RBS versus Elmhurst associates

[sunrise81]

How do they compare? I have had one DC go through RBS but no experience of Elmhurst associates programme. DC2 now wanting to do more ballet! Cant do both as locations don't work. So one or the other!

 

 

Edited March 27, 2023 by alison
To remove blank space

[mumtotwoballerinas]

Stick with RBS if you want a better chance of vocational school place at year 7 for Elmhurst and RBS. 

[sunrise81]

Can I ask why? How does the teaching compare? DC2 is only going to be Yr 4 so not thinking about vocational school at all yet.

 

 

[Ballerina-girl]

My daughter was lucky enough to do both programmes. She enjoyed both equally, and found the lessons a very similar standard with 2 wonderful teachers. RBS offered more opportunities such as London workshops/pre gen performances etc. The only additional thing Elmhurst offered was a Easter residential (which was very reasonably priced) but unfortunately was cancelled due to covid the year my daughter was due to go. 
I know the Birmingham elmhurst associates get a few extra opportunities such at BRB nutcracker. 
good luck to your dd an exciting journey ahead. X 

[OnTheMove]

30 minutes ago, mumtotwoballerinas said:

Stick with RBS if you want a better chance of vocational school place at year 7 for Elmhurst and RBS. 

This isn’t true. It will have little bearing on being offered a year 7 place.

 

Try for both and choose which you enjoyed the most (and easiest to travel to). 

[TinyNEDancer]

My DD did both @sunrise81 as we were lucky enough that, location and time wise, it worked. She did Elmhurst YD since Y4 and loved it. She really misses it, made some lovely friends and it was our first real taste of anything like this. We found it very nurturing, and not in the slightest bit pressured. This may be down to the teacher, the mix of students, I am not sure. She did the Easter Residential too, which was lots of fun. She did RBS JAs from Y5, She also loved this. They're made to feel special, they get invited to some lovely events (as you will know), they learn a lot about physiology and some vital back to basics stuff. She was really encouraged to apply for voc schools and see things on a wider scale. 

 

I am not sure I am helping, as she loved them both! Quite a different 'feel' and approach, but both some of the loveliest experiences that she's had so far 

 

The only thing I would say is, living where we do, and at the centres ours were at, they didn't get the same (performance) opportunities as the London/Bhm JAs and Bhm YDs. 

[Astrid]

We did both in Bham. DD loved both of them.
DD used to say she did more actual dancing at an Elmhurst, I think there is more focus on technical detail at JAs possibly (which is no bad thing). She did a jazz class at Elmhurst in year 4, which stopped after covid but that was great fun. Elmhurst also let them be in the show in year 6, which was wonderful for her. 

One thing I would say is in terms of communication, RBS wins hands down. I’d also say in 3 years at Elmhurst we never got to speak to the teachers directly, nor did we get any feedback. I think we supposed to get reports but we never did. We would often get last minute emails from Elmhurst, with RBS they were always in advance, with clear instruction. While my DD very much felt part of Elmhurst as a young dancer, I didn’t feel that connection with them as a parent.

 

At JAs we had regular phone calls and we were able to email our teacher. Our JA teacher was also wonderful at helping and advising us through some difficult decisions and took time out of her personal time to do so. I felt like we were treated more an individuals rather than as one of a class. This was our centre though, and very much our experience.  I know others might be different.
As I said DD loved both classes. Elmhurst introduced us to associates and started her off on the path she went down, we will always be grateful for that but during our time on the audition circuit I was extremely grateful for our JA teachers experience and input.

 

[littledancer99]

this is good to know as we are looking at applying to both and wondered how they compared

 

[Ms Sunshine]

My DD was a Elmhurst YD but was at royal finals for year 7 a few years back.

[mumtotwoballerinas]

On 26/03/2023 at 20:55, OnTheMove said:

This isn’t true. It will have little bearing on being offered a year 7 place.

 

Try for both and choose which you enjoyed the most (and easiest to t

Look at most recent years year 7 intake and which associates they attended. It would depend whether you are considering a year 7 place. 

[B.wightman1]

Can anyone give any info on the YD fees at Elmhurst? I can’t find them on the website! 

[The Graceless One]

Hi, I would look at it as - there is no guarantee that just because you’re a JA or young dancer, you’re going to get a place in year seven. There are plenty of children who have never done associates with Royal Ballet school or Elmhurst  and are just what the schools are looking for for year seven, so will be offered a place at this age. I personally would audition for both and see you which one your child enjoyed the most and had the best feel from. It doesn’t matter how well established a scheme is, if your child does not enjoy it there no benefit at all to them being there. They learn better being somewhere where they are happy and where they enjoy being over the name of the place/institution X 

[OnTheMove]

35 minutes ago, The Graceless One said:

Hi, I would look at it as - there is no guarantee that just because you’re a JA or young dancer, you’re going to get a place in year seven. There are plenty of children who have never done associates with Royal Ballet school or Elmhurst  and are just what the schools are looking for for year seven, so will be offered a place at this age. I personally would audition for both and see you which one your child enjoyed the most and had the best feel from. It doesn’t matter how well established a scheme is, if your child does not enjoy it there no benefit at all to them being there. They learn better being somewhere where they are happy and where they enjoy being over the name of the place/institution X 

I 100% agree with this. Go for what the child enjoys and what’s easier for you as a family with travel, expense etc. 

 

Also, to say that doing the associates of a school you want your child to go to and that it will influence them getting a place at that school is    wrong. 
 

So that cuts out all the children that live nowhere near an associates program? Spreading the idea that you need to do the associates to gain a place at the school just puts pressure on families who may be 100s of miles from those schools. 

[mumtotwoballerinas]

21 minutes ago, OnTheMove said:

I 100% agree with this. Go for what the child enjoys and what’s easier for you as a family with travel, expense etc. 

 

Also, to say that doing the associates of a school you want your child to go to and that it will influence them getting a place at that school is    wrong. 
 

So that cuts out all the children that live nowhere near an associates program? Spreading the idea that you need to do the associates to gain a place at the school just puts pressure on families who may be 100s of miles from those schools. 

I think we are also ignoring the plain fact that many of the successful entrants for year 7 and year 12  have had private coaching with 1 or more professional or ex professional dancers. You only need to look at the successes claimed this year so far for evidence. 

It also has to be considered if you wish your child to continue their associate journey, where are mids and seniors held, will they still be within easy travelling distance. Beware that this may be different for girls and boys. Most primary age children have associates within fairly easy travelling distance, but this may end up being a 5+ hour round trip every week at year 7 and 

[Neverdancedjustamum]

13 minutes ago, mumtotwoballerinas said:

I think we are also ignoring the plain fact that many of the successful entrants for year 7 and year 12  have had private coaching with 1 or more professional or ex professional dancers. You only need to look at the successes claimed this year so far for evidence. 

It also has to be considered if you wish your child to continue their associate journey, where are mids and seniors held, will they still be within easy travelling distance. Beware that this may be different for girls and boys. Most primary age children have associates within fairly easy travelling distance, but this may end up being a 5+ hour round trip every week at year 7 and 

This is a very good point. Associates centres decrease as they go up within the groups (junior/mids/senior).

 

To the OP, I’d say let your DC audition for both. My DC did and just from the audition class, and despite being very young at the time, DC already noticed the difference. DC claimed one involved more dancing and the other involved more skipping and the panel looking at feet and physique.  If the auditions were reflective of the subsequent classes, DC already knew which one was not for them. 
 

Although to say being an associate influences getting a full time place might not be entirely accurate, you only have to look at the percentage of former associates that make up the year 7 class of these schools, though it’s probably more obvious with one. It is very significant and seems beyond coincidence. My DC was at the finals of one of these schools for entry into Year 7 a few years ago and the number of non-associates was very much in the minority. If I were to believe one of their observations at the time, they noticed that the physios spent more time looking at current associates. Perhaps the significance of being an associate of the school diminishes as they go up years. Look at the numbers of MA/SA/Extended who eventually get full time places in the schools. I’m willing to guess the numbers are extremely small. 

[Astrid]

I think the likelihood is most children offered year 7 places will have done an associate scheme at some point simply because it’s popular way of doing more ballet.
However Elmhurst definitely do not prioritise their associates for places at the school. And while most children who get into white lodge will have been a JA there are always examples most years of children who weren’t getting places.  
 

The best thing you can do if you are aiming for a vocational place is to find a really good teacher with experience of training for auditions. And not worry about what everyone else is doing, stick to what works for you. Associate schemes are brilliant but not the be all and end all. 

[OnTheMove]

2 hours ago, Astrid said:

I think the likelihood is most children offered year 7 places will have done an associate scheme at some point simply because it’s popular way of doing more ballet.
However Elmhurst definitely do not prioritise their associates for places at the school. And while most children who get into white lodge will have been a JA there are always examples most years of children who weren’t getting places.  
 

The best thing you can do if you are aiming for a vocational place is to find a really good teacher with experience of training for auditions. And not worry about what everyone else is doing, stick to what works for you. Associate schemes are brilliant but not the be all and end all. 

Yes well said. They’re not the be all and end all. And not accessible to all. Maybe some parents like to convince themselves their children didn’t get a place because they didn’t do the school’s associate program. But it’s more than likely not true. 

[OnTheMove]

3 hours ago, mumtotwoballerinas said:

I think we are also ignoring the plain fact that many of the successful entrants for year 7 and year 12  have had private coaching with 1 or more professional or ex professional dancers. You only need to look at the successes claimed this year so far for evidence. 

It also has to be considered if you wish your child to continue their associate journey, where are mids and seniors held, will they still be within easy travelling distance. Beware that this may be different for girls and boys. Most primary age children have associates within fairly easy travelling distance, but this may end up being a 5+ hour round trip every week at year 7 and 

Yes it can’t be denied that many children have private coaching now. Which may be financially inaccessible to many. 
 

It’s not necessarily needed though. There are plenty of very good teachers out there, that’s year in year out get their students into vocational school. 
 

A round trip of 5+ hours for any associate program is a waste of money and time in my opinion. Maybe paying for a coach is preferable! 

[Mummy twinkle toes]

RBS also offer JA for a day workshops so worth looking out for. It allows the children to try it to see what they think. These are throughout the U.K. Dd2 did it in Wales where there are no JA classes.

Elmhurst do an occasional day of dance workshops in Birmingham-these get booked very quickly. 

[mumtotwoballerinas]

On 30/03/2023 at 14:09, OnTheMove said:

Yes it can’t be denied that many children have private coaching now. Which may be financially inaccessible to many. 
 

It’s not necessarily needed though. There are plenty of very good teachers out there, that’s year in year out get their students into vocational school. 
 

A round trip of 5+ hours for any associate program is a waste of money and time in my opinion. Maybe paying for a coach is preferable! 

Unfortunately there has been very little choice for boys. On the reverse there is probably too much choice for girls now !