Entry at Upper School without having been to Lower School

[Lena]

Hi, I have a dance obsessed 11 year old, but we are not ready to send her boarding for lower school (nor could we afford to!). But, I am wondering whether by not doing Lower School we jeopardise her chances of doing Vocational Training later on. How many students manage to get into decent full-time vocational training after GCSE who have not been to full-time training before? If we keep doing intermediate foundation onwards at our local studio, and also an Associate Programme (e.g. Ballet Boost or CSB), will that be enough? At the moment she dances 6 times a week but clearly it is not as intense as proper full-time training at RBS, Elmhurst or Tring ! Could it be enough to get more serious later? Interested to hear about any experiences you have with this! Thank you so much.   

[WhereToNow]

If it helps to know, my daughters ballet school have had girls go to ESB/ENB/Central/Rambert, without having been to a vicational lower school, and some without even going to Associate classes 😊

[Lena]

Thank you ally6684, that is really good to know! All the best to your dancer! 

 

[Jan McNulty]

Hello Lena and welcome to the Forum.

[Jan McNulty]

You may find some useful advice in this earlier thread:

 

 

[Ruby Foo]

It’s definitely possible but it really depends on the level of training you can find locally. Will your current teacher be able to provide enough QUALITY hours of training in the future. By yr 10 in the top ballet schools the training becomes very intense and almost semi professional. Will your daughter be training with other students who are like minded and of a similar standard or will she be able to access a few summer intensives and or associates to gauge how she’s getting along? If your current teacher has other pupils who have achieved gaining places in vocational schools then that will give you confidence. Will you have the finances and the time to support all the extra training, some one to one lessons, plus some lessons in different genres? Contemporary? Jazz? Character? These will generally be part of the course in full time training plus body conditioning/ Pilates and specific help with any weaknesses from a physio, from yr 10. The challenge is to combine all the hours of academics and extra homework towards gcse plus the travelling and training without your daughter feeling under tremendous pressure. That’s not to say full time vocational students don’t feel stress and pressure, because they do! One of the advantages of staying at home is being able to de stress, with a bath and good food, pets/tv and your own bed!

There are at least 3 British students ( British trained)  at RBS upper school who were not at lower vocational, and others on this forum who have done it, so it’s possible, but not easy. An amazing teacher, plus the financial means to access some other high quality training, plus a family environment that allows for all this would be key. But that mix will be very different and individual for everyone.

 

[Anna C]

Hi Lena, and welcome from me too.  It absolutely is possible to get into a good Upper School without having been away from 11.  In some cases I think it’s a better idea; particularly if a child is extremely academic, isn’t ready to board at 11, or loves dance but isn’t wanting to focus purely on ballet.  It also allows dancers to go through puberty without the risk of being assessed out, and above all, it makes it much easier for a teenager to change his or her mind about whether ballet is the be-all and end-all.

 

What your dd will need though is *very high quality* local training and enough dance/training hours to keep her training and technique but also stamina at the same level as children at full-time ballet school.  Even with dancing most weekday evenings locally, plus Central Preps/Pre-Seniors and Tring CBA, going away to full-time training at 16 was still such a shock to the system for my dd.  The girls who had boarded even just for years 10 and 11 fared better.  So applying in Year 9 for Years 10 and 11 full time might be a good option for your dd, partly to see how she compares with other girls her age (and of course, good Associate schemes, selective summer schools and so on are all helpful for this).

 

As Valentina says, it’s not easy but it’s definitely possible. 

[Lena]

37 minutes ago, Jan McNulty said:

You may find some useful advice in this earlier thread:

 

 

Thank you Jan, very useful indeed!

[taxi4ballet]

There are far more upper school places than there are at lower school, and yes it is perfectly possible to stay at a regular school until 16 and then go full-time at 16+ (or often 18+ for contemporary and MT courses).

 

You do need to be at a good local dance school though, and ideally something like an associates programme as well.

Edited January 25, 2022 by taxi4ballet

[Dancers Dad]

8 hours ago, Lena said:

Hi, I have a dance obsessed 11 year old, but we are not ready to send her boarding for lower school (nor could we afford to!). But, I am wondering whether by not doing Lower School we jeopardise her chances of doing Vocational Training later on. How many students manage to get into decent full-time vocational training after GCSE who have not been to full-time training before? If we keep doing intermediate foundation onwards at our local studio, and also an Associate Programme (e.g. Ballet Boost or CSB), will that be enough? At the moment she dances 6 times a week but clearly it is not as intense as proper full-time training at RBS, Elmhurst or Tring ! Could it be enough to get more serious later? Interested to hear about any experiences you have with this! Thank you so much.   

Our daughter started at NBS (not sure if this is one you'd consider or whether it would be just the holy trinity?) at 16 - she would not have been ready to be away before that. At around age 13, her ballet teacher said that if she really wants to apply for vocational school, the hard work starts now - and it did. All the classes she could take at her school (ballet, tap, modern, contemporary, intermediate/advanced) plus a weekly private lesson and practising wherever we could find her some space most other days. Also working with a strength & conditioning coach to built strength for a couple of years - and a number of summer schools to see what it was all about.

[Neverdancedjustamum]

It is possible, I’ve heard of a few, but would probably be very expensive and require extreme commitment not just from the child but from the whole family. I assume it would seriously impact time and finances (and maybe even DCs well-being and general family dynamics). I’m guessing it would require a lot of summer intensives, classes within the week of the required high standard (not just hobby), private coaching, multiple associates in the weekends, physio/Pilates/gyro sessions  etc etc. - especially depending on where you’re looking at to go for upper school. Realistically, if you’re looking at the most popular ones, she’ll be against a lot of international students (just look at how actively schools are currently advertising auditions overseas), competition winners (YGP and PdL to name just a couple), kids who are most likely coached by a few different teachers, travel during school holidays to summer intensives not just here but overseas, willing to travel miles and miles to associates etc. Increasingly I find those who are seriously looking at upper school admission are home schooled. This affords them the time to squeeze in as much training as they can during the day and during the school term.  When you think about it, and I’m only guessing this as I have no first hand experience, DCs in full time lower vocational school probably do no less than 8-10 hours of ballet a week maybe increasing as they go up years, plus other dance related classes (contemporary, pointe, rep, solos, choreo etc). Looking at my non-voc DCs timetable, and the times he/she comes home from school after activities and sports and all sorts of social things high schoolers these days do, there is no way we can squeeze in any hours close to that.  I have nothing but respect and admiration for those who can manage to juggle a normal academic school and the training required to get to a top vocational upper school but I also think you need the serious financial means to do this. 

[Lena]

21 hours ago, valentina said:

It’s definitely possible but it really depends on the level of training you can find locally. Will your current teacher be able to provide enough QUALITY hours of training in the future. By yr 10 in the top ballet schools the training becomes very intense and almost semi professional. Will your daughter be training with other students who are like minded and of a similar standard or will she be able to access a few summer intensives and or associates to gauge how she’s getting along? If your current teacher has other pupils who have achieved gaining places in vocational schools then that will give you confidence. Will you have the finances and the time to support all the extra training, some one to one lessons, plus some lessons in different genres? Contemporary? Jazz? Character? These will generally be part of the course in full time training plus body conditioning/ Pilates and specific help with any weaknesses from a physio, from yr 10. The challenge is to combine all the hours of academics and extra homework towards gcse plus the travelling and training without your daughter feeling under tremendous pressure. That’s not to say full time vocational students don’t feel stress and pressure, because they do! One of the advantages of staying at home is being able to de stress, with a bath and good food, pets/tv and your own bed!

There are at least 3 British students ( British trained)  at RBS upper school who were not at lower vocational, and others on this forum who have done it, so it’s possible, but not easy. An amazing teacher, plus the financial means to access some other high quality training, plus a family environment that allows for all this would be key. But that mix will be very different and individual for everyone.

 

Thank you Valentina, that is very helpful! 

[dancingboy65]

DS is in his 2nd year at Central and went to a local dance school. He did Ballet Boost and Northern Ballet associates, and a couple of summer schools (as we couldn't afford anymore!) He did do a few masterclasses along the way as well. He had excellent quality local teaching and  associate classes. He was ready at 16 to go to full time training and had 4 auditions and was offered places at 3 so he did well! Good luck to you and your DD!

[Lifeafterballet]

Our Ds went to vocational ballet school at 17 after starting ballet at 12. He did a couple of local church hall RAD ballet classes a week and SAs in Covent Garden for a year before applying. He didn’t do any SIs apart from OPES and MBS. It was incredibly tough going from local training to full time. He broke physically very quickly in 6:1 and considered stopping. But in 6:2 he met an inspirational teacher who encouraged and supported him. He is now a professional ballet dancer. There were quite a few students who had not attended lower school training and they were a breath of fresh air. Our Dd did Lower and upper school and we watched the light fade in them by the end of year 11. The passion goes and they are competing against non vocational students who are fresh, passionate and driven. I wish we had not let Dd go at 11.  She would have been happier at home and us richer ££ 🤣 That was our experience. 
Good luck to you both. 

[taxi4ballet]

I think on the whole it is easier for boys to be accepted into full-time training at 16 if they are late starters and show a lot of potential / have the right physique and facility. The pool of boys for the schools to choose from is a lot smaller.

 

With girls the situation is entirely different and far more difficult. In my dd's case and for many of her friends who were successful the year she auditioned, they were all at Advanced 1 or 2, had been on pointe for several years, and were also associates at one vocational school or another. You also have to bear in mind that they are up against the best international applicants too. There are so many girls to choose from that it would be incredibly rare for a vocational upper school to offer a place to someone not already at that level. They are more likely to offer places at lower school on future potential only, rather than the level they are already working at.

[MumToTu]

Hi Lena, it is absolutely possible! We have seen it happen a lot on our journey & personally speaking my dd had full time funded offers for Tring & Central last year.  She was an RBS SA, and at a good dance school - but certainly not over doing it training every week intensively! Most of the 2 years was all dancing in lockdown in a our living room so very limited and prepping for GCSEs which she did well at so were not neglected at all. In fact some students we have seen seem to do very well who go later.

My dd is another story, unfortunately lockdown changed her feelings about dance and made her decide on another path - she now want to study law now at university for now, you have to do the right thing for you at that point in time.  Everything, can change you never know what is round the corner - my advice is to just enjoy the journey it’s a fabulous one xx 

[rowan]

My DD didn’t go to vocational lower school. She went to a normal comprehensive school and, after school, a good-quality local dance school which also could offer enough lessons. As it was local, it didn’t require any commitment from us as parents to fetch and carry, and she was on a large discount to help with the fees. She didn’t do any private lessons or take any ballet exams either. She did do a couple of summer schools in her early teens - more just to see if she felt she was on the right path. She’s now a professional ballet dancer.

[glowlight]

@Lena - if you are within travelling distance of Leeds it is worth looking at Northern Ballet's Centre for Advanced Training which is intended to be a vocational level training programme for students 11 to 16 who don't go to full time vocational school.

[DancingtoDance]

If you live close enough to a vocational ballet school and if your daughter gets in a vocational ballet school, maybe your daughter can be a day student?

I know about Young Dancers Academy (https://www.youngdancersacademy.com/) which is audition-only and has holiday courses. I don’t know much about it.

 

I’m not sure I can answer your question well, because I don’t have experience with vocational ballet training. Maybe look into whether there are students who went straight from your child’s dance studio to a vocational ballet school?   
 

If your daughter will take or is already taking associate ballet classes, winter ballet intensives or summer ballet intensives, maybe the teachers of those classes could be able to give advice regarding that as they would have an idea of what is needed to get into vocational ballet school as well as your daughter’s aptitude for vocational ballet training and level of ballet.