Too much too soon?

[Babyballerina]

My little girl is 7, just in year 3,  and has been dancing since Dec 14.  The teachers say she has a talent and she is just about to take ISTD grade 1,  She does Modern as well.  The principal of the dance school has put her into inter foundation ballet class too.  We are new to the dance world, my husband races motorbikes!  All of this is very confusing as she has different ballet teachers for ISTD and Inter foundation.  The inter foundation teacher says she is more than capable as does the principal but the ISTD teacher says he will get hurt and she is too young.  My LO is hyper mobile though to what extent we are unsure as this is from the principal of the school not a medic.  Are they taking things too fast to soon.  Does anyone have any experience of this with a child so young?  Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Anna C]

Welcome to the forum, Babyballerina. :-)

 

Many ballet dancers and ballet students have hypermobile joints, and as long as they work hard to strengthen the ligaments surrounding the lax joints, it doesn't have to be a problem. Hypermobile students can have reduced propriorception - a difficulty in "feeling" for themselves which muscles are engaging - but if the teacher has taught hypermobile students before, she will be aware of this and know the best way of explaining things.

 

I must admit that in RAD ballet, age 7 is young to be starting Inter Foundation. I'm not sure how ISTD compares but in our local RAD school, the students are invited into Ballet Development class first, aged on average about 8 or 9; this is a sort of pre-Inter Foundation class for talented students. Then they progress to Inter Foundation and study the syllabus for at least 18 months, doing the pointework element last.

 

Could you ask for more detail regarding the syllabus covered in the Inter Foundation class? From an outsider point of view it does seem as if 7 is very young but if it's more of a pre-Inter Foundation preparation class it may be perfectly fine.

[Pups_mum]

Welcome to the forum.

I'm just a mum, and claim no particular expertise, but I would advise caution.

My daughter does RAD ballet, but I don't imagine ISTD will be hugely different. There is a big difference between grade 1 and inter foundation and I am not sure how well your little girl would manage the more advanced class without a good grounding in the technique learned in the lower grades. At 7 I would think she would be better off concentrating on the basics and developing strength and core stability as well as learning the vocabulary and improving her knowledge and understanding before moving onto the more more advanced work.

Another possible issue is that, assuming the ISTD rules are similar to RAD, she won't be able to take the inter foundation exam until she is about 11, so there is the very real possibility of her getting bored if she stays in that class for that length of time. I would also consider the social aspects. How old are the other students in that class? If they are all a lot older she may feel quite isolated and not enjoy it. Particularly at just 7 years of age, the most important thing is that she is having fun, and whilst being accelerated into a more advanced class may seem exciting at the moment, if she doesn't have friends in the class and maybe finds it hard to keep up with the older students, that fun element may be lost.

As I am sure the parents on here whose children are at full time vocational schools will confirm, there is no real advantage to rushing to reach an advanced level too soon. The full time schools select on potential rather than attainment and take all their new Year 7's back to basics anyway. If your daughter does end up pursuing a career in ballet she will be better served by getting the basics right than going too fast and possibly ending up with "bad habits" that need to be corrected later, so you needn't worry that it will harm her in anyway if you choose to take things more slowly.

[sarahw]

Hi

I agree with both of the above. Good luck - it can be very confusing to non dancing parents to work out these issues. Especially when you are getting conflicting advice from within the same school.....

Edited September 23, 2015 by sarahw

[Lisa O`Brien]

Hello Babyballerina and welcome from me too. Nothing more to add,other than I agree completely with what others have said so far.

[spooky]

I agree with everything said above however it might be that although the class is called inter-foundation the title may be misleading. In my dds old school pupils were invited to join the inter-foundation class from around grade 3 which if i remember correctly (it was over 10 years ago now) was about age 8/9 but it was quite usual to remain in this class for 3 or 4 years before taking the exam and most of the class concentrated on strengthening exercises and building on basic technique outside of the syllabus. If a pupil was then felt ready to take the exam they were required to attend an extra 'exam class' in addition. So I would advise finding out as much as you can about this class from the teacher before making any decision. If you feel you dont have enough knowledge yet could the ISTD teacher voice her concerns (diplomatically) directly to the other teacher as one to professional to another as surely they both just want the best for your dd.

[drdance]

Hi, I don't have much to add to this and agree with everything people are saying PARTICULARLY if she is hypermobile it is really important not to be pushing her too soon. It has already been described brilliantly by Anna C so I won't repeat it but strengthening basic technique is vital. There's plenty of time to learn harder things and glitzy tricks and skills later on but at an early age I would recommend spending time on the basics.

[Babyballerina]

A big thanks for all your advice , every point brought up has been most helpfull . What started out as a  bit of extra curricula activity for our daughter has got slightly out of hand . Whilst we initially looked on it as just fun for our daughter it quickly became apparent she actually does have potential to take things a lot further which is when things became complicated ! Whilst the other parents where at first friendly enough it soon became apparent that the majority see it as some sort of competition to achieve grades etc at the earliest possible age and seem to have lost sight of the fact that the main priority is children dancing and having fun . Within a couple of lessons the principle of the school informed us of her excitement at our daughters ability and took it upon herself to arrange private tuition at the expense of the school which again is very flattering but once the pushy parents found out it has led to more complications . Our daughter has the ability to pick up moves in an instant and thus has outgrown her age group by some margin which is both good and bad as it gets her away from the bitchiness  which was gathering momentum but now she is in with 13 year olds who also see her as a threat ! It seems  we were looking through rose tinted spectacles when we first started , fortunately our daughter is pretty thick skinned ! She has been doing full on inter foundation and finds it more fun than the basic lessons and is still picking up technique in a couple of goes , however , we do worry at the severity of some of the moves on her dainty little joints . All her teachers are very highly qualified and we have total faith in what they are doing ,we just feel they are maybe a little too enthusiastic to bring her on as early as possible as she is also doing an associate scheme which again she seems to take in her stride with ease but again we cant help but worry about those skinny little limbs ! Our 9 yr old daughter competes in athletics and the boundaries seem far more defined with regards growth , age , ability and level of exercise . Again any views would be greatly appreciated .

[2dancersmum]

I would just urge a little caution - the ability to pick up moves quickly is not the same as building up a solid technique or building up the strength to do the moves properly and without injury.  I think you probably do need to have a little chat with the teacher of the inter-foundation class and find out if it is indeed a sort of 'preparation for inter-foundation' style class.  I'm not familiar with ISTD and if they have minimum ages but if it is similar to the RAD then your DD will be in that class a long time and may well get bored and that is without the consideration of pointe work.  It would be a shame if she lost interest because she was pushed too hard too early.

[taxi4ballet]

Hi Babyballerina, you are right in wanting the best for your dd and to be concerned about her possibly overdoing things. If she is on an associate programme, I wonder whether you could perhaps talk to the associate teacher and ask them for guidance and advice.

 

As others have said, some of the work in Inter Foundation is fairly technically challenging, and is designed for students who have reached a particular stage of maturity in their bones and joints, and who have also developed the physical core strength to be able to do the exercises correctly without hurting themselves. For those who are hypermobile, it is also much better to concentrate on strengthening exercises rather than stretching ones.

[youngatheart]

ISTD Inter Foundation does indeed have a minimum age limit of 11 years to take the exam, and is at least as demanding if not more so than the RAD version, certainly in terms of stamina (although there is a greater emphasis on unset combinations of syllabus steps) and also includes more pointe work than RAD.

 

You can find the syllabus here: (pages 34-38):

 

http://www.istd.org/documents/imperial-classical-ballet-syllabus-outline-2014/

 

IMO it would have been better to let her advance through the Grades quicker (maybe spending a term or two in each) rather than moving her straight up to IF, otherwise as others have said she will be so bored by the time she is old enough to do the exam. (Even if she then moves up to Intermediate, the age limit for that is 12, and that one is compulsory to advance further. There is also the pointe work issue to consider (what has the teacher said about that?)

[ParentTaxi]

Just as a comparison, as DD will take her ISTD Interfoundation this term, she is 12, and has worked through Grades Pre-primary all the way up through to Grade 6 before doing it.

 

To be fair, at her school - highly reputable, long established ISTD-only school - pupils usually do Grade 6 OR Interfoundation, as they are considered to be of equivalent standard. However, since DD's cohort is quite young, in the school's opinion, to be doing the IF exam, it was felt that they should do both in order to consolidate technique and improve stamina and strength at a point when the majority of them (they are all 12 or 13) are growing very rapidly.

 

All have been doing pointe since they passed Grade 4, so at least 5 terms - 2 years of pointe work prior to IF. All do 4 hours of ballet a week, alongside e.g. solo lessons, group work and other genres.

 

And DDs cohort are, though recreational dancers, quite serious and of a good standard - several have been finalists in the ISTD ballet awards for each grade every year. As others have said, I'm not sure that this particular acceleration is a good idea, however talented the child.

[ParentTaxi]

DD is also highly hypermobile, and has to work very hard to keep her joints in appropriate positions. She was injured earlier this year as a result, so do take care of that.

[Dance*is*life]

We had an exceptional child who joined our school when he was 6 3/4.  We intended putting him in Primary or Grade 1, but were totally gobstopped when at the audition, he joined in the Grade 3 class, with girls two years older, and did it perfectly!   He stayed with that group and went up through the grades with a new one each year keeping him challenged. Eventually he got 95 for Grade 7 at 11 and then went to live in the States with his family, where he entered the YAGP at just 12 and came 6th overall for the 12-14 boys group. 

 

I write all this just to say that indeed there are exceptional children, but even so their age must be taken into consideration from the point of view of both maturity and physical development.   Even though the young man above was a phenomena, he was also a rather hyper-active little boy, so we actually didn't enter him for exams until Grade 5, when he was 9 - behaviour wise he just wasn't ready before then.  I agree with the others that pushing your daughter too far and too fast may not be the best thing for her in the long-run, especially when she can't take IF until she is 11 and anyway she shouldn't start pointe work until the appropriate age. 

 

It is also very difficult, as you have already discovered, from a social point of view.  7 year olds are never going to be proper friends with teenagers and it is clear that there will be resentment.  We often have a range of three years in the same class, but never more than that, because it is not good for the atmosphere in the class.  In our school it is quite usual to find that the group is closely knit outside of ballet too, even if they're not in the same regular school.  They invite their ballet friends to birthday parties and often meet up to practise together or just "hang out".  For that reason I would never allow a 7 year old, however gifted, to join a level that was made up of girls 6 years older than her.   

Edited September 25, 2015 by Dance*is*life

[Babyballerina]

Thank you all so much for all of your comments.  I have spoken at length with the principal of the school and she has said that dd is more than capable and that they will be using the time for strengthening her muscles and working on core strength.  However after speaking to her istd ballet teacher, she is not at all happy but said she doesnt want to get involved,  I can understand this as the principal and the interfoundation teacher are on board with dd doing inter foundation and she is the one saying it isn't a good idea.  Pointe work has not yet been discussed properly although when dd looked longingly at the older girls pointe shoes she was told it wont be long!  We have decided after reading all of your post and messages to stop inter foundation and let her concentrate on ISTD and more importantly to have fun.  So thank you all once again your advice has been invaluable.

[Anon2]

The comment about pointe shoes 'won't be long' would have had me running for the hills with a 7 year old!

I hope you dd continues to enjoy her ISTD classes. There is no rush if she is talented and has the facility but she will need a passion that pushing too early could kill.