lillydog Posted November 30, 2013 Share Posted November 30, 2013 My DS has been on gr 2 for over a year and is showing a lot of potential. I asked his school if he could have another ballet class in the week and I suggested gr 3. They said no, that he wouldn't cope, which is fair enough, but then said he will take his gr 2 next xmas then skip gr 3 altogether and move straight onto gr 4. I am finding it difficult to understand the logic in this. He also studies tap, jazz and modern and is already gr3 tap and gr4 modern. He is 10 and would like to audition for vocational school next year (entry y7). My question is, does this sound okay or not. I am very tempted to move schools because I think missing out gr3 is a mistake. I can understand not taking the exam but to miss out the study seems...well, just plain wrong. Am very worried and this is my first post so hello everyone xx 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taxi4ballet Posted November 30, 2013 Share Posted November 30, 2013 Hi Lillydog and welcome to the forum, you've come to the right place! I was wondering whether your ds does any workshops or an associate programme. If he's really keen, then perhaps he might need more than one ballet class a week. Which syllabus is he studying? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lillydog Posted November 30, 2013 Author Share Posted November 30, 2013 Hi Taxi4ballet, thank you for the reply. He is studying ISTD and really loves it. He has really surprised me at how well he dances and at a recent EYB audition was one of the children picked for scholarship (didn't get one !!). I know that the best way to improve is to do as many classes as you can. I have had a look at gr 3 and can't see where he would struggle. I used to dance and there isn't anything I couldn't help him with. It seems once I mentioned going off to school at 11y, everything slowed down.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mart Posted November 30, 2013 Share Posted November 30, 2013 What they are saying to you is not logical ,young students need solid foundation to build upon,skipping a grade at that age does not make sense .Ask them what is their reasoning for not doing grade 3. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lillydog Posted November 30, 2013 Author Share Posted November 30, 2013 Apparently it is how their teacher does things, my DS like the achievement of passing each exam. If they don't want to push him into gr 3 now (which I am okay about) why would they push him into gr 4 ? And all I am after is another ballet class. It seems silly to ask to return to gr 1. Is gr 3 a huge step up from gr 2 ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mart Posted November 30, 2013 Share Posted November 30, 2013 Try and find out if there is an associate programme (RBS or Elmhurst )near you for extra classes for your son. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lillydog Posted November 30, 2013 Author Share Posted November 30, 2013 We are living in the sticks so not always practical to get to these places, I will have a look. Thanks for your help mart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
balletmum20 Posted November 30, 2013 Share Posted November 30, 2013 Does not sound normal to me, my dd is 8 does istd, she is doing grade 2 exam after Christmas, but has always done the grade and grade above, as her teacher feels she has potential, and wants to push her, our teacher always says its important to go up the grades as you add to the steps as you move up each grade x 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lillydog Posted November 30, 2013 Author Share Posted November 30, 2013 Thank you balletmum20, that is what I think too. But do I dare move school, that is the question. Have spoken to them at length and just get told same thing, this is the way we do things, but other children are allowed to do the 2 grades together...so it confuses the issue even more. When I queried this I was told that those children have private lessons to help them in class (even though the private lessons haven't been ballet, but they don't know I know that ;-) ). The school was set up to reduce the need for children to have to go away to board at 11 and I really wonder if they are trying to hinder rather than help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billyelliott Posted November 30, 2013 Share Posted November 30, 2013 It all sounds suspicious to me ! Don't be afraid to move schools - there is no harm in making enquiries at another school asking what they can offer and trying out a class , Also bear in mind that at the vocational school auditions they are looking for passion , potential and musicality , not so much exam grade levels or hours of training . Hope that helps 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellie Posted November 30, 2013 Share Posted November 30, 2013 My DS has been on gr 2 for over a year and is showing a lot of potential. I asked his school if he could have another ballet class in the week and I suggested gr 3. They said no, that he wouldn't cope, which is fair enough, but then said he will take his gr 2 next xmas then skip gr 3 altogether and move straight onto gr 4. I am finding it difficult to understand the logic in this. He also studies tap, jazz and modern and is already gr3 tap and gr4 modern. He is 10 and would like to audition for vocational school next year (entry y7). My question is, does this sound okay or not. I am very tempted to move schools because I think missing out gr3 is a mistake. I can understand not taking the exam but to miss out the study seems...well, just plain wrong. Am very worried and this is my first post so hello everyone xx Personally to me this (skipping a grade) doesn't make sense (although I am not familiar with ISTD syllabus). However if he does want to audition for vocational schools I wouldn't worry too much, as grades achieved at the time of audition are not taken into consideration. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lillydog Posted November 30, 2013 Author Share Posted November 30, 2013 Thanks guys for all your advice. Hopefully I will sleep better tonight. lol xx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anna C Posted November 30, 2013 Share Posted November 30, 2013 A slightly belated welcome from me too, lillydog. :-) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thecatsmother Posted November 30, 2013 Share Posted November 30, 2013 It sounds like you have talked it through with school but have you asked why? This is what we always does not really empower a parent to make a decision as to what is right for their child. If there are plenty of classes which are not syllabus based then this may not be a problem but if your child might want to try for a vocational school in year 7 to do ballet specifically then they may well benefit from more than one technique class. I would try asking why this is 'what we always do' as you are a paying customer and have to an explanation. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taxi4ballet Posted November 30, 2013 Share Posted November 30, 2013 The school was set up to reduce the need for children to have to go away to board at 11 and I really wonder if they are trying to hinder rather than help. Hmmm... It is a puzzle - is the school successful in getting older students accepted for vocational training? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LinMM Posted November 30, 2013 Share Posted November 30, 2013 (edited) I find it puzzling if not taking gd2 for another year! So that's 2 years on grade 2. If he has had a year already in grade 2 he should be ready in the next six months at the most. Also as he has had this year already he should be able to cope with the grade 3 class and then he will already have a good knowledge of the grade......by next christmas.....before in normal circumstances going into that grade as his main grade class. I cannot see why they would want him to miss a grade out entirely as he is only ten so doesn't need pushing in that way but maybe more to take the grade 2!! I have heard that some Dance schools will only let people take exams if there are enough people ready to take the exam at the same time. You don't think it's some kind of "numbers" issue do you? How many others in his class are hoping to take the exam and have they been told the same thing.....not for another year? Has he just missed out on a round of grade 2 exams or something? Do others at his school say in the 9-12 age group do more than one class a week? Edited November 30, 2013 by LinMM 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lillydog Posted November 30, 2013 Author Share Posted November 30, 2013 Hello, thank you for all your lovely replies, a problem shared really does help. Thank you for lovely welcome from spannerandpony. Balleteacher....they said they want to build a really firm foundation to make sure he gets a really high mark in his exam. Taxi4ballet.....they only opened a few years ago, and they also hope to offer full time courses for 16+ in the near future. I think a few students may have gone off to college, but the bulk of their training would have been with someone else. LinMM.....he took gr 1 after a few months with them and got a distinction. He has just taken exams for tap/modern/jazz.....just waiting for results. The classes are very small and they are not planning any exams until late next year. A couple of us Mums think it is too long to be on one grade. We were going to ask about bringing it forward, but after my last conversation I feel like it would be a no. I also have to add that we were invited to join the gr 3 class after summer hols, but they changed their mind once we had been to Summer school. The more keen DS gets the more they slow everything down....it does feel like a conspiracy. Am weighing up my options at the moment as he is feeling a little hurt and also like he isn't good enough. It is like he is being punished for having dreams yet they are making out that they are doing this all for him. Or perhaps I am just getting my knickers in a twist over nothing :-/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alison Posted November 30, 2013 Share Posted November 30, 2013 Lillydog, welcome to the forum. I've just fleshed out your posting title a bit in the hope of attracting some more attention. I was going to say that my piano teacher got me to skip alternate grades, thinking that too many exams wasn't good for me, but I think that's probably a bit different: all that was really happening was that what I was being asked to play was more difficult. Presumably you learn new steps and enchainements for each grade in ballet, do you? In that case, I think I might find it a little odd too, although since I don't actually do ballet exams I'm probably not best placed to judge. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurora Posted November 30, 2013 Share Posted November 30, 2013 Is it possible the current grade 3 class is well into the syllabus and if he joined now her would have missed all the early preparatory work? But perhaps when they say he would skip to grade 4 there would be a group all beginning the grade together and therefore that it would be broken down and more digestible without missing big chunks of the underpinning? Just a thought...! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thecatsmother Posted November 30, 2013 Share Posted November 30, 2013 This sounds a bit like an exam scheduling issue. Is it possible to start on the next grade whilst waiting to do Grade 2 or at least do some non syllabus work which has a sense of progression. Exams per se are not essential providing there is a sense of progression which fits the needs of the child. If this is not possible then perhaps augment with associate or other forms of Easter, summer courses, workshops etc. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legseleven Posted December 1, 2013 Share Posted December 1, 2013 I know of a school where all of the students, regardless of ability and passion, were kept in grade 2 or 3 (I can't remember which) for at least 18 months, usually 2 years. Parents were told that this was due to the 'big jump' from grade 1 or 2. It became clear however that the real reason was that grade 2 or 3 was the highest grade a particular teacher taught and she had decided to maximize her revenue. I am certainly not saying that anything like this is going on for your DS, lillydog, but it does sound very odd to have offered the grade 3 class and then to withdraw the offer and to suggest that grade 3 will be too difficult for him now but that he will eventually skip it entirely. I would have thought that grade 3 classes now would only benefit him, especially if the plan is for him to miss taking the exam and move straight to grade 4, as he won't then be missing out on vocabulary and technique contained within grade 3. DD has missed out taking the grade 2 exam in both ballet and piano as her teachers advised that she wouldn't gain any further benefit from taking the exam having learned and polished the grade 2 work and they didn't want to risk her becoming bored. It hasn't done her any harm or held her back. If you don't receive satisfactory answers from the teachers, it may well be time to look elsewhere. Don't get hung up on your DS having to be at a particular grade to stand a chance when auditioning for vocational schools, as they won't be interested in grades taken or tricks learned, just potential, musicality, physique and talent. However, risking your DS becoming frustrated and bored when he is so keen to do more and is being held back for no apparent reason seems ridiculous. I also second the idea of researching associate schemes (RBS, Elmhurst, Tring, Northern Ballet etc) to provide further training with other keen and talented students. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anna C Posted December 1, 2013 Share Posted December 1, 2013 To a certain extent I agree with having a firm foundation for the exam. However, two things strike me - one is that there should be a balance between building a firm foundation and keeping a child in the same grade for so long that they become bored and demotivated. Secondly, you can work on an exam for a couple of years and be on course for a distinction - only to become ill, get an examiner who is an extremely harsh marker, or even just have an off day and not get the mark predicted for you. I agree that 2-3 years certainly seems excessive for Grade 2. Sometimes teachers quite rightly want a child to build strength or concentrate on perfecting basic techniques before they will add in a higher grade class. I can understand that. This is where adding in a non-syllabus class at a similar level can be ideal, but not all schools have the luxury of being able to offer non-syllabus junior classes. However, if the aim is to build strength and concentrate on basic techniques for the benefit of your son, that is a different kettle of fish to keeping him in Grade 2 for years on the basis that not enough children are ready to take the exam sooner. My dd's teacher would run an exam session even if only one child was ready to enter. I think you will have to politely question the teacher in depth as to: Why Grade 3 was offered and then withdrawn - is there a physical reason for this, i.e. lack of strength, needs to perfect basic technique like turnout - and if so, can he please have some things to work on and/or exercises to do. If he isn't ready to add on Grade 3 yet, fine, but then why skip it entirely at a later date? Does the teacher not think that 2-3 years in Grade 2 might demotivate a student? If he cannot offer your son a non-syllabus class, can he suggest an associate scheme as an addition to Grade 2? Phew! Sorry for the essay. :-) 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thecatsmother Posted December 1, 2013 Share Posted December 1, 2013 I am not sure if it applies to ISTD but pretty sure it does. There are usually regional centres where you can enter candidates if you do not have sufficient candidates to hold exams at a school. Can I ask how many children roughly are in the school? That being said, for me the key thing would be that your child is doing work which shows a progression of learning which is age appropriate. The exams only provide one vehicle for this but non syllabus work can also do this. I am not familiar with the ISTD syllabus so cannot comment on whether this would be contained purely in the Grade 2 syllabus. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lillydog Posted December 1, 2013 Author Share Posted December 1, 2013 Wow, thank you for all the replies guys. I can't tell you how nice this has been as I was just so worried. Alison...thank you for the new title. Aurora....it is possible and I hadn't thought of that. I do now wonder if it has anything to do with next year being show year.....maybe they don't want a boy in that class because they planning something very girly ?? Legseleven...thank you, your post is exactly how I feel. I remember now that there was talk of him joining gr 3 and then skipping the gr 2 exam, but when I told him he asked me to tell them that he really wanted to take the gr 2 exam. I mentioned this in passing to them ( never thinking it would be a problem), then when I asked when he was joining gr 3 some time later the offer had been withdrawn....I wonder if this has anything to do with it? I had actually forgotten that. I'm glad exams aren't a consideration for vocational school, it takes the pressure off. I just didn't want him to be out of his depth at auditions. Spannerandpony....yes I think I have some more questions although I am just wondering about walking instead. Will think and research options ready for new year. Balleteacher......The school is very small and run a lot of classes which cover everything. Triple threat seems to be the 'in' word which is okay, but it is very difficult to get more than one class of anything a week. You have all given me lots to think about and although I am sure I will still worry until it is sorted, I feel better knowing that I am not the only one who finds it all strange. The many different reasons which have been put forward and my ideas of what might be going on have certainly opened my eyes. Thank you seems such a small thing to say but you have all been fantastic. Lillydog xx 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taxi4ballet Posted December 1, 2013 Share Posted December 1, 2013 (edited) I do now wonder if it has anything to do with next year being show year.....maybe they don't want a boy in that class because they planning something very girly ?? I'm glad exams aren't a consideration for vocational school, it takes the pressure off. I just didn't want him to be out of his depth at auditions. The school is very small and run a lot of classes which cover everything. Triple threat seems to be the 'in' word which is okay, but it is very difficult to get more than one class of anything a week. Hi, I've just taken snippets quoted from your last post... and my thoughts are: Many small schools do exams one year, and a show the next, which is fine if you are dancing for fun but not so great if you are really keen to progress. Other posters are right, vocational schools don't look at specific grades, but on the other hand - an audition isn't the best moment to be having to learn a new step for the first time!! Dance schools which offer all the dance styles do find it difficult to have more than one class in each grade, as there isn't room in their timetable. edited for spelling! Edited December 1, 2013 by taxi4ballet 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad house Posted December 1, 2013 Share Posted December 1, 2013 Hi lillydog, My dd also does istd syllabus and went through her grades up to grade 5 then she missed 6 and went straight onto intermediate . She worked on intermediate for 18 mths before taking it. She is now just doing advanced. So I guess some teachers do skip grades . 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Circe Posted December 1, 2013 Share Posted December 1, 2013 I think switching over from graded syllabus to vocational syllabus is not unusual. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lillydog Posted December 2, 2013 Author Share Posted December 2, 2013 hello, quick update as I am sooooo tired and need my bed, but needed to share. Have found new RAD dance teacher. Absolutely lovely and I have a very good feeling about this. Been teaching for many, many years. My DS likes her and has had a class with her and it all looked very beautiful. So after Christmas am taking his ballet training to her. Thank you everyone for all the help and advice. Now off for a good nights sleep. Lillydog xx 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thecatsmother Posted December 2, 2013 Share Posted December 2, 2013 So glad you made a decision that feels right for your DS as this is the most important thing. The new RAD syllabus is very nice and it will be interesting to see the next generation of dancers who come through with the new syllabus. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LinMM Posted December 3, 2013 Share Posted December 3, 2013 Pleased you have found a good outcome for your son. I'm sure he would have bored silly for another whole year in grade 2! Onwards and upwards as they say (hopefully!) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lillydog Posted December 4, 2013 Author Share Posted December 4, 2013 Hello guys, I can't tell you how pleased I am, it feels like I have won the lotto. I had forgotten how beautiful ballet can look. He is also so much happier and has been busy practicing the new steps that he learnt in just one lesson. I know I have made the right choice and it is thanks to the good advice I found here, so everyone pat yourselves on the back. Job well done !! Lillydog xx 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anna C Posted December 5, 2013 Share Posted December 5, 2013 Great news lillydog, I'm so glad you have found a good solution. Do stay around the forum, and also let us know how your ds gets on. :-) 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lisa O`Brien Posted December 5, 2013 Share Posted December 5, 2013 Great news,Lillydog. Terrific that you didn`t hang around in moving on either. Welcome to the Forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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