Choosing a Uni!

[kinola67]

Hello everyone, I previously posted about finding out about Uni dance degrees, we have finally got to the stage where we have seen four Uni's, Middlesex, Roehampton, De Montford and Surrey. My daughter has offers from the first three and we only saw Surrey yesterday so we'll see what they say. It's hard to choose which one! I think De Montford is out due to it's location and travel time from Edinburgh where we live.

Has anyone else been to these audition days? and if so what did you think?

I think my DD is having a crisis of confidence and wondering whether there will be enough actual dance to safisfy her but on reading other threads about this I think there are ways to top up if she wants to, it's just being practical about finding extra classes etc

Has anyone got advice for a tired old mum who has has enough of train journeys for the time being!

 

[sarahw]

kinola67 - I think anondancer15 may have relevant info. ?Worth messaging her.

[alison]

Hi kinola67, topping-up has definitely been mentioned on another thread - but I assume top-ups cost additional money, which needs to be factored in.  I've tagged this thread with "university" - if you click on the tag, it'll bring up several other related threads which may be of help.

 

What I always say to everyone going to university is that it's not only the course which counts: you are going to be spending several years of your life there, so make sure it's somewhere where you feel happy, wherever it is.  Surrey's a long way from Edinburgh too - unless you were planning on flying?

[Pups_mum]

All those courses have good reputations, but your DD is right to think hard about the choice, as a university dance degree is very different from going to vocational school and she does need to be sure that it's what she wants to do.

Assuming it is what she wants, and no one course stands out above the others, in all honesty, I wouldn't worry too much about the location. I know that might sound a bit crazy, but I am a firm believer that if you go with the right attitude and are studying fundamentally the right thing, then things will work out. For the Harry Potter fans amongst us, "the wand chooses the wizard" more often than not!

[kinola67]

Thanks all for getting back to me, it's been so mind boggling - yes we maybe just have to say things will work out fine if she goes with the right attitude. I think it would be possible to top up at all the courses, just depends on how much that costs (on top of EVERYTHING! else), Surrey seem to have good dance society group and as they are part of the GSA I think you can pay per term to do other classes such as tap/jazz etc

Surrey also do a placement year which has confused us a bit, almost all the students will do this in 3rd year and it does sound good but as far as we can tell the placements are mainly admin so no dancing involved, which would mean not only another year of fees/accomodation but a year not dancing as much (unless she has time and money to top up). I am assuming a placement year is not the be all and end all but they way they described it (of course) was that as so many graduates do not get paid jobs when they finish uni, the ones that have done the placement year are much more likely to get into paid work as they have effectively already done their unpaid work in 3rd year. But I'm sure the other uni's wouldn't necessarily agree with that!!

I will check out the university tagging - thank you and no we can't fly but will be on the train. About 7 hours door to door for Surrey, bit less obviously for London.

Just hope I don't have to go through it all again with the next DD!

[Mummy twinkle toes]

Takes me back. Roehampton used to do a fair amount of ballet. Middlesex and De mont fort were mainly contemporary. Most universities have dance societies which offer additional classes. Which one does she like the most? What facilities do they have? Accommodation/clubs/library etc are all other things to consider.

[sarahw]

I suppose the other issue is what she may want to do after and graduate destinations?

[Kate_N]

There's a lot of good advice about non-conservatoire courses - not so much specific content, but what you might expect from them - on another thread which you'll find if you click on the "university" tag. 

 

The thing to remember is that degree courses in Dance outside of the conservatoires are not second-best conservatoires, and if you go into one of the courses thinking like that, you'll be frustrated. And people like me who teach you, will also be frustrated with you!

 

Degree courses at places like Plymouth, De Montfort, Surrey, Roehampton offer arts degrees with a full range of critical and contextual studies. The qualification is broader than the degree courses in conservatoires, and equips you to do things that degree courses in conservatoires don't focus so much on. And vice versa. Neither kind of course is better or worse.

 

It is still possible to have a career in dance with a degree from, say Roehampton, but it might be a different kind of career from that which you'd have with a degree from London Contemporary at The Place.

 

But I would still recommend (as I did on the other thread) if the desire & dream is to dance at the standard of a conservatoire course, but you're not at that standard to get into conservatoires straight out of post-16 education, there is little to be lost in taking a gap year which you set up as an intensive training year. Part-time work, plus daily classes, or even two daily classes. Then audition again!

 

This would actually model what life is likely to be like in the immediate post-graduation years. 

[kinola67]

Takes me back. Roehampton used to do a fair amount of ballet. Middlesex and De mont fort were mainly contemporary. Most universities have dance societies which offer additional classes. Which one does she like the most? What facilities do they have? Accommodation/clubs/library etc are all other things to consider.

I think she liked Roehampton, I didn't see that one but looking at their website they do seem to have a good mix of styles and a good mix of work destinations on graduation, it's fairly small too compared to say Surrey - which seems huge, so that might be a good thing moving such a long way from home. I think they have just built a new library. De Montford was great -  just too complicated a journey to get there from Edinburgh!

[kinola67]

I suppose the other issue is what she may want to do after and graduate destinations?

Yes she want to carry on with dancing but is under no illusion and realises that if she wants to be in reasonably good paid employment when she's older (like my age!) she needs to be able to work on the admin/teaching/management side. So we're looking to see which one we might reasonably expect to offer a range of 'positive destinations' as our school likes to call it! She'd like to do some performing and hopefully she will get quite a bit of that if the right Uni has the right mix of classes, dance societies and the like. Fingers crossed!

[kinola67]

There's a lot of good advice about non-conservatoire courses - not so much specific content, but what you might expect from them - on another thread which you'll find if you click on the "university" tag. 

 

The thing to remember is that degree courses in Dance outside of the conservatoires are not second-best conservatoires, and if you go into one of the courses thinking like that, you'll be frustrated. And people like me who teach you, will also be frustrated with you!

 

Degree courses at places like Plymouth, De Montfort, Surrey, Roehampton offer arts degrees with a full range of critical and contextual studies. The qualification is broader than the degree courses in conservatoires, and equips you to do things that degree courses in conservatoires don't focus so much on. And vice versa. Neither kind of course is better or worse.

 

It is still possible to have a career in dance with a degree from, say Roehampton, but it might be a different kind of career from that which you'd have with a degree from London Contemporary at The Place.

 

But I would still recommend (as I did on the other thread) if the desire & dream is to dance at the standard of a conservatoire course, but you're not at that standard to get into conservatoires straight out of post-16 education, there is little to be lost in taking a gap year which you set up as an intensive training year. Part-time work, plus daily classes, or even two daily classes. Then audition again!

 

This would actually model what life is likely to be like in the immediate post-graduation years. 

Thanks for getting back to me, we are not looking at conservatoires as she realises that she would not be able to handle all day every day dancing, she'd like to do at least the same as she is now which I think she will be able to cover with what they do on the Uni courses and add to that with a dance society and/or private classes. We did go to visit the conservatoire in Glasgow just to see what it was like and realised that unless you go straight after 4th year (so age 15/16 in Scotland) you are already getting a bit too old. It was obviously very intensive and as they are quite young, it's really abit more like being at school in terms of social life etc

I think we both realise that she wants to experience student life in all it's forms so will be making full use of the student lifestyel - if she could only decide on which one to pick! so I'm really just looking for anyone that has experiences at those Unis if possible. Where do you teach?

[taxi4ballet]

Agree with others - take a very close look at the career paths of alumni, check out the faculty and see who the teachers are (and where they trained), and what their career was before becoming a university teacher. Ideally you want people who have actually danced/worked professionally in the genres/areas you are interested in.

 

And (after having read a thread from another poster on this forum who was disappointed in the number of hours of dance training), find out as much as you can about how much actual dance training from a teacher you have in the studio, as apposed to academic work and independent study.

[balletbean]

Hi, I'm probably a tad late jumping into this thread but thought I would just add my experiences to the mix. 

 

My DD considered both MT colleges and Uni's to study Dance, when applying 4 years ago (just graduated). 

 

The most noticeable difference between MT colleges/vocational schools compared to Uni courses is that there are far less hours of studio time for a Uni student. Any additional studio time comes at the students own expense and time, which would not be factored into by tutors and the work demands of the course/degree signed up for.

 

The Uni's also appear to lack the contacts within the industry and agents if your DC is considering the performing route into the industry. However, the Uni's do appear to prepare their students for working as a teacher and/or the business side of dancing. It all boils down to what career path you wish to follow. 

 

Please don't be concerned about changing your mind as you continue your studying. I know of one girl who only completed 6 months at a reputable MT college, disliked it so much, went to an open audition and has worked continuously for the same dance company for 5 years. With no help from anyone. 

 

Have you considered a course that offers 2 degrees (can't remember the official word for it). eg Geography as the main degree and an additional course in Dance. 

 

Manchester offer this type of degree I believe. It allows the student to study a very generic subject widely accepted in many careers but with the additional qualification to teach Dance of whatever genre is preferred. 

 

A happy mix of the two. A current pupil at my DD's Ballet School is in that process at the moment. It appears to be an excellent compromise for those that love dance but may not want to follow only the performing route but want to open up their employ-ability and keep their options open for later on.

 

Good Luck, it's not easy and as parents we all would love to have that crystal ball to see into the future to help us help our children make the right decision. It's not easy but worth the research and throw in as many options as possible to consider. 

 

PS  Not too sure if you are now running out of time for Uni applications for September 2017. That can only be answered by making calls to the individual Uni's as the official dates may be close but if there have been less uptake for some courses they may extend the application dates for an individual.  

[meadowblythe]

Just to advise you that certainly past students at RCS included several who completed 6th form and then went there - including from Dance School of Scotland.  Also overseas students who were older.  There's at least one who has done that in the current first year.    

[LinMM]

Sorry have I misunderstood something here ....but is de Montford referring to Leicester?? Or some other place?

 

As Leicester is easier to get to from Edinburgh than any of the other ones you have mentioned kinola 67

[kinola67]

Agree with others - take a very close look at the career paths of alumni, check out the faculty and see who the teachers are (and where they trained), and what their career was before becoming a university teacher. Ideally you want people who have actually danced/worked professionally in the genres/areas you are interested in.

 

And (after having read a thread from another poster on this forum who was disappointed in the number of hours of dance training), find out as much as you can about how much actual dance training from a teacher you have in the studio, as apposed to academic work and independent study.

Great advice, thank you I will spend some more time looking at the teachers backgrounds, so far it seems to be about 1.5/2hrs dancing per day and the rest is your own time to do your academic work and top up with other dance, fitness, clubs etc

[kinola67]

Hi, I'm probably a tad late jumping into this thread but thought I would just add my experiences to the mix. 

 

My DD considered both MT colleges and Uni's to study Dance, when applying 4 years ago (just graduated). 

 

The most noticeable difference between MT colleges/vocational schools compared to Uni courses is that there are far less hours of studio time for a Uni student. Any additional studio time comes at the students own expense and time, which would not be factored into by tutors and the work demands of the course/degree signed up for.

 

The Uni's also appear to lack the contacts within the industry and agents if your DC is considering the performing route into the industry. However, the Uni's do appear to prepare their students for working as a teacher and/or the business side of dancing. It all boils down to what career path you wish to follow. 

 

Please don't be concerned about changing your mind as you continue your studying. I know of one girl who only completed 6 months at a reputable MT college, disliked it so much, went to an open audition and has worked continuously for the same dance company for 5 years. With no help from anyone. 

 

Have you considered a course that offers 2 degrees (can't remember the official word for it). eg Geography as the main degree and an additional course in Dance. 

 

Manchester offer this type of degree I believe. It allows the student to study a very generic subject widely accepted in many careers but with the additional qualification to teach Dance of whatever genre is preferred. 

 

A happy mix of the two. A current pupil at my DD's Ballet School is in that process at the moment. It appears to be an excellent compromise for those that love dance but may not want to follow only the performing route but want to open up their employ-ability and keep their options open for later on.

 

Good Luck, it's not easy and as parents we all would love to have that crystal ball to see into the future to help us help our children make the right decision. It's not easy but worth the research and throw in as many options as possible to consider. 

 

PS  Not too sure if you are now running out of time for Uni applications for September 2017. That can only be answered by making calls to the individual Uni's as the official dates may be close but if there have been less uptake for some courses they may extend the application dates for an individual.  

Thanks very much for getting back to me, my DD has an offer from the four Uni's now, so that's the stage we are at for starting in Sept. I think she is happy with the choice of Uni over vocational, but  wants to be able to dance as much as possible whilst doing her course! so it's just trying to fathom out which of the four would be the best for 1. dance classes per day included within the course 2. easiest to top up with either private classes (cost?) or dance clubs/societies and 3. one that provides a resonable expectation of a choice of work destinations including hopefully performing as well as admin/teaching/management. Surrey do major/minor degrees but it was difficult to fathom out how popular they were when we visited this week, but yes I agree they seem to be a good combination for those wanting the degree security but also to continue dancing. Surrey do a placement year which gets the students working (not earning though) and they pride themselves in the fact that many of the students get jobs at the end of their course with their placement firms. The placements however as admin roles, so no dancing involved which means a year of less dancing unless one can afford to pay for top up. My DD just didn't like that idea. I don't know if I am now over analysing it all! but I guess as researching it all is much easier these days with the websites etc I feel we must take adavantage of it! I'm sure my mother had no idea what my Uni was like and only saw me in the holidays and as long as I phoned once a week, we were all happy!

[kinola67]

Sorry have I misunderstood something here ....but is de Montford referring to Leicester?? Or some other place?

 

As Leicester is easier to get to from Edinburgh than any of the other ones you have mentioned kinola 67

Yes De Montford is in Leicester but by train it is two or sometimes one connection from Edinburgh so although geographically closer the train journey is a bit of nightmare. I think you can fly to East Midlands but the journey from there is another bus and as Edinburgh airport has expanded so rapidly recently the check in time is really long...basically meaning trains to London are the quickest and easiest. We did like De Montford though!

[balletbean]

I totally understand and sympathise with you. Not knowing what is for the best. A couple of things to finally think about, 1) Nothing is set in stone, I have known enough students that swap courses once they have arrived at Uni, the staff appear to handle this with ease and treating it all as if it is the norm 2) Gut instinct, by your daughter. What and how did she feel about the Uni that she has decided on? You won't be able to answer this and neither probably will your daughter be able to explain it. It will be that instant feel that she felt about a place. 

 

My daughter had it when she auditioned. having visited 3 different colleges in a week. The final one we hadn't even been to for an open day and least researched because of the timing. We arrived and we can't put our finger on it, she just said that she felt she was at home! The instant calm within the college.  Another one we had visited the open day, researched the course, college and city, ticking all the boxes on paper. Went to the audition, I left her there for the day and I felt unsettled all day. She arrived back at the hotel, and then admitted to me that she would have difficulty if she was offered a place as she really did not like it. Just that gut feeling again. 

 

So that is all I can say, research, discuss and talk about the different places but at the end of the day just step back and let your daughter decide. After all she will be the one living and breathing the course and the other students for the next 3 years. 

 

Good Luck and I wish her well

[Frogsmum]

This brings back memories from over 20 yrs ago. I went to Roehampton, and at the time they offered a joint Hons degree, which was from University of Surrey. A friend in my year studied Dance & English. It was quite a small Uni back then, consisting of 4 colleges across SW London. We had an absolute ball - London on our doorstep with everything there on offer. It was expensive to live though, which you do have to factor in. She did go on to perform for a while, but she was so skilled in networking, and had a very charismatic personality, that she went on to run a highly successful business across the country (not dance related). I think the dance really helped there though! I know this is really out of date, and purely anecdotal, but just wanted to chip in for nostalgia's sake! Good luck with your decision.

[balletbean]

 offered a joint Hons degree, 

That's a relief, Thank you, it's been bugging me on the correct title of a 2 degrees studied at the same time..

 

Sad, but I just couldn't think   PS It's a age thing......

[sarahw]

On a personal note I find connecting across London much more stressful than elsewhere. ..

[Frogsmum]

Agree Sarahw!, Mind you when we were 18 it seemed such a laugh, and I remember the old N22 Putney night bus very well! Couldn't do it now though!!

[taxi4ballet]

Akram Khan studied at De Montfort I believe, and the course is well-regarded in the contemporary dance world. Plenty of links to the industry as well.