Grade 7 and Intermediate or Only Intermediate

[Arielle]

Hi everyone!
I finished my Inter-foundation last year and Grade 6 last month. For now, I'm getting trouble choosing Grade 7 and Intermediate or just Intermediate. I wish I could finish my grade 8 before I go to college which is only 2 more years to go but I much more like the vocational grade syllabus. Will it be too hard to manage these two grades together?

Edited December 22, 2021 by Arielle

[balletbean]

50 minutes ago, Arielle said:

Hi everyone!
I finished my Inter-foundation last year and Grade 6 last month. For now, I'm getting trouble choosing Grade 7 and Intermediate or just Intermediate. I wish I could finish my grade 8 before I go to college which is only 2 more years to go but I much more like the vocational grade syllabus. Will it be too hard to manage these two grades together?

Hi. Sorry I’ve re written my original response to explain myself better. If you have the support of your teacher and prepared for the hard work it is possible. 
My DD was in a similar situation to you. She took her grade 7 in the Dec just 6months after taking her grade 6 Whilst also commencing the inter syllabus. The following June (so just after her last GCSE) she took her Inter and Grade 8 just two days apart.  
Her teacher was amazing that’s why they’ve got to be with you 100%🙂

ps. Having re-read my response I’m not too sure if I’ve explained myself any better!! 🤣 oops. 

 

Edited December 22, 2021 by balletbean

[Pups_mum]

It's a long time ago now ( and the old vocational syllabus so things may be different) but my DD did both the vocational and graded exams alongside each other and found that they complemented each other very well. If I recall rightly, there wasn't really anything new to her technically speaking in grades 6-8 but they were a lot more "dancey" than the old vocational syllabus if that makes sense, so she enjoyed the contrast.

[Anna C]

Hi Arielle and welcome. ☺️ If you are referring to RAD exams, it’s absolutely possible to do grades 6-8 alongside vocational exams - as Pups_mum says, the grades are less technical and much more dancey than Intermediate and above, so are a nice change if you study both at the same time.  

 

You might well be able to do grades 7 and 8 before starting college; my daughter did a grade each year (obviously the vocational exams take longer).

[balletbean]

The only other comment I will add. 
Please be mindful of the cost. Not just the additional lessons that you no doubt will have during the next two years on-top of your regular lessons but also the examination fees. They don’t get any less the higher the grades. Costs can soon mount up in a short period of time without you realising. Especially if there is travel involved to the examination venue. Good luck 

Edited December 22, 2021 by balletbean

[Blue Box Ballet]

My question is why? 
What are you hoping to get out of it? 
Are they needed for an entry requirement? 
If it’s from a completist point of view then go ahead. 
If it’s for technical & artistic growth then as long as your teachers(s) are equipping you with the knowledge and guidance needed then of course you could do all. 

 

- 

The problem always lies in, is your teacher a ballet teacher or a syllabus teacher? 
If they are a ‘ballet’ teacher then they will be equipping you with all of the appropriate skills needed to be accessed/ examined whenever you are deemed to be ready and the actual learning of exercises should be minimal - especially with apps/ DVDs available for home learning.

 

If they are a ‘syllabus’ teacher and all classes are simply building up to an exam then this is of course a huge problem as these classes will be (as mentioned above) at a significant extra cost. 

Exam syllabi are - at their core, a tool for assessment. However they are very often mistakenly used as a system of training. I am on a few teacher FB groups and was astounded to read a year or so ago that a teacher (after years of teaching) had ‘trialled’ building up the vocabulary instead of just teaching the set exercises and was pleasantly surprised that their students thrived. 

I always squirm when I read teachers saying I’m an RAD/ Imperial ballet teacher. 
Yes it’s a good benchmark for sequential build ups but teaching and learning is and should be so much more than passing exams. 
 

 

Edited December 22, 2021 by CMcBallet
Clarity.

[glowlight]

If your schedule permits, why not try doing both and see how you get along for a bit?  If it works...great.  If not you can always drop down to just one.

 

If you had to chose between the two I would opt for Intermediate, but only because I have the perception that it opens other doors (eg access to teaching qualifications).

[Canary]

Its been a while now but if it’s RAD then I believe Grade 7 is dance only, no barre and a very enjoyable exam pulling all your technical syllabus together in to a performance. 
vocational exams are in my opinion big confidence boosters and huge achievement for dancers and they pull on their syllabus training throughout their career and choreographers can tell RAD heads, chechetti arms. Intermediate I’d suggest is the one exam a trained dancer deserves to have under their belt - it’s a fabulous foundation for any dance form. 

[BriseeVolee]

43 minutes ago, Canary said:

Its been a while now but if it’s RAD then I believe Grade 7 is dance only, no barre and a very enjoyable exam pulling all your technical syllabus together in to a performance. 
vocational exams are in my opinion big confidence boosters and huge achievement for dancers and they pull on their syllabus training throughout their career and choreographers can tell RAD heads, chechetti arms. Intermediate I’d suggest is the one exam a trained dancer deserves to have under their belt - it’s a fabulous foundation for any dance form. 

 

I think you're referring to Grade 8, in which barre is presented in the exam but not marked, only the dances in the centre go towards the exam grade.

 

Grade 7 is pretty similar to Grade 6 in terms of substance, although there is a big Romantic influence throughout in Grade 7 which I found enjoyable as quite a different style to the vocational grades . I remember the Hungarian character work being a lot of fun! I did Grade 7 and Intermediate at the same time (then Grade 8 and Adv 1 around the same time), and think the higher grades really are a nice counterpoint to the highly technical focus of the vocational grades. If you have the time to take classes in both, why not give it a try, and you can always pick one or the other later on if one of them suits you better?

[taxi4ballet]

The only thing I'd say is that when you are doing a vocational grade it is more physically demanding, so you really need to up your hours dancing to improve things such as your strength and overall stamina. Doing a grade class alongside the vocational work will give you extra training hours. You could always do both classes and just aim to do one of the exams though. Both RAD grade 7 and intermediate are awarded UCAS points.

 

[Blue Box Ballet]

1 hour ago, Canary said:

Its been a while now but if it’s RAD then I believe Grade 7 is dance only, no barre and a very enjoyable exam pulling all your technical syllabus together in to a performance. 
vocational exams are in my opinion big confidence boosters and huge achievement for dancers and they pull on their syllabus training throughout their career and choreographers can tell RAD heads, chechetti arms. Intermediate I’d suggest is the one exam a trained dancer deserves to have under their belt - it’s a fabulous foundation for any dance form. 

Having had a 20 year performing  career I never heard a professional Choregrapher or Director refer to an RAD head or Chechetti arm. 
I have, however taught many a student who cannot adapt to a new style because they were only exposed to a very limited movement vocabulary - eg their exam syllabus, in their formative years. 

Edited December 22, 2021 by CMcBallet
Clarity

[Jan McNulty]

7 hours ago, BriseeVolee said:

 

I think you're referring to Grade 8, in which barre is presented in the exam but not marked, only the dances in the centre go towards the exam grade.

 

Grade 7 is pretty similar to Grade 6 in terms of substance, although there is a big Romantic influence throughout in Grade 7 which I found enjoyable as quite a different style to the vocational grades . I remember the Hungarian character work being a lot of fun! I did Grade 7 and Intermediate at the same time (then Grade 8 and Adv 1 around the same time), and think the higher grades really are a nice counterpoint to the highly technical focus of the vocational grades. If you have the time to take classes in both, why not give it a try, and you can always pick one or the other later on if one of them suits you better?

 

Hello BriseeVolee and welcome to the Forum!

[balletgremlin]

If you can continue doing both, I'd recommend doing that. Intermediate and Grade 7 are very different and both lovely in their own way. As I'm sure you're aware having taken 6 and IF, the vocational grades require a strong technique and pointe work and the grades are much more dance-y and performance based - and you get to do free movement and character which I've always loved.

 

I would also add that there is no requirement you need to tick off all your exams and rush to get grade 8 done before you go off to college. Exams will be there no matter your age. I passed grade 6 in 2004, took a break from ballet, took my Intermediate this November (along with a repertoire unit) and will be taking grade 7 in March.

[Viv]

It's common at my studio for students to continue with the graded syllabus while doing the vocational syllabus, because as said above, they compliment each other and the extra training hours can help in building the stamina for your vocational exam.

 

Personally, I did intermediate, advanced foundation and grade 7 all at the same time, and in fact did all three exams within 2 days, all while working full time. I would not recommend this course 😂 But it worked for what I wanted at the time and I had my own reason for doing things this way.

 

What I found was that at times during the year, I found grade 7 a bit of a drag. I was tired, and I was sore, and I wanted one night of couch time not doing ballet just to rest and relax. But at other times, I loved the opportunity to do something new, and I found it really pushed my artistry as well as my technique, and allowed me to remember that ballet is fun! While I prefer the vocational syllabus overall, the higher grades give you the chance to really dance with a bit less pressure. This was particularly the case when it came to doing the exams themselves. I did intermediate in the morning of Day 1 and advanced foundation that afternoon. I came out an absolute wreck, emotionally and physically exhausted and dreading having to be kind to myself to do another exam the next day. But on Day 2, I woke up and realised that the hardest things were behind me, and this time I could just relax and enjoy myself. When the music started I was transported, I gave the best performance I have ever given and will gladly say that Grade 7 was my favourite exam I have ever done. And that was showcased in my results - Grade 7 was my best grade ever, well into the distinction range and even, if RAD do decide to introduce one as previously proposed, a high distinction! Fully 20 points above my advanced foundation score. Grade 7 reignited my passion for ballet, inspired me to continue with RAD exams even though I was exhausted, and gave me the biggest confidence boost that I sorely needed at that time. So I say give it a go and see what you can get out of it  If it becomes too much, then you can always walk away until it's the right fit for your life and your goals.

[Kate_N]

On 22/12/2021 at 17:45, CMcBallet said:

Exam syllabi are - at their core, a tool for assessment. However they are very often mistakenly used as a system of training. I am on a few teacher FB groups and was astounded to read a year or so ago that a teacher (after years of teaching) had ‘trialled’ building up the vocabulary instead of just teaching the set exercises and was pleasantly surprised that their students thrived.

Totally agree with your posts, @CMcBallet - the emphasis on a graded exam syllabus is out of kilter with the actual profession.  Most conservatoires use their own training methods. Although there are stylistic differences between national systems of training (Russian, British, and French) which you can see in dancers in class. The one I notice most is anyone trained in the formal Vaganova system (and this training got my pro dancer relative her first full time company place). We know that the Royal Ballet has a different style to, say, the Mariinsky. But all dancers should be able to do whatever choreographers ask for.  (And at a much much much lower level, I know when I’ve taken class in America, I’m easily picked by teachers as “English trained.” )

 

For teachers without reasonable professional experience as performers, there is a tendency for various named syllabi to take over - tail wagging the dog, so to speak. And I suppose it’s a way of reassuring parents who know nothing about dance, that their children are progressing and are assessed to a set of fixed criteria at a national level.  However, ballet training in the USA for example, focus on exams and set syllabi is far less common.

 

 

But back to @Arielle’s question - if you have the time (and the cash!) it seems sensible to do both together. When I was in syllabus classes, it was quite normal to do vocational and graded classes side by side. Go for it! Each set of tasks will give you different skills.
 

But no dance director in the performance bit of the profession will care about paper qualifications; you’ll be auditioning on the strength of your dancing.  However, if you want to teach, it can be useful to have this inside knowledge of preparing for and taking these exams.

[taxi4ballet]

The whole point of the graded syllabi (from whichever examining body) is that they are designed for, and specifically aimed at, the recreational dancer. The overwhelming majority - probably 95% - of children who start taking ballet classes are doing it as an activity for fun and nothing more, which is as it should be. Very few of them will have the facility, ability or potential to even consider dance as a career. They do it for the enjoyment, the challenge, and they and their parents, who pay the bills at the end of the day, will get satisfaction from passing graded exams and being awarded a certificate or a medal, even at the most junior level.

 

There are plenty of opportunities for the most talented youngsters to access additional training over and above syllabus work, whether it be associate classes, private lessons, or for the chosen few, vocational school. But for the vast majority, that's not going to happen.

 

 

[BalletcoForum Moderators]

Hi everyone.  We have had to hide a couple of posts because they are unnecessarily rude and some others as they referred back to posts that have now been hidden. It is Christmas Eve, we have all been through a difficult year, so we have a very low tolerance for this kind of thing.  Please treat others the way you wish to be treated.  

 

Merry Christmas to you all.

[Anna C]

1 hour ago, taxi4ballet said:

The whole point of the graded syllabi (from whichever examining body) is that they are designed for, and specifically aimed at, the recreational dancer. The overwhelming majority - probably 95% - of children who start taking ballet classes are doing it as an activity for fun and nothing more, which is as it should be. Very few of them will have the facility, ability or potential to even consider dance as a career. They do it for the enjoyment, the challenge, and they and their parents, who pay the bills at the end of the day, will get satisfaction from passing graded exams and being awarded a certificate or a medal, even at the most junior level.

 

There are plenty of opportunities for the most talented youngsters to access additional training over and above syllabus work, whether it be associate classes, private lessons, or for the chosen few, vocational school. But for the vast majority, that's not going to happen.

 

 

 

Yes, exactly this.  Children who are aiming to take their ballet as far as they can - whether that is 16 or 18+ full-time training, aiming for a career in performing, aiming to train as a Teacher, or “just” for UCAS points, as very serious hobby before university, whatever - have plenty of opportunities for non-syllabus ballet and performance opportunities by doing good, selective Associate classes, workshops, masterclasses, Youth Ballet, summer schools and so on.  

 

Taking exams, whether they be grades or vocational grades, is worthwhile, satisfying, the norm in lots of extra-curricular activities (you wouldn’t ask a piano student “Why? What do you hope to achieve?” when they entered for an exam) and for parents who are new to the world of recreational dance, a great starting point when looking for a local dance school for their little one (I found dd’s RAD school by going on the RAD website).  Even the different Syllabi between awarding bodies have their merits; my daughter moved from an ISTD school to an RAD school at 7 because she had tried RAD Character Dance at a “Dance Day” and loved it. 

 

Yes, if you’re aiming to be a professional ballet dancer in an established company then of course you need more than “just” local syllabus training; nobody’s saying that - but how many 3 year-olds starting dance, teenage recreational dancers, or adult beginners make it into the profession? Come to that, how many want to? Does that mean they shouldn’t enjoy the achievement of studying for and passing an exam or presentation class? 

 

Those “RAD Teachers/Imperial Teachers” give a lot of people a good, solid grounding and a benchmark for going onto other things like teaching, Associates, full-time training and performing, but they also give a lot of children, teenagers and adults a lovely hobby, personal satisfaction, and a nice certificate and medal for their wall.  Absolutely nothing wrong with that.

 

 

[Dance*is*life]

I teach Grade 7 between IF and Intermediate.  The students are normally about 13 by that stage.    I love teaching my students some ballet history with their syllabus work and as Grade 7 is  based on the Romantic period it's ideal for that.   In addition many of the new exercises help train them for their Intermediate.  Last year, because of Corona and zoom classes,  I taught Grade 6 instead of 7 as it was less of a jump for them, but this year I realised that this had left them with a gap in their knowledge that would normally have allowed them to access the Intermediate work more easily. In fact one keen Intermediate student joined this year's Grade 7 class as an extra and is really enjoying it and improving too. 

 

I use Grade 7 as a stepping stone to Intermediate and add in free work to prepare them even more - working on double pirouettes and posé turns and of course a lot of pointe.  As well as my syllabus classes this year's Grade 7 group have also added on a free work ballet class with a Russian teacher.  He often teaches them exercises differently from me and they turn to me for clarification.  I tell them that that is perfect - they will need to be versatile if they want to advance, but correct technique -turn out, placing etc-is the same however you do or call an exercise.  

 

Grade 7 is a delightful syllabus to learn between the vocationals -  it develops the students artistically as well as technically and they usually get much higher marks than for vocationals plus a medal!   If I have a talented older student whom I want to push I get them to do both Grade 7 and Inter together, but to take only one of the exams - usually Inter.   I do like exam work as it motivates and pushes the students to greater efforts, however not all our students suit them and not all parents can afford them, so we allow them all to go up to the next level whether they have taken the exam or not.  Anyway we only work on the syllabus from about October to March and never start on the next syllabus until the following school year.  Our students also learn other dance genres and many are really good at these, whilst struggling with classical technique, so I feel it's important to give them an all round training.   I don't train them to pass exams but to learn to dance.........