Company auditions help

[Peanut68]

9 hours ago, Emeralds said:

British dance teachers and critics for years have not been very keen on competitions, compared to those in North America, South America, Asia and Eastern Europe, believing that it encourages the student or dancer to focus narrowly on preparing and practising only 3 or 4 solos or pas de deux to perfection rather than learning entire ballets.

Reading this got me to thinking how things have changed in recent years…..Witt emphasis no longer on open auditions but rather pre-selection by application to usually include video footage. This is another area causing some difficulties as done want very specific studio work, some classical repertoire solos, some a selection of stuff, some a more  ‘candidates own choice’ showreel of a variety if footage. So I guess a comp is that platform for a) getting those solos to good performance standard plus getting that much needed footage as must seem to be filmed - and probs better version as it’s an actual performance on a well lit stage with good music reproduction in costume too - so probs better than something cobbled together in a studio. Also gives added value I guess to the costs of preparing & entering a comp as it gives a longer term benefit offering greater potential ROI than merely being offered something at the comp itself! Really wish I’d had my eyes opened to this stuff years ago now… honestly I see less need these days for that vocational UK school year 7-14 (ages 11-20) training & think better routes to a rounded regular education mixed with high level coaching supplemented with competitions - more mirroring high level tennis coaching fur instance? I do worry though about the lack of team playing (so decrease of experience & suitable attitude to being part of day a corps de ballet)

I do often wonder for instance how happily that violinist who can play at concert soloist standard &  has awards & prizes acknowledging this then settles to working through the ranks starting back row of the third violins….knowing very very few will progress from there to soloist…. Are we creating too many could be stars & not enough for the supporting ‘chorus line’? 

[Peanut68]

9 hours ago, Emeralds said:

Many nations don't even have ballet companies or events which they can perform in, so competitions are a welcoms chance to dance in front of a real paying audience.

This is another thing I find intriguing…. It seems - culturally - there are few professional paid Ballet contract opportunities in certain regions (Asia I believe one) yet there seems such a huge appetite for many if these countries to produce immensely talented & highly trained dancers - these tending to seek necessarily older years training & employment overseas. And then these same countries often rely on touring companies & galas full of international stars to satisfy their audience desire to see great ballet. Well why don’t these countries see this huge opportunity to create their own companies & schools  that can a) provide the training & opportunities to their own talents & b) provide employment rather than lose these dancers overseas & c) grow wonderful ballet for their massive potential audience plus become part of the global ballet world! This is a very basic reflection on this….

By example, I have mentioned elsewhere on forum hue surely it was absurd that a major Japanese  corporation sighed a  very high monetary value sponsorship (?) deal with the RBS to support Japanese students to attend…..surely their nation would far better benefit from investing that money to create Japan’s own Imperial Ballet Company & associated school/academy.

And wow - wouldn’t the world benefit from the establishment of another top level ballet nation? And that’s just one country…. 

[Emeralds]

31 minutes ago, Peanut68 said:

Reading this got me to thinking how things have changed in recent years…..Witt emphasis no longer on open auditions but rather pre-selection by application to usually include video footage. This is another area causing some difficulties as done want very specific studio work, some classical repertoire solos, some a selection of stuff, some a more  ‘candidates own choice’ showreel of a variety if footage. So I guess a comp is that platform for a) getting those solos to good performance standard plus getting that much needed footage as must seem to be filmed - and probs better version as it’s an actual performance on a well lit stage with good music reproduction in costume too - so probs better than something cobbled together in a studio. Also gives added value I guess to the costs of preparing & entering a comp as it gives a longer term benefit offering greater potential ROI than merely being offered something at the comp itself! Really wish I’d had my eyes opened to this stuff years ago now… honestly I see less need these days for that vocational UK school year 7-14 (ages 11-20) training & think better routes to a rounded regular education mixed with high level coaching supplemented with competitions - more mirroring high level tennis coaching fur instance? I do worry though about the lack of team playing (so decrease of experience & suitable attitude to being part of day a corps de ballet)

I do often wonder for instance how happily that violinist who can play at concert soloist standard &  has awards & prizes acknowledging this then settles to working through the ranks starting back row of the third violins….knowing very very few will progress from there to soloist…. Are we creating too many could be stars & not enough for the supporting ‘chorus line’? 

There used to be a practice in the past that many ballet companies- especially in Europe- would hire certain dancers who were not built with the physique of a Naghdi or Bussell or Hayward (or Ball/Bracewell/Clarke among the men) to have any chance of becoming a principal dancer and at best would stay a first artist for years and perhaps become a character artist if they developed good acting skills. This also meant more opportunities for solo and lead roles  the types who had the technique and physique to become stars. This worked if the company recruited only or mainly from their affiliated school, but it also meant a lot of typecasting often happened. (This is referencing quotes from former RB members who are now choreographers and coaches, but one could see similar hiring and casting patterns in other large old European companies.)

 

In the meantime, newer companies, eg NYCB, Joffrey Ballet, Maurice Bejart's company (with various names) had a different approach. With repertoire that was not dominated by the story ballet classics with one female and one male lead &/- a strong second female lead (Myrtha/Lilac Fairy/Gamzatti etc) plus character roles backed by lots of villagers/townsfolk/courtiers and a "white act" female corps of wilis/swans/ dryads/ snowflakes/ animated garden flowers/ bayaderes  etc, they simply hired whoever they got who was the best at the audition, with vacancies dictated only by whether they could afford to pay for more dancers. Nowadays the traditional large ballet companies tend to hire like the NYCB and Bejart companies as the candidates who apply are getting better and better, and more and more look like they can be principals/stars. 

 

Video auditioning in the past never used to be a thing as the technology wasn't good enough. Now you can make a video on your smartphone or iPad that looks as sharp as a TV broadcast of the Royal Ballet or Bolshoi, and all ballet schools and ballet companies don't want to miss out on recruiting the next Marianela Nunez or Darcey Bussell or Tiler Peck, so they all agree to have a look at videos- and certainly post pandemic, video is now used more often. Just like in many other professions, the ones who do best in the ballet world are those who keep up with changing practices/trends and use modern technology carefully and wisely.

 

In the classical music world, it doesn't actually work like the dance world. You're not obliged to be signed only to one company. Many excellent orchestra⁰ musicians are signed to two ensembles or sometimes three (the third might be chamber music or film/gaming music ensembles). Aspiring soloists are freelance and don't need to wait to be promoted within a company like ballet dancers do. Many talented soloists eg Nicola Benedetti, Sheku Kanneh-Mason, Nigel Kennedy, etc go straight from their teacher/ teachers/ conservatoire to competitions to starring gigs plus recording company contract. You don't usually start off as soloist with BBC Symphony Orchestra at the Proms of course - you usually start off at small, obscure gigs in small towns or someone's amateur fundraiser or festivals in villages, and a lot of touring abroad to towns and cities with no home orchestra or stars who are glad to get visiting artists.

 

Orchestral musicians don't have to be tied to one orchestra (you don't need to do company class like dancers do) and there are usually very few rehearsals that you must participate in unlike ballet companies and there are no props, stage directions or acting instructions to practise. Some musicians do both solo careers as well as play in an orchestra: a number of the Berlin Philharmonic musicians are successful soloists in their own right, and the Concertgebouw, LSO and Vienna Philharmonic, for example, have musicians who do both too. And very occasionally some soloists have spent 1 or 2 seasons as professional orchestra members to get more performing experience as well as to make professional contacts and don't return after that once they start to acquire more bookings.

 

They have a much more flexible system than dance companies (although there are far more trained violinists in the world than trained ballet dancers) . And your physique/looks don't matter when you're a musician as long as you can play the music and blend in (sound wise) with the ensemble. 

 

The ballet world is changing much faster in the last 20 years than it did, say, between 1960 and 1980. But rather than seeing it as something negative or something that is stacked against your offspring, think of it as opportunities to level the playing field. In the past if you came from a country with a national ballet school eg Denmark, France, Italy, Russia, Britain, Austria you had advantages over citizens of nations where ballet training was not standardised. If you had a Russian birth certificate or last name  you were often deemed "must be better" than a Brit or an American before you'd danced a step.

 

Nowadays with the Internet and videos, if you're good it doesn't matter where you're from or whom you trained with- you can show what you are capable of by video and get flights to a competition to perform, eg solos from Sleeping Beauty and Don Quixote. You don't need to rely on a company to accept you and wait for a chance to do a solo part after 3-5 years of slogging in the back row. Mind you, if you win, it's not a guarantee that jobs automatically fall into your lap or that your dream company offers you a position (especially if the dream company is full or not from your home country). Often you still have to get in touch with the company you are interested in. Not everyone is a Carlos Acosta, Yuan Yuan Tan or Alina Cojocaru (who all got offered company positions after competition wins). 

 

PS I don't feel that one really needs to have high level coaching for a competition. Often they're not won by dancing Don Q pas de deux with triple pirouettes and doublefouettes but by an outstanding performance of a simple solo eg Giselle's Act 1 dance), Siegfried's Act 3 solo.

[Emeralds]

2 hours ago, Peanut68 said:

This is another thing I find intriguing…. It seems - culturally - there are few professional paid Ballet contract opportunities in certain regions (Asia I believe one) yet there seems such a huge appetite for many if these countries to produce immensely talented & highly trained dancers - these tending to seek necessarily older years training & employment overseas. And then these same countries often rely on touring companies & galas full of international stars to satisfy their audience desire to see great ballet. Well why don’t these countries see this huge opportunity to create their own companies & schools  that can a) provide the training & opportunities to their own talents & b) provide employment rather than lose these dancers overseas & c) grow wonderful ballet for their massive potential audience plus become part of the global ballet world! This is a very basic reflection on this….

By example, I have mentioned elsewhere on forum hue surely it was absurd that a major Japanese  corporation sighed a  very high monetary value sponsorship (?) deal with the RBS to support Japanese students to attend…..surely their nation would far better benefit from investing that money to create Japan’s own Imperial Ballet Company & associated school/academy.

And wow - wouldn’t the world benefit from the establishment of another top level ballet nation? And that’s just one country…. 

That's economics. Ballet companies are expensive things to maintain so many nations don't set up one. They need either a huge amount of donor money or taxpayer subsidy. There may be audiences willing to buy tickets but there might be a lack of will to set up a company to employ the many  talented students coming out of private teaching studios. Japan historically had two reputable companies - Asami Maki and Tokyo. They never paid much from what I was told- more semi- professional than fully professional. Hence the students' preference for applying in London, New York, various German cities etc etc. 

[Emeralds]

2 hours ago, Peanut68 said:

Reading this got me to thinking how things have changed in recent years…..Witt emphasis no longer on open auditions but rather pre-selection by application to usually include video footage. This is another area causing some difficulties as done want very specific studio work, some classical repertoire solos, some a selection of stuff, some a more  ‘candidates own choice’ showreel of a variety if footage. So I guess a comp is that platform for a) getting those solos to good performance standard plus getting that much needed footage as must seem to be filmed - and probs better version as it’s an actual performance on a well lit stage with good music reproduction in costume too - so probs better than something cobbled together in a studio. 

Btw, Peanut68, TV, YouTube and the Internet now enable students to learn a lot of variations and repertoire work by watching video footage online and the steps/vocabulary should be covered in normal vocational training lessons. Do read the rules very carefully- some competitions want a teacher's testimonial/signature to say they approve of the student entering and very occasionally some vocational schools have rules that forbid students entering competitions without their permission.

 

One does have to be careful of any teachers or schools who put on a stranglehold on a student's aspirations and motivation (that is a potential red flag) but hopefully most schools and teachers will be supportive of students wanting to better themselves even if they can't offer extra regular coaching to everyone competing. One real life example of this was when Evgenia Obraztsova wanted to enter IBC when she was still a dancer at the Mariinsky Ballet (I can't remember who the director was then)- she wasn't forbidden to enter but was cold shouldered and still made to do a heavy corps de ballet and rehearsal schedule, and solo roles. She did have a supportive coach (all the Mariinsky dancers have coaches to work on technique) who helped her prepare- she ended up winning the senior category gold medal, but she reported that this attitude was unusual: most directors generally want to see their dancers do well and will be supportive. She later joined the Bolshoi Ballet when they offered a principal contract (a promotion). 

 

PS this isn't meant to derail the thread into one pushing competitions, but I do hope all students/applicants will consider the option of competitions in addition to auditions as an alternative way of improving one's performance skills as well as getting a job, as auditions alone are a very difficult way to guarantee employment - so many applicants, so few vacancies. And so many British graduates are very good indeed- don't get put off easily!

[Roberta]

3 hours ago, Peanut68 said:

By example, I have mentioned elsewhere on forum hue surely it was absurd that a major Japanese  corporation sighed a  very high monetary value sponsorship (?) deal with the RBS to support Japanese students to attend…..surely their nation would far better benefit from investing that money to create Japan’s own Imperial Ballet Company & associated school/academy.

And wow - wouldn’t the world benefit from the establishment of another top level ballet nation? And that’s just one country…. 

 

Hello @Peanut68. Japan does have ballet companies. It has a national company in the National Ballet of Japan, which was founded in 1997. David Bintley was Artistic Director  for a while I think around 2010 -11?  Miyako Yoshida (former principal dancer with the Royal Ballet) is currently the AD, and she certainly seems to be ambitious for her company. 

 

The company dances the big classics as well as new works. Raymonda is one of the ballets scheduled for 2024.  NBJ participated in World Ballet Day 2023 with an excellent company class, displaying a very high standard of dancing indeed (sadly no longer available to watch online).  There was also an excerpt from its new ballet The Tragedy of Macbeth,  choreographed by Will Tuckett, which was on a double bill with Fredericks Ashton's The Dream. The company has over 70 dancers. It has a school. The company tours abroad widely. 

 

https://www.nntt.jac.go.jp/english/news/ballet/NBJ-WorldBalletDay2023.html

 

https://www.nntt.jac.go.jp/english/about/nnt-ballet-school.html

 

There are, of course, other companies in Japan. 

 

With regard to Japanese students receiving further funded training at the Royal Ballet School, this can surely only be a good thing for both ballet in general, and the students themselves?  

 

The Kinoshita Group is sponsoring far more than training for Japanese students and perhaps we should be grateful that it is supporting the school so generously, as a big corporate sponsor.  Without such sponsors I suspect the school would be struggling financially to do all it does. 

 

https://www.royalballetschool.org.uk/2023/02/17/the-royal-ballet-school-partnership-with-kinoshita-group/

 

 

Hope this helps. 

 

[Roberta]

There has been discussion in this post topic of the YAGP and job fairs. The YAGP has run job fairs since 2015. The YAGP is now running its job fairs as standalone events, after the success of doing this in 2023, when over 70 job offers were made by partner companies.  The 2024 fairs will take place in Stuttgart and in Nashville USA in February 2024.

 

All the information is on the website via this link  https://yagp.org/yagp-2024-job-fair/

[Roberta]

44 minutes ago, Roberta said:

Raymonda is one of the ballets scheduled for 2024

 

Apologies, it is La Bayadere.  https://www.nntt.jac.go.jp/english/news/ballet-dance/2324-season-ballet-dance.html

Edited January 10 by Roberta

[Pas de Quatre]

However I have always understood that only the Principal dancers get paid in the Japanese ballet companies. Has this now changed so everyone getd payment?

[Jan McNulty]

Hello @Roberta and welcome to the Forum!

[Birdy]

The US has a huge variety of ballet training choices. Most of the bigger, company-affiliated schools don’t allow their students to participate in YAGP (but often recruit from there). There are also a lot of schools that go the opposite direction and focus heavily on competitions. I don’t know that the competition-heavy schools actually get more students into companies or if we just hear about those students more because of their media presence. I certainly don’t think competitions are necessary, but are just another possible path. 
 

As for video prescreening for company auditions, a lot of companies use the International Audition Pre-Selection Guidelines. (https://iapguidelines.squarespace.com/the-guidelines). Nothing fancy; no costumes, stage performances or expensive filming.

I used to wonder if maybe I was making a mistake by not having my kid go the competition route, but she and many of her friends are doing great without it. I think the best piece of advice we heard was to try to find the place that was the best fit for her. One school may not show any interest while another jumps at the chance to have your kid. Same with companies. It’s all subjective so if you find a company-affiliated school or junior company that really likes you, you have a better chance of success than going to a potentially more prestigious place that barely acknowledges you.

 

[Roberta]

20 minutes ago, Pas de Quatre said:

However I have always understood that only the Principal dancers get paid in the Japanese ballet companies. Has this now changed so everyone getd payment?

 

There is a long and troubled history regarding the renumeration of dancers in Japan, with payment by performance and other problems. This is being addressed at the NBJ at least, which will mean talented dancers have some assurance they can make a career in Japan.  The AD addresses this here  https://www.nntt.jac.go.jp/english/news/ballet-dance/2324-season-ballet-dance.html

 

 

[Peanut68]

Finding things that are being discussed here really interesting - thanks all!

[Kerfuffle]

@Birdy I’ve always wondered how most American dancers (not at affiliated schools) get into companies - there seem so many more  options in USA in comparison to here. I met a lot in Italy at a YAGP summer intensive this summer with my daughter and it seemed like a non stop whirlwind of competitions and then multiple intensives all summer (not necessarily scholarships). Exhausting! Do most of the ones at competitions do it strategically or for the fun/glory  of it? Some had enormous instagram followings and were ambassadors for a lot of the dance brands. They seem to post something every day ! The people I know at those types of schools tell me that only the best get a chance to do solos at competitions  but it seems as though they are still paying a lot of money to be there (I heard several hundred an hour to be coached!). I got the impression that going to train in Europe is very prestigious and can help getting work back in USA, is this true? 

Edited January 10 by Kerfuffle

[Birdy]

I know people who spend insane amounts of money on summer programs, but we avoided the competition crowd. Summer breaks here are absurdly long (my DD’s old school ended late May and didn’t restart until early September) so students definitely try to pack in the training. We spent a lot of money in tuition for a good ballet school, but the longest summer program my DD attended was 3 weeks, despite the pressure from teachers to do more. Other than that she just did drop-in classes here and there. I often think my DD was lucky that we didn’t have unlimited funds to throw at ballet because she didn’t get injured or burned out. So many kids end up quitting by 18. Honestly I don’t see the point in all of that insanity. Maybe people feel like it helps them quantify the unknown—like winning means you’re on the right track. Maybe some people just like to compete in the same way people compete at sports. And I’m sure some of it is for the glory of it. It can’t possibly be for the scholarships because the money spent to get to that level far outweighs the benefit of one year of tuition. Most of these kids end up at a school they could have gotten into by simply auditioning in the normal way and the rest decide to go to university. 

 

Getting into the second company/junior company/studio company is the best way to transition to a main company in the US (and likely in Europe). One of the big companies here is known for recruiting heavily from YAGP and Prix, usually to the detriment of their own students, in my opinion. My DD decided to train in Europe because that is where she wants to work. I don’t know that training in Europe is a benefit in getting work in the US or if it is just a bragging right.

[Peanut68]

Honest enlightening post Birdy 

 - thank you 

[Peanut68]

Tgif

2 hours ago, Birdy said:

US or if it is just a bragging right.

Is this perhaps the most telling phrase??? 

[Emeralds]

Yikes, @Birdy- the schools that don't allow their students to compete in YAGP but will recruit students from YAGP....that sounds hypocritical of them and would be a bit of a red flag! 

 

There are of course a lot of successful dancers who have never done any competitions and have still had a glittering career or are still having that career. Some are offered jobs with the main ballet company even before graduating and not only saved themselves a term's fees (a whole year in Laurretta Summerscales' case although she did do a competition while she was a professional) but didn't even have to send off a cv/resume or attend auditions!

 

Some students/dancers aren't very comfortable with the idea of competitions and the feeling that everything danced will be scored and scrutinised (although they somehow seem to manage dance exams well enough) and the pressure of wanting to win, or the competitive backstage atmosphere and rivalries in some (not all) competitions. That said, some companies also do have a very competitive atmosphere so in many ways the competitions really only reflect what happens in real life. At the end of the day, there is no hard rule about competitions- do them if you feel they will benefit you (and it's always worth trying one once- when well rehearsed of course), but don't do them just because others say they're  doing them. 

[Emeralds]

21 hours ago, Roberta said:

 

There is a long and troubled history regarding the renumeration of dancers in Japan, with payment by performance and other problems. This is being addressed at the NBJ at least, which will mean talented dancers have some assurance they can make a career in Japan.  The AD addresses this here  https://www.nntt.jac.go.jp/english/news/ballet-dance/2324-season-ballet-dance.html

 

 

I do remember Miyako Yoshida herself being surprised to be told that she was going to be paid for joining BRB (!then called Sadler's Wells Royal Ballet) as an artist. She was one of the first dancers from Japan to join a British ballet company as a full time member (not the first from Asia), after winning a scholarship at the Prix de Lausanne competition to further her (already excellent) training at the Royal Ballet Upper School.  (There is a YouTube video that someone uploaded of her excellent PdL  competition performance.) 

 

Of course, Miyako stayed in the corps de ballet for what seemed like only 5 minutes (exaggerating but you know what I mean!) as she was so brilliant that it was simply criminal not to cast her in soloist and lead roles instead.  Anyway, digression over.  😀 Miyako would have been well aware of the very different experiences that fellow dancers and former dance schoolmates had in Japan compared to her own at SWRB/BRB. Good to see that she is leading the way in making improvements for dancers. 

[Birdy]

4 hours ago, Emeralds said:

the schools that don't allow their students to compete in YAGP but will recruit students from YAGP....that sounds hypocritical of them and would be a bit of a red flag! 

That describes nearly every company-affiliated school. RBS, ENB, John Cranko, DNB, ABT, Houston Ballet, Joffrey Ballet…the list goes on. However, they mainly recruit for summer programs and possibly full-time training. The company I am thinking of (in the US, but which I won’t name) stocks most of their second company with competition winners.

Edited January 11 by Birdy

[Balletdoodah]

7 hours ago, Birdy said:

That describes nearly every company-affiliated school. RBS, ENB, John Cranko, DNB, ABT, Houston Ballet, Joffrey Ballet…the list goes on. However, they mainly recruit for summer programs and possibly full-time training. The company I am thinking of (in the US, but which I won’t name) stocks most of their second company with competition winners.

 

Not sure how there is any hypocrisy in this:  getting noticed by a company-affiliated school is a goal for many young dancers. Competitions are an additional opportunity outside of direct audition. 

Students at those schools already have 'the prize' 😉 

Edited January 12 by Balletdoodah
too early in the morning grammar fix.

[Kerfuffle]

I agree not much point in doing YAGP once you’re at one of those above mentioned schools! It’s more of a problem if the company then recruits only from competitions, ignoring those that they have been training in their schools. Part of upper school training is learning to dance with other peoples as one body (corps). 

[Emeralds]

11 hours ago, Balletdoodah said:

 

Not sure how there is any hypocrisy in this:  getting noticed by a company-affiliated school is a goal for many young dancers. Competitions are an additional opportunity outside of direct audition. 

Students at those schools already have 'the prize' 😉 

Was referring to taking in competition participants as new students but refusing to let their own students participate in the competitions. I can't speak for every school, but RBS seem to have allowed William Bracewell to "escape" briefly to the US and enter YAGP, where he won the biggest prize. And they didn't kick him out! 

 

I think British schools prefer the Adeline Genee (now called Fonteyn Competition) and Prix de Lausanne, but I'm not keen on a competition that eliminates competitors even before dancing a step on stage.

 

There are plenty of famous stars who have spectacular technique on stage and dance with great partnering skills and artistry, but look 'sloppy' in class, especially the day after a full length ballet. A class definitely doesn't equate to how one performs on stage. 

[Neverdancedjustamum]

18 minutes ago, Emeralds said:

Was referring to taking in competition participants as new students but refusing to let their own students participate in the competitions. I can't speak for every school, but RBS seem to have allowed William Bracewell to "escape" briefly to the US and enter YAGP, where he won the biggest prize. And they didn't kick him out! 

 

I think British schools prefer the Adeline Genee (now called Fonteyn Competition) and Prix de Lausanne, but I'm not keen on a competition that eliminates competitors even before dancing a step on stage.

 

There are plenty of famous stars who have spectacular technique on stage and dance with great partnering skills and artistry, but look 'sloppy' in class, especially the day after a full length ballet. A class definitely doesn't equate to how one performs on stage. 

I might have missed/not spotted them but there have been extremely few British or British-trained participants in recent years at the Prix De Lausanne. Off the top of my head, I can only think of two female British participants in the last 3 or so years, and maybe one British national but trained elsewhere.  I am not sure if this is due to very few British applicants or whether it’s very small numbers getting through to pre-selection.  Having seen PdL performances and masterclasses, I think the panel do a great job of picking finalists because on the whole, I find the selected candidates strong on stage and in class. YAGP in its initial stages are more of a mixed bag and I think this is because anyone can apply and participate. Just my personal opinion. This year there seems to have been a spike in the number of British young dancers in the European YAGP competitions.

[Pas de Quatre]

The Fonteyn is an RAD competition and you have to pass their Vocational exam with a particular mark to enter. So whilst the RAD is one of the largest individual Exam awarding bodies, the vast majority of ballet students world wide don't do exams.

[Emeralds]

12 minutes ago, Neverdancedjustamum said:

I might have missed/not spotted them but there have been extremely few British or British-trained participants in recent years at the Prix De Lausanne. Off the top of my head, I can only think of two female British participants in the last 3 or so years, and maybe one British national but trained elsewhere.  I am not sure if this is due to very few British applicants or whether it’s very small numbers getting through to pre-selection.  Having seen PdL performances and masterclasses, I think the panel do a great job of picking finalists because on the whole, I find the selected candidates strong on stage and in class. YAGP in its initial stages are more of a mixed bag and I think this is because anyone can apply and participate. Just my personal opinion. This year there seems to have been a spike in the number of British young dancers in the European YAGP competitions.

I noticed that at PDL too- fewer British entrants. That said, I agree PDL is better nowadays....I can't remember if it was Federico Bonelli or another principal who said that in his day, you could get cut from PDL after just the barre, after all the effort to prepare, pay for costumes etc!

 

But personally I think a competition that just assesses your stage performance is better (shorter than an entire class but admittedly has to be done one by one rather than a group). For comparison, singing and music competitions don't eliminate participants based on how they do scales and warm ups and every participant gets to perform. (Even the elimination/qualifying rounds that we don't see actually involve real  performances.) 

[Pas de Quatre]

These days PdL participants have a whole week of classes and coaching for solos before the selection on Friday afternoon for the Final on the Saturday. There are only a few UK students who apply and even fewer selected. The PdL website gives a full breakdown of the numbers on their website.

[Kerfuffle]

The problem with YAGP is that you only have to perform one solo, the same one in the final as the early round. This means you can choose one that only shows your strengths and get away with hiding your weaknesses. Opera equivalent competitions  expect singers to perform across several genres, different languages etc. They are also mature performers who are ready for their repertoire. Class lays your technique open for all to see. Ultimately a dancer has to be able to blend in a corps so it’s important that they will fit in if that is the purpose of entering a competition. 
I think there are entries from British schools (but perhaps not British nationality) in Prix de Lausanne this year. At graduate level there are fewer British dancers in top schools. @Neverdancedjustamum
It’s great to see more British dancers in YAGP, some of which did well. Perhaps this will translate to more younger ones in Prix de Lausanne. 

[Birdy]

I have no issue with the big company-affiliated schools recruiting students from YAGP. I do question the training at schools that fill their second companies with dancers from competitions or dancers they recruited for the school who then spend less than a year at the school before being taken into the second company. It shows either a lack of quality training at the upper levels or else a disconnect between the person who auditions students for the upper level of the school and the person who chooses second company members. This is especially disconcerting at schools that offer no company audition support, which describes many schools in the U.S.  It also describes many post-graduate paid trainee programs here. 

[alison]

Yes, disconnects are hardly unknown in such situations.

[Roberta]

4 hours ago, Kerfuffle said:

The problem with YAGP is that you only have to perform one solo, the same one in the final as the early round. This means you can choose one that only shows your strengths and get away with hiding your weaknesses. Opera equivalent competitions  expect singers to perform across several genres, different languages etc. They are also mature performers who are ready for their repertoire. Class lays your technique open for all to see.

 

Don't YAGP contestants also have to participate in earlier rounds, semi finals and those include masterclasses and class? YAGP broadcasts (all on YouTube) untold hours from all over the world of class as well as the final stage competition dances. I don't think all a contestant has to do is turn up and perform on stage to be judged solely on that performance? 

 

https://www.youtube.com/live/8k9_VFG6krM?si=ufKhjj9jdeUE7bKK

 

[Kerfuffle]

12 minutes ago, Roberta said:

 

Don't YAGP contestants also have to participate in earlier rounds, semi finals and those include masterclasses and class? YAGP broadcasts (all on YouTube) untold hours from all over the world of class as well as the final stage competition dances. I don't think all a contestant has to do is turn up and perform on stage to be judged solely on that performance? 

 

https://www.youtube.com/live/8k9_VFG6krM?si=ufKhjj9jdeUE7bKK

 

There are masterclasses at every event that all the participants attend but they aren’t scored and of those  the only class that really matters is the scholarship one. You can make it to the final, be placed and still not get a scholarship, they are independent of one another. 

[Sophoife]

10 hours ago, Birdy said:

...shows...a disconnect between the person who auditions students for the upper level of the school and the person who chooses second company members.

 

Not an issue at American Ballet Theatre at the moment I wouldn't think. Sascha Radetsky is AD of the studio company and Stella Abrera is AD of the JKO School.

 

 

Edited January 13 by Sophoife
Removed irrelevant phrase from quote