ToThePointe Posted December 10, 2015 Share Posted December 10, 2015 (edited) I think this topic has been discussed before but I find it so interesting that I wanted to raise debate and find out what everyone else thinks! I wrote a piece for my blog (please see link below) sort of as an open letter for choreographers to address current affairs more in their work. Did we really need to see another re-working of Carmen? Are there any ballets out there that address themes that resonate with our world today? If not, why?! http://tothepointemagazine.wix.com/tothepointemagazine http://tothepointemagazine.wix.com/tothepointemagazine#!Why-Ballet-Needs-To-Get-With-The-Times/cmbz/566870bf0cf20ee65add6223 Edited December 10, 2015 by ToThePointe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAB Posted December 10, 2015 Share Posted December 10, 2015 Dated concept. Norman Morris was setting ballets in tube stations back in the 1960's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sim Posted December 10, 2015 Share Posted December 10, 2015 Just because the concept has been addressed before does not mean it is still not relevant for discussion today, when themes and world politics have moved on from the times of Norman Morrice. I don't think it is 'dated' at all. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwissBalletFan Posted December 10, 2015 Share Posted December 10, 2015 I would say argue that Matthew Bourne is providing ballet/dance that resonates with popular culture of today. His vampires for sleeping beauty being one example of taking what is popular in other areas of 'culture' and bringing them to the stage. If you mean the troubles or themes of today, then I think that the issues have always been the same since forever in general. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sim Posted December 10, 2015 Share Posted December 10, 2015 The themes may be the same, but not necessarily the issues. In any case, whether they are the same or not, the point the TtP is making that perhaps it is time for ballet choreographers to address some of the issues we face in the 21st century. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToThePointe Posted December 10, 2015 Author Share Posted December 10, 2015 Setting a ballet in a tube station doesn't exactly mean it addresses current issues or themes. It just means that it's set in the present day. I'm talking about choreography that hones in on themes that grip our world such as obsession with celebrity culture, immigration, religion, crime etc... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colman Posted December 10, 2015 Share Posted December 10, 2015 Since the issues we face now seem to be pretty much 1930s+Climate change, I'm not sure what an abstract art form can do … Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Mallinson Posted December 10, 2015 Share Posted December 10, 2015 Isn't it more about what a narrative or semi-narrative (rather than abstract) art form could do? The modern dance world applies itself quite often to contemporary life. Has there been anything such at the RB since The Judas Tree in 1992? (Even that, though set in modern times, could be considered an allegory and timeless.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwissBalletFan Posted December 10, 2015 Share Posted December 10, 2015 I would say that ballet as an art form, has been responsible for many discussions and pushing topics further than before. Regarding the sexuality of dancers, the politics of the bolshoi, the recriminations of not being chosen, acid attacks, espionage, etc.. I think this could be why hollywood and film makers are generally more interested in what happens behind the curtain than in front of it. In Zürich Sleeping Beauty by Mats Ek is about a Junkie, which i guess was modern for its time and particularly a topic of discussion in Zurich at the time. You mention, I don't think we will see 'Kardashian the Ballet', well we have our Kim Kardashian of the Ballet in Misty Copeland, and by this its not a race thing...it is where the promotion, press, agents, marketing, and celebrity have meant that Misty Copeland is the name on the lips of all americans as the 'best ballet dancer', and her shows are sold out. New books, films, TV shows, and all that Jazz, just not much of quality in dancing. If anyone thinks that 'the Misty Effect' or Misty herself is promoting or helping ballet in general rather than herself, then I suggest they look a bit closer to the engines at work. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Mallinson Posted December 10, 2015 Share Posted December 10, 2015 Forgot about Jonathan Watkins whose As One addressed modern themes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToThePointe Posted December 10, 2015 Author Share Posted December 10, 2015 I agree John about the Judas Tree, can't say I've seen a ballet about gang rape since then! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAB Posted December 10, 2015 Share Posted December 10, 2015 Modern dance sometimes addresses contemporary themes with varying degrees of success. Ballets such as Ghost Dances and Swan Song showed us people oppressed by politics, still topical in my opinion. Is there a choreographer around that would want to do a ballet on global warming? Is there an audience out there prepared to watch a ballet about global warming? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToThePointe Posted December 10, 2015 Author Share Posted December 10, 2015 I don't think art should have to cater for whether or not an audience is 'prepared'. If it did, we wouldn't have half of the amazing ballets, paintings, music that we have today. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alison Posted December 10, 2015 Share Posted December 10, 2015 Making a ballet "about" something and actually "addressing" an issue may of course be two totally different things. One may simply show, whereas the other one discusses - hopefully. Was it Cathy Marston who made a piece in the Linbury a decade or so ago about migrants? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aileen Posted December 10, 2015 Share Posted December 10, 2015 A great topic. I've noticed how often new ballets are based on old works of literature. There's Frankenstein coming up at the RB and NB has recently commissioned 1984. McGregor did of course base Raven Girl on a newly written fairy tale, which was about identity and belonging. It was a great idea but the end result was not an unqualified success. The two big issues currently facing us are migration and terrorism. Would any choreographer be bold (brave?) enough to create a work about one of these issues? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToThePointe Posted December 10, 2015 Author Share Posted December 10, 2015 Exactly my point Aileen. I think it's time that ballet reflected the times more. Why shouldn't terrorism be a subject matter for a ballet? Also I've yet to see a same sex relationship explored through a ballet apart from Scarlett's 'Age of Anxiety' and that was clutching at straws a bit... (Bourne's all male swan-lake doesn't count!!) 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colman Posted December 10, 2015 Share Posted December 10, 2015 Why doesn't Bourne's Swan Lake count? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aileen Posted December 10, 2015 Share Posted December 10, 2015 Yes, it strikes me that 'bold' in ballet generally means contortion and extreme extensions in the choreography and peculiar costumes rather than challenging subject matter. It is a rather conservative art form compared with most other art forms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colman Posted December 10, 2015 Share Posted December 10, 2015 What would a ballet about terrorism look like? Or one about migration? Or one about a same sex romantic relationship? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToThePointe Posted December 10, 2015 Author Share Posted December 10, 2015 Who knows, that's why we need a choreographer to step up to the barre and show us! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToThePointe Posted December 10, 2015 Author Share Posted December 10, 2015 And I discounted Bourne's Swan Lake because I'm really adressing human same sex relationships without allegory and myth. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colman Posted December 10, 2015 Share Posted December 10, 2015 Ballet as prose? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwissBalletFan Posted December 10, 2015 Share Posted December 10, 2015 Who knows, that's why we need a choreographer to step up to the barre and show us! Why not give it a go yourself? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sim Posted December 10, 2015 Share Posted December 10, 2015 I think, Swiss Ballet Fan, that it would be a bit difficult to choreograph a ballet when you are not a choreographer, just as it would be a bit difficult to dance Swan Lake if you weren't a ballet dancer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colman Posted December 10, 2015 Share Posted December 10, 2015 Come to think of it, didn't Bourne's Swan Lake throw in commentary on celebrity too? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToThePointe Posted December 10, 2015 Author Share Posted December 10, 2015 I'm not quite ready for that type of career change just yet SwissBalletFan... 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capybara Posted December 10, 2015 Share Posted December 10, 2015 Matthew Hart's ballet Dances with Death was about AIDS. He has spoken of the his struggle as a young, inexperienced choreographer to get this work on stage and reviews were very (shall we say, 'mixed') but it certainly spoke loudly about a contemporary concern in the 1990s. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwissBalletFan Posted December 10, 2015 Share Posted December 10, 2015 (edited) I think, Swiss Ballet Fan, that it would be a bit difficult to choreograph a ballet when you are not a choreographer, just as it would be a bit difficult to dance Swan Lake if you weren't a ballet dancer. I agree that it could be the case, however in terms of suggesting a choreographer 'step up to the barre and show us' is a little bit too easy, especially when a whole forum can talk about whether the Gypsies in 2 Pigeons is racist, or of an 'older' time. In my view the OP is saying, why isn't it the case? and 'Does Ballet Need to get with the Times?' I think you only need to spend a very brief time on the pages of this forum to know that modern ballet is contentious enough for the watchers. In a world where people have been killed for a cartoon, comedians don't comment on Islam etc, I am lost to why a non-verbal art form should in anyway attempt to tackle such a complicated matter. I feel it is better that people read a newspaper, study the complex matters behind all of these issues before going to watch a person in a leotard (with tights....of course you can't subject the audience to a badly lit exposure of body parts) that is white (otherwise its clearly racist), to evoke feelings about terrorism. This is the key point, the art has to ADD something to the discussion, what can dance add to this?) I for the life of me wouldn't know, or listen to the fallout. My comment was not as flippant as I made out, I watch Young Choreographers t Ballet Zurich where the dancers themselves create choreography, and there were some very nice pieces by a young dancer about the practices of interrogation and observation in the modern world, and so I would think that if this is an idea the OP has, they can create it. A 'choreographer' is someone who creates art, and it can take all forms of expression. Come to think of it, I have just created a choreography in my head about today's modern society called 'Politcally Correct Ballet about Terrorism and Migration' Where a dancer stands in the middle of the stage dancing then 'undoing the moves' going back to the start, then trying some other mdances moves and then going back to the same spot. Because any movement, and intention, and action will be interpreted and be contentious, so sometimes its better to undo, or leave it unsaid. The choreography steps represent my keys on the keyboard about what I would like to say with my post, but even then words and questions about this subject, but they get deleted, because well....it just isn't politically correct. Now where do I collect my Benois de la dance award? Edited December 10, 2015 by SwissBalletFan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jan McNulty Posted December 10, 2015 Share Posted December 10, 2015 Forgot about Jonathan Watkins whose As One addressed modern themes. 1984 is timeless and as relevant today as when it was written. Perhaps that could be a way of addressing some current issues. Modern dance sometimes addresses contemporary themes with varying degrees of success. Ballets such as Ghost Dances and Swan Song showed us people oppressed by politics, still topical in my opinion. Is there a choreographer around that would want to do a ballet on global warming? Is there an audience out there prepared to watch a ballet about global warming? Again both Ghost Dances and Swan Song are still (sadly) relevant to issues within the world today. Christopher Bruce also choreographed Land about the then military junta in Poland. Not quite global warming but David Bintley's Still Life at the Penguin Cafe was about the extinction of species. Exactly my point Aileen. I think it's time that ballet reflected the times more. Why shouldn't terrorism be a subject matter for a ballet? Also I've yet to see a same sex relationship explored through a ballet apart from Scarlett's 'Age of Anxiety' and that was clutching at straws a bit... (Bourne's all male swan-lake doesn't count!!) Same sex relationship - David Nixon's Swan Lake for Northern Ballet! I think many of the choreographers of the 20th century have looked to the present or recent past. I'm thinking of works like Tudor's Echoing of Trumpets and Jooss' Green Table. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunrise Posted December 10, 2015 Share Posted December 10, 2015 (edited) Maybe ballet has too many limitations - pointe shoes, turn out, ballet positions, music. We are used to seeing ballet expressed in a world of fantasy and to convey romanticism. And it's not always done very successfully - the number of choreographers that have produced what might be considered great or timeless work is very small. I think audiences may, as a result, have built a kind of stubbornness or resistance to any change. Maybe modern and contemporary dance by comparison have so much more freedom of expression that choreographers can be more adventurous, so that current issues can be addressed readily and audiences in turn are very receptive? I like the point that art shouldn't have to cater for audiences. I think that maybe these kind of issues are best done through exploring personal relationships within that context. Or maybe done quite abstractly? I'd be very interested to see how a choreographer might tackle migration, terrorism or climate change through these prisms. My problem is that I'm so often disappointed by new choreography, choice of music or the disconnect between the two in new ballets these days, I think any interesting message may be lost. Edited to correct typo. Edited December 10, 2015 by Sunrise 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taxi4ballet Posted December 10, 2015 Share Posted December 10, 2015 The two big issues currently facing us are migration and terrorism. Would any choreographer be bold (brave?) enough to create a work about one of these issues? Can't say I'd be first in the queue for tickets if they did - sounds rather grim and depressing. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToThePointe Posted December 10, 2015 Author Share Posted December 10, 2015 I am lost to why a non-verbal art form should in anyway attempt to tackle such a complicated matter. This very comment makes my heart sink. Art should absolutely tackle such matters! Music, painting, installation, dance and movement are all ways that 'complicated' matters can be explored. Perhaps reading such matters in the newspaper isn't enough to broaden awareness or create change and perhaps it is a 'non-verbal art form' that could do this. It's also a great way to reach out to a younger audience and to a generation that don't always read and who respond well to technology and visual mediums. Imagine if we all had the view that art shouldn't push boundaries and tackle some of the most difficult issues challenging our society - we would be without some of the most pivotal and important artists that have graced our Earth! 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToThePointe Posted December 10, 2015 Author Share Posted December 10, 2015 Come to think of it, I have just created a choreography in my head about today's modern society called 'Politcally Correct Ballet about Terrorism and Migration' The choreography steps represent my keys on the keyboard about what I would like to say with my post, but even then words and questions about this subject, but they get deleted, because well....it just isn't politically correct. Also I'm not sure where all of the political correctness is coming from... I haven't mentioned it and I'm not sure anyone else has on this thread. I haven't said anywhere that I want to see PC ballet, in fact, please, save the PC dance for the PG audience. Islam, race, aids, rape...whatever it is, I'd watch it because I'd support a choreographer using dance as a medium to discuss these issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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