Neverdancedjustamum

As far as I know this isn’t published information. That’s why a post on a separate thread asking for evidence to support a comment about the lack of Elmhurst students going to WL/RBS made me wonder how any sort of evidence can be produced if schools don’t release this information anyway.

Exactly what I thought. And normally at a time when the body changes so much too. I’m sure these things exist in some way in all schools and are not isolated to vocational schools but I’d be very surprised if the % of instances of for example, eating disorders, is the same across all schools. In such a small and confined environment, where the career being aimed for has a certain aesthetic, surely all these things are heightened. I guess sometimes also for those who naturally have the ‘ideal physique’ and it’s genetic, it’s hard for these individuals and their families to imagine the struggle of those who are told to ‘lengthen’ or ‘improve their aerobic fitness’. Or for those who currently doing well and are used by teachers as examples, it will be hard to see the other side of the situation.

I can’t speak for all grammar schools but speaking from personal experience of two grammar schools, the parents are regularly consulted with their children’s progress. Nothing is a surprise. Even in schools with 6-7 forms of 30 kids each, I never felt like my kids were overlooked. If any concerns pastoral or academic-related arise, parents are contacted immediately. One of my DCs fell slightly behind in a subject in Year 10. The school immediately organised additional support classes once a week for a term for a group of them and the majority of students who attended these classes ended up getting better GCSE results than they ever thought they could. The schools are very transparent and communication lines are very open. Ultimately, if children in these grammar schools feel upset for any reason during that day, they can come home to their families and be away from an upsetting situation. At age 11/12/13 I believe this is so crucial. Obviously this is only our personal experience of two grammar schools and I’m not on any way saying this is the same for all grammar schools. Why do parents send their kids to these schools? I can tell you the answer I’ve heard 100% of the time from numerous parents I’ve spoken to: because it is their kid’s dream. In a way I admire these kids. I can’t imagine mine knowing what their dream career is until at least they go to Uni. Maybe not even then! I also admire the trust these parents place on their kids’ words. My kids have told me varying ambitions they’ve had since they were young. I questioned all of them. Sure enough, they changed their minds weeks or months later. Perhaps mine are just fickle.

Sadly, although perhaps understandably, the ‘bigger’ the name and reputation, the bigger the responsibility and accountability in the public eye it seems because a lot of people’s eyes are on you. Elsewhere in the educational world (not vocational training), my experience is that before we say, write and do anything, we often do an internal test that has become second nature over the years: not only “is this right?” but also, “If this was in the public domain, would it be considered reasonable, just and sensible?” (what we used to half-jokingly call ‘The Daily Mail’ test as in “Would this land us in the Daily Mail?”). It’s likely that the issues raised in this programme also exist elsewhere, in other schools, but I guess they picked those they deemed to be the most recognisable names in the country. What happens in these schools are always highlighted and discussed. It comes with the big name and reputation.

A couple of years ago a girl started at RBS upper without being in a lower school vocational. I think there is one starting this year who wasn’t in vocational, spent one year in Europe in a vocational school and will be starting at RBS. I think there is also a girl who started at Vaganova this year who wasn’t at vocational school. Another I know is also starting at ENBS. Another at NBS Canada. It is possible but would need time and financial commitment. You’d need to have quality, high level ballet training almost at par hours-wise with those offered at lower school vocational schools.

I’m not sure if the admin is done by the same staff member/s but Tring Park Associates invoices were issued back in the 5th July for this term. They are also very efficient and prompt in responding to queries. Is there a different staff/team that administers CBA? It’s odd because they’re all within the same school. They’re completely separate schemes of course but one would assume that at least the invoicing would be done centrally.

I think you can buy them online from Move Dancewear or Dancing in the Street. However, I normally buy these So Danca tights and SD16 shoes from Devoted to Dance (on Instagram) as I tend to buy in bulk for the term/terms.

Her dance school not being active on social media, for me personally, is a good thing. Over the years we have learned to steer clear of schools that are almost too active on social media, often featuring the same students over and over again. Either these schools have very few students, or they only feature a small number which to me is a red flag and is often indicative of possible issues behind the scenes. Social media is a tricky one, in the last few years I’ve seen her young dancers ramp up their posting as they are about to audition, often tagging schools. Instagram, for example, I believe cites 13 as the minimum age to create an account. A lot of young dancers, some as young as 7/8 years old, circumvent this by declaring to be ‘parent monitored’. This might be well and good for private accounts, but quite a few are public. As to whether it makes a difference in terms of getting offers for places, I’m not sure either. Some schools and teachers seem to think ADs have the time to scroll through social media to look at posts. On the other hand, I have seen very active social media users who repeatedly tag schools suddenly get offers to summer intensives. I guess we will never know, and it’s very much a personal choice. I must say that oddly enough, a good number of those who seem very brave in documenting everything they do, do seem to reap the rewards eventually. Coincidence?

It boggles the mind but maybe I’m in the wrong job. This year was the first year my DD attended an overseas SI (after not attending any U.K. or otherwise for years) and although we were only away for 6 days, the expense when added up is astounding (for me, anyway - I’m not used to spending this much on one kid alone). When you factor in flights, hotel, food... It’s crazy. I know it’s a cliche but on the train ride back home there was a person begging for coins and I literally felt guilty spending money on things that, on the grand scheme of things, aren’t really necessary. Don’t get me wrong, DD and I had a great time being away somewhere we’ve never been to before but I can’t even begin to contemplate doing multiple overseas SIs in one summer. I missed the rest of the family too much as well. Perhaps it’s not much of a dent on the finances of other families but that’s not the case for us. And indeed like you I’ve seen quite a few of these young dancers jetting around this summer.

Hi! If you’re looking at USA for full time, I have heard Miami City and Houston Ballet School often makes year-round offers to SI students. I also know of a full time offer to an international student at ABT JKO from this year’s SI. The Harid Conservatory in FL is also one to look at. I know they’ve made offers to internationals recently.

It probably is! I didn’t know the dancer had FB but I just looked and yes, it probably is! The profile photo is a big clue and preview of similar such photos and videos.

I think you found the dancer we were referring to 😊

If it’s the same one, I’m glad you see what I mean too. It’s one thing doing endorsements or ballet poses but the one I’m thinking of does some poses that don’t seem at all related to dance and appear to be done more to show off physique, and as I said, often in quite unnecessary overly revealing scraps of clothing and tensed up poses. I feel guilty when I say this and in the past I thought it was just me being too square or old school but speaking to others, I found lots think the same. This dancer seems really nice and is of course a brilliant dancer, it makes me think why have the need to do such revealing and risqué poses and videos. The photos I refer to are not modelling endorsements, often not related to an upcoming show and quite a few times not even related to the accompanying caption. Even some of the videos posted seem to be shot in less than tasteful angles, made even worse by the (lack of) clothing worn. I don’t think this is a usual dancer thing, I follow a lot of dancers on Instagram and have not encountered anything like it.

For me, it doesn’t normally affect my perception of them as dancers. However, I must admit that there has been the odd one where whilst it doesn’t affect my perception of them as a dancer, it has affected how I perceive them as a person. I would be very surprised if I’m the only one who noticed this dancer’s often unnecessarily ‘revealing’ posts - it’s one thing being proud of your body but I often feel like a line can be crossed especially when the captions sometimes don’t have anything to do with the photos posted. I know it’s a very subjective thing but I feel like some posts can be too awkward and not very tasteful. And yes, I have just unfollowed because for me, it’s uncomfortable viewing!

I know what you mean, it’s like a European tour (and beyond!) from what we have seen of others. I often think I’m probably in the wrong job as there is no way I can afford multiple SIs either. Thankfully, my (non-voc) DD isn’t keen on this either as to her, summer is for total and complete rest. This summer is completely out of ordinary for us and she only agreed to do 3 weeks due to generous funding. On hindsight, it would have been better to space them out, ie if doing two weeks, maybe one towards the beginning and one towards the end of summer. My DD would kill me if she had to miss even a day of school (never mind they don’t usually do much in the last few days!) so American ones for example, are out of the question because a lot of them start as early as June. My DD enjoyed the intensives she attended but out of them, perhaps unsurprisingly, she enjoyed the ‘least known’ one the most. Less of the usual ones she sees around the ballet scene all the time, less close groups, and so she got to know a lot of young dancers of varying ages. She did enjoy a popular one I initially thought she wouldn’t (one where I’ve heard full time students and competition winners tend to stick together), but this is because she met some lovely international and U.K. young dancers who welcomed her and because she loved the food on offer (priorities!). I think when choosing SIs, have a look at the usual demographic of dancers who attend. I think this makes a difference in the experience of a dancer, especially if your DC is non-vocational. A couple of SIs with high level, quality teaching, classes that aren’t huge with a good mix of young dancers, a varied timetable - this is always a good combination for us. Where we can help it, we also tend to steer clear of very big class/group sizes or those that seem to focus on dancers from certain groups/schools (social media, although never the complete or accurate picture, can often show a glimpse or gauge of this). Whilst this is normal and probably the case for a lot of the big name SIs, from conversations with fellow dance parents, this can impact a young dancer’s experience and confidence through the course.

Sadly, this is becoming more and more the case with young dancers we know. Some as young as 10/11 yo. 7 days a week of dance with no rest day, then intensive courses and masterclasses every school break. I believe a big part of it is feeling the need to be on top form for auditions, the fear of peers doing more than them and for those already in full time schools, the desire to stay in the programme. I can imagine it feels like it never ends. I guess it depends on their dreams and ambitions. My DD would personally go nuts if she had no rest day. As it is, she strictly spends the week focused on being a teenager and student (in a non-voc school) then weekends are for dancing - technically probably too many ‘rest days’ (5) 😂 It works well for her but then she has no immediate ambitions in relation to dance (that she tells me about anyway).

Sadly, I would say this is probably normal in certain specific demographic. Increasingly I think some DCs and parents these days feel the need to make sure summers are packed with as much training as possible, even though the general advice is, I assume especially for those in full time vocational schools, is that it is extremely important for DCs to get some rest over the summer. However, like you, I did notice that a lot of DCs these days go from one SI to another with some only getting maybe a maximum of a week rest (and I bet there will still be some stretching or conditioning involved within that time rather than complete rest). Sadly, I think a bit part of this is the desire and need to keep up but also the fact that places in vocational schools are like gold dust hence students feel the need to make sure they are getting as much training as possible so they don’t fall behind their peers. I also don’t know how people can afford them. It’s only this year that my DD did more than one SI, but only after about 3 years of not doing any. We only ever really considered multiple SIs this year because she received funding for one and her grandparents paid for the accommodation of the other. Otherwise I would have felt too guilty spending too much money on just one child. Whilst the SIs are a fun experience and gives a good gauge of where your DC is at, I doubt they take anything long lasting from them. They’re good for networking and meeting new mates. A lot of DCs who attend these SIs already know each other and understandably those who go to the same school tend to stick together.

Definitely gone for a few years now. Such a shame really.

So Danca ballet tights were what we found to be the best, and we have tried pretty much every brand there is going, including all of those mentioned on this thread (apart from Pretty Polly). We had about 6-7 different brands going at one point to see which shrunk or changed colour or faded quickest. So Danca (Ballet Pink) colour lasted the longest by far, with barely any fading or changing into that horrible grey pink colour (I’ve never had to get rid of any unless they get a run). This ballet pink shade never changed greyish. The So Danca (Light Pink) lasted the second longest in terms of fade in colour but both these retained their lovely colour and shape and texture by a very wide margin. I used to every so often put the whole lot next to each other to compare since we opened the packs at the same time. The best thing is - this is despite me being lazy and washing tights with other pinks (or sometimes with whites if I don’t have enough pinks to do a load) in the washing machine. I don’t put them in any special pouch when in the wash, I don’t handwash, I don’t scrub. I literally chuck them in with other clothes. And yet the SD tights lasted very long with minimal fade, if any. The Ballet pink shade also matches the So Danca SD16 stretch canvas flats perfectly.

It’s also good you mentioned you have a DD. Our experience differed slightly but also significantly to those who have DSs. Bottom line is, just by the nature of how many audition every year (males:females), it’s quite natural for odds to vary. You will often find when talking to fellow dance parents, experience/suggestions/guidance vary if you’re talking to a parent of a young male dancer or a young female dancer. This is based on our experience.

It would be rare for a local school to be able to offer 6 hours of ballet classes for that age, unless they have a pre-vocational focus or one of those that advertise as a school offering vocational hours. There are at least a couple of these in London. Depending on which vocational school she wants to go to, from our experience, it will be hard to be competitive enough to get one of those places on just 1 class and a JA class a week alone. Going back maybe 7-8 years, I do know of stunning young dancers who got places in top vocational schools on 1-2 classes a week and one associates (perhaps supplemented by a handful of privates nearer audition time). However, I think these days if you look at those who are successful in getting places in top schools, you would need more than that. The year my DC was in year 6, a lot of those who were successful in getting places trained a lot of hours, did more than one associates, attended multiple summer/spring intensives (U.K. and overseas), and often had multiple ballet teachers and coaches who would train them privately whether online or in person. This is of course not the same for everyone and for every school - it would very much depend on which schools are on your list. One thing for sure is that it is a massive commitment - both time and financial - should your DC decide to embark on that journey.

I would recommend doing your research very carefully and thoroughly especially if finances are a consideration (ie if you think your DC would need to see a physio fairly regularly or if you need to pay for the sessions yourself rather than it being covered by a school). When I looked around for physios, I was quite shocked at the hourly rate of some of them. There are a lot of little known gems out there. I tend to ignore social media and prefer to check company and school staff lists. I eventually found one, a former company physio, who charged almost half the rate of some of the other physios I’ve seen. And this physio’s rate was not by the hour but rather by the session, whether this be an hour or two. Having said that, this was quite some time ago. For someone who has more than one child and a lot of other expenses, I would not be able to afford it if my DC needed to see some of the physios I’ve looked into regularly (not that my DC sees one regularly, but I can just imagine how much it would cost if someone had to pay for weekly physio sessions out of their own pockets!).

I can totally sympathise. This age really is tricky no matter how settled and laid back a child is. They also don’t want to appear weak or emotional so often they don’t know how to begin to verbalise their thoughts and feelings. Even when things are going on in class, they want to be troopers and appear strong. To the point where you’ll probably find out more from others about how the class is and how your DD is treated from others and not directly from her. Sadly, this happens in a lot of dance schools and it’s so damaging and detrimental to these young, impressionable children/teens. You only have to look at dance schools that are active on social media. You can see within a few seconds who the favourites are. I would personally steer clear of these schools, or if you are in it, think carefully about moving DC. These schools would only measure success by those who go to vocational schools or who gets which associates. These seem like little things but it could spell such a big difference. Shattered confidence is hard to restore, and it would take a long time, if it can be restored at all. I often wonder how many amazing dancers the dance world have missed out on because of teachers who like comparing students or young dancers who weren’t nurtured because they didn’t fit the mould of what others perceive a dancer should be at such a young age. Like in any class, dancers as students develop at different rates and have different personalities and learning styles. It is extremely hard to find schools and teachers who can nurture this variety in students. There is only so much we can say to them at this age, (especially if you’re like me and you’re a parent who never danced yourself) - their validation comes from others and her teacher and class would always be key to this. I wish I can provide more helpful advice but as someone who can completely relate to this, I can only hope that your DD will find her sparkle and confidence again. For my DD, it spelled the difference between wanting to pursue dance more seriously and focusing on her academics and sport (and teen life in general). She chose well and is very happy and confident in other things, but she still has to find the sparkly, fiery little dancer she used to be.

My advice would be is to first try and determine (and this is often the hard part), if something happened to bring about this sudden lack of confidence. She’s at that age where it will probably be tricky to get this out of her and perhaps this is because she herself isn’t sure that this is the reason/s of her sudden lack of confidence. Often I find that if your DD was previously confident or at least settled in her dancing, it is often external factors or things she has no control over that bring about sudden lack of confidence. It could be anything from her body suddenly developing and a friend from class making a small comment about this to a teacher who has favourites or overly praises a peer.

Ah brilliant! My DC would be pleased to know. I think I’m the one who’s nervous about DC being in a group of full time vocational students as DC only really dances during the weekends and will go into the Prague intensive after not having danced at all for a month.