r3dh3d Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 DD (11) is slightly hypermobile. Not the full blown ehlers danlos sort, but enough that it's going to be a problem, I think. The prevailing view at her dance school seems to be that if she does enough dance, the muscles will probably strengthen enough to support the joints and if not, we can cross that bridge when we come to it. And meantime, let's make use of that flexibility.There's quite a bit of stretching in class, and DD finds it quite painful. Now I'd be the first to admit that she's a total wuss, but still it seems to hurt a lot more than stretching used to hurt me at her age (by her age I'd been down to splits and oversplits 3 ways for years) and in particular, it doesn't seem to matter what the degree of stretch is. I tell her that it is better to get a mild stretch and just hold it for a while and do it every day than to push yourself too hard. But any amount of stretch is painful and she backs out of it very quickly. It doesn't help that she's overpronating and a bit knock-kneed, and I think some of the stretches they do are aggravating that. DH works for an overseas company which is in the process of *finally* setting up a private health care scheme, and as soon as they do I am planning to take her both to a podiatrist (to correct the overpronation) and to a sports physio, if I can find one that specialises in this sort of thing. But it has been delayed a few times, so while they claim it will be signed up by mid-October, I'm not sure how long it will really be. Does anyone have any experience/advice in the meantime? Hypermobility in dancers can't be uncommon, so I was hoping there would be relevant advice I could google - but it seems to work on the assumption that stretching is easy and you need to discourage overstretching. Her problem seems to be that the joints are hypermobile but the muscles are tight, so stretching is difficult/painful and all the force is going through the joint. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Picturesinthefirelight Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 I'm at work so will reply later but. Might get my dd to reply to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anna C Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 Yes, hypermobile dancers do tend to get disproportionately tight in some muscles, despite the laxity in the joints. They can also suffer daily aches and pains. For the hypermobile dancer it is vital that they learn to tell the difference between their "normal" pains and an injury. Otherwise they will either stop at the first sign of pain, or go too far the other way and miss an injury. Areas that get unusually tight can be glutes, IT Bands, Quads and hamstrings, which can lead to knee pains. Overpronation can also lead to knee pains and achilles pains. As you know, overpronation can be corrected with orthotics in street shoes, but a young dancer can also discipline herself gradually so that she doesn't overpronate in class. I think an appointment with a dance physio would be very beneficial so that you, the physio, and your dd can try to work out what sort of pain your dd is getting when she's stretching and therefore whether the stretches need modifying. Also worth noting is that many hypermobile dancers have low propriorception so often can't feel a stretch. It goes without saying that overstretching is bad for such dancers, and splits etc. before the body is properly warmed up are a bad idea. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twoballerinas Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 My daughter is hyper mobile to and whilst she can do all three splits she suffers from tight hamstrings which makes the splits painful sometimes. It had its advantages as I'm sure you can see the great flexibility but tight hamstrings is very common with hypermobility. Try stretching out the hamstrings, there are some great exercises on you tube! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoglett Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 Drdance is very knowledgeable in this area I believe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taxi4ballet Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 (edited) DD (11) is slightly hypermobile. Not the full blown ehlers danlos sort, but enough that it's going to be a problem, I think. The prevailing view at her dance school seems to be that if she does enough dance, the muscles will probably strengthen enough to support the joints and if not, we can cross that bridge when we come to it. And meantime, let's make use of that flexibility. There's quite a bit of stretching in class, and DD finds it quite painful. Now I'd be the first to admit that she's a total wuss, but still it seems to hurt a lot more than stretching used to hurt me at her age (by her age I'd been down to splits and oversplits 3 ways for years) and in particular, it doesn't seem to matter what the degree of stretch is. I tell her that it is better to get a mild stretch and just hold it for a while and do it every day than to push yourself too hard. But any amount of stretch is painful and she backs out of it very quickly. It doesn't help that she's overpronating and a bit knock-kneed, and I think some of the stretches they do are aggravating that. DH works for an overseas company which is in the process of *finally* setting up a private health care scheme, and as soon as they do I am planning to take her both to a podiatrist (to correct the overpronation) and to a sports physio, if I can find one that specialises in this sort of thing. But it has been delayed a few times, so while they claim it will be signed up by mid-October, I'm not sure how long it will really be. Does anyone have any experience/advice in the meantime? Hypermobility in dancers can't be uncommon, so I was hoping there would be relevant advice I could google - but it seems to work on the assumption that stretching is easy and you need to discourage overstretching. Her problem seems to be that the joints are hypermobile but the muscles are tight, so stretching is difficult/painful and all the force is going through the joint. My advice (as the parent of a similarly hypermobile dc) is to stop stretching, she doesn't need to stretch - it could destabilise the joints and cause no end of problems in the future. She needs to work on strengthening the muscles that support the joints instead, and that way she will be able to control the hypermobility she has and use it effectively. The dance school's advice to make the most of her flexibility now and worry about strength later is the wrong way round IMO. Edited October 5, 2016 by taxi4ballet 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boys_can_dance Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 I have the same problem with my son(10). I took him to a friend, who is a senior physio, and he said the hamstrings are so tight because they are overly mobile in the lower back and use the hamstring to stabilise the pelvis, which makes sense- but makes it hard when encouraging stretches. He hates them, and it hurts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drdance Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 Drdance is very knowledgeable in this area I believe. Hoglett thank you for this however I don't claim to be an expert, especially in hypermobility. All I can do is advise on the anatomy and physiology of joints and how dance training may impact this. I have a question regarding the OP - is the pain when stretching in the middle or along the muscle, or is it in the joint? If the muscles are tight then have you tried mobilising them using a tennis ball/lacrosse ball/massage ball or a foam roller? Rolling muscles before stretching was a bit of a lightbulb moment for some of the attendees of our summer course and made a huge difference to them. However if the pain is in the joints, then I would be more concerned, and seek advice from a physio or doctor. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Светлана Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 Lisa Howell has some great articles about hyper mobility, flexibility, releasing flexibility and strength 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r3dh3d Posted October 7, 2016 Author Share Posted October 7, 2016 I have a question regarding the OP - is the pain when stretching in the middle or along the muscle, or is it in the joint? If the muscles are tight then have you tried mobilising them using a tennis ball/lacrosse ball/massage ball or a foam roller? Rolling muscles before stretching was a bit of a lightbulb moment for some of the attendees of our summer course and made a huge difference to them. However if the pain is in the joints, then I would be more concerned, and seek advice from a physio or doctor. It seems to be the muscles rather than the joint, though it's a good point and something I'll watch for. Are there any good links to *how* to use ball/foam roller for this sort of stretch? I said to DD "have you tried using a tennis ball?" and she, quite reasonably, looked at me as if I had lost the plot. Mind you, I'm getting used to her looking at me like that... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pas de Quatre Posted October 7, 2016 Share Posted October 7, 2016 The simplest way for dancers with hypermobile knees to stretch their hamstrings is to do a simple sitting pike, i.e. sit on the floor with legs straight in front in parallel, but make sure the knees and heels stay on the floor. Then stretch forwards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drdance Posted October 7, 2016 Share Posted October 7, 2016 A quick google search on 'using a foam roller' will give you some options, I believe. Just make sure you only roll/massage areas that are made of muscle and NOT the IT band down the outside of the leg! (as it's not made of muscle and is a non-stretchy structure, despite lots of people misunderstanding that it should be massaged/released). 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r3dh3d Posted October 7, 2016 Author Share Posted October 7, 2016 A quick google search on 'using a foam roller' will give you some options, I believe. Just make sure you only roll/massage areas that are made of muscle and NOT the IT band down the outside of the leg! (as it's not made of muscle and is a non-stretchy structure, despite lots of people misunderstanding that it should be massaged/released). Thanks! So that's presumably true of all tendons (IT band must be tendon?) and so she needs to stick to the proper "muscle" areas, not the points of attachment at top and bottom. Though a quick google for diagrams looks as if that's pretty short for the hip adductors at the groin end. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drdance Posted October 7, 2016 Share Posted October 7, 2016 Thanks! So that's presumably true of all tendons (IT band must be tendon?) and so she needs to stick to the proper "muscle" areas, not the points of attachment at top and bottom. Though a quick google for diagrams looks as if that's pretty short for the hip adductors at the groin end. Yes there's no point in rolling any tendons, and similarly the attachment points although yes most muscle attachment points are quite small except for at the ankle, and shoulder, where they get more tendinous. Basically stick to the middle of muscles and go from there! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r3dh3d Posted October 14, 2016 Author Share Posted October 14, 2016 Just coming back to this to say a HUGE thankyou for the roller tip - it's been brilliant and last night she suggested throwing all her teddies away and going to bed with the roller instead. Other injuries creeping in, though, and am trying to organise referrals atm, which is a whole other thread. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taxi4ballet Posted October 14, 2016 Share Posted October 14, 2016 How many hours a week dance does she do, and which dance styles? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r3dh3d Posted October 14, 2016 Author Share Posted October 14, 2016 How many hours a week dance does she do, and which dance styles? Just adding it up. At the moment, it's 4.5h ballet, 1.5h tap, 1.5h modern. So 7.5 in total? It's more than "usual" at the moment because she is trying to catch up so is running 2 grades at a time in each, plus inter foundation. After Christmas she should go down to 5 or 6. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drdance Posted October 14, 2016 Share Posted October 14, 2016 Awww I'm glad the roller is helping. Just be careful not to beat up those muscles too much! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
annaliesey Posted October 14, 2016 Share Posted October 14, 2016 Another vote for the roller apparently from my DD who is hypermobile. Her dance teacher introduced her to one at the studio and she has one on her xmas list! In the meantime I caught her making (?) one out of one of my big church candles with a cushion taped around it .... blooming kids! I sat there in the front room watching TV thinking something is missing!! (Just thought I'd share this with you all haha) I have a friend who's DD is always complaining about splits and just doesn't seem to get down far in any of the splits. Admittedly I don't think she is doing stretches regularly but I wonder if she's possibly affected by tight muscles 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now