professional degrees.  They could be business owners!  And the opportunity of acclaim as a choreographer is probably 3x as likely by staging amateur performances (vs, say, teaching).  I am not a dancer and regrettably have a full time job…..but if I had the time, I would whole-heartedly throw myself into organizing something like this.  ….or at least mentoring a young adult who maybe needed help with the organization/business side.

 

As a side note, many US schools put on these productions annually or biannually.  It is a huge production….but if that is your full job?  And there is experience to pull from in the industry.

 

Honestly, I felt a little bad saying this could be profitable….as I think most arts should be no-profits.  I meant to say that this could ‘turn a living wage’ for the organizers….but could absolutely be a non-profit or charity organization.

Edited March 7, 2023 by Beezie
Typo

[Beezie]

@Swanwings

 

You completely hit on my second desire for improvement in the ballet world.

 

I would love to see pre-professional dancers coached in planning their TWO careers:  the professional dancer and the career that comes AFTER professional dancer.  Even if you make it, there is always going to be that second career.

 

I think young ladies can fall into some pretty dangerous traps when they single-mindedly want a dance career.  Unfortunately, I think it opens them up to being taken advantage of.  
 

But if every dancer knows her two careers, than perhaps they have that ‘little extra’ bit of something needed to push back when being bullied, manipulated, influenced.

 

You are absolutely correct that dance builds skill sets for success:  I have seen serious dancers become doctors, physiotherapists, engineers, traders, finance executives, studio owners, directors of dance festivals…..and of course, dance teachers.  These are people I have bumped into by chance; no dance connections.  These are incredible second careers!  
 

Are we getting to our young dancers early enough and helping them understand their full potential?  Should vocational schools help our dancers do this?  

 

Again, I feel like other sports do better and training children for their pro and after-pro careers.  Or at the very least, young adults may go to university and get a degree while seeking a pro sports career.  I wonder if we could do more on this front in ballet.

[Alexander]

This is my experience coming to dance late in life. Ballet is supremely good at technique, conditioning and working to a syllabus but it, IMO, centre work doesn't replace what other dance forms offer. Ballet may be focused on performance and presentation to an audience but if only it could widen its appeal to include dancing choreographies with, say, a partner or with other dancers at any level. We'd learn choreography, distance, responding to a partner etc. In other words, ballet isn't as social as it could be. Now, no, that doesn't mean a whole bunch of chat while holding mugs of tea but perhaps ballet is missing an opportunity? That is the joy of well, er, dancing....dances! 

[LinMM]

There are definitely fewer Adult amateur ballet companies than used to be but am lucky enough to have danced with three of them over a number of years. But they are still around if you want to add performance experience to ballet classes! 
What I think would be good are more regular weekly Rep classes rather than    just a few weeks in the holidays of main terms! Some ENB rep classes have been very good where we were organised into groups and we had to work out our own choreography based on the themes the teacher had set and then each group perform at the end. So there are definitely some very creative teachers out there we just need more of them!! 
This could be true for childrens classes as well. 
But since Covid hit things seem to have taken a generally backward step. 
More teachers are teaching online only and although this has its place it’s just not the same experience as being in a studio with other people for real. 

 

[Alexander]

Surprised there isn't a repetoire of beginner, intermediate etc choreographed dances to work at that use ballet steps... that would be awesome. I suppose a counter-argument might be, well, dude, you gotta be proficient and up to a standard or, you can do the dance but you really do need to improve technique and if you really do want to do minuet then perhaps this isn't the best place to do it.

[Alexander]

16 minutes ago, LinMM said:

 had to work out our own choreography based on the themes the teacher had set

 

 

I've done this a few times with other dancers in a historical dance context. It's pretty cool getting us to think and feel in different ways how to relate to music, adding contrast and engaging in a creative process.

[LinMM]

I think it’s perfectly desirable to have Rep set at different levels! 
Of course there are always those beginners who want to tackle the Black Swan solo as it is lol but things can always be adapted and there are lots of character parts to have fun with.

Once on an RAD workshop we had fun being the ugly sisters from Cinderella!! 
But also some lovely adapted choreography dancing with a broom…prop supplied! 
Just requires an imaginative teacher! 

[Alexander]

I must admit that doin' a swan having a bit of a bad day... I'd be first up for that. Character swan dance.. YES! But true, there will be folk who want to do the dances but not put the work in to do the technique. So the challenge might be to get that balance. In the fencing world there is non-cooperative play usually at the end of class - it is the part of class fencers want to do; unscripted and fun away from the drills but instructors can offer - you work, you get to play, if no work well its more drills!

Edited March 7, 2023 by Alexander

[PippinPointe]

I have a youth ballet company and we were due to perform season 8 in 2020 - for obvious reasons it sadly didn’t go ahead.

We have tried to get it back up and running but just don’t have the students applying. We have a well known Patron who is very involved but we have had to cancel this year due to a lack of desire for it. It has given so much joy, experience and performance opportunity over the years. It’s two weeks of daily “company class,” rehearsals, make-up etc with our costume department there full time to make sure everything is as it should be. There is usually a performance /dress run for an audience of various groups and then four performances. These opportunities are already there but if there aren’t enough children there aren’t enough people to fulfil the choreography sadly. The company is usually around 40-45 children aged from 8-17. Our first performances were 2011 so we have done this for a while. I think often unless it is attached to a well known establishment people don’t think it’s good enough sadly. 
I just wanted to say that this is already happening but needs support to be able to run 😊
 

[Swanwings]

1 minute ago, PippinPointe said:

I have a youth ballet company and we were due to perform season 8 in 2020 - for obvious reasons it sadly didn’t go ahead.

We have tried to get it back up and running but just don’t have the students applying. We have a well known Patron who is very involved but we have had to cancel this year due to a lack of desire for it. It has given so much joy, experience and performance opportunity over the years. It’s two weeks of daily “company class,” rehearsals, make-up etc with our costume department there full time to make sure everything is as it should be. There is usually a performance /dress run for an audience of various groups and then four performances. These opportunities are already there but if there aren’t enough children there aren’t enough people to fulfil the choreography sadly. The company is usually around 40-45 children aged from 8-17. Our first performances were 2011 so we have done this for a while. I think often unless it is attached to a well known establishment people don’t think it’s good enough sadly. 
I just wanted to say that this is already happening but needs support to be able to run 😊
 

I think this is a particularly relevant point; the school I work at has declined significantly in numbers over the last 3-4 years definitely less children wanting to start ballet. Not sure exactly why this should be the case.

 

 

[Alexander]

Cost of living probably has something to do with it as well? And perhaps a lack of local marketing. I mean I don't see ballet in the shopping malls or other public places to show ballet is here, give it a go?

[Kerfuffle]

I think a lot of dance schools lost pupils during the pandemic, probably those that would have been primary school age when it started. I noticed that at a dance show I was at recently. Also things like exams got held up - and in music too. Cost of living has just added to the financial pressures. 
 

[taxi4ballet]

It might be difficult for youth companies to attract dancers if the people associated with the company are dance teachers with links to a school.  Other dance teachers who run dance schools in the catchment area could be wary of suggesting it to their own pupils in case they end up losing them. 

[Peony]

There are a number of successful youth dance companies such as EYB, NYB, LCB. I think for many they would be a once in a lifetime thing as when you tot up the cost of the experience, plus tickets, dance wear, transport etc you’re probably not getting a lot of change from 1k. 

[taxi4ballet]

31 minutes ago, Peony said:

There are a number of successful youth dance companies such as EYB, NYB, LCB. I think for many they would be a once in a lifetime thing as when you tot up the cost of the experience, plus tickets, dance wear, transport etc you’re probably not getting a lot of change from 1k. 

That's where regional ones could come in, and would give opportunities to more local kids who wouldn't stand a chance with NYB for instance.

 

EYB do tour the country, but it is often several years between visits to some areas, and of course LCB is only any use if you live within travelling distance of London. NYB is very tricky to get in, and you have to be at a pretty high level, so recreational dancers wouldn't really be able to benefit from that at all.

[Peony]

Perhaps it’s the pre-occupation with exams that kills it for ballet. When young people join something like a youth theatre class it’s usually all about performance and any exams are an optional extra. Youth theatre is also a lot cheaper than the ballet equivalents. 
 

[Peanut68]

Very good point made Peony! There is also a tendency in dance (especially ballet)for the same 'types' to always get the lead roles.....whereas drama often has far more diverse opportunities... I so think there is an encouraging move towards much more inclusive & diverse dance & more wider community opportunities too.

I guess in an ideal world all attendees in a dance school would get the opportunity to perform if they wish....I know many operate on a biannual basis; exams one year, school show the next. This perhaps fulfills the need to be able to be judged (as many may base their choice of dance school on the dance exam board, grades offered & exam results achieved) & gives time to plan & budget (often fund raise too)for a larger show than if it was every year.

I especially love seeing the more local dance schools getting involved in community events.....be it dancing at a village fete or a pop-up fitness class on a beach; all great for promoting the joy of dance for health & happiness!

Edited March 8, 2023 by Peanut68
bad grammar...

[Beezie]

6 hours ago, Peanut68 said:

There is also a tendency in dance (especially ballet)for the same 'types' to always get the lead roles.....

Unfortunately, that’s hard to change.  But multiple castings can help.  There are also ballets with ample ‘spotlight’ characters that are ideal for giving many dancers a moment to shine.  Sleeping Beauty is the one I am most familiar with.

 

But even then, being a main is great!  But as someone who got minor parts in plays and musicals as a kid, it is still enjoyable.  It is being part of the team and building something greater than your individual part.

[Alexander]

9 hours ago, Peanut68 said:

.be it dancing at a village fete ...

 

Contradanse [country dance]..super fun and has its own discipline. Not sure if its possible to add classical ballet steps but going straight into sousou during Mr Beveridge's Maggot would get my vote. Full on Jane Austin turbo mode.

 

[EverHopeful]

It would be lovely to see more widespread amateur ballet/dance companies that put on productions regularly, for adults or mixed adults and children. Amateur musical theatre groups are everywhere and seem to be very popular. It would be great to have something similar for ballet. 

[academicdancer]

31 minutes ago, EverHopeful said:

It would be lovely to see more widespread amateur ballet/dance companies that put on productions regularly, for adults or mixed adults and children. Amateur musical theatre groups are everywhere and seem to be very popular. It would be great to have something similar for ballet. 

I am very lucky to dance with a teacher/adult ballet group that puts on annual performances. She also teaches children but adults are her main focus. It's wonderful. I never want to leave my current city (where I've been completing my PhD) because its the only place I've found quality ballet *and* tap classes for adults. 

[Dance*is*life]

In our school we have added choreographic workshops, where the teachers build new dances for various performances or occasions.  We always had a more advanced neo classical style group.  Now we have a contemporary style younger group.  They so enjoy learning the dances and appearing before an audience.  I tend to do my dances only for the end of the year show, but I agree that because dance is a performing art students should learn to perform!