Adult/student continuing grades while at university, but complicated

[Polik]

 

Disclaimer: I understand there is many threads on topics talked about here but I just needed to collate them, and I do not know exactly where I was meant to post this, or what tags...Just chose two which would prompt the best outcome (an ISTD adult class in Glasgow).

Hi, I am a 17 year old male, (well would be 18 when this is relevant) anyway, so I'm currently doing Grade 6 ISTD (will be doing the exam this summer), I have been dancing since I was 7 doing grades 1-2 with RAD but started ISTD at 11 with a different teacher as I did not like her. But I do not wish a career in dance, so I am going to university to study in september. However I want to continue ballet as a hobby and I hope to get the grade 8 at least or even intermediate during my 5 year course, as  I do really enjoy it, I'm just too introverted to become a performer/do it professionally. The problem is  I will be going to Glasgow to study, from Cardiff, and I do not know why but I cannot seem to find any ISTD teachers/schools there, I have looked at the Scottish Ballet's classes but like I said I would like to grade in it (unless anyone can suggest one). There are however quite a few RAD schools so I was wondering (and I know there are lots of posts about this but I had multiple questions and this just saves time) If it would be easy enough to go from Grade 6 ISTD and starting Grade 7 RAD straight away? As I do enjoy the technicality of ISTD as to me it is quite academic needing to know every step by step by it's name and the teacher just blurting a load of french and you just knowing what it is, that is fun. How different is it to RAD? Another point is that there are few 'Adult' classes, as I indeed will be an adult,  well at least for grades, I have not asked any school that does adult classes whether grades are possible, as I do not just want to do ballet, I want the grades, I want the set work, what should i do about this? I could get private lessons, but as I will be a student I want to bask in the small but meaningful price difference of group lessons, and I also enjoy the camaraderie of group lessons, especially if the teacher isn't too strict, like spend 50-55 mins dancing and the rest having a little bit of fun now and then. Anyone/anyone's children received lessons in Glasgow area? Or can answer my two questions? I could in fairness do more research but this is a start. Thanks....Oh another thing is that I have considered joining the dance society at University as they do Ballet, I also do a little contemporary. The problem is with my knowledge is that it is all if not 99% female, and a male of my age doing ballet as a hobby is almost unheard of, so should I join? I do not mind the stigma that might come of it, just wondering people's views?

[RHowarth]

Hi! Is this imperial or Cecchetti? Maureen Christie teaches Cecchetti in Glasgow. 

Edited February 21, 2019 by RHowarth

[Polik]

Pretty sure it is imperial, I've never seen the word Cecchetti on any of my certificates/anywhere else before. Is Cecchetti similar?

Edited February 21, 2019 by Polik

[Ruby Foo]

There are very few ISTD ballet teachers in Scotland, if any. There are plenty of schools who do ISTD modern and tap and RAD ballet.

The RAD grades do not put so much emphasis on knowing the meaning of the French terminology and do not have so many ‘ free enchainments ‘ ( on the spot unseen work given by the examiner). That’s a simplified comparison I’m afraid,  but otherwise they follow similar criteria and you should easily be able to switch. Scottish Ballet do adult ballet classes - they are very popular and you need to book early.

[Ruby Foo]

Also, might be worth looking at Royal Conservatoire. They do adult contemporary classes.

[Colman]

Go join the  ballet society. They’ll likely be delighted to have you, especially if you’re willing to perform with them.

 

ISTD set work seems to me (as an adult student of much more advanced age doing classes in both) to be (on average) simpler than RAD but almost all the RAD stuff is set while the ISTD has all that hilariously stressful free work. You should be able to switch from one to the other, it might set you back six months while you adjust to the different way of doing things, but you’re not in a rush from the sounds of things. RAD require learning a dance and a character dance for the exams rather than just one dance. 

[Mummy twinkle toes]

There is one in Midlothian which teaches ISTD ballet and RAD vocationals

http://www.southsidedance.co.uk/pdf/timetable-midlothian.pdf

It is an hour’s drive from Glasgow.

There are also vocational schools in Scotland which offer classes and teach RAD to a high standard.

[BeaverElliot]

@Polik Here are a few thoughts based on the experiences of an adult late starting male...

 

1. Wherever you train, there is bound to be an abundance or dominance of female students (and, more often, teachers).  This has a few implications for us ballet-inclined guys, including I doubt that you will be able to pick up male technique as readily (as compared to training in a pre-pro academy environment where there are many male student peers who attend male technique classes together as part of their vocational development curriculum).

 

Given that you have been following the ‘graded examination track’ approach all along (starting out with RAD 1,2; then switching over to ISTD) want to continue in this vein, and don’t wish to pursue ballet as a potential career, your development as a male classical dance artist will be, by definition, shaped and constrained by the graded curriculum structure.  I don’t know the ISTD curriculum, whereas I know that the RAD does prescribe technical requirements that are MALE-specific starting from (around) grade 3 I believe; so this could be a PLUS for you I would think.  it would depend on how important you think it is for you to be developing masculine ballet traits, ballet being traditionally so very binary, so to speak.  (If the ISTD curriculum also does prescribe male-specific technical moves and choreography in its syllabi, then perhaps somebody with knowledge of same can provide some details for you below.) Girls will work on pointe eventually in the more senior grades, whether under RAD, Cecchetti, Vaganova (and I suppose ISTD too). But boys ought to be able to acquire masculine bravura know how as they develop, I am of the opinion.

 

Another consideration for you might be that the RAD offers two streams (as does Cecchetti; I am not sure about ISTD once again), namely: graded (“recreational”) and vocational (“pre-pro”) streams.  The former syllabi run grades 1 through 8, and I believe is meant to parallel a students’s life from roughly ages 8-18, so around 10 years from childhood through one’s teenage years.  The latter syllabi are Intermediate Foundation, Intermediate, Advanced Foundation, Advanced 1, Advanced 2 culminating in Solo Seal (if my memory serves me correctly. This scheme supercedes the older /elementary /intermediate /advanced categorizations.). These vocational levels under the RAD are examined.  Depending on who you speak to, what level one is at, one’s capabilities and facility, and one’s age, it is at around grade 5 that a person can move into Intermediate Foundation, that is, switch over from the graded recreational scheme to the examined vocational scheme.  Some talented boys I think have started ballet for the first time by enrolling in Int.Fndn; or went into Int.Fndn after passing their grade 4 exam.

 

Therefore, maybe now is not a bad time for you to assess and confirm your needs for examined syllabus ballet training vis a vis what opportunities and technical pathways might be afforded to you via: continuing to pursue ISTD, switching to RAD graded, or to RAD vocational (even though for the latter you don’t aspire to a career).  Because... Int.Fndn and Intermediate vocational classes for boys might be more available to you than classes for grades 6-8 for boys, given student demand versus school supplier realities.  PLUS the RAD lets you order and purchase the published male curriculum examination standards, as well as demonstration videos, and I have found these resources to be extremely helpful for understanding and learning male technique in particular as it is all spelled out (including Benish Notation choreogaphy).  I dont know that the other systems (ISTD, Cecchetti, Vaganova) allow their copyright materials to ‘fall into the hands’ of students.  Owning the published curriculum means that you will also be able to learn the terminology (in english and french) associated with all of the prescribed techniques, enchainements, etc. (I speak a bit of French and, like you, like to master the ballet vocabulary, espressions and descriptions!). The RAD also publishes their ‘blue book’ (and more advanced ‘red book’) which explains  all of the RAD technical material that an RAD-accredited teacher is expected to know.)

 

2. Regarding Open (drop in) Adult Classes... my experience in this realm has been that rarely is this approach examined in accordance with a graded syllabus (because there is so low of a demand for such training formats).  The range of ability of participants varies and the level and frequency of technical corrections provided varies from low to medium, not up at the higher level needed to pass examinations. So if corrections and technical proficiency and progressive mastery are important to you, then you will need to research whether the open adult class opportunities available to you will truly meet your needs.  

 

3. As an emerging adult classical dance enthusiast and amateur artist who is male, do you wish to learn to partner female danseuses (pas de deux, trois, quartre, cinq)?  Do you ever wish to perform? These might be other aspects for you to take into consideration as you look at entering into higher grade or intermediate vocational classes.

 

4. Regarding university student ballet groups... this was one of the best ways I have ever found to develop as an adult, late starting, male dancer... because they typically involve quite accomplished female ballet enthusiasts (technically more proficient than you and me), who like to work on choreography (not just simply barre, centre and across the floor class routines), and are a social, peer age group (unless they hire a non-university student aged teacher or class leader, in which case the learning environment is more similiar to attending a typical secondary school level dance studio or dance school class where there is an adult:young student  i.e. superior:subordinate relationship structure, versus a peer-aged young adult group dynamic, if senior university student ballet dancers lead junior university student ballet dancers)... it is a way different and beneficial vibe and dynamic from a typical studio (dance instruction business) learning experience in my estimation, students leading and teaching their fellow students who are peer groupies. (And by the time you reach your final year at uni, you can possibly also be in a position or and elected or appointed peer leadership role within the dancer grouo to lead juniors and ‘give back’ some of what you have been fortunate to have acquired over your years of dancing.  The leadership experience can also help to strengthen your CV for after you have graduated, is another plus.)

 

These are just my broad oversights and generalizations (and evidence-based beliefs), so should you or others desire clarification or further explanation if I have not been clear, or have struck a chord, please do comment to that effect below as I am very interested to learn what other people have experienced or heard of.  Research is a good thing!

 

 

 

Edited February 22, 2019 by BeaverElliot
typo

[youngatheart]

In ISTD, Grade 6 is the last of the graded exams anyway, so if you are doing it this summer and wanted to stick with ISTD, you should be looking for an Intermediate Foundation or Intermediate class. If you wanted to move to RAD I would make the same suggestion - the RAD Higher Grades 6-8 are totally different from what you are used to - more dancey, all set, and less technical. Hope this helps.

[BeaverElliot]

@youngatheart so do you mean to say that the ISTD offers their own versions of Int.Fndn and Intermediate levels?  (And if so, then how would they compare to the RAD’s versions, I wonder.)

Very helpful to learn about the final graded ISTD level!

Edited February 22, 2019 by BeaverElliot

[BeaverElliot]

Polik wrote:

“Pretty sure it is imperial, I've never seen the word Cecchetti on any of my certificates/anywhere else before. Is Cecchetti similar?”

 

Cecchetti methodology or approach is the ballet dance genre (‘faculty’) formally affiliated to and incorporated with the ISTD, according to their website:

 

https://www.istd.org/about-us/documents/istd-cecchetti-faculty-history/1istd-cecchetti-history.pdf

Edited February 22, 2019 by BeaverElliot

[Colman]

27 minutes ago, youngatheart said:

If you wanted to move to RAD I would make the same suggestion - the RAD Higher Grades 6-8 are totally different from what you are used to - more dancey, all set, and less technical. Hope this helps.

 

Since you’re doing them recreationally, I’d take whatever you can get, or both - the graded exams are quite different, but that’s not a bad thing. 

[Colman]

@BeaverElliot the ISTD have a pretty comprehensive website and shop where you can download and/or order their curriculum materials to your heart’s content.

[BeaverElliot]

2 hours ago, BeaverElliot said:

@youngatheart so do you mean to say that the ISTD offers their own versions of Int.Fndn and Intermediate levels?  (And if so, then how would they compare to the RAD’s versions, I wonder.)

Very helpful to learn about the final graded ISTD level!

 

From ISTD’s web shop it appears that there are general examined grades (up to grade 6), and class examination levels (up to level 8).

 

Both the Imperial Classical Ballet and the Cecchetti Classical Ballet faculties provide distinct Int.Fnd and Intermediate syllabi.

 

Edited February 22, 2019 by BeaverElliot

[Ruby Foo]

Whatever you decide to do you will find Glasgow to be a very forward thinking city with loads happening on the arts front and plenty dance workshops.

[Polik]

Thanks for everyone's replies, although I have been doing ISTD for some time now I never actually realised it only went up to grade 6 , but thinking about this it actually makes sense as there was a girl in a higher class that was doing intermediate, but none doing 'grade 7 or 8' as I guess they never existed. So yeah this does sound interesting, and the RAD stuff sounds okay but I don't really want 'dancy' ironically I love technical activities, stuff I have to really try hard to perfect and perform, but the intermediate adult classes seem to be the most promising out of the lot.

@BeaverElliot Thanks for your reply especially, I will comment on each thing in your form:

 

1. You have made RAD sound very promising, especially with the vocational path, ISTD do indeed have lots of male orientated work I think as early as grade 2 (where it was probably one or two set work and the dance), As I went up the grades I had more and more that differed for the female counterparts, emphasising on strength and 'power', but also balance. A lot of the male orientated set work is a lot faster, or includes a greater amount of grande allegro. ALthough for my Grade 5 exam I did do the female dance, just adapted the arm positions to be more masculine, especially for the intro (only ISTD dancers would understand 😃). But yeah I will investigate the RAD intermediate.

 

2. Yes I indeed will need to research this about what the adult classes involve, but with the knowledge that there isn't really any more grades, excluding intermediate then I really do not have much to worry about, I just do not want to go to something and not learn much, I have a thirst for knowledge it must be met, although if I do go to a different dance authority e.g. RAD then I probably will have to learn the 'basics' of that form, although I'm sure they'd be quickly picked up. But my research into whatever school/class I choose will give me the answers on this.

 

3. Hmm, I do kinda want to perform, never really had much thought on it, but yeah performing I am interested in, and also with pas de deux I wouldn't mind learning that or at least attempting it, but I don't know where to start this outside professional colleges/schools. As I do enjoy watching ballet at the theater and duets are some of my favourite things and it'd be nice to at least give it a try. I wouldn't mind performing even if it's amaturly.

 

4. Indeed University groups do sound good, as previously said I wouldn't mind performing. And it would be nice to be taught by students, and it'd also perhaps allow me to learn different steps/phrases from RAD or other forms, and I could teach them about ISTD. Also with my breadth of knowledge of steps I probably could help choreograph some of the performances, although I'm sure that there will be a good few there that will have more experience than me as I started ISTD fairly later than the usual person. And they might be able to suggest schools, I'll definitely look out for them in freshers fair. And it is a method of making a few friends, even if the are probably all female, not a problem with that. 😊

 

But yeah again thanks for everyone's replies.

 

 

 

 

 

[BeaverElliot]

@Polik 

 

a) I think it’s not the age at which you start, so much as what level you are currently attaining. Some people start later but catch up; some start earlier but are slower so take longer to progress to reach the equivalent stage; it depends on factors like one’s natural talent, number of hours invested per week, focus and determination, quality of teaching, etc.  As you are near the end of ISTD’s graded (elementary) technical level, you can probably soon consider yourself to be entering the intermediate level technically.  You have acquired the basic technical and artistic skills and can continue to build on this base.  Open adult classes at a (true) intermediate (and advanced) level will surely be technically challenging for you, so appealing.  But these classes are not meant to lead to an examinable standard, unless it is, say, adult ISTD or RAD Intermediate, or another examined technical syllabus.  The class will be taught whatever the specific teacher happens to desire, it will be up to them generally, I think is how it usually works out.  So what you will be taught technically will be influenced by whatever style or approach the teacher is bent on delivering; it will be up to her or him, what he or she knows stylistically how to deliver. If you go to different intermediate class providers you probably will be taught different things at an intermediate level, there won’t be standardization.  Nothing wrong with this variation in offerings, so long as the technique you are shown is of a good, high quality and you are finding the process enjoyable and satisfying technically.

 

b) I have been exposed to RAD, Cecchetti, Vaganova, Bolshoi, Balanchine and Bournonville classes and teachers.  These are various styles or approaches to ballet learning, like your ISTD training is as well.  My point is, that if you possess the basics in any one (or more) of the styles, then the concepts and techniques you have already learned will be nominally transferrable and applicable to some degree (though not interchangable with) among the various formats, generally speaking.  Meaning that they all share things in common (they are all ballet after all e.g. port de bras, use of head, line, alignment; they all share root principles governed by physics, classical dance aesthetics and biomechanics), so you dont have to go right back down to the junior grades of another system in order to follow it; you simply adapt and adjust so as to transition to the different approach.  In fact, some believe in mastering or specializing in only one style ‘purely’, whereas others believe that drawing from multiple styles can make you into a more versatile artist.  (If you have learned to cook hamburgers at Wimpy’s, then you can probably adjust to cooking hamburgers at MacDonald’s without having to start over back at square one, is a very crude analogy.) That being said, the terminology will vary inconsistently (e.g. different terms used for same move; same term used for different moves; same word used differently; wall and corner numbering systems vary yet all ways are based on an octagon).

 

So no matter how you can approach next year, I think you can find the sort of technical challenges you seek.

Edited February 23, 2019 by BeaverElliot

[Polik]

@BeaverElliot Indeeds it should prove challenging which is what I like, although I have moved a little off wanting exact grades as my Grade 6 being close to the 'end', I will look for the intermediate ones. I never thought that I'd have to start from the beginning, but yeah the terminology will be different and that is what I'll have to get to grips with, but that is part of the learning curve. Anyways thanks for all your help, I now know where to angle my research,  hopefully I find something that ticks most of the boxes if not all of them.

[ParentTaxi]

Very briefly on ISTD:

 

- It has 2 'variants' - Cecchetti and Imperial ballet - which are separately taught, separately managed by the exam board, and separately examined.

 

- DD dances at an all-ISTD school, and has indeed swapped to the vocational grades after Grade 6 / InterFoundation (those 2 are at a very similar level).

 

- Class graded examinations for 7 and 8 are available, Intermediate and Adv 1 would be the vocational 'equivalents'.

 

- My understanding is that the vocational ISTD grades, like the normal graded exams, differ primarily from RAD in the significant emphasis on free work [I love the description 'hilariously stressful' - for DD it is just 'how ballet is done'!] BUT that the vocational RAD grades have more free work than the graded exams so in some ways a switch to RAD for the vocational grades wouldn't be such a change. However another local ISTD school interleaves RAD vocational grades with ISTD ones, so at the higher grades at least there seems to be no great difficulty in sliding between the two exam boards.

[RHowarth]

I did a Cecchetti major in my late 20s after having trained and been examined before that almost entirely in RAD (apart from some teachers when I was at university who may have had other influences). I did that because I'd been taking classes in the Cecchetti method and wanted to learn more about it - and the reason I was taking those classes is that, where I was living at the time (Newcastle) the adult ballet community was based around Cecchetti teachers - they were the ones who took adult students the most seriously and offered advanced adult classes and more than once a week. My advice to you would be to find an inspirational teacher and learn whatever method they use - it's all ballet, after all, and it's good to understand the differences between the methodologies. 

Edited February 25, 2019 by RHowarth

[Kate_N]

12 hours ago, RHowarth said:

My advice to you would be to find an inspirational teacher and learn whatever method they use - it's all ballet, after all, and it's good to understand the differences between the methodologies. 

 

Bravo for this approach!

 

I never really understand the focus on particular curricula & syllabi - they are a means to an end. THe exams are simply way posts to show you your progress from an outsider's point of view. 

 

Ballet is ballet. I've studied RAD and Cechetti syllabi, and can show you in my body, the basic differences between them - but they are of nuance and style, not differences in the fundamentals. As adults, I think we are capable of adapting to and learning from a variety of teaching styles, and we also need the challenge of open/drop in classes, where we have to learn simple choreography in the exercises at the barre & centre. The effort of remembering the exercise set on each class, plus executing it with as best a level of technique as we have, sets up far more active learning (proprioception) than repeating the same exercise in every class. This is the principle of cross training in athletics: you never let your body get used to doing only one thing in a regular pattern.

 

To find university towns with good ballet, or good adult ballet in places where you might study at university, try searching the "adult ballet" tag. I started a thread specifically for information about good cities/towns for adults to continue a serious study of ballet while at university. I'll try to find it & bump it.

I teach in a related field in a university, and my caution about student dance societies is that often it's peer-led teaching, and not good teaching, unfortunately. The AD of my home studio recently gave a student an opportunity to teach one of our regular adult ballet classes, as this person needed some teaching experience, but it wasn't a particularly good experience for me. The quality of the teaching wasn't great - the student still has a lot to learn about teaching in all sorts of ways.

 

Any large city - Glasgow, Edinburgh, Birmingham, Manchester, Newcastle - has excellent adult dance studios. I'll try to find the thread with some first hand experience of these cities for adults.

[Kate_N]

Here's the older thread about cities good for adult ballet students, wit first-hand experiences of classes

 

 

[amum/Cathy]

I've just come across this thread. Good luck finding suitable opportunities to continue your dance Polik. I agree with Kate that university dance societies are a mixed bag in terms of the teaching (depends very much on the students studying there at any one time) but definitely join up and make friends there if dance is important to you. Also opportunities to choreograph and try teaching. My ds is in his final year at Warwick and has had an amazing time in their dance societies, including tap, and has been teaching, choreographing, performing, and competing in inter university competitions. Last year they were competing at Loughborough and had Steven McCrae of the Royal Ballet as one of the judges. Ds has more or less decided he wants to teach dance, or perform after his (humanities) degree, but he already had his Advanced 2 ballet before he went to Warwick so the lack of syllabus classes over the last 3 years won't count too badly against him, hopefully. Just exploring his options at the moment.

[Kate_N]

What a great story, amum/Cathy!

 

I think it's really useful to read these stories of people who may not "make it" - to the RBS, or Tring, or ENBS, or wherever. But they train to a high level, and have a wonderful, enriching, creative hobby for the rest of their lives. It's a good story for younger dancers who have their hearts set on a high-level dance career, but don't quite get there. They have a lifelong, beautiful skill.

 

My extra-curricular "hobby" together with my PhD got me  my first job, and I use my "hobby" and my dance studies in my job everyday. I'm never going to be a professional in those areas, but they contribute to my work as a teacher and researcher.

Edited February 26, 2019 by Kate_N

[amum/Cathy]

Ahh thank you Kate. And your story too!

 

[amum/Cathy]

If anyone is interested in seeing the standard of dance at university, the Loughborough interuniversities' dance competition is the biggest and the best and is usually live streamed by the university's student TV channel. It is on the 10th and 11th March and the link is posted on the following Facebook page, generally on the day itself, sometimes the day before. https://www.facebook.com/lborodancecomp/ 

[BeaverElliot]

@Cathy

Great to hear that the mixed uni society bag (my experience as well) worked out well for your DS.  This was exactly my point, that there are some unique and worthwhile ballet-related opportunities that only are available when packaged as a unisociety, despite the potential for uneven quality.  Real teachers and peer teachers are not the same product (obviously) but university life is meant to be a broadening experience of growing self discovery and independence.  Normal ballet delivery is so hierarchial, strict, obedient and predictable, right? Surely 6-8 years of this provides a terrific base of discipline. University is a new chapter and a chance for emerging adults to try on other models and approaches.  Some uni students find the time to do both society and adult classes.

[BeaverElliot]

Just now, BeaverElliot said:

@Cathy

Great to hear that the mixed uni society bag (my experience as well) worked out well for your DS.  This was exactly my point, that there are some unique and worthwhile ballet-related opportunities that only are available when packaged as a unisociety, despite the potential for uneven quality.  Real teachers and peer teachers are not the same product (obviously) but university life is meant to be a broadening experience of growing self discovery and independence.  Normal ballet delivery is so hierarchial, strict, obedient and predictable, right? Surely 6-8 years of this provides a terrific base of discipline. University is a new chapter and a chance for emerging adults to try on other models and approaches.  Some uni students find the time to do both society and adult classes. But for the ballet purists at heart or the ballet career bound there are academies / conservatories (where you can earn college credits on the side), or university dance fine arts degree programs.  So different strokes for different folks depending on their specific needs.

 

[BeaverElliot]

Kate made some interesting points for me... (My ideas are set off  in UPPER CASE, not shouting, as I can’t embolden or italicize).

 

Bravo for this approach! /AGREED INDEED

 

I never really understand the focus on particular curricula & syllabi - they are a means to an end.

The exams are simply way posts to show you your progress from an outsider's point of view. 

IT COULD BE A GUY THING HERE, WHERE THE MEANS IS ALSO AN IMPORTANT CONSIDERATION I VENTURE.

 

Ballet is ballet. I've studied RAD and Cechetti syllabi, and can show you in my body, the basic differences between them - but they are of nuance and style, not differences in the fundamentals. EXACTLY; TURN OUT IS TURN OUT. HAMBURGERS AND BUNS!

 

As adults, I think we are capable of adapting to and learning from a variety of teaching styles, and we also need the challenge of open/drop in classes, where we have to learn simple choreography in the exercises at the barre & centre. The effort of remembering the exercise set on each class, plus executing it with as best a level of technique as we have, sets up far more active learning (proprioception) than repeating the same exercise in every class.

 

PRRIOCEPTION IS SENSING INTUITIVELY WHERE ONE’S BODY IS IN SPACE, SO WHETHER SET MOVEMENTS OR FREE ONES, CORRECTIONS (AND VIDEO) WILL ENABLE ONE TO VERIFY (IMPROVE) THE ACURACY OF ONE’S SENSE I BELIEVE.

 

REPEATING EXACT MOVEMENTS AND PERFECTING THE MOST MINUTE DETAILS (REPRODUCABLE PRECISION WITH ARTISTRY,  MUSICALITY, ETC.) ARE WHAT PROFESSIONAL DANCERS ARE CALLED UPON TO DO TO PREPARE FOR PERFORMANCE, IS ANOTHER WAY TO LOOK AT ROUTINES. CHOREOGRAPHY IS ‘SET’ ON DANCERS AFTER ALL.  (I WOULD EXPECT SET BARRE AND CENTRE EXERCISES IDEALLY TO RELATE TO THE CHOREOGRPAHY FOR THE MOST PART and VICE VERSA.)

 

This is the principle of cross training in athletics: you never let your body get used to doing only one thing in a regular pattern.

DOES THE RAD SYLLABUS LACK IN VARIETY?  DO MORE VAGANOVA OR CECCHETTI OR RAD ADVANCED STUDENTS DO BETTER AT VARNA, GENEE AND OTHER TOP ADJUDICATED ASSESSMENTS (ADJUSTED FOR THE RELATIVE POPULATIONS OF EACH COMMUNITY OF ADHERENTS) I WONDER.  HOW DOES EACH STACK UP STATISTICALLY SPEAKING?  

Edited February 27, 2019 by BeaverElliot

[taxi4ballet]

4 hours ago, BeaverElliot said:

DOES THE RAD SYLLABUS LACK IN VARIETY?  DO MORE VAGANOVA OR CECCHETTI OR RAD ADVANCED STUDENTS DO BETTER AT VARNA, GENEE AND OTHER TOP ADJUDICATED ASSESSMENTS (ADJUSTED FOR THE RELATIVE POPULATIONS OF EACH COMMUNITY OF ADHERENTS) I WONDER.  HOW DOES EACH STACK UP STATISTICALLY SPEAKING?  

The Genee is a competition run by the RAD and you have to have passed RAD Adv2 with distinction to be able to enter.

 

Relatively few British students take part in other international competitions and those that do are usually in full-time vocational training already and as such, will not be studying a specific examining body syllabus per se.

[Moomin]

Vaganova and cecchetti are training methods and philosophies of movement conceived by one person and handed down through generations whereas the RAD is an examing body so you’re not really comparing like with like. There are syllabi for those methods in this country but there are different ones in other countries based on the original principles. There will also be cecchetti and vaganova trained dancers who haven’t done exams. So the dancers won’t have had the exact same training as each other, whereas RAD syllabus is the same internationally I believe. So you can’t really compare although as someone has already highlighted vocational students need to be versatile and won’t just study any one syllabus

[BeaverElliot]

Could we say that all three or four of the approaches under discussion share a common end goal (if we focus only upon vocationally oriented training and recognize that each approach defines its own top (advanced) level, one that corresponds generally with the mid to late teenage years); is this a reasonable assertion I wonder?  So there is some sort of rational progression structure in place conceived by design (some kind of syllabus) with or without examinations.  That end goal would be to prepare youth to qualify for entry level into the professional ranks.  Are all of these pathways equally effective at facilitating this aim and is there an objective way for us to know this?  All other things being equal, then one could benefit from pursuing any one of these pathways?

[Kate_N]

Of course. Ballet is ballet.

 

Exams mean very little in the broader scheme of things, except to show that you have studied a particular version of the fundamental ballet repertoire to a certain level. Exams don't necessarily mean a person dances well, or that they've been taught well. Or that the dancer dances badly ... etc etc

 

@BeaverElliot, I found it hard to read your post responding to mine - but you seem overly focused on external qualifications & validation.

 

I think the advantage, fun, fascination, (obsession??) and joy of being an adult ballet student is that we dance for the enjoyment of dancing and learning about this amazing art form. We don't need such validations or qualifications, because we're dancing because we want to.

 

Graded exams give bragging rights perhaps, but honestly - in all my years of adult dancing, I've seen adult dancers with achieved exams who can't point their feet or hold their turn out ... The anxiety about the level of any particular class is real, of course - I feel it myself! And you can ask on messageboards like this - I do all the time!

 

Most studios try to give an idea of the expectations and style of a class in their descriptions. And one can always have a quiet word with a teacher beforehand, to say that you're either stepping up to a more advanced level and will try to follow along and not get in anyone's way, or that you're taking a beginners' class because you need just to focus on basics - I've done both these things, and as long as I follow standard class behaviour & etiquette, it's been fine.

 

So my overall advice to @Polik would be to use the amazing resources of this messageboard - do a search of the threads discussing adult ballet. There's a very loooong thread with useful information, but because it's so long, and includes blog-like posts, it's hard to find the information that might be useful. I'd advise that you play around with the Search function - it's pretty good for this kind of software. I've bumped up a really helpful thread which I hope you'll find useful.

 

And an off-topic tip about how to use this messageboard to @BeaverElliot: it's very easy on this messageboard to quote selectively from other people's posts. You don't have to quote the entirety of someone else's post - just use your mouse or trackpad to select the bit of someone else's post on which you want to comment, and the software will automatically copy it into your message. It's as if it's magic! (I don't enjoy being shouted at in all caps).

Edited February 28, 2019 by Kate_N