What do people do when dance classes clash with school?

[Meglorien]

I've searched the forum because I saw someone commenting they had managed special permission from school to have a class during school session, but now I can't find it anywhere. Anybody has experience of having to take their children to ballet class during term time on a regular basis? Is it even possible? Thanks!

[Dancing unicorn]

When dd was a RBS JA student she had classes on a Friday during the school day, yrs 4 & 5 were afternoon and yr6 was morning! Whilst School said she could go, I don’t think they were entirely happy with her going! But they couldn’t really say no! 

Edited July 21, 2018 by Dancing unicorn

[DancingShoes]

My dd was on Northern Ballet's CAT scheme, there were quite a few who had to miss the last lesson of the day a few times a week in order to get there on time.

[Meglorien]

4 minutes ago, Dancing unicorn said:

When dd was a RBS JA student she had classes on a Friday during the school day, yrs 4 & 5 were afternoon and yr6 was morning! Whilst School said she could go, I don’t think they were entirely happy with her going! But they couldn’t really say no! 

 

Why couldn't they say no? Can you do it legally? How did you approach the question with the school? I have to talk to them, but I'd like to do it in the best way possible.

[Meglorien]

3 minutes ago, DancingShoes said:

My dd was on Northern Ballet's CAT scheme, there were quite a few who had to miss the last lesson of the day a few times a week in order to get there on time.

 

How did you talk to the school?

[Balletmum4ever]

My DD was given permission to attend a private ballet lesson once a week in her last term of primary school in preparation for attending vocational school the following September. We timed it to coincide with PE/Games lessons so that she was not missing important academic lessons. School were very happy to authorise it. I think it was recorded as either ‘educated off site’ or ‘sporting activity’. 

[Dancing unicorn]

It’s classed as educational, so theoretically  they can’t say no. We took the offer letter in to the headmistress. They said that as long as she was there for registration (morning and afternoon) that she would still get her attendance mark but at the end of yr6 her attendance was down. Despite the fact that she was never off I’ll!! 

[Meglorien]

1 minute ago, Dancing unicorn said:

It’s classed as educational, so theoretically  they can’t say no. We took the offer letter in to the headmistress. They said that as long as she was there for registration (morning and afternoon) that she would still get her attendance mark but at the end of yr6 her attendance was down. Despite the fact that she was never off I’ll!! 

 

Hmm, being there for both ends might prove difficult, but thanks, this helps. I'll ask for the letter before going to school.

[Dancing unicorn]

Is she starting JA’s in Manchester in September? 

[Meglorien]

5 minutes ago, Dancing unicorn said:

Is she starting JA’s in Manchester in September? 

 

No, she's starting private lessons with Mary Goodhew as a preparation for vocational school auditions. But the classes are in London, so she'll have to miss some or all of one day of school. I'm exploring what is the best way to go about it. This is in addition to syllabus classes and associates, which happen at the weekend. The classes are private, but with a small group of people, which makes them cost about a fifth, so we can't rearrange them and schedule them to another time.

[Dancing unicorn]

Ah I see, good luck 🍀

[Nicola H]

I think an Awful lot of  this will depend on the Glandular Fortitude of the  Headteacher  and  possibly the attitude of the Governors  ...   see also  attitudes of the  made titled  vastly  expensive  so called Leaders of a Chain Academy is involved ... 

there is the educated offsite  coding available ,  it;s just whether the school is  willing to use it ... 

[ParentTaxi]

I think it will depend on the school's current 'average' attendance, Ofsted rating (and nearness of next inspection), and your child's general academic ability / likely SATs grade if in Y6.

 

Political and economic pressures on a school are HUGE, especially in these cash-strapped times. That means that if a school falls down the 'league tables' or drops an Ofsted grade (either through drop in performance or through low attendance, which has a high profile in inspections) it can result in the end of the head's career, and the school plunging into debt if some parents withdraw their children or don't send them because 'it's now Good not Outstanding' or, worse, 'It Requires Improvement!!!!'

 

So the freedom of manouevre on granting absence will depend - if it is an outstanding school with attendance on average in the high 90%s, and your child is securely performing at the 'right' SATs grade, then the head has much more freedom than if it is a good or RI school expecting Ofsted any moment, with attendance struggling in the low 90s and where your child MIGHT just get over the next critical SATs borderline with continuous hard work between September and May.

 

That doesn't make either head unsympathetic to your request - just that the factors in play often run counter to individual sympathies.

[ParentTaxi]

If you are considering whether they can use Code B (Educated Off Site) - a 'present' code not an 'absent' one, which obcviously the school woruld prefer - look at https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/564599/school_attendance.pdf

 

Note that there are quite stringent conditions for code B, including that the child must be supervised by someone authorised by the school and that measures have been taken to safeguard pupils (the school remains in charge of your child's safeguarding for a session for which code B is recorded - that cannot be delegated to you or to the dance teacher)

 

[Meglorien]

18 minutes ago, ParentTaxi said:

I think it will depend on the school's current 'average' attendance, Ofsted rating (and nearness of next inspection), and your child's general academic ability / likely SATs grade if in Y6.

 

Political and economic pressures on a school are HUGE, especially in these cash-strapped times. That means that if a school falls down the 'league tables' or drops an Ofsted grade (either through drop in performance or through low attendance, which has a high profile in inspections) it can result in the end of the head's career, and the school plunging into debt if some parents withdraw their children or don't send them because 'it's now Good not Outstanding' or, worse, 'It Requires Improvement!!!!'

 

So the freedom of manouevre on granting absence will depend - if it is an outstanding school with attendance on average in the high 90%s, and your child is securely performing at the 'right' SATs grade, then the head has much more freedom than if it is a good or RI school expecting Ofsted any moment, with attendance struggling in the low 90s and where your child MIGHT just get over the next critical SATs borderline with continuous hard work between September and May.

 

That doesn't make either head unsympathetic to your request - just that the factors in play often run counter to individual sympathies.

 

Thanks for this explanation. Like you say, it won't make the head sympathetic/inclined, but here we are in a strong position on all accounts, as dd has a good record of attendance (and so does the school in general), school is outstanding and dd has exceeded expectations in all her years at school. All things that will help. Also, Mary Goodhew is one of the best private teachers out there, they can even google her and find her, which I think will also strengthen our position. I plan to approach the matter in the best way possible too, which is why I wanted to discuss it on the forum first. It's a huge opportunity for dd.

[Meglorien]

14 minutes ago, ParentTaxi said:

If you are considering whether they can use Code B (Educated Off Site) - a 'present' code not an 'absent' one, which obcviously the school woruld prefer - look at https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/564599/school_attendance.pdf

 

Note that there are quite stringent conditions for code B, including that the child must be supervised by someone authorised by the school and that measures have been taken to safeguard pupils (the school remains in charge of your child's safeguarding for a session for which code B is recorded - that cannot be delegated to you or to the dance teacher)

 

Thanks for the link. I was wondering what the legal standing was and didn't know how to find it.

[Vonrothbart]

My GDD like a lot of other DC, would almost certainly have had to miss lessons on many occasions, but in our case she was always given "time out" and was often told how proud the school were on her achievements. If she did happen to miss anything she considered important, she would do a little extra, usually on the train.I'm not too sure what the situation would have been to miss a full day every week though, as that's quite a lot.

Edited July 22, 2018 by Vonrothbart
extra text.

[DancingWellies]

We were very lucky, DD was at a grammar school who couldn't have been more supportive. They seemed to support excellence of any type, a friend of DD was at a similar level ice skating and was also encouraged. The grammar school were fine with auditions etc.

 

Contrast that with a local primary who refused permission for a pupil to miss school for an international martial arts competition, she'd attended the previous year so why did she need to go again? All depends on how small minded your school is.

[allnewtome]

20 hours ago, Meglorien said:

I've searched the forum because I saw someone commenting they had managed special permission from school to have a class during school session, but now I can't find it anywhere. Anybody has experience of having to take their children to ballet class during term time on a regular basis? Is it even possible? Thanks!

Hi, yes I have recently spoken to my DD school and they have given her permission to have one pm a week off school for lessons. 

[Meglorien]

3 hours ago, allnewtome said:

Hi, yes I have recently spoken to my DD school and they have given her permission to have one pm a week off school for lessons. 

 

Did you just bring in a letter from the teacher?

[Meglorien]

9 hours ago, Vonrothbart said:

My GDD like a lot of other DC, would almost certainly have had to miss lessons on many occasions, but in our case she was always given "time out" and was often told how proud the school were on her achievements. If she did happen to miss anything she considered important, she would do a little extra, usually on the train.I'm not too sure what the situation would have been to miss a full day every week though, as that's quite a lot.

 

Yes, this is my fear as well, that they might think it is quite a lot.

[ParentTaxi]

A whole day per week would bring your DD's maximum attendance down to 80% of she was present every other day (for comparison we consider over 95% as good attendance, less than 90% as 'of concern') and this is genuinely low.

 

If the school is 1 form entry (1 class of 30 per year, or perhaps less), that is low enough to have a significant overall effect on attendance, but of course if it is 3 form entry it will be much less of an issue for the overall figure.

 

Is there any way that she could come in for at least 1 register on that day, and maybe for English / maths as the first 2 lessons (which they usually are) e.g. to come in for 9 am and leave at, say 11 or whatever the timetable says? That would a) immediately jump her up to 90% attendace and b) mean that the 'critical' lessons each day weren't missed.

 

It would also depend on whether this was for the whole year or a block of 5 or 6 lessons - the latter would have a large short term effect on her attendance but would average out over the year to be OK. The first really might be an issue, even for the most reasonable and accommodating head!

[ParentTaxi]

(So for example when DD did panto, over the short term her attendance was pretty dreadful, but it was only in November / December / January and it ended up fine over the whole year - and she did work between performances. Missing a similar number of days over a whole year would have been a real issue.)

 

Also worth thinking about which day of the week it is, and what she will 'always miss' - if I were your DD's class teacher, i would try to move Games or indoor PE onto that day, and avoid e.g. Science being timetabled for that afternoon, as it is an assessed subject, but again that will be something you should be sensitive to in your discussions - if possible, have the discussion before timetables for next year are set.

[Pixiewoo]

9 hours ago, ParentTaxi said:

(So for example when DD did panto, over the short term her attendance was pretty dreadful, but it was only in November / December / January and it ended up fine over the whole year - and she did work between performances. Missing a similar number of days over a whole year would have been a real issue.)

 

Also worth thinking about which day of the week it is, and what she will 'always miss' - if I were your DD's class teacher, i would try to move Games or indoor PE onto that day, and avoid e.g. Science being timetabled for that afternoon, as it is an assessed subject, but again that will be something you should be sensitive to in your discussions - if possible, have the discussion before timetables for next year are set.

 

And as a volunteer in a classroom, it isn't just the child who misses some lessons each week, it is the whole class who can suffer, IF, the teacher then has to spend lesson time going over something the class has already been taught, or working one on one with a student who has missed a class, which means the whole class is missing the teachers support. ( there is a child who misses a fair amount of school in the class i volunteer with, due to family issues, and I usually spend a a chunk of my volunteering time, helping this child get 'up to speed' once the teacher has 'taught' the lesson ( again for this child ). 

[Dancing unicorn]

Yeh I should point out that dd didn’t miss every Friday but every one or two weeks as it alternated with Sunday’s! 

Dd’s School weren’t very supportive of her doing JA’s so don’t know what would of happened if it had been every Friday! 

[richieN]

I can only speak about my experience. Occasionally I have had to take DD out of school to attend specialist classes, showcases and workshops. At these times, the high school has been highly supportive.

 

I think a lot of it has to do with how you engage with the teachers. When DD started at high school, my wife and I took time to contact the head teacher - firstly by email, then in person - and explained our position. We made it completely clear that we would give plenty of notice for taking DD out of school and DD was to pro-actively seek missing lessons work.

 

What also helps is that you can clearly articulate the educational benefits - get to know the dance school, the dance governing body (RAD, BBO etc.) and the qualifications that are being achieved. Stress the importance of a balanced education and the transferrable skills, deportment, personal impact and confidence that classical dance provides.

 

Also explain the prestige that dance success could provide for the school. If DD was to win competition medals, make sure that the school knows about them, so they can share in the success. Even if you have nothing particular to share, keep them updated on how their classes are going. You may want to consider associate classes with prestigious schools like the Royal Ballet School, Elmhurst etc. A little kudos goes a long way.

Finally, be thankful. Make sure you give the all the teachers due credit for flexibly supporting your child in their wish to shape their own future. It is a lot of work, but worth it in the end.

[ParentTaxi]

I agree with richieN, that the way in which you communicate this at the start and as it goes on will really help.

 

It will also help if you understand, and make it really clear that you understand, where the school is coming from - in terms of attendance stats, SATs grades, and the resources required to catch your child up for every lesson she misses - and either mitigate each as far as possible, or where that is not possible, make it really clear that e.g. you understand she will miss some work, and that this may well impact on her attainment, but you accept this, rather than expecting the school to sort it out. Remember that 'asking for the work that your child would be doing in class' isn't always feasible (because without the teaching, the resources don't make sense) and finding suitable alternative work every week to e.g. do while travelling can be very labour intensive.

 

It may seem obvious, but it can be really irritating if a parent who has taken their child on a holiday in term time, or on a long series of sporting events, then finds fault with or questions the school / teacher because their child's grades aren't quite as good as the parent expects them to be....