Overseas Full Time Ballet Training at 18

[Maryy]

My goal is to become a professional ballet dancer. I think joining a full-time training programme is necessary to become a pro. However, I live in Malaysia, and there's no full-time ballet school here. If I want to have full-time training, I have to apply to a ballet school overseas. 

 

It's definitely better to go overseas when you are an adult (18 years old) instead of a minor (as a foreigner, I think being an adult living abroad would be much more convenient than being a minor) (especially since some countries require a guardian to stay with you when you're under 18).

 

I saw so many people saying that it's too late to join full-time training at 18. But I still found some schools that accept international students at age 18 and above, such as the National Theatre Ballet School in Melbourne. I found a girl enrolled in this school when she was 17, and she told me it's fine to enrol when you're 18. What do you think of that? I would really love to hear your opinions and thoughts. 

 

Do you guys know of any other ballet schools that accept students at age 18 and above?

 

Thank you for your help🙏🏻

 

 

[Jan McNulty]

Hello Maryy and welcome to the Forum!

 

I have moved your post to the more appropriate Doing Dance forum.

[Maryy]

24 minutes ago, Jan McNulty said:

Hello Maryy and welcome to the Forum!

 

I have moved your post to the more appropriate Doing Dance forum.

Thanks!

[Ruby Foo]

I can understand your concerns about moving across the world to train but realistically I think going away to vocational training at 18 is unusual for someone who wants to pursue a classical ballet career. There are students who have already reached a professional standard, who want to 'finish' or 'polish' at a certain school or with a certain renowned teacher, for their last year, who may go at 18 for that purpose. But they would have already attained a professional standard and be looking for that something extra. For contemporary, however, it would be perfectly acceptable to be thinking of starting somewhere at 18. Places like Rambert, Alvin Ailey, London Contemporary etc all prefer mature students who have reached a very high standard of dance.

You don't mention your age, but if you are worried about living abroad at 16 then you could try for schools that offer accommodation as part of the package. You would be living in accommodation as part of the school, with houseparents to keep an eye on you and your food provided. Places like RBS, Elmhurst, SAB, etc There are lots and lots of international ballet students here in the UK training from 16, some who don't speak a word of English, so plenty of support from others in same position. There are other schools like ENB, NBS, Central School,and European schools where you stay in student accommodation independently from the school but sharing with your fellow students. You usually shop and cook your own food in accommodation like this. If you don't have a Guardian in your country of choice then the schools will help you. A Guardian is helpful for halfterm holidays or to stay in the event of illness.

You could look at some other posts on this forum about the pluses and minuses of waiting until 16 to start full time training. It will be about the quality and quantity of training you can find where you are right now, plus the financial means.
 

[Kate_N]

Maryy, welcome to BalletC forum. It's hard for us to recommend places because we haven't seen you dance. And it also depends on how much you can afford.

 

In the UK (where this forum is based), there are two routes to post-high school training: the vocational/conservatoire route, or the university dance degree route. Both offer options for graduating with a BA (Honours) degree. As a Malay national, you'd be liable for overseas student fees (generally reflecting the full cost of the course) of between 12,000 and 18,000 per year, plus your living costs. 

 

The conservatoires offer intense full-time dance training, but they are extremely competitive to enter, always by audition.

 

University dance degree courses take more students, so are less competitive to be offered a place. However, they are still competitive and entry is also by audition. Most university dance degrees tend to focus on contemporary dance, and you'd be studying a lot of modules in contextual & historical studies, plus professional development.

 

You'll find the same in Australia - the former Colleges of Advanced Education tend to be the places which offer degrees in dance. 

 

The other way of course, is if you are a phenomenal world-class dancer for your current age, enter competitions such as the Prix de Lausanne, or the Youth America Grand Prix (YAGP), as prizes include places at major international ballet schools.

 

 

[Maryy]

32 minutes ago, valentina said:

I can understand your concerns about moving across the world to train but realistically I think going away to vocational training at 18 is unusual for someone who wants to pursue a classical ballet career. There are students who have already reached a professional standard, who want to 'finish' or 'polish' at a certain school or with a certain renowned teacher, for their last year, who may go at 18 for that purpose. But they would have already attained a professional standard and be looking for that something extra. For contemporary, however, it would be perfectly acceptable to be thinking of starting somewhere at 18. Places like Rambert, Alvin Ailey, London Contemporary etc all prefer mature students who have reached a very high standard of dance.

You don't mention your age, but if you are worried about living abroad at 16 then you could try for schools that offer accommodation as part of the package. You would be living in accommodation as part of the school, with houseparents to keep an eye on you and your food provided. Places like RBS, Elmhurst, SAB, etc There are lots and lots of international ballet students here in the UK training from 16, some who don't speak a word of English, so plenty of support from others in same position. There are other schools like ENB, NBS, Central School,and European schools where you stay in student accommodation independently from the school but sharing with your fellow students. You usually shop and cook your own food in accommodation like this. If you don't have a Guardian in your country of choice then the schools will help you. A Guardian is helpful for halfterm holidays or to stay in the event of illness.

You could look at some other posts on this forum about the pluses and minuses of waiting until 16 to start full time training. It will be about the quality and quantity of training you can find where you are right now, plus the financial means.
 

I see. What do you think if I have reached my advanced level of ability and I want to train in overseas ballet school to"polish"my technique at 18? Is it still too late or is it possible to pursue classical ballet career?

[Ruby Foo]

If you were exceptional enough, (phenomenal world class dancer)  to be accepted by a renowned ballet school at 18, then you would probably be on track to find a career in dance. I personally don't know any top schools who take ballet dancers at 18.

[Lifeafterballet]

Elmhurst took my Ds at 17 and another student at 18. I can think of two others who were both 18 when starting their upper school too. Also, a few students just joined for the graduate year only 😊

[Jewel]

What does your teacher advise?

[NotadanceMa]

1 hour ago, Maryy said:

I see. What do you think if I have reached my advanced level of ability and I want to train in overseas ballet school to"polish"my technique at 18? Is it still too late or is it possible to pursue classical ballet career?

If you audition and are accepted by a school then of course there are possibilities. And no it’s not too late. X

[Maryy]

1 hour ago, valentina said:

If you were exceptional enough, (phenomenal world class dancer)  to be accepted by a renowned ballet school at 18, then you would probably be on track to find a career in dance. I personally don't know any top schools who take ballet dancers at 18.

Do you know Hannah Martin? (You can know her by checking her youtube channel) I know she started full time training when she was 18 at Elmhurst ( she joined the graduate year) and now she is an apprentice at Birmingham Royal Ballet.

[Maryy]

48 minutes ago, cotes du rhone ! said:

Elmhurst took my Ds at 17 and another student at 18. I can think of two others who were both 18 when starting their upper school too. Also, a few students just joined for the graduate year only 😊

Thank you for your reply! Your words definitely comforts me☺

[Maryy]

8 minutes ago, Jewel said:

What does your teacher advise?

Well I haven't tell my teacher yet😅 because my teacher didn't had a full time training and company background(she is a RAD registered teacher) and I think maybe I can't get the information that I want from her. So I decided to discuss it with my family first.

[Ruby Foo]

 

26 minutes ago, Maryy said:

Do you know Hannah Martin? (You can know her by checking her youtube channel) I know she started full time training when she was 18 at Elmhurst ( she joined the graduate year) and now she is an apprentice at Birmingham Royal Ballet.

 
It sounds like you are doing your research 👍and I'm sure if you continue, you'll find more places worldwide who will take someone exceptionally talented at 18. And more dancers who did it! You sound as though you are taking your current tuition seriously too by checking your teacher's credentials. 

 

[Peanut68]

I’m pretty sure that most of the UK vocational ballet upper schools/courses accept 18 year olds & its quite common for newcomers (especially from overseas) to join the Grad third year. Places free up by those who leave plus I think numbers can increase in older years where boarding is not on site & up to 18+ aged students to find 

Hasn’t RBS just announced that in effect the upper school now is a 2 year course with then a new round of auditions for the third year? I saw that as a new way to justify them parachuting in the many talented international students they always seem to have done into third year (& often then the company) These often are highly trained ‘hot housed’ dancers & competition winners etc. 

[Ruby Foo]

39 minutes ago, Peanut68 said:

I’m pretty sure that most of the UK vocational ballet upper schools/courses accept 18 year olds & its quite common for newcomers (especially from overseas) to join the Grad third year. Places free up by those who leave plus I think numbers can increase in older years where boarding is not on site & up to 18+ aged students to find 

Hasn’t RBS just announced that in effect the upper school now is a 2 year course with then a new round of auditions for the third year? I saw that as a new way to justify them parachuting in the many talented international students they always seem to have done into third year (& often then the company) These often are highly trained ‘hot housed’ dancers & competition winners etc. 

 
Since starting the 3 yr degree course, RBS don't accept anyone new in 3rd year.

[Neverdancedjustamum]

1 hour ago, Peanut68 said:

I’m pretty sure that most of the UK vocational ballet upper schools/courses accept 18 year olds & its quite common for newcomers (especially from overseas) to join the Grad third year. Places free up by those who leave plus I think numbers can increase in older years where boarding is not on site & up to 18+ aged students to find 

Hasn’t RBS just announced that in effect the upper school now is a 2 year course with then a new round of auditions for the third year? I saw that as a new way to justify them parachuting in the many talented international students they always seem to have done into third year (& often then the company) These often are highly trained ‘hot housed’ dancers & competition winners etc. 

I thought the same as you @Peanut68 I can think of at least one student who joined just for the final year within the last 2 years. I thought RBS has offered the degree programme for a good few years now, maybe last 4 years. And I always thought a few students leave at the end of the second year and are still eligible for some sort of exit award (maybe a Foundation Degree). It does seem a few new ones often from competitions etc join the third year and no one is really assured the full 3 years. But I could be wrong. This is just from what I’ve heard over the last few years. 

[Kate_N]

@Maryy the main things are going to be your level of training, talent/ability, and your body's facility for ballet. The schools mentioned take the top students of their age group in the pool of auditioning students. What sort of level are you currently training at? You mention RAD - what examinations have you taken & what were your results? 

 

Because if you're not outstanding in terms of training, ability, and facility, then you need to think really carefully about what you do next, and what benefits & opportunities you'll receive for the fees and living costs of studying internationally. It is possible to have a very satisfying career in dance without dancing in a classical ballet company - a degree in dance will give you training to be a teacher, a community arts worker, an arts producer professional just to name a few destinations for graduates.

[Ruby Foo]

1 hour ago, Neverdancedjustamum said:

I thought the same as you @Peanut68 I can think of at least one student who joined just for the final year within the last 2 years. I thought RBS has offered the degree programme for a good few years now, maybe last 4 years. And I always thought a few students leave at the end of the second year and are still eligible for some sort of exit award (maybe a Foundation Degree). It does seem a few new ones often from competitions etc join the third year and no one is really assured the full 3 years. But I could be wrong. This is just from what I’ve heard over the last few years. 

Some students are assessed out after 2 years and therefore do not go on to obtain the full degree. They  are not  usually replaced for the third year.

[Birdy]

RBS has officially changed their program. As of this year Upper School students are assessed/have to audition again during their second year if they want to stay for the final year. It seems unfair to students who were told they were being accepted to a 3-year Bachelor’s Degree program when they were initially accepted. My daughter knows two young men who were recently told, at 18, that they will not be invited back for the third year.

[Ruby Foo]

17 minutes ago, Birdy said:

RBS has officially changed their program. As of this year Upper School students are assessed/have to audition again during their second year if they want to stay for the final year. It seems unfair to students who were told they were being accepted to a 3-year Bachelor’s Degree program when they were initially accepted. My daughter knows two young men who were recently told, at 18, that they will not be invited back for the third year.

Couldn't agree more. As they are not generally taking in more students for 3rd year, then why not keep all of them and let them get their degree.

[Dancers Dad]

Northern Ballet School in Manchester takes 18 year olds.

[Maryy]

4 hours ago, Kate_N said:

@Maryy the main things are going to be your level of training, talent/ability, and your body's facility for ballet. The schools mentioned take the top students of their age group in the pool of auditioning students. What sort of level are you currently training at? You mention RAD - what examinations have you taken & what were your results? 

 

Because if you're not outstanding in terms of training, ability, and facility, then you need to think really carefully about what you do next, and what benefits & opportunities you'll receive for the fees and living costs of studying internationally. It is possible to have a very satisfying career in dance without dancing in a classical ballet company - a degree in dance will give you training to be a teacher, a community arts worker, an arts producer professional just to name a few destinations for graduates.

I'm currently training at the intermediate level, and I'm going to take an exam this year. I haven't gotten my intermediate foundation results yet (I hope I can get my marks as soon as possible). My results from pre-primary to grade 5 are distinctions, but I know these marks don't define a lot. 

 

My studio only offers training 3 days a week (I can't blame them for not offering more days to train as they need to teach so many students). I know it's very little, so I practice a lot outside the studio (of course I find someone to guide me and make sure the way I practise is correct and effective). 

 

I'm planning to move to a new school/studio that offer more professional training in the future.

[Jewel]

How old are you Maryy?

 

As a general rule most 16 year olds auditioning for what we call Upper School would be working at around Advanced 1 level although they may not have actually taken the exams.  Also ballet schools are looking for something beyond just ballet exam syllabus work, it's that extra special something.  

 

It is at this age that many realise that becoming a pure ballet dancer is unrealistic and that they stand much more chance of a performing career if they diversify into other forms of dance too.  

 

Could you perhaps arrange a consultation lesson with a teacher from the school who offers more professional training?

[Maryy]

@Jewel I'm 15 this year. I'm not sure if I can arrange it... but I would try to make this happen.

[Kate_N]

Jewel's advice is excellent - before you set your heart on a particular school or course, it would be useful to be assessed by someone who hasn't taught you, but understands what qualities are needed to be accepted into vocational (pre-professional) training with a view to a career in dance. 

 

As @Jewel says, exams aren't everything, but at this distance, it gives posters an idea of your training level, in order to give you sound advice. 

[glowlight]

It sounds as if you are taking a very considered approach to this @Maryy.  It is good that you are discussing this with your family first as you really need their support in this career choice, both emotionally and financially

 

Most ballet dancers who train in the UK start full time training when they are 16 or younger, but there always exceptions to the rule.  However those exceptions will usually have had exceptional training close to home (I think that is probably the case with Hannah Martin).  

 

There are 2 UK vocational ballet schools which to my knowledge often take 18 year olds into their first year.  

Rambert School of Ballet and Contemporary Dance

Northern Ballet School

 

My daughter went to Northern Ballet School some years ago and there were many 18 year olds (and older) who started with her.  Most of them went on to have careers in dance, but to be honest I don't think many the stayed in classical ballet.

 

I would definitely talk to your teacher about your ambitions.  They may be able to suggest ways to enhance your training, maybe adding extra classes at a different studio in addition to the classes that they are able to offer.

 

 

 

 

 

[DD Driver]

Queensland Ballet's Academy has a pre-pro year for those who have completed senior schooling. As many students in Australia lost opportunities in the last 2 years, the ballet schools have extended their pre-pro options.  That is probably the case with the National Theatre Ballet School in Melbourne, that you mentioned  @Maryy

 

https://www.queenslandballet.com.au/academy/academy-programs/pre-professional-program

[Maryy]

1 hour ago, DD Driver said:

Queensland Ballet's Academy has a pre-pro year for those who have completed senior schooling. As many students in Australia lost opportunities in the last 2 years, the ballet schools have extended their pre-pro options.  That is probably the case with the National Theatre Ballet School in Melbourne, that you mentioned  @Maryy

 

https://www.queenslandballet.com.au/academy/academy-programs/pre-professional-program

Thank you for letting me know!

[balletbean]

On 01/03/2022 at 20:38, Birdy said:

RBS has officially changed their program. As of this year Upper School students are assessed/have to audition again during their second year if they want to stay for the final year. It seems unfair to students who were told they were being accepted to a 3-year Bachelor’s Degree program when they were initially accepted. My daughter knows two young men who were recently told, at 18, that they will not be invited back for the third year.

Gosh, that’s harsh but was the decision based purely on their skills as a dancer or could there have been issues arising on the academic side of the Degree?  Like other Uni students who ‘fail’ their year end exams. 
 

On the subject of finances. What happens if a pupil has taken out a student loan for the BA course but now finds themselves (not by choice) being unable to return and therefore complete their final yr? 

[Jewel]

1 hour ago, balletbean said:

Gosh, that’s harsh but was the decision based purely on their skills as a dancer or could there have been issues arising on the academic side of the Degree?  Like other Uni students who ‘fail’ their year end exams. 
 

On the subject of finances. What happens if a pupil has taken out a student loan for the BA course but now finds themselves (not by choice) being unable to return and therefore complete their final yr? 

I have no personal experience of RBS but Student Finance is applied for on a year by year basis.  if a student does not continue into their final year usually they graduate with a Certificate of Higher Education (Year 1) or a Diploma of Higher Education (Year 2)

[balletbean]

1 hour ago, Jewel said:

I have no personal experience of RBS but Student Finance is applied for on a year by year basis.  if a student does not continue into their final year usually they graduate with a Certificate of Higher Education (Year 1) or a Diploma of Higher Education (Year 2)

Aah thank you. The Student Loan scheme is very different from the funding scheme in my jurisdiction. Always keen to learn about others. 🎓