Tap - how important a part of a dancer's training is it?

[Legseleven]

DD didn't enjoy tap very much and stopped at the age of 8. She does have very bendy banana feet and hyper-mobile ankles so her teachers were not averse to her stopping tap before it got too technical, although if she had loved it and continued they told me that they would simply have kept a careful eye on her in terms of ankle stability for pointe work. 

 

I think tap may possibly help some children who don't have innate musicality simply because it is very obvious when someone is out of time and tapping! Not so great to watch an unmusical tap dancer though...;)

[Moomin]

The key point for me is that she doesn't particularly enjoy tap! It make her more versatile (but I don't think many ballet opportunities require tap) but the same could be said for other dance types, gymnastics, singing, drama....etc, and she may even enjoy one of those!

[Nicola H]

4 hours ago, Pas de Quatre said:

Proud of being a traditionalist! 

It would be interesting to see what the reaction of the masses would be pointe were a traditionally male technique being sought by females...

[Jan McNulty]

28 minutes ago, mph said:

It would be interesting to see what the reaction of the masses would be pointe were a traditionally male technique being sought by females...

 

Of course pointe is not exclusively the preserve of females.  The first time I saw a man on pointe was before I got interested in watching ballet.  It was a Thai dancer called Tam who was dancing with a contemporary company called Extemporary Dance Theatre.

 

Of course Botton in Ashton's The Dream is en pointe and let us not forget the truly awesome Trocks!  I am sure there are other men en pointe too.

Edited April 15, 2017 by Jan McNulty
To correct character name

[Pas de Quatre]

Sorry Janet, it is Bottom not Puck who is on pointe in Ashton's Dream.

[Jan McNulty]

You are, of course, quite right PDQ.  Bottom is danced en pointe in Ashton's Dream.

 

I've corrected my post.

[Confuddled]

1 hour ago, Moomin said:

The key point for me is that she doesn't particularly enjoy tap! It make her more versatile (but I don't think many ballet opportunities require tap) but the same could be said for other dance types, gymnastics, singing, drama....etc, and she may even enjoy one of those!

 

Good point. I know very little about dance (which explains my username) and I just didn't have the confidence to go against what her teacher said. Now that I've had some advice, I feel more able to - but not until next term, as I've paid for this term's classes already. I'm already resisting more hours of ballet, as she just finds a class longer than 1 1/2 hours is too long, especially as it goes into the evening when she's usually winding down for bed. I really don't want to be at odds with her ballet teacher, as it tends to end with my daughter getting asked again and again by the teacher why she can't do the extra classes, and my daughter finds that really stressful.

[sarahw]

Move teacher?

[Moomin]

Does she go somewhere very competitive? I bet it is quite upsetting for her, at 8 it's not even like she has any control over how many classes she does! I think most schools would have the younger ones doing 2x 45 minute classes rather than 90 minutes, any child would find that a long time to fully concentrate and keep the energy levels up after a day at school!

[Confuddled]

1 hour ago, sarahw said:

Move teacher?

I've suggested it, but my daughter loves the other classes she does there and doesn't want to move.

 

48 minutes ago, Moomin said:

Does she go somewhere very competitive? I bet it is quite upsetting for her, at 8 it's not even like she has any control over how many classes she does! I think most schools would have the younger ones doing 2x 45 minute classes rather than 90 minutes, any child would find that a long time to fully concentrate and keep the energy levels up after a day at school!

I've no idea, I just picked the nearest class (five years ago) and don't know much about other ballet schools (though I've looked at their websites). They don't do festivals or anything. They are expected to do 90 minute classes from Grade 1, and then from Grade 2 the classes are theoretically 90 minutes but most do an extra 45 minutes, so 2 1/4 hours in total. Is this not standard? I know there are some other local ballet schools that do less, but as far as I know they don't have children auditioning (successfully, in some cases) for JAs and various youth ballets, so I thought that this was the usual amount for a fairly serious school?

Edited April 15, 2017 by Confuddled
Typo

[aileen]

The teacher should not (IMO) be questioning your daughter about the number of classes which she attends. That is a matter which should be directed to you as the parent as there are all sorts of reasons why a parent may not take a child to a particular classes / particular classes. I feel that the teacher's behaviour is inappropriate and bordering on bullying, particularly if she can see that your daughter is getting upset. Personally, I would have a firm word with the teacher about this and, if her response , is unsatisfactory, move schools. Your daughter should not be afraid of her teacher.

[Moomin]

No, I'd say it's definitely not standard but I'm not trying to imply there's anything wrong with it either! I think the 'norm' would be 2x 45min- 1 hour for lower grades and the more talented ones could be associates or joining youth ballets etc. If your daughter wants to join lots of youth ballets it's also worth baring in mind that the rehearsal schedules themselves are quite punishing and will give her a lot of extra dance hours. If a long class suits you and her no problem but I think it is more usual to do shorter classes more frequently and you may find the progress is better doing 2 shorter lessons than 1 long one. 

[Mrs Brown]

My 8 and 9 year old do 1hr ballet and 30 minutes tap on one day and an hour of modern and 30 minutes tap another day, they also do an hour of Spanish dance on another day. 90 minutes is the most expected at their age in our school. they seem to go up to 2hrs (but still split with different dance styles so two individual one hour classes on one evening) when they are about 12ish/grade4 ISTD. occasionally an individual might double up grades so take more clsses a week but still wouldn't do it all in one evening. 

[xanthe]

My almost-8 year-old does the following:

1 x 45 min standard class

1 x 60 min grade class

1 x 60 min modern class (as part of a 3 hour MT course so sometimes there is less dance and more singing depending on what they're working on).

 

If by some miracle she gets onto an associate scheme then that will add another 2hrs of ballet. Checking with a number of ballet dancers/teachers, they felt that she was doing an appropriate level for her age given that she is potentially looking at some kind of vocational school for Y7.

 

90 minute classes sound long for Grade 2. Having pretty much done a spread-sheet of London ballet schools when I was trying to find one we could get to last year, pretty much everywhere does 45-60 minutes until they get to the much higher grades and pointe work.

[sarahw]

Confuddled - I agree with Aileen. I know it's difficult if your child doesn't want to move dance school but IMO some decisions are best made by the adult.

 

We moved my son's academic school - despite bullying he didn't want to move as knew nothing else and likes familiarity. The move was the best thing we did - only wish we'd done it sooner.

[Pointetoes]

DD didn't want to move dance schools despite being bullied by the teacher eventually when things got beyond being bad she crumpled. A week later she started at a new school and now wishes she had moved earlier, hindsight is a great thing. Your daughter is young, she will easily make new friends.  Sometimes we have to remember that we are the adults. 

[Confuddled]

13 hours ago, aileen said:

The teacher should not (IMO) be questioning your daughter about the number of classes which she attends. That is a matter which should be directed to you as the parent as there are all sorts of reasons why a parent may not take a child to a particular classes / particular classes. I feel that the teacher's behaviour is inappropriate and bordering on bullying, particularly if she can see that your daughter is getting upset. Personally, I would have a firm word with the teacher about this and, if her response , is unsatisfactory, move schools. Your daughter should not be afraid of her teacher.

I don't think it's bullying - I think the teacher is very keen for all her pupils to maximise their potential, and this comes over as being rather pushy about extra classes, getting distinctions in exams etc. I think the effect is a problem (and I've talked to her about it, which did help her understand and limit the impact it was having on my daughter) but I'm pretty sure it's not meant nastily. 

 

4 hours ago, sarahw said:

Confuddled - I agree with Aileen. I know it's difficult if your child doesn't want to move dance school but IMO some decisions are best made by the adult.

 

We moved my son's academic school - despite bullying he didn't want to move as knew nothing else and likes familiarity. The move was the best thing we did - only wish we'd done it sooner.

I've thought about it, but my daughter is worried about finding somewhere with the same range of classes, and quality of teaching, locally. I don't know how to go about finding somewhere better, apart from asking around, and that's a bit hard to do because other parents will comment on how nice the teacher is, whether the classes are convenient etc, but it's hard to get a sense of how good the teaching is. And my daughter really enjoys the rigour and high standards.

 

1 hour ago, Pointetoes said:

DD didn't want to move dance schools despite being bullied by the teacher eventually when things got beyond being bad she crumpled. A week later she started at a new school and now wishes she had moved earlier, hindsight is a great thing. Your daughter is young, she will easily make new friends.  Sometimes we have to remember that we are the adults. 

I agree, if I thought it was the right decision to move I would just over-rule her. But I'm not sure it is - it might well be that the other  options would be problematic too. There's definitely a stereotype of the shouty, hard-to-please, pernickety about appearance, horribly disorganised because she only thinks about dance, ballet teacher. I don't know if that's just a stereotype or whether it's actually pretty standard and what she'd find elsewhere, too.

[Pointetoes]

Confuddled wher are you based ? There are enough of us on here who may be able to offer you advice on other schools in your location. 

[aileen]

I stand by what I say. Questions about the number of classes, private lessons etc taken should be directed to you, the parent, not a child of eight. The teacher may have the best of intentions but that doesn't mean that her behaviour is appropriate. As has been mentioned on previous threads, ballet teachers are often given far too much leeway by parents because of all the mystique surrounding ballet and most parents' lack of knowledge about ballet training and the world of ballet in general. 

[Pas de Quatre]

I would agree with Aileen, all contact & discussions should be between the teacher and parent.  For a teacher to put pressure on an 8 year old is totally inappropriate.  With an older child, there might be scope for discussion about whether her timetable of homework and other activities would accommodate more hours of dance, but the final say is with the parent.

 

Recently I had the mother of a 15 year old pupil ask if I could send my information emails, i.e. class/rehearsal times and fees to the pupil direct so that she could learn to organise her life.  However, I wasn't happy with this, and pointed out to the mother that until such time as the pupil was paying fees from her own bank account and driving herself to class, information would go to the person who needed to arrange this.

[sarahw]

I agree with Aileen and PDQ

[Confuddled]

 

Thanks. You are all prompting me to look into other options, though I don't want to share my location as that's rather identifying, combined with the other stuff I've posted. I have to say, I completely agree with aileen that there is something about the mystique of ballet that makes it somehow harder to question her teacher or know what is and isn't appropriate / normal. 

[sarahw]

You'll be wishing you never asked!! We're all very good on opinions. ..... But very well meaning...

[Moomin]

If you've had a word and it doesn't happen again I'd let it go. It may not have been said exactly how reported or maybe it was just a lapse in judgement but if you're otherwise happy maybe see how it goes?