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UCAS points Inter Foundation Exams


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I was wondering if any one can help my daughter is due to take her Inter foundation Ballet Exam soon and a friend as just told me that they have stopped giving UCAS points for this exam. Can anyone else confirm this.

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It seems that UCAS points are awarded for intermediate and advanced foundation exams, plus grades 6-8, but not for intermediate foundation or for advanced 1 or 2. I confess that I'm not sure why grades 6-8 attract points but not intermediate foundation. Even more, I am puzzled that advanced 1 and 2 don't count - unless they are considered above school level? - although they should surely count as evidence of very high attainment levels if the other exams do?

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Inter foundation is a level 2 qualification and advanced 1 & 2 are level 4 on the national qualification framework. UCAS points are only applicable to level 3 qualifications (A levels) - which in ballet terms are grades 6-8, intermediate and advanced foundation.

http://ofqual.gov.uk/help-and-advice/comparing-qualifications/  - will take you to a link that shows the level for GCSEs, A levels, degrees etc and the grades from RAD are as below:

Grade 1-3 GCSE’s graded D-G, NVQ’s at Level 1

 

Grade 4-5 and InterFoundation GCSE’s graded A*-C, NVQ’s at Level 2

 

Grade 6-8 AS/A levels, NVQ’s at Level 3

 

Intermediate/Adv Foundation AS/A Levels, NVQ’s at Level 3

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How can RAD Grades 1 to 3 be equivalent to GCSE at Grades D to G? Does this mean 7 or 8 year old children taking RAD Grade 1 ,for example, when passed the exam have the equivalent of a GCSE? I`m not questioning your info,2dancersmum, I`m merely asking how can this be?

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N

How can RAD Grades 1 to 3 be equivalent to GCSE at Grades D to G? Does this mean 7 or 8 year old children taking RAD Grade 1 ,for example, when passed the exam have the equivalent of a GCSE? I`m not questioning your info,2dancersmum, I`m merely asking how can this be?

I have always wondered this myself!

 

Also why Inter Foundation is Level 2 (i.e. below) Grade 6 whereas in some syllabi (e.g. ISTD, BBO) the content is as or MORE advanced! Moving Intermediate to level 3 (it used to be at Level 2 as well) was presumably an attempt to address at least part of this issue.

 

Grade 1 would not be equivalent to a "D-G" GCSE though - presumably only Grade 3 would be as high as a D, with the lower GCSE grades corresponding to Grades 2 & 1.

 

For what it's worth, IMHO Grades 1-3 should have been @ Entry level, Grades 4&5 @ Level 1(GCSE D-G), Inter Found & Grade 6 @ level 2 (GCSE A*-C), Inter & Grade 7 @ level 3 (A-Level), Adv Found & Grade 8 @ Level 4 (Ist year degree), Advanced 1 @ Level 5 (2nd year degree) & Advanced 2 @ Level 6 (Degree standard, since it is meant to be set at the gateway to professional level!). Solo Seal & Cecchetti Diploma could have been @ one of the "postgraduate" levels 7 or 8.

 

Would have made a LOT more sense in terms of normal ages & stages of candidates! No idea how they got it so badly wrong, but I guess it's too late to change it now!

Edited by youngatheart
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But Grades 1-3 can't be Entry Level or they would have to be renamed.

 

LAMDA & Trinity Guildhall both have Entry Level as a pre Grade 1 exam (in drama & music)

 

Not at all - I am not seriously advocating we change things now, it would be far too messy! I am just saying what it "should" have been in my opinion from the very outset.

 

As such, obviously the same scheme would have been applied to music & drama exams as well.

 

Entry Level in education has three "Grades" - Entry 1, Entry 2 and Entry 3. See my logic here? Pre-grade 1 exams such as Primary are specifically intended for very young schildren - no non-special-needs teen or adult would ever be entered for them - and cannot be regarded as a qualification, and hence do not need to be accredited. (They would correspond to the "P-levels" in education used in special needs classes (the higher P-levels would represent a level expected of children of the target age for Pre-Primary & Primary).

Edited by youngatheart
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http://www.docstoc.com/docs/87986945/NQF-QCA-accredited-qualifications-Level-7-The-Level-7-Fellowship-Diplomas-in-Music-Performance-Composition-Direction-Facilitating-Adjudicating-and-Theory-Lit

 

This is a table for Drama & Music which shows how the various Grades lie.

 

Lamda also has 3 pre Entry Level grades which are not accredited (Introductory, Preparatory & Preliminay). They are designed for children aged 5 & above. I guess they would be similar in standard to the ballet Pre-Primary & Primary?

Edited by Picturesinthefirelight
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When I was studying for my gcses (many moi s ago) you were encouraged to play a Grade 4 or 5 piece for the performance part of your exam (you were given a mark for how you played it which was multiplied by the difficulty level) - I got a B

 

It was perfectly possible to play a Grade 1-3 piece & still pass (but not necessarily with a C)

 

I played Grade 6-7 pieces for A level & got a D

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Not inconsistent if you equate the diplomas with "Vocational" and the Grades with "General", surely?

 

Plus in my school we had to pass grade 5 theory before being eligible to embark on O-level music.

 

Still don't know how anyone can justify classing an exam normally taken by 10-12-year-olds as equivalent to an A* GCSE!

 

Sixth-formers taking A-Levels are nomally working at Intermediate-Advanced 1 level.

 

 

 

 

Edited by youngatheart
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Diplomas are (or were when my dh was at Conservatoire) often studied for alongside a degree. Candidates for conservatoire training were expected to be equivalent to Grade 8 Distinction standard on entry.

 

I've always assumed (rightly or wrongly) that Music Diplomas were the equivalent of the DDI & DDE (& RAD equivalent)

Edited by Picturesinthefirelight
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Diplomas are (or were when my dh was at Conservatoire) often studied for alongside a degree. Candidates for conservatoire training were expected to be equivalent to Grade 8 Distinction standard on entry.

 

I've always assumed (rightly or wrongly) that Music Diplomas were the equivalent of the DDI & DDE (& RAD equivalent)

 

OK so maybe music exams should never have been equated to dance exams then? Perhaps that is where the mistake was made?

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Not at all - I am not seriously advocating we change things now, it would be far too messy! I am just saying what it "should" have been in my opinion from the very outset.

 

As such, obviously the same scheme would have been applied to music & drama exams as well.

 

Entry Level in education has three "Grades" - Entry 1, Entry 2 and Entry 3. See my logic here? Pre-grade 1 exams such as Primary are specifically intended for very young schildren - no non-special-needs teen or adult would ever be entered for them - and cannot be regarded as a qualification, and hence do not need to be accredited. (They would correspond to the "P-levels" in education used in special needs classes (the higher P-levels would represent a level expected of children of the target age for Pre-Primary & Primary).

P levels in education are not the levels for a child the age pre- and Primary are intended for. Education p levels are for children working below the standard needed to access the national curriculum. It's a very difficult task I think to try to take a ballet syllabus and equate it to educational levels. I think it's done mostly on the number of study hours and the course content, nothin to do with the intellectual ability needed for either qualification.

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I do see your point youngatheart, but I have difficulty equating G7 with intermediate and G8 with Adv Foundation.

 

I was not "equating" them at all, I was keeping them on the "General" & "Vocational" pathways as they are now. Maybe I should have made that clearer?

 

i.e. someone on the general pathway would be on Grade 8 while their peers on the Vocational pathway would be working towards Advanced Foundation.

 

On the BBO syllabus which I am most familiar with, Grades 6 & 7 are simplified versions of Inter Foundation and Intermediate respectively, designed to be taught in the same class with a lot of the same content, so should be pitched at the same Level (taking into account the general & vocational distinction). There is no Advanced Foundation level, and Grade 8 is a performance-based syllabus which has no connection to Advanced 1.

 

Most other exam boards apart from BBO & RAD only go up to grade 6 anyway, so there the issue does not actually arise!

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P levels in education are not the levels for a child the age pre- and Primary are intended for. Education p levels are for children working below the standard needed to access the national curriculum. It's a very difficult task I think to try to take a ballet syllabus and equate it to educational levels. I think it's done mostly on the number of study hours and the course content, nothin to do with the intellectual ability needed for either qualification.

I was not literally equating them, rather I was trying to make the point that there is something "below" Entry Level, which most people are probably not aware of, and that Pre-Primary & Primary should be regarded as "below" the syllabus whereas Entry Level should be part of it.

 

Re your 3rd sentence, I absolutely agree! And as we all know, ballet syllabi can't even be equated with each other, e.g. the RAD & BBO syllabi, exams & progression are completely different. (Although the new RAD syllabus has moved closer to BBO in terms of difficulty, the number of settings required in the exam is only a fraction of the BBO ones, whereas in BBO there is no dance or variation at all in the Grade exams, it is exercises only (although they also offer performance awards). How can this possibly be "equivalent"?

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No, the 28 credits are not UCAS points - I don't fully understand the credits - I think they are more applicable to subjects where you study a number of separate modules to get the qualification - so if you need 50 credits for example for the qualification you are after you might choose 2 units of 25 credits each. This is obviously not the case for ballet when you are examined on the syllabus in one session and either pass or fail following the exam.

 

http://www.rad.org.uk/achieve/exams/Results%2C%20qualifications%20and%20recognition/ucas-points shows how many UCAS points the various qualifying bodies decided each exam was worth.

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Still don't know how anyone can justify classing an exam normally taken by 10-12-year-olds as equivalent to an A* GCSE!

 

I think this refers to grades 4/5 as mentioned in a previous post - presumably (in the eyes of the regulatory body) a teenager with little previous ballet experience might study grade 4 or 5 from the age of 14 to 16 (as you would a GCSE) and be able to pass...

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