Burning out at almost 13?

[Cara in NZ]

I am wondering what to do and thought I'd ask you knowledgable people! We are surrounded by madly enthusiastic talented dancers at DD's classes but she has found it all a bit much this year and is now refusing to consider any holiday workshops or extra coaching. Some days she just seems discouraged and exhausted! We were delighted when she got into our Scholars (JA) programme this year, but it's deadly serious and she isn't sure she'll get back in next year – or even if she wants to! She has 4 compulsory ballet classes, 1 Pilates with her studio each week (just done RAD Intermediate and was disappointed to only scrape a Distinction), plus 2 ballet and a Pilates in the JA programme, plus a private lesson most weeks. I'm also a bit stunned that she got a lower exam result in the year she was doing the most classes ever! She doesn't think she wants a dance career, although I'm not sure if this is just her playing it safe in case she doesn't make the grade. I'm very aware that if she does want to keep the option of auditioning for full-time training at 15 or 16, she needs to be training at a certain level. She seems so young to be having to consider such decisions! Considering that it just gets harder in their teens, I'm torn between trying to motivate her, and backing off and letting her reduce her workload next year. We will find out in November if she has a place in next year's Scholars programme (as NZ's school year is Feb to Dec), so that will help guide us, but even if she does get back in, she's talking about turning the place down. She has worked so hard to this point, and has just finished months of physio to help chronic knee pain, so I thought she'd be feeling positive but I think the exam result has knocked her. She really thought she'd done a good job. Sigh. Any advice? We're about to start the last term for the year so maybe she is just tired. I just want dance to be a positive thing in her life. It has helped her confidence so much, and now that confidence seems to be flagging.

[Harwel]

I think this is a tricky age for our DC. The fun, childish dream is replaced with the realisation that this wonderful dream is actually a lot of hard work and fraught with uncertainty.

 

I think the first thing to say is that your dd has done extremely well to gain a distinction for her intermediate at 12! Wow! Add into that a painful knee injury/growth related pain which will no doubt have knocked her confidence and reduced the amount of dancing development. Disappointment be gone! Look at your dd own individual journey and keep it firmly in focus. She has had to adapt to an increased dance work load and no doubt an increased academic one too!

 

I would definitely not encourage extra classes, coaching in the holidays. Let her have a complete break. It will give we time to process and see if she misses it. There is no doubt stress about getting through to the next year of associates, if not from your dd, then from the other girls on the scheme, her reluctance may be a coping mechanism.

 

At the end of the day, our DC have to really want this career. No amount of encouragement from mum is going to make it happen if she doesn't desperately want it herself. Whether she goes on to pursue a career in dance or not, she will have gained masses from her journey so far and it just sounds as if she needs space to understand what she really wants to do. Good luck.

[Cara in NZ]

Thank you Harwel – what a lovely response. These girls put so much pressure on themselves, you're right. Here's hoping a break over (NZ) summer will help!

[Picturesinthefirelight]

I find it quite sad that your dd obviously puts herself under so much pressure that she finds an intermediate distinction at age 12 disappointing.

 

My dd took her exam last year age 14 & was thrilled either distinction. Most of her friends at vocational school were 13 when they took theirs but dd had to wait due to strength issues.

 

I would let her take a step back if that's what she wants. It might be she just needs a break, to step off the treadmill for a short while.

[CeliB]

I agree with the above - a break is a really good idea. I was so nervous about DS taking summers off that I more or less persuaded him to do a summer intensive every year- in retrospect I would say only half of these or less had any real value (and some only because he had such fun being e.g. in New York), Not because the training was poor quality, just because he would have done better with a complete break. Because the summer break in the USA is so long he still ended up with about 5 weeks completely free and even then I used to get anxious he should be stretching etc, but he was totally determined to do nothing but laze around and have a normal life with his friends (he is very very lucky to have maintained a close friendship with one of the boys he was at school with here until 14 and so had instant access into a great friendship group). I know one of DS's friends at vocational school never took a single summer intensive (her parents couldn't fund it) and it didn't seem to do her any harm (she got a contract with  prestigious European junior company at the age of 16 and with the parent company at 17). 

 

I think at 13 it won't be a career ending decision if she drops back a bit (my DS didn't even START intensive training until 14, although I am aware its a bit different for boys) - and if she then decides to go back to the intensity of vocational level training at least you will know it is her decision and not just an inability to work out how to get off the treadmill. I often think some DKs who have trained intensively from a young age go on to vocational training simply because its the only thing they've ever known, and it takes massive strength of character to step back and decide you really aren't sure this is what you want. I would see your daughter's doubts as evidence not just of being a bit overwhelmed, but of a really impressive, questioning mind and ability to express her doubts that this is the right path for her. And she certainly won't be able to make that big decision if she's feeling low and exhausted. So whatever happens it sounds like a break to clear her head and regain some energy is a good idea.

 

Also it may be completely left of field but when my DS had a big crisis about continuing vocational training I arranged a couple of sessions with a counsellor, so he could talk through how he was feeling with someone neutral. I know he found it hard to talk to us as he felt so guilty about how much we'd invested in his training and how sad we would be if he gave up (no matter how neutral you try and be you really aren't!). I could see he was having a hard time trying to organise in his head why he was unhappy (was it ballet overall, recent events, wanting a normal life etc etc) that it really helped having an experienced person to bounce his ideas off. Only 2 sessions but the best money I ever spent. So perhaps keep this in your back pocket for if it's needed later on...

 

And be kind to yourself. It's hard to see your child in distress and sometimes you just want it all to go back to how it was before because they were happy at that point. But a crisis for her will also be a bit of a crisis for you because its so difficult and distressing to steer them through it. So give yourself some space and time to think too....

[sarahw]

Cara my gut feeling is that your dd is more at risk of over than under training.

 

It sounds like your dd has had a tough time with injury. We've been there and it's so hard. I definitely agree with the others to let her have a break if that's what she wants and surely it will help the injury? She has a demanding schedule and with growing to do as well it is hard on the body.

 

Also she mentally has to be in the right place and the motivation has to come from her.

 

My dd had 2 periods out with injury age 11 (prolonged) and age 12 (shorter) despite this she successfully got funding age 13 having not done at ages 10 and 11.

 

Her exam result should be seen as a success - often they judge themselves very harshly. What does her teacher think? Maybe she put too much pressure on herself and didn't perform on the day? Seems silly to say that about a child who got distinction! !! And remember if she does want to apply for vocational in the future there is little interest in exams obtained and certainly none in the difference between a high and low distinction!!!

 

Take care x

[Cara in NZ]

I am really touched by the thoughtful, supportive replies, as I felt like the only parent with a kid like this! She hasn't had an acute injury, just two years of on and off knee pain. Finally found a dance physio this year who said she was straining her medial ligaments and started her on a programme to strengthen her VMO, glutes, and work on her alignment. She has seen a vast improvement and hasn't had to sit out of allegro lately, which is encouraging.

Her teachers said her exam result was 'a bit disappointing'. For perspective, the class star and other JA from our school got 98%!!! She is amazing and works extremely hard, but also has a passion and drive that I don't see in my DD (and am slightly grateful as I'm not sure I could cope!).

Thank you, Pictures, Celi, sarah 

[Picturesinthefirelight]

I can't remember dds exact result but it was in the 80's rather than the 90's.

 

RAD exams are only a small small part of a dancers training. Dd finds non syllabus work is often more useful.

[Pas de Quatre]

The early teen years are a time of mental growth as well as physical.  Many students discover that there is a life outside dance.  So give her space.  My DD frequently said, "I don't want to give up ballet, but if I did, could I?"  And I would always reassure her that it was entirely her choice.  She had heard several other girls in her Associate classes/at summer schools etc. say that they wanted to give up but didn't know how to tell their parents. 

 

It may only be a temporary thing, or it may signal a change in priorities.  There is another board similar to this based in USA and some of their very wise teacher/moderators say that it is not a parents job to raise a dancer, but to raise a happy well balanced adult.

[Dance*is*life]

I have to say that I am amazed at hearing of marks in the 90s for Inter!  I find that even my best girls "only" get 75 to 78 and my "star" got 84.  I certainly wouldn't be disappointed in a Distinction at 12, even if it's a low range one.  The marking in general seems to be even tougher than it was in the last three or four years, but anyway I always tell my students that it's not the mark that counts, but the work that they do preparing for the exam. Even if they pass a vocational with a low merit, I see a tremendous improvement in their dancing in class.

 

Exams are very pressurising and often marks surprise us, usuallybecause one girl has more self confidence than another.  Check what marks she got for the various marking divisions and you'll see what she dropped in.  I know it's not the same level and criteria, but in Grade 6 last year a girl who I expected to pass with Distinction didn't and another girl not nearly as good technically beat her by 11 points!  Why? Because her musicality and presentation marks were 10s!  Intermediate is judged very strictly and honestly Distinction at 12 is fantastic and she should be thrilled not disappointed - whatever the others got!

 

I agree with the others that she needs a break and really at her age a summer without dancing is not the end of the world!  These dancing kids are under so much pressure to succeed in everything they do - it must be quite overwhelming sometimes - and most of the time it's their own perfectionism that gets them!  A mother of one of my particularly driven students told me that she is grateful that she is with me - I am apparently the only one of her teachers who encourages without pushing too much and manages to somehow de-pressurise her!  I think it's the Grandma effect actually!

[Lisa O`Brien]

Cara ,the only advice I would give would be to listen to your daughter and be guided by her and what she wants. So many young people when they reach their teens lose interest in dance. I quit for about eight months when I was 15. I was just sick of it. I only auditioned for one school, Urdang, because I knew I would have had no chance of getting in anywhere else. I auditioned , not because I suddenly wanted to become a dancer all over again, but I wanted to experience what it was like living in London. And besides, studying at ballet school every day when I was 16 was preferable to doing some dead end job after leaving school. They were literally the only reasons I auditioned. Ditto, auditioning for professional work. If she wants to pull back on classes for a while, let her. She will soon let you know, i'm sure, if she suddenly becomes desperate to dance for more hours each week again.

Edited October 8, 2016 by Lisa O`Brien

[annaliesey]

Oh dear Cara, sounds like she's feeling the strain a little.

 

I didn't know overtraining was a thing until DD's CAT scheme referred to it.

 

When I mentioned to DD's old dance teachers they basically said it didn't exist in the context of young dancers and only related to older dancers referring to pain/injury/stress/burnout/rejection kind of scenarios.

 

I know since then how wrong they were!

 

I've come to realise our DC's need relaxation, interests and more social stuff outside of dance. My DD and I refer to it as "little girl time".

 

For us, last year, my DD said she missed just dancing for fun. She said that she just felt all her dancing was either not good enough, or being judged and talked about by others, and just that the love of it was overshadowed by the correctedness and technicality of it all.

 

She was struggling with tinnitus too so I don't think that helped. Everyone around just thought she was really confident but she had actually hit a real low with dance. Friends turned out to be a bit tricky too.

 

I let her drop some regular classes and looked for pay-as-you-go that we could do as and when. She just needed a bit of time watching Netflix, baking cakes, and messing about with hair and make up

 

Looking back on it now I can appreciate the pressure she was under at the old dance school as everything was a competition and too many people were ready to take her down a peg or two! (They were their actual words!)

 

I'm not suggesting it's like that at your dance school but there might be things going on that are adding some pressure somewhere along the line.

 

I knew my DD was getting back to her normal self when she started relaxing and doing daft dances on music.ly without caring what people thought but looking back, she did need about 3 months with lesser dance commitments.

 

Your DD's mark is fantastic! Maybe there is a bit of relief too at getting a good mark and just wanting to take a bit of a breather before the next grade. Maybe her knee pain is getting her down too.

 

Good luck

[annaliesey]

... She is amazing and works extremely hard, but also has a passion and drive that I don't see in my DD ... :

Can I just say, and I mean this in the nicest way, to be careful of this. Sometimes people (other dancers or parents or teachers) can give this impression but it's not always a true picture.

 

[Pups_mum]

Cara,your DD must have talent to have been selected for your national associate scheme, and a distinction at intermediate is no mean achievement whatever the mark.There is a big difference between the graded and vocational exams which can come as a shock. I know plenty of girls who have always got very comfortable distinctions in the graded exams who have struggled with the jump to the vocational grades so I think your DD has done very well to gain a distinction,and at a relatively young age too. She should be proud of herself.

But it's easy for us all to see that - probably less so for her. In the future she will probably see things more clearly but right now she is obviously comparing herself unfavourably to her peers and feeling rather low. I would let her take a break if that's what she wants. It's clear she has ability but she needs to be happy too. To take any tough path, whether that's dance or something completely different, I think you need to love it. It's much easier to tolerate the inevitable setbacks and put downs if you really love what you are doing.

Let her take it easy for a while and see what happens. If she rediscovers the joy of dance then other opportunities will no doubt come her way. Perhaps she will prefer to continue to dance "just for fun" or maybe she will want to go back to more "serious" training when she feels refreshed. Or maybe she will decide that it's not for her at all and will find happiness doing something else. But I think that giving her the time and space to discover the answer will help you both.

I hope she feels happier soon.

[Flora]

I agree with all the other replies. My DD took four weeks off dance this summer after a spell in the last academic year feeling low about her abilities and wanting to cut back. She did occasional pilates and class during her time out and she sunbathed swam and went running. It did her the world of good: on returning to 3-4 hours of class a day she really likes what she sees in the mirror/feels great and is loving class again and is thrilled that her "hour of need" (her words) are over. In retrospect she had just got over tired which caused a vicious circle of self doubt. Hope your DD feels better soon

[Cara in NZ]

Wow, just got up on Sunday morning in NZ and found all your wonderful and positive replies. Ballet is so merciless sometimes! I have just told DD that she should have a complete break over summer, just doing her physio and strengthening exercises. She has a big Australasian competition next Easter that she has to do a variation en pointe for, which is slightly terrifying but she's made a start on it. So a break over Dec/Jan and then taking a deep breath to get on with that will do her the world of good, I'm sure. I hadn't read much on this forum about kids going off dance, so am grateful for your honesty about your own experiences. Thanks again!

[TYR]

This reminds me a bit of a close friend whose parents took the exact opposite line in the run-in to A levels. I was allowed to do basically what I liked and mine relied on self motivation. He was practically chained to a desk for months. I got all the As going, he...didn't.

 

What struck me, on the occasions I was able to see him, was that he spent a lot of time staring at his books and just putting in the hours. I didn't have the impression he was getting any benefit from it - a bit like low intensity cardiovascular training, it uses time for not much impact but at least it looks like work.

 

Yeah, take a break, read a book. Then get back in and kill it. Don't waste your time pretending to train, if you will, whatever you're doing. Intensity is great, and it goes with rest or variety.

[alison]

I've come to realise our DC's need relaxation, interests and more social stuff outside of dance. My DD and I refer to it as "little girl time".

[...] Maybe her knee pain is getting her down too.

 

I suspect that most young women need some of your "little girl time" these days.  I'm sure the pressure they're under to grow up, and to grow up fast, can't be good for them in the long run.

And don't discount the cumulative effect of something like joint pain, either.  Perhaps the actual injury may have been cured, but it may take rather longer for her actually to believe she can trust the knee again.

 

To take any tough path, whether that's dance or something completely different, I think you need to love it. It's much easier to tolerate the inevitable setbacks and put downs if you really love what you are doing.

 

Absolutely.  Anything which requires you to put in all that work, all that tedious repetition and so on, needs to be loved to be worth doing.  I know of so many dancers, sportspeople and so on who have said that - and many of them have had enforced breaks due to illness/injury which have only clarified whether or not they want to take their chosen option seriously.  For some, it's only reinforced their passion for it, but for others it's a chance to get off the treadmill and go "Wait a minute ...".  Either's fine

 

What struck me, on the occasions I was able to see him, was that he spent a lot of time staring at his books and just putting in the hours. I didn't have the impression he was getting any benefit from it - a bit like low intensity cardiovascular training, it uses time for not much impact but at least it looks like work.

 

Hmm, that rings bells, too.  Putting in the hours, but being less and less effective.

 

Cara, from what you've said it does sound to me as though a break would do her good.  A chance to re-engage with real life, smell the proverbial roses and so on, just sit back and daydream, or whatever.  Children (and adults) these days seem to fill every waking hour with busyness, and it's not necessarily good for us.

[Cara in NZ]

Cara, from what you've said it does sound to me as though a break would do her good.  A chance to re-engage with real life, smell the proverbial roses and so on, just sit back and daydream, or whatever.  Children (and adults) these days seem to fill every waking hour with busyness, and it's not necessarily good for us.

 

Thanks Alison – that's a good summary. It's been a really rapid acceleration for her: age 10 she was happily coasting as one of the oldest in Grade 3 (3 classes a week), then was moved up to Int Found last year (6 classes a week), and this year has had 9-10 classes a week. She did a lot of work on 'catching up' last year because of missing Grade 4 & 5, but this year I think it has possibly all caught up with her. And I suspect a lot of her exam mark was about the maddening 'confidence' element!

[alison]

Moving from "happily coasting" to something rather tougher can of course be another source of disenchantment/disillusionment.

[Dance*is*life]

I think it's important that they have some fun dancing classes too and not just ballet technique and exams. That is not to say that ballet can't be fun - on the contrary! It's just that it's really important for all students to remember that they dance because they enjoy it and come what may that enjoyment should stay with them always.

Edited October 9, 2016 by Dance*is*life

[Cara in NZ]

I think it's important that they have some fun dancing classes too and not just ballet technique and exams. That is not to say that ballet can't be fun - on the contrary! It's just that it's really important for all students to remember that they dance because they enjoy it and come what may that enjoyment should stay with them always.

 

Absolutely! At our dance school they work on exam work for three terms, then the last term (Oct to Dec) they work on show items. This year they are doing some of the choreo themselves, which is a great idea!

 

I do agree about the 'fun' part too. And I've also realised that losing her beloved private lesson teacher after 2.5 years has also been difficult for her this year. Not just a teacher but a mentor and cheerleader, who took a genuine interest in supporting and encouraging her. It's all been a bit piecemeal since then, but I think I have found a possible replacement who is equally kind but tough – a combination that works for my DD!