Neverdancedjustamum

Whilst I cannot comment from recent experience, I did see a recent list and noticed a vast majority have been in at least one (usually more) previous production. I don’t think it’s just you who noticed this too. Sadly, when I clocked this a few years ago, it didn’t really persuade me to take my DD to audition so it’s probably our loss but it’s hard not to see that it’s usually a lot of the same young dancers (who are brilliant btw so fair play to them).

I wondered about this too because I remember one year I knew quite a lot of those who started were already from private schools and able to afford a lot of training prior to auditioning. Without knowing how it all works, I would assume families like that won’t be eligible for much (if any) MDS funding? In which case there must be some year groups for which not much MDS funding needed.

It’s just a shame because if we are to think of RBS and where it is, and when I think of other similarly top ranked vocational schools overseas, for the latter’s case international students seem to normally only join in the final 1-2 years of the training. Not all, but most I have in mind with the exception of Princess Grace whose student body is extremely international but then Monaco is such a small place. This means that their graduating classes are often still predominantly nationals of the country where the school is located.

Those are quite shocking stats @Tiaramum. I guess with the new system RBS can, in theory, actually replace existing year groups with entirely new cohorts of students. They probably won’t as this won’t reflect well on their training for the first 3 years and I actually think that now a lot of people are aware of the stats you mentioned above, plus the number of British students they invited to finals last year for non-Year 7 places, I’m willing to bet WL will invite more British applicants to finals this year (though I’m not sure if they will care about possible backlash or parent discussions such as this). I also don’t think this will affect the number of applications they receive for Year 7, which seems to be more and more every year, nor would it affect the number of applications they receive for entry into years 8 and 9 even thought technically there won’t be any places in those years if those who start at Year 7 are assured the first 3 years of their training. Slightly unrelated but I saw a recent Instagram post of an overseas young dancer who is about to embark on a ‘short term’ scholarship at RBS. I do wonder how the attendance of these international dancers, who I assume suddenly just join classes, affect how existing WL students feel especially if they join Year 9 classes when it’s such a crucial year in terms of staying on further with the school.

I’m sure it will be fine as they’re all assessed/ looked at during the same audition class. I remember the year we applied we only applied because a lot of those in DDs school were applying so thought we might as well just for the experience of being able to dance in such lovely studios. The group she was with on the day had amazingly lovely and formidable looking young dancers, most in their RBS associates tracksuits. My DD had a cheap leotard on, no belt, with a low bun. After the class we had completely forgotten about the application until a few months later when my friend told me results were out. There was no one more shocked than my daughter when she was offered an MA place, not ever being in the RBS system previously. Up until her uniform arrived, she thought I was pranking her.

I think the numbers are quite variable and the process has changed in the last few years. I don’t know much about it from personal experience but my DC is an associate in London. There are very few in the class who weren’t previously JAs (I’d say less than a quarter), but those who weren’t were all in the finals for White Lodge.

I can’t see anything wrong with this and although not for upper school, I’ve seen this done in auditions for lower school. What I find a bit odd is when young dancers wear their full associates uniform (tracksuit and all) to auditions not related to that school’s associate scheme. My DD and noticed this in various auditions and intensives - in particular students of a specific associates scheme. Perhaps it is like a badge of pride but doesn’t make sense to us especially if the audition, for example, is for other schools.

They appear to have different guest teachers every year which I believe is part of the whole experience and appeal of it. Some return year after year, such as Vadim who I think has taught it a few years but not every year. I don’t think it was ever marketed as Daria and Vadim’s intensive as such. Over the years, even without experience of it personally, I found it to be one of the most ‘transparent’ courses/intensives as an outside observer. During the two weeks, they would often have live streams of the actual classes, post videos and photos of the classes, and their website has a very informative (quite humorous) blog every year that gives an insight into the day to day operations of the course. Lots of photos and videos on the website as well. As a parent who rarely sees their DC in class especially since the pandemic, it’s quite nice to have a look into what happens during these classes, especially since a lot of the photos and videos are taken during class candidly, not posed or rehearsed. My DC and I have always admired the dancers who attend this intensive based on the stuff we’ve seen online and were pleased to see Daria starting a junior course this year. The standard of the existing programme seems very high and I’ve seen some students progress soon after to companies (I believe some who attend in the past are already in companies/junior companies). It sometimes looks daunting especially for those not in full time vocational schools as it’s usually attended by RBS upper school students, POBS and I’ve also seen some from Dutch National Ballet Company, ABT Studio Co etc.

Letters of acceptance for this came out today via email. Very exciting! My DD and I have always loved watching the videos posted on their socials, such high standard. Now to convince the whole family that this is the summer holiday destination they‘ve always wanted to visit…

I believe the YAGP also has masterclasses but I think the main difference (apart from minimum age) is that PdL candidates have already been pre-selected. Anyone can register for the YAGP and perform and be seen on those YouTube livestreams. I believe the PdL selection process is a lot more rigorous in that only a select few actually get chosen after video application or summer intensive pre-selection to travel to Lausanne and participate. A lot of PdL candidates seem to have done YAGP previously already. And I’ve seen many young dancers scoop numerous prizes and scholarships at the YAGP and not even reach the finals of the PdL.

If I’m not mistaken, Grace Carroll also went to Paris Opera Ballet School, for at least a year from what I can remember. This might have been off the back of YAGP, but I could be wrong. I’m fairly certain she went to POBS for a year and then on to RBS for only a year too. That’s why I remember reading somewhere on this forum that RBS don’t recruit for final year of upper school but I can certainly think of a good number who have done that before and so whilst they ‘graduated’ from RBS, I would question whether their training is actually ‘RBS’ as a whole since they were only there for a relatively short time. Quite a number get assessed out of second year.

To get to that level, where someone who isn’t in full time vocational school would be competitive enough to gain a place in the top schools and able to participate in YAGP/PdL, the financial and time commitment would be staggering. As far as I am aware of those I’ve seen gain places in top schools (beyond year 7) or were able to participate in international competitions, you would need serious finances and time. Private coaching in London, with teachers who have a track record for these things, would often be upwards of £65 an hour (more along the lines of £85-£125) with studio fee on top (cheapest for Pineapple/Danceworks would be £35+). There are dance schools that advertise ‘vocational training’ hours so one can stay at home but to even get hours similar to those in full time would still cost a fair bit every term (minimum 10 hours/week) - that’s on top of privates, studio fees, physio sessions, associates, the list is endless. These top coaches would often only have weekday availability, often in central London, and have long waitlists. Those I know who are serious about getting a place (beyond year 7), had to consider home schooling just to get the hours in. I know a lot would say it is possible to get year 10 or upper school place even if your DC is not full time but I personally believe this would very much depend on WHICH school you want and what competition you’d like to participate in. The last two British PdL candidates I am aware of were privately coached. Just to put it into a modest perspective, I’d say 10+ hours in these dance schools that specialise in vocational training is likely to cost almost £1k a term, even if someone does once a week private, that will be around £400 a month if in London with studio fees (not counting transport costs), associates will be around £300 a term (for one associates, and this is a prudent approximate - most do more than one associates scheme), physio at minimum £50 a session (I heard it’s more £100 for specialised dance physio). This is not sustainable for most, especially given the current economic climate. That’s why I think ballet at its highest level here in the U.K. is becoming more elite and is only accessible to those who can afford it. In my world, not everyone can easily afford a 2-week intensive that would be around £2k for one child alone - or go overseas with a child for intensives abroad. In addition, not a lot of parents have the time to just accompany their DC around to ballet classes, unless they don’t work or own their businesses which gives time flexibility.

Bloch, Dancia, Freed and Capezio are all very near each other in Covent Garden. Don’t feel shy to ask them to put on hold ‘possible’ pointe shoes for you after the fitting, as you go around the other shops to try on shoes there. They are used to this and totally understand. You’ll want to make sure you get the best fit for your DD so it’s worth it going around these shops for fitting, as many as you can. I know that some get swayed by a certain brand that certain vocational school(s) use and would therefore only go to that particular shop without trying on shoes at others. It’s often very obvious when these shoes don’t fit well. Dancia is the only one where you can try different brands BUT in our experience, when the fitter found out it was my DD’s first pointe shoe fitting, she only let her try on a couple: Bloch and Grishko. She said they were the only ones suitable as first pointe shoes. This could have been just that particular fitter but I felt like she limited our choice and subsequent fittings there always felt a bit rushed. I’ve always had wonderful experience with Bloch and Capezio, both take the time to fit regardless of how many pairs or styles it would take. All Freed styles do not suit my DD’s feet so I don’t have much experience of them in relation to pointe shoes (but they have great customer service overall). This is just our personal experience and I’m sure others might have different.

I think sometimes an overseas student is offered a place but do not want to leave their families at such a young age especially if they live abroad. The other cases I’ve heard of just chose to train with their current dance school if their school offers quality training and hours. I think the influx of international students happens more in the higher years when they’re a bit older and perhaps more ready to live away from their families. I bet the ratio of local students:international students at year 7 compared to Year 11 (and also upper school) is vastly different. With local students I know in the past places have been turned down as parents didn’t want to risk the stress the child might face of constantly having the possibility of being assessed out hovering over them. I guess this has been eased with the new structure. The first major stress will just be after 3 years.

I think it’s very rare for an RBS offer to be turned down, despite knowing full well the offer is only for the first 3 years (or in the past, until you pass assessments). It’s rare, but not unheard of. In the last few years I’ve heard/seen of a handful - I can think of only one instance this year where an offer holder opted to go elsewhere. It rarely happens and so in this very small ballet world, it always comes as a bit of a shock to everyone who hears of it and people tend to remember them more (from what I’ve personally observed).

I noticed that too, in particular for Years 10 and 11. I can’t even recall if they accepted any British students last year who aren’t for Year 7 (years 8-11). I think it was a couple of years ago they last offered places to British students who aren’t year 7 and I can only think of two. I could be wrong though.

I thought the same although I did notice a very slight increase in YAGP candidates from the U.K. recently. PdL I only recall 2 British candidates in the last couple of years or so. Oddly enough even those from vocational schools seem to enter as ‘independent’. Going back to the Upper School question, I was just thinking of a particular school where the most recent entry do not appear to have any students from the U.K. apart from less than a handful from its own lower school. I also noticed more competition winners in two other upper schools although these schools also offered places to a good number of U.K. students, even those who weren’t from vocational lower schools.

Shame as schools seem to recruit heavily from these two competitions, either to their full time programmes or to their summer intensives (eventually offering full time places off these too).

I recently saw a European one and was stunned at how confident and solid dancers as young as 12 were on pointe (the ones I saw were from the US). The masterclasses were also an eye opener, so many technically advanced dancers from overseas who have brilliant performance quality. It will be very interesting to see if any candidates from the U.K. will win prizes in the YAGP finals or qualify for next year’s Prix de Lausanne.

At 16 and if you’re looking at the very classical, reputationally ‘well known big’ schools, I would say the main competition would mainly be from those trained overseas. Based purely on what I’ve observed in the last few years, those who manage to get an upper school place in these schools (who do not come from full time vocational schools) are those who have received similar training and perhaps even more hours than those who are from full time schools, and I think the latter are starting to realise this. These non-vocational young dancers who get places in excellent classical ballet upper schools here and overseas are often exquisitely trained by great and often multiple teachers/schools. It’s extremely hard to get these hours if you go to a mainstream schools, so being homeschooled is a serious option. A lot of these teaches who specialise in training for upper school have long waitlists and have availability only within the week, during school time. The higher up the years they go, the competition becomes much, much tougher. This depends of course, on the schools you are considering.

We are quite cheap in our house so we we were very surprised when the barre we bought from Amazon worked really well, and looks quite nice. It was less than £60 and I think it’s called Klarfit. We’ve had it for about a year and it still looks brand new, easy to assemble and disassemble and fits into a small dance space. Having said that I’m sure lots will recommend brands like Harlequin which is more well known but we didn’t invest in their barres or flooring (I personally found them too expensive when my DD prefers in person classes to online). We just got a generic black lino-type flooring (approx 2 x 2.5m) during the pandemic for about £20 and 3 years on it still works a treat on wood floor or thin carpet and my DD has done pointe work on it and the said barre with no problems.

Unfortunately not as the dates never tie in with my DD’s school holidays and she doesn’t like missing even a day of school. I do know a fair few who have attended and the feedback were the same as @StillSewingShoes. In general they found it quite tiring because of the fast pace and intensity and the Balanchine style which is quite different from SIs here. Teaching I heard is amazing too.

Main difference in terms of the actual programme is that it is 5 weeks - I don’t think any U.K. SI is that long. The dates, especially the start date, usually doesn’t fit with the English summer break. I believe it also acts almost like an audition for the year-round programme. So rather than an audition that is 2-days long or having 2-3 stages (prelims/finals/etc), the students can be observed for a much longer time for suitability for the year-round programme and at the same time the students get a feel of whether school and living in the city is for them.

I find over the last few years there’s been very few from the U.K. There are the (very) few who are British nationals but training overseas or internationals training in the U.K. (even less). I believe last year there were two British candidates, both privately trained for at least the last few years, neither were full time vocational students here at the time they qualified for the PdL. One is now a student at a very prestigious ballet school in Europe (not known for having British students) and one is now with a company.

Did everyone else get the email informing us of the cancellation of associates classes this weekend and next?