Cara in NZ

Thank you everyone! Yes, having married a nurse rather than a brain surgeon (dammit), we are always on the lookout for ways to save money. I always hope her dancing is what is important, but our head teacher has been known to veto costumes, so I'm not sure how much leeway I have!

Thanks MiniBallerina, yes it is for AHA. The YouTube link to the variation on their website shows it being danced in the three-quarter length white dress that is slightly nightie-looking, which is what prompted my question. It's quite hard to search, as searches including 'Swan Lake' give you lots of black/white tutus, and 'pas de trois 1st solo' on its own isn't enough!

Oh thank you, Anna! 'Courtiers' would explain the white dresses then (looked a bit Clara-esque to me). I'm just info-gathering before deciding what variation to ask to learn. Not at all sure that entering this is a good plan, but I like to be fully prepared for eventualities!

A girl at our school in New Zealand knows she is going in July. Her mother told me on 20 March.

DD is supposed to enter an Australasian competition in a year and we have been looking at the variation options. I wonder if anyone can help me with what you wear for the Swan Lake pas de trois first solo? I've been looking at YouTube and Google Image and there's a huge range, including white nightdress things with long gauzy sleeves as well as standard village girl outfits like what she has for her Giselle Peasant Pas (as shown in my profile pic). But Giselle is from the Romantic era and Swan Lake is Classical (or is it 'Romantic/Classical'?)? Sorry for the rather specific question but I'm really confused about what on earth they are supposed to wear (hoping for this variation as we are trying to avoid having to get yet another tutu!).

Hannah O'Neill trained in NZ! We are very proud of her! I'm trying to read all the comments before posting but there's an AWFUL LOT (I'm up to page 8). I just wanted to add, when talking about 'British-born' that in terms of the world being a smaller place, there are many of us who were born in the UK but now live in another country, with dual citizenship. Two of my kids were born in the UK but raised in NZ, and the youngest, my DD, was born in NZ but has a British passport through me. So I think it is more complicated than 'British-born' as we all have two passports and can live/work in both countries (as well as the EU and Australia).

Annaliesey, I'm always fascinated by mothers comparing how many hours of dance their child does a week. On Sat one mother (a dance teacher) told me her daughter does 25! In NZ we don't have the full-time at age 11 option, but my DD (age 12) has 8–10 ballet/Pilates/contemporary classes a week, plus Pilates and competition practice. We find that is quite enough, but then she still wants to be a normal kid, and many DC obviously give up on this!

Pictures, I know exactly how you feel. My DD (12) is doing really well but there will always be a kid (or more) who is better. We have tried to take the pressure off my DD by never assuming she wants to do this for a career. So we always talk about "If you want to audition for full-time training...", "If you go to university..." – so she knows she has options and they are there for HER to choose. She is not one of the madly passionate kids who always wants to do more; in fact she has asked to drop her contemporary class so she can have two days off dancing each week. She is quite reserved and I think just needs time to recharge. It seems such a remorseless career that I'm not at all sure it's an option we want to encourage. So we just say it is like being good at a sport or a musical instrument, and we will support her for as long as she wants to do it. That means it's not about "If I don't dance professionally I'll have failed". The kids who feel they *have* to dance are the ones you can't stop. So I don't think we should beat ourselves up about our role. Being the stable support in the background is our job. And for catty mothers, I sit there and smile calmly. If you aren't busting a gut for your kid to be the best in the world, life is so much simpler

When DD was five I looked at the 'most serious' dance school and discounted it (too full-on and terrible parking), and sent her to a local outfit run from church halls. Although her training was fine, she was too old for her grade by age 9 but as the oldest in the school, there was nowhere to move up to. They also didn't do privates or competitions so I had no idea that stuff existed. And then (oh the irony), our school merged with the serious one and she was offered privates and bumped up two grades, which was really hard after being the oldest and best in her class (going from RAD Grade 3 to Inter Foundation). I don't regret it, as she was too shy for competition work when she was younger, but I do chuckle that we ended up at the serious school in spite of my efforts!

Yes, I wonder if some parents start to view their kids as products and see success as 'return on investment'. I've certainly seen some dance mums that you could describe as 'project managers'!

Annaliesey, I read the whole inquiry doc into Davies and also the music teacher. After the music teacher was suspended due to accusations of abuse, parents took their kids out of the performing arts school so he could continue to teach them privately! It honestly seems as if some parents will actually do anything if they think it guarantees fame/success for their kids. The mothers who sent videos/nude pics were being prosecuted too, I think.

Oh well, the Chair of the RAD Board of Examiners is the head teacher at our studio, so if she doesn't mind then I guess it's not compulsory! (We have never had them and I've never seen a NZ dancer wearing one)

Well, they're not compulsory for RAD exams (graded or vocational) here! I guess dance schools set rules and then everyone thinks it's the same everywhere, like putting ribbons on ballet shoes. Perhaps it is all to add to the mystique

Maybe it's an NZ thing, but I have never seen a kid wear one of those weird 'belts' (bits of elastic?). What are they for? Not holding anything up, obvs, but are they meant to help define your waist, or what? I find them a rather quaint idea (and am glad to have one less thing for DD to lose!)

Interesting reading the comments by both Pups_mum and annaliesey – we don't have announcements, just the class and competitor number displayed on a screen beside the stage, so no-one knew there was an extra. And the results are only announced after two or more classes have danced, depending on class size, so you never quite know when results are coming. They are mostly run by volunteer mothers, it seems, who work so hard but there are always glitches. DD is used to dancing to small audiences at competitions – had her first experience of music stopping in the middle of her contemporary, but kept dancing to the end. The theatre went dead silent and she got extra enthusiastic applause at the end. So now she knows how to cope with music AND programme malfunctions!

We are just back from a 4-day competition, 4 hours' drive away, and I'm chuckling as I read this. It's the same in NZ – why would mothers criticise dancing happening on stage without considering that the dancer's mother/family are probably sitting within earshot? I hate any talking during dancing, but at this competition a family in the front row were taking photos of each other during a dance, and then the dad got up from the middle of the row DURING A DANCE and ambled along the row and out of the theatre. And my DD had a dance put into the wrong category, so I got it moved but she was at the end and not listed on the programme – so before her dance everyone thought the class had finished and there was a mass exodus as she was about to come onstage. My poor DD!

Pfft, here is a rider to my rave about the Capezio convertible duffle... last week, just before ballet (OF COURSE) the zip pull came off entirely, and DD was panicking as her gear was all inside with no way to undo the zip! I forced it open, and now we have forced the zip pull back on and sewed behind it to anchor it. But after 6 months of use, I can't say I'm impressed. She has been using the backpack straps, but I think we would look at a normal backpack next time. The only trouble is that she will already be wearing one to school, so when she has dance straight from school, I'm not sure a second backpack will work. Maybe we'll end up with a wheelie case, even though the girls who use them always look Very Serious!

Hi marieact, I know nothing about the scheme, but from our own audition experience they are mainly looking for 'potential' in the younger kids, which includes body type/build, flexibility and alignment – and obviously at the audition they are looking at musicality etc. They may select people to audition from photos, I suppose? Our Scholars scheme auditions all applicants but still asks for head and full-length photos.

I have a 20-yr-old (non-DD) who had/has very oily skin. The GP put her on long-term low-dose antibiotics when she was 13, but they cost £20 a month and we didn't see enough difference to justify the cost. She eventually went on a low-dose contraceptive pill at 17, which has helped but not cleared it up. My DD, who is 12, is starting to get pimples, and yes they sweat a lot. I'm also concerned about the effect of stage make-up on blemishes! I am encouraging her to wash the sweat off after class, and she has a 'youth formula' facial wash she uses morning and night. She needs braces too – so much fun ahead for our little darlings! (Edited to add to be wary of Roaccutane, as I believe use in teenage years has been linked with depression/psychological problems later on. We had a university student babysitter whose dermatologist father put her on it in her early teens and she had major mental health issues. When I looked it up, it was a recognised thing, poor girl. I hope there are safer options available now, 15 years on.)

Just wanted to say that last night we went to see the Royal New Zealand Ballet and they did 'In the Middle, Somewhat Elevated'. WOW!!!

I'm so happy to see this thread, even though it may seem discouraging to some! My DD is 12 and in our 'Scholars' (JA) scheme this year. If they are still there at 16, they are expected to audition for full-time training, but my DD is far from sure she wants to be a dancer. Although I've suggested she doesn't publicise this to her dance teachers, I'm quite happy for her to make up her mind when she is older (or if she is assessed out, it may help her make the decision!). Her other choice is to be a doctor, so that means that academic stuff can't slide. We're just aiming to keep her options open for as long as possible. Yesterday a dance mother was telling me how her 9-yr-old has been identified as 'very talented', and I tried to be enthusiastic... but I'm quite realistic now that it's not a fabulous career unless it's the *only* thing in the world you want to do! Edited to add: The best thing by far about dancing has been the increase in confidence it has given a fundamentally shy and cautious child. That is something I think she will keep whether she carries on dancing or not. So I'm grateful for all the opportunities it has given her to bring her out of her shell and allow her to shine!

My DD's teacher was careful to be very neutral/objective about auditioning, possibly in case of disappointment. First JA attempt (Yr 7) she said "Yes, audition, but know that it could go either way" – and it was a no. Second attempt (Yr 8), I emailed her to ask if she thought it was a good idea; she said 'let's discuss', and then never raised it again. DD auditioned anyway, more because I was trying to help her learn resilience, and she got in. Teacher's response was that it was well deserved, and a wonderful opportunity. I know the head of the school isn't so keen on the scheme, but only I think because the JA programme expects you to prioritise their classes over dance school commitments and competitions. (I think our 'Scholars' scheme in NZ is a bit different – at Yr 8 they have two ballet classes plus one Pilates every week of term, plus the two girls who've joined at Yr 8 are being encouraged to do the Yr 7 Pilates class as well to help them catch up. So that's an extra 4 hours a week on top of the usual 7 hours of ballet/contemporary. Conflicts are going to happen!)

HOW HARD would it be for leotards to be made with adjustable straps (like bras) though????

You have my deepest sympathy – any time I see a prop being rolled/thrown in from the wings I hold my breath that it arrives successfully. Last competition featured a child stepping out from a wardrobe clothes rail hung with strips of blue fabric. I was pondering why anyone would step out of shower for a demi-character, but turned out it was a 'waterfall sprite'.

I suspect any fabulous pass rates among dancers are also because they tend to be motivated, hard-working, conscientious perfectionists? I passed my UK test first time aged 26 (determined to pass before having my first baby as my mother never drove), having done 3 months of intensive lessons (I won't call it a 'crash course' as that gives COMPLETELY the wrong idea!).