Peanut68

Finding things that are being discussed here really interesting - thanks all!

This is another thing I find intriguing…. It seems - culturally - there are few professional paid Ballet contract opportunities in certain regions (Asia I believe one) yet there seems such a huge appetite for many if these countries to produce immensely talented & highly trained dancers - these tending to seek necessarily older years training & employment overseas. And then these same countries often rely on touring companies & galas full of international stars to satisfy their audience desire to see great ballet. Well why don’t these countries see this huge opportunity to create their own companies & schools that can a) provide the training & opportunities to their own talents & b) provide employment rather than lose these dancers overseas & c) grow wonderful ballet for their massive potential audience plus become part of the global ballet world! This is a very basic reflection on this…. By example, I have mentioned elsewhere on forum hue surely it was absurd that a major Japanese corporation sighed a very high monetary value sponsorship (?) deal with the RBS to support Japanese students to attend…..surely their nation would far better benefit from investing that money to create Japan’s own Imperial Ballet Company & associated school/academy. And wow - wouldn’t the world benefit from the establishment of another top level ballet nation? And that’s just one country….

Reading this got me to thinking how things have changed in recent years…..Witt emphasis no longer on open auditions but rather pre-selection by application to usually include video footage. This is another area causing some difficulties as done want very specific studio work, some classical repertoire solos, some a selection of stuff, some a more ‘candidates own choice’ showreel of a variety if footage. So I guess a comp is that platform for a) getting those solos to good performance standard plus getting that much needed footage as must seem to be filmed - and probs better version as it’s an actual performance on a well lit stage with good music reproduction in costume too - so probs better than something cobbled together in a studio. Also gives added value I guess to the costs of preparing & entering a comp as it gives a longer term benefit offering greater potential ROI than merely being offered something at the comp itself! Really wish I’d had my eyes opened to this stuff years ago now… honestly I see less need these days for that vocational UK school year 7-14 (ages 11-20) training & think better routes to a rounded regular education mixed with high level coaching supplemented with competitions - more mirroring high level tennis coaching fur instance? I do worry though about the lack of team playing (so decrease of experience & suitable attitude to being part of day a corps de ballet) I do often wonder for instance how happily that violinist who can play at concert soloist standard & has awards & prizes acknowledging this then settles to working through the ranks starting back row of the third violins….knowing very very few will progress from there to soloist…. Are we creating too many could be stars & not enough for the supporting ‘chorus line’?

Emeralds -as ever, an excellent & informative post….thank you

I think the comp circuit is more about building a profile & getting to be a familiar ‘face’….I think mostly it’s places on offer to attend intensives or to join a course for a week or two (which in turn can be like a trial/audition to see if they like you/you them/wetter funding will be offered etc for offer to join course full time). I’d thought it was for older dancers but realise (especially overseas) it starts much much younger & people build their cv’s on their competition wins/attendances…. I do slightly question the integrity of tax payer funded UK school directors attending, judging & offering places at schools - full or part time. Presumably these places are within the ‘business plan’ & are not taking tax payers money to give freebies to overseas students - who by very nature of being on the comp circuit - can probs well afford to attend regular auditions & pay their way to attend courses. It becomes a bit like badges to wear…. And s bit like the whole bragging thing I recall (that seems to have died didn’t a bit now??) whereby it was not about just being offered a place at a vocational school but about being offered MDS at X, Y & Z schools! Ah the bragging rights this gave (sigh) I used to laugh when someone’s social media said ‘offered a full MDS scholarship to attend x school’ Well, all they really are oversharing is that household income at the very lower levels to justify the maximum tax payer support (quite right if that’s the case) And quite right that government funding vis MDS /DaDa is means tested & a sliding scale of support based in income should make things fairer. Unless this money or bursary funds is then also slung out to comp circuit kids who can well afford to pay…. But, with increasing number of comps & this prizes, I actually can see this route may be a sound investment in the long run as may mean free trials help select right school to then attend…. What a minefield though to navigate where to go, what to dance, who to train with to get comp ready…..I thought you’d who vocational school audition rounds in UK was the maximum stress/time/expense a dance parent had to go through….. add the comp circuit research/investment….. woah….I’m off!!!

But have to bear in mind the likely huge expenses both in terms of entry fees/travel/accommodation… not to me too private coaching (unless a school favourite & so coached ‘in house’) and even I’ve heard that parents pay the travel, hotel & subsistence costs for teacher to travel & attend alongside pupil! Further adds to the elitist feel sadly coming ever back into ballet training…. There never was an even playing field (just like in most high level sports training I guess) but it’s sadly limiting just who makes it….& again engendering very similar styles of dancers to comp winner virtuoso types as opposed to well rounded artist…. My personal opinion & indeed by no means sweeps across board but the do feel in too schools too much same old same old of the super bendy, super turners, super jumpers etc etc but rarely see heart wrenching story telling that can send me to another world & elicit emotions….again all just personal opinion

I remember little small rectangular boxes of chocolate like smarties & revels… they only seemed to be on sale in cinemas & theatres (thinking family performances like pantomimes) They definitely held less than these big ‘grab bags’ now sold so probs were finished pre-show or during interval so much less distracting…. Rather miss them!

She’s an absolute joy & so natural! Did she get to do more TV work? It’s also so well researched & written with perfect blend of information & entertainment! Reminding me why I fell in love with ballet as sadly there’s too much about the who’d ballet world now making me lose some of the joy…not all though 🙂

Nuts that regular supporters of The Royal Ballet it seems do have to go halfway round world to see what should be their ‘birthright’ to see RB founder choreographer on home stage ROH…hmmmm

Oh I almost wish just one episode was shown at a time as I so enjoyed first one shown this evening I want time to just bask in it!

You have indeed set the bar very high! To be fair to my own partner… I did get to book tickets to see Nunez/Bolle in Manon for my Xmas present 🥰

And another area to look at is how the MDS/DaDa money is being spent. Are the taxpayers getting value for money & ROI? Also to know how it is potentially used as a bargaining chip to get/lose students in schools - again, speaking from my family’s own personal experience here.

I was rather intrigued to see the added role of CEO….& this last year does seem to have seen a huge uplift in the seemingly ‘commercial’ side & exploits of RBS - merchandise widely advertised for sale (beyond just by PTA at open days etc as used to be more the norm) plus added online pay to view courses, added non selective day courses, added sign up to teach opportunities such as affiliate program….all money earners…. No bad thing to subsidise UK dancer (well…???) training….If this aids the taxpayer from being relied so heavily upon or plugs shortfall of philanthropic gifts that todays times bring or means less reliance on taking overseas sponsorship aimed at championing specific country students…. No, wait, I think that also is a more recent add on….hmmm 🤔 I personally feel that any educational establishment in the arts such as dance should have 2 separate leads - one for Artistic management & one for ‘running the business’ elements. Perhaps this duel role is partly to blame for reports of (& personal experience of) facts that the AD rarely is seen at UK auditions for the school & for seemingly to not be as personally in tune with (like knowing names of) their students? I once worked for a business membership body that was a registered charity which then had a whole new separate arm called ‘xxx Enterprises’. So, whilst the members all felt cosy that we were a charity & all for their benefit, trust me the ‘Enterprises’ side was very much run along purely commercial money-making lines (with salaries & performance related pay in line with purely commercial ventures). So, yes, profits no doubt were then solely for the ‘charity’ but the Enterprises ‘wrapper’ as I saw it then allowed for much more money to be siphoned off into salaries & business costs (offices etc). Not necessarily a bad thing may one deduce but it could very much angle individuals focus (I speak as one from a sales team so yes, I confess my main goal was in getting my very generous commission from every achieved sales target! And having the wholesome link to the ‘charity’ & it’s roots/connections/kudos did make selling services (often ones available from the purely commercial sector too) that much ‘easier’ in my personal opinion & from my personal experience. I did note a few years ago now that the RAD all of a sudden has RAD Enterprises alongside the charity membership & education body which seemed to take over many of what I guess are the purely money-making things such as merchandise/book sales etc. to make clear I have no personal experience of RAD beyond that of student/parent/ & (expired) membership.

A second series - yes pkease! Surely it’s a no brainier… with Darcey at the helm!

Quite a few wishing our own hubbies could be so amazingly thoughtful & generous with effort/time/funds too! Hero Husband of the Year to you! Very well deserved x

How refreshing to hear of a true 'Open' Audition where you can rock up & give it a go! Sadly rather an expensive & long journey to get there for UK dancers of course....!

I have only ever referred to experiences of my own, my dancing offspring & our family. Where I may have used ambiguous terminology this was only intended to protect offspring & to not name names as they would not wish that. As Ruby Foo states for her offspring - step too far at this point though one maybe that will be taken in the future.

Exactly this. Plus the ace card of schools to not continue funding. Pupils are very much aware of this & are even advised by school employees that this could be an outcome of a situation. This is fact from personal experience.

I am sure I am perhaps not the only person who on this thread or others have had comments blocked as they appeared to not adhere to rules… however, it is very difficult to share personal experiences of offspring when details of those very experiences could identify them explicitly - particularly as there could be elements of abuse and teacher/school bad practise unique to their ‘story’ that their dancing peers of parents or indeed the teachers/schools themselves could recognise & thus know who’s parent is ‘speaking out’. And this in turn is a great example of the air of fear that can follow one even after leaving a school. Perhaps if said offspring had left the whole ballet world behind I would be emboldened to speak up with precise details as I know them to be factual but there is still that shameful fear that those who said they could ‘make them’ & open doors to a career could still - as the unsaid but very much omnipresent subtext at the time implied - break them. So, for the sake of not jeopardising their potential career I have attempted to keep unidentifiable but it does not mean my comments are any less true, any less worthy of sharing. I feel sad that I’m unable to join openly those who can ‘stand up & be counted’ & even more sad that on a ‘safe space’ forum like this I am still unable to share anonymously. (I find it difficult to understand how if one states it’s from a true personal direct experience it is not permissible… surely if names of schools/individuals are withheld then nothing litigious befalls the forum?) Silence is the enemy of justice but my experience of whistle blowing ended with the old adage of ‘shoot the messenger’ And again here I sadly feel silenced & perhaps others may likewise feel unable to share. And this perpetuates the problem & perhaps hides the true volume of experiences that would be shared? I applaud those brave individuals openly sharing with names & details that can be fact checked…. I note mostly they seem to be talking post leaving the industry….I’d be interested how many more could echo their stories from their own experiences but who don’t because they are still within the dance world & thus feel it safer to stay silent.

Ha - back in their day, my dancer wouldn’t audition for Rambert as they felt they didn’t look contemporary enough!! But as they say you have to be in it to win it so congrats to your DD on getting out there & also for already having 2 fantastic offers - great achievement! (Only heard good things about both places but no direct experience to offer insights but I’m sure others on here will)

Can I ask if you assess if the post can be reinstated? ie. fact check with the poster? Am interested to know - thank you

I don’t have personal dance experience myself (younger offspring have….high quality teaching, great facilities) Were I local to there I’d definitely give them a go as get the feeling lessons will be high quality & cater to all levels - good luck! Think they also do adult performances (of dance…. That sounded like it could be misinterpreted 😱😂)

Vyne Academy in Berkhamsted offer lots of adult opportunities & Berko is on the train line that goes to Euston https://vynearts.co.uk/dance/

I guess I do suffer with poor connection often (always when I have something I really want to watch!) A price for rural living!